Too much oil - diesel

Clareman

A friend of mine just rang me, he's delighted to be sat in an empty office while he's getting something to done with his BMW at a maindealers, he mentioned that the dealers told him that his car has excessive oil because of too many short journeys he had been making recently, the car was serviced about 1,000km ago and they are saying that it'll be 280 to drain the oil, reprogram the car to allow for shorter journeys and refill the oil, that sounds like pulling the piss to me but I said I'd ask.

How would a car add oil to itself just because of about 1,000km of short journeys and what would be the minimum journey for a diesel? Oh yeah, would there be any harm in not draining the excess oil?

cruizer101

I can't see how short journeys would lead to excessive oil.
Excessive water in the oil maybe as you can get condensation in the engine which isn't driven off by the engine getting hot enough, although I thought the solution to that was take it for a good run.
Maybe would be worth changing the oil and trying to take for some more decent runs.
But an oil change should be a lot less that 280

Clareman

I can't figure out how more oil could be added when there's no oil being added, it has to be from another source and can't be oil so it's either diesel or water which can't be good.

colm_mcm

It’ll be diesel mixing with the oil.

The reprogramming the car bit sounds suspect.

colm_mcm

Some general info here

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=16891

Clareman

Every day is a school day, I can't say I know much about cars but I never knew that diesel can going into the oil, I always thought they were completely separate systems.

bazz26

Diesel is mixing with the oil in the sump causing the oil level to go above max rather than having excessive oil. It could be DPF related and the short journeys could well be the contributor if the DPF is not completing it's regen.

tcawley29

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’ll be diesel mixing with the oil.

The reprogramming the car bit sounds suspect.

Just a guess on my part but maybe there was a miscommunication and by reprogramming they mean a forced regen

Clareman

Probably more suitable for a different thread but what would be the minium journey or number of short journeys or whatever for a diesel? I think his car is a 2 litre 5 series.

Clareman

tcawley29 wrote: »

Just a guess on my part but maybe there was a miscommunication and by reprogramming they mean a forced regen

Possibly could be, this is third hand information and 2 of the people involved know nothing about cars, hence they drive BMWs

ongarite

Has your friend checked the oil level with dipstick themselves?
Issue could be as simple as faulty oil level sensor, pretty common issue.

Clareman

ongarite wrote: »

Has your friend checked the oil level with dipstick themselves?
Issue could be as simple as faulty oil level sensor, pretty common issue.

I can say with almost 100% certainity that he has not, I would almost be as confident that he has never opened the bonnet of the car

MAJJ

I was assuming this was a mazda with a major flaw. Something has to be very wrong here.

punisher5112

If the car isn't getting up to the correct operating temperature and a regen is required then this most definitely won't be good for the car.

The diesel mixes with the oil and the car tends to go at a slightly higher revs when trying to regen.

Can he bring it out for some longer spins on a motorway even if it's going in circles as such.....one exit and back etc.

sumo12

Failed DPF regens most likely, diesel seeping down past rings into the oil if it is a system that uses post-injection to heat the DPF up. Once the oil level is high and the light is in, the ECU will prevent any further regen attempts until level is corrected

maestroamado

I am guessing the oil was over filled when serviced.
There is a gaget that will pull the oil out through the dip-stick.
I suggest that your friend borrows/buys one of these and remove a litre or so.
Then top up with same oil to exact mark on stick and monitor for a few weeks.
Personally i have the engine warm when topping as oil filters down better.

bazz26

I think it was stated that diesel has mixed with the oil in the sump that has raised the level rather than an overfill.

maestroamado

bazz26 wrote: »

I think it was stated that diesel has mixed with the oil in the sump that has raised the level rather than an overfill.

The very fact that it is being serviced in a mail dealer suggests to me that its unlikely as this cannot be old car.
I have seen what you say happen but never on a car that someone was getting serviced at main BMW dealer.
I think if the diesel getting to sump on newer car it cost considerably more than €280 to sort...

BorneTobyWilde

Diesel mixing with oil to the point it's filling the dipstick beyond max is not good. Should never happen, not to the point it's noticeable.
Engine oil goes black for a reason, there is of course contamination with the combustion process and trace elements of fuel, but to this extent, that's not cool.
They never said it was that though, it's just a theory of a poster.

colm_mcm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Diesel mixing with oil to the point it's filling the dipstick beyond max is not good. Should never happen, not to the point it's noticeable.
Engine oil goes black for a reason, there is of course contamination with the combustion process and trace elements of fuel, but to this extent, that's not cool.
They never said it was that though, it's just a theory of a poster.

It does happen though.

kermitpwee

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Diesel mixing with oil to the point it's filling the dipstick beyond max is not good. Should never happen, not to the point it's noticeable.
Engine oil goes black for a reason, there is of course contamination with the combustion process and trace elements of fuel, but to this extent, that's not cool.
They never said it was that though, it's just a theory of a poster.

It's diesel, there is no other option. They don't overfill in main dealers, the oil put in is precise not a guess and top up job

Widdensushi

colm_mcm wrote: »

It does happen though.

It does happen, probably happening alot more with the lockdown, I think it is what happened to me, high oil light went 1000km before service was due last time,so serviced a bit early, the fact that the car in the op has only done 1000km since service might indicate that it was overfilled, or else they have a bigger problem.

maestroamado

bazz26 wrote: »

I think it was stated that diesel has mixed with the oil in the sump that has raised the level rather than an overfill.

Yes it was stated but the OP said the BMW main dealer just said excessive oil, i am sure the dealer would know in an instant if oil/diesel mixed.
I also expect there be loads of flashing lights as i am thinlking this not old car.

Could it be the plugs/points???

Truckermal

maestroamado wrote: »

Yes it was stated but the OP said the BMW main dealer just said excessive oil, i am sure the dealer would know in an instant if oil/diesel mixed.
I also expect there be loads of flashing lights as i am thinlking this not old car.

Could it be the plugs/points???

Plugs and point's on a 520D?

bazz26

It's definitely in trouble if it has them.

kermitpwee

Truckermal wrote: »

Plugs and point's on a 520D?

This place is gone to the dogs, I don't know why people comment when they haven't a clue. I know nothing about farming so I stay away from that forum.
1000km is easily enough if all short journeys to cause the diesel to mix with the oil.
I see it regularly on my buddies 2018 focus diesel. He has had to get it serviced twice after less than 2000km since the last service.
Actually if its not the plugs and points would it be the Carburettor?!!!!!!!!

mickdw

I dont know it id agree about main dealers refilling to exact level. In my experience, they over fill to a safe level 9 times out of 10 possibly to help with the stupidly long intervals

maestroamado

bazz26 wrote: »

It's definitely in trouble if it has them.

I used say that to the young guys when picking the diesel to give them a laugh as they thought i not knoo...

route66

This exact issue happened on a friends 2017 (current shape) BMW 520D.

Most people don't realise the downsides of running a diesel - no matter how new or premium; in fact new diesels are much more fragile than old ones. Short runs causes them lots of problems.

If short runs are what he uses the car for, then he should replace it with an Electric Vehicle or something Petrol or Hybrid powered

shanec1928

ongarite wrote: »

Has your friend checked the oil level with dipstick themselves?
Issue could be as simple as faulty oil level sensor, pretty common issue.

Possibly no dipstick. Had a g30 520d on loan that was checked through idrive

colm_mcm

route66 wrote: »

This exact issue happened on a friends 2017 (current shape) BMW 520D.

Most people don't realise the downsides of running a diesel - no matter how new or premium; in fact new diesels are much more fragile than old ones. Short runs causes them lots of problems.

If short runs are what he uses the car for, then he should replace it with an Electric Vehicle or something Petrol or Hybrid powered

A lot of people who would usually be doing big mileage are now finding themselves working from home. You couldn’t have foreseen that.

0lddog

Clareman wrote: »

.... he mentioned that the dealers told him that his car has excessive oil because of too many short journeys he had been making recently....

I believe Honda have managed to get some of their diesel units to do this too.


Thats progress

Dirty Nails

Clareman wrote: »

A friend of mine just rang me, he's delighted to be sat in an empty office while he's getting something to done with his BMW at a maindealers, he mentioned that the dealers told him that his car has excessive oil because of too many short journeys he had been making recently, the car was serviced about 1,000km ago and they are saying that it'll be 280 to drain the oil, reprogram the car to allow for shorter journeys and refill the oil, that sounds like pulling the piss to me but I said I'd ask.

How would a car add oil to itself just because of about 1,000km of short journeys and what would be the minimum journey for a diesel? Oh yeah, would there be any harm in not draining the excess oil?

You wouldn't be draining excess oil though,it'd diesel contaminated oil. There wouldn't be much lubrication in it.
Something gives me to remember a software upgrade for that problem.
I know Ford recalled some for oil dilution software upgrade.

Clareman

I meant to reply earlier, my friend questioned the dealer on this and rang BMW customer care, the problem is being looked after as a good will gesture.

maestroamado

Clareman wrote: »

I meant to reply earlier, my friend questioned the dealer on this and rang BMW customer care, the problem is being looked after as a good will gesture.

How old is the car?
Was it serviced in the same garage last time?

Clareman

maestroamado wrote: »

How old is the car?
Was it serviced in the same garage last time?

Its 4 years old I think, just out of warranty but he has a service pack on it for 5 years

maestroamado

Clareman wrote: »

Its 4 years old I think, just out of warranty but he has a service pack on it for 5 years

I would BMW people would not like this kinda press.
Please let us know result...

Clareman

maestroamado wrote: »

I would BMW people would not like this kinda press.
Please let us know result...

The result is they are sorting it for free, I'll ask him to get their offical recommended way of driving as well

FR85

High oil levels comes through failed DPF regeneration. Basically the DPF is a filter in the exhaust that collects soot and stops it being expelled, this is why you dont see modern diesels puffing out the black stuff anymore. It's also why tail pipes aren't sooty or black.
Every 400-500 miles the system will try and clear itself by over fuelling and burning off this soot. For this to happen the car needs to see certain requirements such as normal operating temps, continuous engine rpm above say 2k and with some manufacturers maybe a fuel tank level of above half a tank. If this happens on a motorway normally you will never know, there are no lights on the dash to let you know this is happening which for me is a major fail. If its half way through its proceedings and you turn off the car, say pulling in off a motorway to fill up or for a coffee then the process will be haulted, the excess deisel sits on top of the pistons and in turn seeps past the rings and ends up in the sump. This is how the level is rising. With a modern deisel if you are just doing the school or milk and paper run then the conditions needed for a regen are not met the filter doesn't clear, it backs up and this is when you will get a warning light. In extreme cases while pottering about you may notice the engine high idling and you may hear the cooling fans kicking in, this is the car doing it's best to regen and the fans kick in to 1 add a load and 2 cool things off.....a DPF pretty much cooks itself, extremely high temps.

I have not heard of a "shorter drive update" to combat this but that's not to say the boffins in Munich haven't launched one, they could well be all over it since the VW emissions saga.

With a deisel its recommended to bring them out on a motorway and give em the beans for say 20-30 mins in again say 5th gear and above 2.5k rpm, that normally sets the scene for the science to kick in and self maintain.

Your mate, I would suggest a full oil change to get rid of the deisel/oil mix as this is now contaminated and no good for lubrication and a few fun filled blasts every other week on the motorway. Again with the 5k limit and travel restrictions this is difficult.

A mate with a Peugeot 307 recently had to get an inlet manifold, EGR valve and DPF done as he was commuting from Blanch to Bray everyday and was getting a good daily motorway run, then he was instructed to work from home and the car basically couldn't hack the weekly couple of miles to the shop and back. It was basically constipated is how the mechanic put it!

They need exercise.

BorneTobyWilde

I have no idea why people buy new diesels, should be banned already.

bazz26

I'd say the dealer re-configuring software for "shorter drives" is possibly they are adjusting the DPF regeneration cycle parameters to kick in more frequently or shorten the duration of the DPF regeneration cycle itself. That would be my guess.

kermitpwee

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I have no idea why people buy new diesels, should be banned already.

Long commutes they are ideal

bazz26

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I have no idea why people buy new diesels, should be banned already.

Yawn... The motoring vegans have arrived.

Did it every occur that the owner might have used the car properly before Covid.

FR85

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I have no idea why people buy new diesels, should be banned already.

I wouldn't say banned. People need to do their research. We also live in a different world, there are no more high mileage travelling salesmen. The OPs mate like the rest of us, his situation may have changed. Car may have been bulletproof up until the pandemic.

I dont blame the customer, I blame the gob****es who sell them. When you go to buy a car you go in with key points you would like fulfilled, leather seats, boot space, bluetooth, buttons on a steering wheel ect and if they only have a deisel that meets these requirements then obviously that's what they are going to push. They are not going to ask you if you drive 50 miles a year of 50,000 miles a year. If they do get wind that you tootle around at 20mph everywhere they are not going to say: I'm not selling you that because it will be a worthless peice of scrap in 6 months.
People see them as economical with a high mpg return but they dont know they are now built with the same fragile components as a kitten.

CoBo55

Clareman wrote: »

Possibly could be, this is third hand information and 2 of the people involved know nothing about cars, hence they drive BMWs

They won't be long learning.. could be worse they could have a 2.2 Mazda 6.

Clareman

Personally, I've a 55km commute to the office every day, 45km of that is motorway driving, in addition to this I used to be in Dublin at least once a week, a short week for me would have had 550km on the car, a normal week 1,000km but it wouldn't be unusual to do more, an electric car wouldnt suit and I tried petrol for years but my old 1.8l petrol Avensis uses to get about 700km to a tank, my 2l diesel can touch 1,300l on a tank (eco mode, cruise control, couple of runs to Dublin), its a no brainer for me to have a diesel.

Since Covid has kicked in my mileage has plummeted, in fact I'd say that I probably don't need a car anymore but my friends issue with the oil has frightened the **** out of me to be honest so I'll be bringing her out for a spin at the weekend, down to Shannon and up to Gort I think

CoBo55

Clareman wrote: »

Personally, I've a 55km commute to the office every day, 45km of that is motorway driving, in addition to this I used to be in Dublin at least once a week, a short week for me would have had 550km on the car, a normal week 1,000km but it wouldn't be unusual to do more, an electric car wouldnt suit and I tried petrol for years but my old 1.8l petrol Avensis uses to get about 700km to a tank, my 2l diesel can touch 1,300l on a tank (eco mode, cruise control, couple of runs to Dublin), its a no brainer for me to have a diesel.

Since Covid has kicked in my mileage has plummeted, in fact I'd say that I probably don't need a car anymore but my friends issue with the oil has frightened the **** out of me to be honest so I'll be bringing her out for a spin at the weekend, down to Shannon and up to Gort I think

Some are more susceptible to diesel in the oil than others, what car are you driving?

Clareman

I've a 4 series BMW

CoBo55

Clareman wrote: »

I've a 4 series BMW

Does it have Adblue?

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

I think it was stated that diesel has mixed with the oil in the sump that has raised the level rather than an overfill.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

..... it's just a theory of a poster.

Yes, someone said that

bazz26 wrote: »

Diesel is mixing with the oil in the sump causing the oil level to go above max rather than having excessive oil. It could be DPF related and the short journeys could well be the contributor if the DPF is not completing it's regen.

Clareman

CoBo55 wrote: »

Does it have Adblue?

Nope, I've managed to avoid that stuff, i dont think I could cope with it to be honest