Starting a new pc, please help

J_V_C

Hey fellas,
My trusty pc (built in '14: big thank u to Bloodbath) finally gave up at Xmas (due to excessive dust and poor upkeep) and I've finally decided to build a new one.

After but two days research my head is fried, so I've decided to start with something reasonably solid, the motherboard and seek advice from the vets here on how to proceed.

I'd like to start with this mb: Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming II (AM4) and build on from that as money is in short supply (max budget for now of 800 euros).

I was thinking about adding a RyzenTM 5 3600XT to this and move on from there.

I've got a 550 Golden Flower PSU, an ATX case, network card and a few evo ssds.

I'll be using the machine for 4k video editing, light gaming (Company of Heroes 2) and streaming.

What do you think of that mb and cpu combo?
I'll be buying from amazon.de and would like to pull the trigger soon.

Any opinions, feedback, criticism or advice on anything mentioned above would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks for your time, J.

K.O.Kiki

Your main problem right now is GPUs are not available, so pre-builts are your best option.

Get onto Dell & ask for a discount on a G5 desktop (Core i5 or Core i7), and also ask if they can change the RAM to dual-channel (2 sticks instead of 1) or buy that yourself.

J_V_C

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Your main problem right now is GPUs are not available, so pre-builts are your best option.

Get onto Dell & ask for a discount on a G5 desktop (Core i5 or Core i7), and also ask if they can change the RAM to dual-channel (2 sticks instead of 1) or buy that yourself.

Hello sir,
thank you for the reply.
I was thoroughly convinced of the efficacy of this course of action. I even followed Homelander's (I think it was him) advice and fixated on a Dell G5 yesterday for 850 euros. Unfortunately, my credit card is stuck in a dual mobile number paradox, so I couldn't complete the purchase - I'm hoping this amazon approach will prove successful.

Frankly I love Dell, I'm tapping on a Dell Inspiron 9400, which I purchased in '07 and have upgraded, repaired or replaced every component inside its clunky shell. Probably not healthy but I tend to get clingy with tech that serves me true. 'Sides it's been a life-saver these last months.

In regards to the scarcity of gpus at the moment, I have a clackity old Sapphire R9 270X Dual-X OC (2GB) here I could use as a stop-gap until supply chains re-engage.

Sorry for gushing but I never miss your posts K.O.Kiki and am chuffed you replied

In regards to the abovementioned MB and CPU, what is your opinion of my choice?

J_V_C

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Your main problem right now is GPUs are not available, so pre-builts are your best option.

Get onto Dell & ask for a discount on a G5 desktop (Core i5 or Core i7), and also ask if they can change the RAM to dual-channel (2 sticks instead of 1) or buy that yourself.

Dell chat is not moving on any sort of discount
Am I doing this wrong, should I have sent more smiley face emojis?

minitrue

With the market as it is I wouldn't be surprised if discounts are off the table for now from Dell on systems like that except maybe you can get a little off upgrade prices (e.g. bumping 1*8GB to 2*8GB). It might also be the luck of the draw on the rep you get.

As a rule the 3600 is going to be better value than the 3600XT and right now it's €190 on amazon.de but I don't even see the XT there.

Do you know exactly what the power supply is? I'd lean towards replacing it when it is 6+ years old unless it was something exceptional.

At the price of that Asus B450 board you could get a B550 instead to get pci-e 4.0, I'm imaging a ssd upgrade will come down the road.

When you are talking about 4k editing, streaming and light gaming I think I'd be very tempted to blow the €800 on the core system by going for a 3900X with 32GB and leave a gpu upgrade for down the road and another budget! So something like:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (€434.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard (€119.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: PNY XLR8 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€153.72 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2 GB Dual-X Video Card (Purchased For €0.00)
Case: Nanoxia Deep Silence 1 ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For €0.00)
Power Supply: SeaSonic Core GC 650 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply (€79.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €786.62

J_V_C

minitrue wrote: »

With the market as it is I wouldn't be surprised if discounts are off the table for now from Dell on systems like that except maybe you can get a little off upgrade prices (e.g. bumping 1*8GB to 2*8GB). It might also be the luck of the draw on the rep you get.

As a rule the 3600 is going to be better value than the 3600XT and right now it's €190 on amazon.de but I don't even see the XT there.

Do you know exactly what the power supply is? I'd lean towards replacing it when it is 6+ years old unless it was something exceptional.

At the price of that Asus B450 board you could get a B550 instead to get pci-e 4.0, I'm imaging a ssd upgrade will come down the road.

When you are talking about 4k editing, streaming and light gaming I think I'd be very tempted to blow the €800 on the core system by going for a 3900X with 32GB and leave a gpu upgrade for down the road and another budget! So something like:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (€434.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard (€119.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: PNY XLR8 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€153.72 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2 GB Dual-X Video Card (Purchased For €0.00)
Case: Nanoxia Deep Silence 1 ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For €0.00)
Power Supply: SeaSonic Core GC 650 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply (€79.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €786.62

Awesome post, thank you sir

I've got a bronze 550W Golden Flower PSU which I was hoping to use as a stop-gap until I can upgrade to a fully modular biggie (750 +). Will it work with a newer board?

Also I am inclined to go all out on the MB this time, so maybe I can upgrade other parts later in the year.

Did I mention that I've got the Nanoxia Deep Silence already? She's sitting here now, eviscerated and silently contemptuous, waiting.

Thanks for your advice and time buddy, I'm researching the parts now.

Karma at you

J_V_C

minitrue wrote: »

When you are talking about 4k editing, streaming and light gaming I think I'd be very tempted to blow the €800 on the core system by going for a 3900X with 32GB and leave a gpu upgrade for down the road and another budget!

Now you're talking
This is where my head is at

minitrue

You mentioned that you had built your PC using advice here before so I could work out what case you had Originally I just did that so I could figure out what sort of a cpu cooler might fit but I didn't bother including one there as the main point was that you had the option to step up to a 3900X and 32GB which is a better bet imho for video editing and streaming. If you find it too noisy when you load it up on all cores (e.g. rendering) that's another easy enough upgrade down the road.

I'd presume your psu would be compatible but when it's coming out of a PC that died, and you mention dust build up, I personally wouldn't use something like that in a valuable new machine. 650W would let you put in up to a 3070, you could add about €20 to make it a fully modular rmx 650W but about another €35 on top of that for a 750W if you are thinking of one of the real monster cards down the road but when you say "light gaming" I doubt even a 3070 makes sense.

There's limits to how "all out" it's worth going on the board unless you know you have some particular unusual demands for down the road. B550 instead of B450 as I said gets you pci-e 4.0 so you can go to the fastest of the SSDs later in the year (the benefit to graphics cards is still very very minimal though just maybe that will change with pci-e BAR support). The board I picked was the all round basic solid choice from the recentish gamersnexus AM4 board reviews.

J_V_C

minitrue wrote: »

You mentioned that you had built your PC using advice here before so I could work out what case you had Originally I just did that so I could figure out what sort of a cpu cooler might fit

Yeh, I've got a spare chunky Coolermaster sitting around so I'll probably use it if I need to.

I'd presume your psu would be compatible but when it's coming out of a PC that died, and you mention dust build up, I personally wouldn't use something like that in a valuable new machine.

Food for thought cheers. Computer repairman tested it and gave it the all-clear, but I'll mull it over before I use it again.

650W would let you put in up to a 3070, you could add about €20 to make it a fully modular rmx 650W but about another €35 on top of that for a 750W if you are thinking of one of the real monster cards down the road but when you say "light gaming" I doubt even a 3070 makes sense.

Alrighty, I like the idea of upgrading in the future when I have more cash and an intact supply chain.

There's limits to how "all out" it's worth going on the board unless you know you have some particular unusual demands for down the road. B550 instead of B450 as I said gets you pci-e 4.0 so you can go to the fastest of the SSDs later in the year (the benefit to graphics cards is still very very minimal though just maybe that will change with pci-e BAR support). The board I picked was the all round basic solid choice from the recentish gamersnexus AM4 board reviews.

And your wisdom is much valued.
God bless ya buddy

ShadowHearth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Your main problem right now is GPUs are not available, so pre-builts are your best option.

Get onto Dell & ask for a discount on a G5 desktop (Core i5 or Core i7), and also ask if they can change the RAM to dual-channel (2 sticks instead of 1) or buy that yourself.

Does getting discounts from Dell still possible? I heard people doing it before. How would you go about it? Call them or use their online chat?

J_V_C

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Does getting discounts from Dell still possible? I heard people doing it before. How would you go about it? Call them or use their online chat?

I tried blagging a discount with Dell rep earlier, she wasn't having it.
So yeh, if anyone has any hints n tips about Dell discounts, I'm all ears.

J_V_C

Silly question, but do I really need 32 GB of ram?
Could I not get by on 16?

J_V_C

Done and done.
Thanks fellas

J_V_C

Hello again,

anyone know what to do next?
I've just realised, I've never assembled a computer before and don't know what I'm doing.

K.O.Kiki

Read the manuals!
:pac:

J_V_C

The manual is mystery wrapped in an enigma

https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/E7C56v2.1.pdf

Spear

J_V_C wrote: »

The manual is mystery wrapped in an enigma

https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/E7C56v2.1.pdf

That's pretty average for a manual.

What bits are you stuck on?

And don't forget the extra power connector for the CPU.

K.O.Kiki

J_V_C

Spear wrote: »

That's pretty average for a manual.

What bits are you stuck on?

And don't forget the extra power connector for the CPU.

Hey buddy,
I'm currently wrestling with P. 6 of the Quick Start guide, the connections to the case.

Sorry please forgive the glaring incompetence of this question...but what extra power connector for the cpu?

Spear

J_V_C wrote: »

Hey buddy,
I'm currently wrestling with P. 6 of the Quick Start guide, the connections to the case.

Sorry please forgive the glaring incompetence of this question...but what extra power connector for the cpu?

Oh, those really stupid panel connectors. They're a fairly well hated 30 year old relic.

Check the connector on the case cables. You'll see a printed plus symbol or a small black triangle on some of them, that indicates the positive pin. The triangle tends to be molded into the plastic and hard to see.

The CPU power connector is on page 8.

J_V_C

Spear wrote: »

Oh, those really stupid panel connectors. They're a fairly well hated 30 year old relic.

Check the connector on the case cables. You'll see a printed plus symbol or a small black triangle on some of them, that indicates the positive pin. The triangle tends to be molded into the plastic and hard to see.

The CPU power connector is on page 8.

Thanks a lot

I have a blue connector, split into two parts, eight pins in all, does this sound like the CPU connector?

minitrue

Two parts of 4? If so then that's probably it, if it's 6+2 then it's likely for a graphics card.

If you look closely at the connector and on the board you will see not all pins are the same, some are square and some have one side with diagonal corners. If you have the right one then when you clip the 4+4 parts together the right way round they will all match up and you will know you have it right.

Spear

J_V_C wrote: »

Thanks a lot

I have a blue connector, split into two parts, eight pins in all, does this sound like the CPU connector?

If you look at the individual pins, they're not all square, some will have flattened corners, which will stop the wrong thing being inserted. Check these against the socket on the board to make sure. Don't attempt to force any of the power connectors into any of the components.

J_V_C

minitrue wrote: »

Two parts of 4? If so then that's probably it, if it's 6+2 then it's likely for a graphics card.

If you look closely at the connector and on the board you will see not all pins are the same, some are square and some have one side with diagonal corners. If you have the right one then when you clip the 4+4 parts together the right way round they will all match up and you will know you have it right.

Yep, it's 4 x 4 and they fit perfectly, nice one

Spear wrote: »

If you look at the individual pins, they're not all square, some will have flattened corners, which will stop the wrong thing being inserted. Check these against the socket on the board to make sure. Don't attempt to force any of the power connectors into any of the components.

Righto. thanks.

Belfast

J_V_C wrote: »

Hello again,

anyone know what to do next?
I've just realised, I've never assembled a computer before and don't know what I'm doing.

A lot of videos out there to show you how to build a pc

I do hope you have an anti-static strap

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOSHOCK-Anti-Static-Grounding-Coiled-Adapter/dp/B005NZB5GK/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Anti-Static+12ft+%283.6m%29+Coiled+Cable%2C+Wrist+Strap+%26+Ground+Adapter+UK+Kit+mat&qid=1614183198&sr=8-1

K.O.Kiki

I've built & upgraded a dozen computers & never bothered with an anti-static wrist strap (even though I bought one lol)

Just don't wear acrylic socks on carpet & do touch a radiator to ground yourself before touching components IMHO

J_V_C

Belfast wrote: »

A lot of videos out there to show you how to build a pc

I do hope you have an anti-static strap

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOSHOCK-Anti-Static-Grounding-Coiled-Adapter/dp/B005NZB5GK/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Anti-Static+12ft+%283.6m%29+Coiled+Cable%2C+Wrist+Strap+%26+Ground+Adapter+UK+Kit+mat&qid=1614183198&sr=8-1

You know I've never used one? Usually I just touch a radiator, not sure if that works or is just an ol' wives tale.

Belfast

J_V_C wrote: »

You know I've never used one? Usually I just touch a radiator, not sure if that works or is just an ol' wives tale.

Touching the radiator works, but gives limited protection compared to a plugin anti-static strap.
The more synthetic materials you wear the more static you generate.
Women generate more static than men as they wear more synthetic materials than men. eg tights etc. The smaller the transistors are the easier they are to damage. AMD is now down to a 7nm process.

Before and after damage static

http://www.scantech7.com/esd-electrostatic-discharge-testing-sensitive-equipment-electronics/

Identifying ESD damage using an electron microscope
electron microscope pic of damage.

https://www.mbsitem.co.uk/identifying-esd-damage-using-an-electron-microscope/

I used to work as a silkscreen printer in the 1980s, printing anti-static warning signs and stickers for Analog devices in Limerick city.
like the one below


An anti-static strap is cheap compared to the damage that can be done to PC components.

J_V_C

Belfast wrote: »

Touching the radiator works, but give limited protection compared to a plugin anti-static strap.
The more synthetic materials you wear the more static you generate.
Women generate more static than men as they wear more synthetic materials than men. eg tights etc. The smaller the transistors are the easier they are to damage. AMD is now down to a 7nm process.

Before and after damage static

http://www.scantech7.com/esd-electrostatic-discharge-testing-sensitive-equipment-electronics/

Identifying ESD damage using an electron microscope
electron microscope pic of damage.

https://www.mbsitem.co.uk/identifying-esd-damage-using-an-electron-microscope/

I used to work as a silkscreen printer in the 1980s, printing anti-static warning signs and stickers for Analog devices in Limerick city.
like the one below


An anti-static strap is cheap compared to the damage that can be done to PC components.

Nice post thanks. I love electron photos.
Unfortunately the bracket that attaches the Coolermaster to the plate & cpu seems a little bowed because I tried to make something fit that didn't. Still got the stock AMD cooler - it was not easy to get it attached to the detachable plate, whoever designed the detachable plate has a sense of humour at least.

Gonna go camping for a few days and forget about this thing.

J_V_C

Back refreshed, ready to rock. Installed stock cooler, Connected graphics card cables, case led, power, reset cables.
Next to connect an ssd

J_V_C

Pg 26 phew!

J_V_C

Here's a mid version of my case. A snip at $ 62,497.50.

https://www.nanoxiausa.com/collections/deep-silence-soundproof-pc-cases/products/oem-custom-deep-silence-1-mid-tower-case

J_V_C

Alright gents, looks like I'm ready.

J_V_C

Aaaand it's dead.

J_V_C

dead as a dodo, zero signs of life when I press power button on case.

J_V_C

Oh sweet jebus, we ahve life.
bios updated,
oh screen comes to life...
"There is no GOP (Graphics Outpus Protocol) support detected in this card. 'Bios CSM/UEFI Mode' settings in bios will be changed to 'CSM'

Press F1 to run setup
Press F2 to run cointinue."

J_V_C

Got to move the memory.

J_V_C

Posted from Ryzen
Unfortunately connectivity is an issue, currently using ethernet/wireless to connect to router.
I have a TPLink wireless card but it doesn't seem to fit on this MB.
Any opinions on what to get next?

J_V_C

There she is.
The stock cooler tends to whine.

K.O.Kiki

Jaysus did you sleep at all? :pac:

I have a TPLink wireless card but it doesn't seem to fit on this MB.
Any opinions on what to get next?

Is it perhaps so ancient that it's PCI and not PCI-Express?
As for a new card, get whatever has Wi-Fi 6 & Bluetooth 5.0/5.1: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nwpcie&xf=14072_WLAN+802ax11

J_V_C

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Jaysus did you sleep at all? :pac:

Sure did, slept easier when it was running

Is it perhaps so ancient that it's PCI and not PCI-Express?
As for a new card, get whatever has Wi-Fi 6 & Bluetooth 5.0/5.1: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nwpcie&xf=14072_WLAN+802ax11

Alrighty.

Someone mentioned the PSU should be my next improvement, what do you think?

H3llR4iser

I gotta say the naked CPU with the 24-PIN power connected gives me an uneasy feeling

J_V_C

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I gotta say the naked CPU with the 24-PIN power connected gives me an uneasy feeling

I accidentally removed the CPU with fresh coat of paste using the cooler (I must have not locked it down right). Thankfully no damage.

There's a dickie power on switch on this ol' case, has given me a few panicky moments.

Spear

J_V_C wrote: »

I accidentally removed the CPU with fresh coat of paste using the cooler (I must have not locked it down right). Thankfully no damage.

There's a dickie power on switch on this ol' case, has given me a few panicky moments.

Been there and done that, then after a moment of terror I uttered a large number of obscene terms as it was my brand new Athlon 64 back in 2003 it happened to.

The AMD sockets provide horizontal grip against the pins, but it's still possible to pull the CPU straight up vertically and out of the socket. You may want to get into the habit of twisting the heatsink to break the seal when removing it, rather than risk a repeat.

J_V_C

Spear wrote: »

Been there and done that, then after a moment of terror I uttered a large number of obscene terms as it was my brand new Athlon 64 back in 2003 it happened to.

The AMD sockets provide horizontal grip against the pins, but it's still possible to pull the CPU straight up vertically and out of the socket. You may want to get into the habit of twisting the heatsink to break the seal when removing it, rather than risk a repeat.

Yep.
So far the machine is running fine: dodgy power switch on the case, wireless mouse laggy. I think I've got a handle on the dust.

J_V_C

Update.
Well it purred like a pussy for about two weeks.
Then I tried to overclock.
Now it's on its way back to Deutchland.

I think the MB, CPU and RAM worked a dream, great choice from poster up-thread - thanks again.

Stepping back down from a Ryzen 3600xt to an Intel Centrino Duo is like being lobotomized.