Ex employee - what would you do?

LegacyUser

Hello,

I managed a girl for approx 4 years in a fairly stressful line of work, first 3 years, no problems, the final year was what i can only describe as insane.

This employee would lie, accuse people of racism, acts of bullying and cause other people within the team distress. On one occasion she broke down in tears saying the person beside her was texting another colleague about her, it transpired she was only texting her hubby and showed her the phone as proof - crazy i know.

Finally, after multiple discussions with HR where she filed claim after claim about bullying which never got far because it was always discovered she was lying, she got up and left never to return, I got a text the next morning to say she wasn't coming back.

I found it very aburpt that she left so suddenly and i never had any run in's with her HR wise, i kept it very professional and always ensured she was managed with expectations and inline with the rest of the team.

Fast forward to 2021, i have a new job and moved to a different function. I'm part of an interview panel for a senior role and low and behold who is in the next round of interviews but the ex- employee.

I feel I have two options

1. Remove myself from the panel and explain I managed this person before, i feel if i didnt do this would go against my own credibilty as my gut tells me she wont work out for this new place (judging from her CV she has become a bit of a frequent flyer)

2. Tell the powers at be about my past experiances managing her and how bat**** crazy some things where, however if this person found out I work here and she got not further because of me, would i be expecting some sort of legal action? (Wouldn't put it past her?)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Icaras

Id tell them. The last thing you want is her saying "Bitofanoddone bullied me in my last job, now they are bullying me in this job" or have them end up working for you.
There are two sides to every story and there might be reasonable reasons for this behaviour.

2.

What proof would she have that you said anything?

bucketybuck

Is this a serious question?

What do you think an interview is if it isn't the employer trying to find out more about the candidate and whether or not they would be a good employee?

You already know that she would be a very risky hire, you are senior enough to be giving the interviews. I don't mean to be rude, but do your job and inform the powers that be about those risks.

If I found out one of my senior managers was keeping info like that to themselves I'd be ****ing livid.

Mrs OBumble

Ask your HR people for some professional development for yourself around hiring. You do not have the option to sit things out just because you know a candidate.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ask your HR people for some professional development for yourself around hiring. You do not have the option to sit things out just because you know a candidate.

Yes he does. He shouldn't be interviewing her. If she didn't get the job she could claim unfair interview as he was baised towards her.

stargazer 68

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Yes he does. He shouldn't be interviewing her. If she didn't get the job she could claim unfair interview as he was baised towards her.

I disagree. What if it was an internal interview for promotion- the whole panel would know all the candidates then.

We regularly hold interviews which have external and internal candidates and you simply do your job. The idea of a panel is that it's fair - doesn't always happen but that's how it is.

We have some employees that I only wish we had received a heads up on before giving them the job!

Buddy Bubs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ask your HR people for some professional development for yourself around hiring. You do not have the option to sit things out just because you know a candidate.

I opted out of an interview with someone I know last week because of an entirely different reason, I recommended the candidate.

This candidate in this thread isn't going to get hired, and that's fine, no problem there. If the OP let's it be known that he has previous experience of her, that experience will trump the opinions gained in the interview.

SeaFields

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ask your HR people for some professional development for yourself around hiring. You do not have the option to sit things out just because you know a candidate.

That's a matter of company policy rather than "personal development". The policy might well be that the poster should recuse themselves from the interview. Bit of an unnecessary personal snipe at the op to be honest.

bucketybuck

SeaFields wrote: »

That's a matter of company policy rather than "personal development". The policy might well be that the poster should recuse themselves from the interview.

Somebody who already has insight on the candidate should recuse themselves from the procedure where the company tries to gain some insight on the candidate.

Thats just assbackwards.

Sonic the Shaghog

Would it not make more sense go to your superiors who created the panel as well as the other panel members and tell them exactly what you've said? Then tell them given her past of lying you are seriously concerned she would make another false claim and ask them what you think is the better option, sitting in on it or not.

drunkmonkey

Ask your boss what would they do. You'll be thanked for your honesty and she won't get the job. You do not want her walking into an interview and your sitting there.
That's about as complicated as this needs to be.

alchemist33

Depends on your company's policies. I've sat on a few for the NHS. Interviewers are given sheets with the questions already on them and you score the candidate based on their answers and experience. References are looked at after the best-scoring candidate is identified. There's no room to bring in your previous experience with the candidate and bringing it up with your panel members could get you in serious trouble.

But the private sector may be different. I'd say talk to HR and tell them your past experience may bias you, and see what they say.

B.A._Baracus

Let the others know she's full of drama, mad and a headache. The interview will just be a formality as she was already offered one before you let the others know the score.

She'd do the same to you if the shoe was on the other foot.

Tell me how

Tell your boss that this person is likely not a good candidate for the company and that you feel you shouldn't interview them given your prior involvement with them.
If your company says you should still do the interview, do it and just be professional and try to make a point of asking no leading questions which this person could use to suggest they were being prejudiced against.
Keep your own notes of the interview process and hopefully the interview panel will collectively feel that this person did not demonstrate that they would be a good fit for the company in a way that other candidates did.

Your company should be keeping records after interviews anyway, but now would be a good time to ensure that they are.

JoChervil

OP, are you 100% sure your view of the whole situation was correct? Maybe after 3 years your company hired a very smart trouble maker, who was provoking her, while never was discovered? The fact that on that one occasion she was wrong accusing another of texting about her, doesn't prove anything. It might have happened that on few previous occasions these texts were about her and the last one was to a husband to provoke her and then prove her wrong?

Some people can be very manipulative. She wouldn't fill claims, if it was all in her imagination. And she wouldn't left, if situation for her hadn't become unbearable.

But if you are entirely sure, that it was all her fault, so I would tell about it your superiors. But if there is the slightest chance that your previous company failed her, I would also tell about such doubts, if I had them.

thefa

Would have thought a company would have some screening process to prevent a trouble-making ex-employee making it into an interview for a senior role.

bilbot79

120 million percent you tell them and they thank you for the warning. Dont hire someone you need to manage out

OMM 0000

Bitofanoddone wrote: »

bat**** crazy some things where, however if this person found out I work here and she got not further because of me, would i be expecting some sort of legal action? (Wouldn't put it past her?)

You have to prevent her from getting the job.

If she gets it, she will see you as a major threat so she'll start bad mouthing you to everyone. She'll claim you're a racist, etc.

OMM 0000

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is this a serious question?

What do you think an interview is if it isn't the employer trying to find out more about the candidate and whether or not they would be a good employee?

You already know that she would be a very risky hire, you are senior enough to be giving the interviews. I don't mean to be rude, but do your job and inform the powers that be about those risks.

If I found out one of my senior managers was keeping info like that to themselves I'd be ****ing livid.

Agree with this completely.

Interviews are as much about eliminating people as they are about hiring people.

That's why you're asked what your weakness is - it's to eliminate you.

She has a lot of weaknesses and needs to be eliminated.

Darc19

Her CV showing that she moves jobs frequently should be enough to prevent her getting the job and would be the primary reason for the decision.

But definitely recuse yourself from the interview and inform the others that you worked with her previously and found her to be troublesome but add that "she could have changed" thus leaving the decision to them

Marty1983

Awkward one, Given you never had any run in's with her you dont automatically have to remove yourself. Generally the more senior the role she smaller pool of candidates so you are likely to know or know of some candidates.

As other posters said i would flag with HR (in writing) that your previously managed this candidate and would not have any conflict of interest interviewing her.

Wanderer78

Bitofanoddone wrote:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Very difficult situation, it actually sounds like this woman may in fact need professional help, ive no advice, I wish you well with it

Optimalprimerib

That's why you don't burn bridges, the more companies you work for, the smaller the world gets. Recuse yourself from the interview and tell your manager what you know.

She created this problem for herself, not you.

Zebrag

Bitofanoddone wrote: »

Hello,

I managed a girl for approx 4 years in a fairly stressful line of work, first 3 years, no problems, the final year was what i can only describe as insane.

This employee would lie, accuse people of racism, acts of bullying and cause other people within the team distress. On one occasion she broke down in tears saying the person beside her was texting another colleague about her, it transpired she was only texting her hubby and showed her the phone as proof - crazy i know.

Finally, after multiple discussions with HR where she filed claim after claim about bullying which never got far because it was always discovered she was lying, she got up and left never to return, I got a text the next morning to say she wasn't coming back.

I found it very aburpt that she left so suddenly and i never had any run in's with her HR wise, i kept it very professional and always ensured she was managed with expectations and inline with the rest of the team.

Fast forward to 2021, i have a new job and moved to a different function. I'm part of an interview panel for a senior role and low and behold who is in the next round of interviews but the ex- employee.

I feel I have two options

1. Remove myself from the panel and explain I managed this person before, i feel if i didnt do this would go against my own credibilty as my gut tells me she wont work out for this new place (judging from her CV she has become a bit of a frequent flyer)

2. Tell the powers at be about my past experiances managing her and how bat**** crazy some things where, however if this person found out I work here and she got not further because of me, would i be expecting some sort of legal action? (Wouldn't put it past her?)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The saying "Honesty is the best Policy" rings true for this situation
Personally I would tell the powers that be simply because YOU already know what she is like as an employee and if that's how she was previously, I would be lead to think that she could still be the same person. Granted people change and maybe the previous job changed her for the worst so she left. In fairness she never really gave her side for when she suddenly started accusing people of bullying but then after months of accusations and she was proven to be lying, might even state that mentally, she isn't well
That's not to say that physically she isn't a good worker

2 things I would do...

Inform the powers that be and explain that you doing the possible interview might change the dynamics of the interview process completely
You can express how she was in the previous job and explain that even though this was a couple of years ago you don't belive that her actions previously is a risk willing to take again

Can I ask, would it be possible for her to find out if you were in the panel? Would your company be big enough for her to know who's who? It would be brazen of her to return to a company after leaving with no notice or explanation, regardless of the different department and position as believe it or not, words can travel

But to keep yourself out the situation completely and avoid any stress, you're best off being up front and honest

cee_jay

Speak to your HR department in the first instance to ask their policy on situations where you know the interviewee. For example, where I am, if you know the person, when giving feedback at the end, you have to go last so as to not bias the impressions formed by the other interviewers on the panel.
In interview situations, technically you can only judge on the answers provided by the candidate during the interview, and in comparison to others interviewing for the role.

Foweva Awone

OK so I have some sympathy for the candidate. Without giving my entire life story, basically I was a NIGHTMARE employee (far far worse than this girl) due to untreated addiction and severe mental health issues. I left a previous job on really terrible terms, then took maybe 4 years off work (on disability benefit) doing intense work on myself to sort my s*** out. I then really slowly eased myself back into the workplace, first on a CE scheme, then on a minimum wage supermarket job... And now I'm back working in the industry I trained for, in a really good job, and I'm doing really well in it.

My fear when doing interviews was that, with Dublin being so small, someone would know someone from my past who would tell them what a horrendous employee I was. But the fact is, I'm not that person anymore. I didn't want to sit at home on my arse on disability benefit for the rest of my life, and I'm proud of myself for getting to where I am now. I'm very grateful to those who gave me a chance at a fresh start along the way, and I'm pretty much a model employee these days.

To me it seems very possible that this person was suffering from some mental health issues which made her act the way she did. Obviously, there is probably no way of knowing whether she's managed to identify and treat these issues.

Having said all that, unfortunately I do think it's your responsibility to disclose all you know about her. I'd just ask you to be as fair and balanced as you can. Give your colleagues the information about your experiences with her without exaggeration, but be sure to also disclose any positive attributes or strengths she had. If you do end up actually interviewing her, do your best to do it with a completely open mind.

It's a really tough situation. But at the end of the day, your loyalty is to your current company, and it's your duty to disclose what you know about her. Bad hires can be so costly in many ways. You don't want it to come back and bite you on the arse if history repeats itself, and it becomes clear that you knew all this about her and didn't say it.

Foweva Awone

thefa wrote: »

Would have thought a company would have some screening process to prevent a trouble-making ex-employee making it into an interview for a senior role.

But she's not an ex-employee.

tayto lover

You’re in new employment with some authority. Use it. Your duty to your new employers is to warn them of impending trouble. Be assertive.

Mrs OBumble

SeaFields wrote: »

That's a matter of company policy rather than "personal development". The policy might well be that the poster should recuse themselves from the interview. Bit of an unnecessary personal snipe at the op to be honest.

I didn't say personal development.

I said professional. Big difference, and not a snipe.

A person who's on an interview panel should have received adequate training that they know the answer to questions like this without coming to Boards for an answer. If they haven't, HR have fupped up, and need to be told to fix the issue.

LegacyUser

Hi All, OP here.

I did the sensible thing in this situation and alerted leadership that I managed this person before, as a earlier reply mention "honesty is the best policy". I had informed them of snippets of the issues that i was aware of.

I was told that i could excuse myself from the panel and a new panel would be put together to interview the candidate.

They didnt proceed to offer her the role so i am presuming the new panel didnt like her interview.

Its has put me at ease and I am glad this is over. I do honestly wish this person all the best and perhaps there is something going on in the background, looking back there was alot of erratic behavior and perhaps the stress of the role added to this.

Thanks for the replies

OMM 0000

Bitofanoddone wrote: »

I do honestly wish this person all the best and perhaps there is something going on in the background, looking back there was alot of erratic behavior and perhaps the stress of the role added to this.

Imagine Joe was fired because the company believed her racism claims.

Joe has a young family and is now struggling to get a new job because his CV lists a position he was fired from for being a racist.

His life is severely damaged because of her lies.

So I think it's kind of gross to wish her all the best...

I sense from your two posts (unsure if you should warn the company about hiring a dangerous person; wishing that dangerous person all the best) that you are perhaps too soft. You're moving into management now and unfortunately that means you're going to see the worst of people (and the best). If you don't toughen up people are going to walk all over you.

thewolfisloose

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Imagine Joe was fired because the company believed her racism claims.

Joe has a young family and is now struggling to get a new job because his CV lists a position he was fired from for being a racist.

His life is severely damaged because of her lies.

So I think it's kind of gross to wish her all the best...

I sense from your two posts (unsure if you should warn the company about hiring a dangerous person; wishing that dangerous person all the best) that you are perhaps too soft. You're moving into management now and unfortunately that means you're going to see the worst of people (and the best). If you don't toughen up people are going to walk all over you.

Why are you condemning OP on completely hypothetical circumstances?

Acting with any sort of vitriol here would absolutely result in a guilty conscience. Very high chance of grossing out witnessing colleagues too.

OMM 0000

thewolfisloose wrote: »

Why are you condemning OP on completely hypothetical circumstances?

Please read the first post in this thread.

The crazy person was trying to get people fired based on false racism and bullying accusations. She was trying to damage people's lives. It's just lucky she was working for a company where the decisions makers have a bit of cop on. But her accusations could easily have been believed and people could have been fired.

Try to think through how difficult your job hunting will be if you're fired for racism. Now incorporate the fact you're not a racist and a psycho has screwed up your life. That is a terrible situation.

The crazy person should be condemned completely and does not deserve the OPs sympathy.

thewolfisloose

thewolfisloose wrote: »

Why are you condemning OP on completely hypothetical circumstances?

Acting with any sort of vitriol here would absolutely result in a guilty conscience. Very high chance of grossing out witnessing colleagues too.

Why “guilty conscience”?

Surely it’s the responsibility of an interviewer to help assess whether an applicant is suitable for the job. The op knows this applicant has history of causing trouble, why would he/she not relay that to the people making the decision?

thewolfisloose

Dav010 wrote: »

Why “guilty conscience”?

Surely it’s the responsibility of an interviewer to help assess whether an applicant is suitable for the job. The op knows this applicant has history of causing trouble, why would he/she not relay that to the people making the decision?

Absolutely, but why would OP choose to appear on the panel when concerns could be raised discreetly?

Interview and deny an unstable ex-colleague vs. an email to HR + an email to the other hiring managers.

OP did not interview the candidate and made the right decision in asking to be removed.

thewolfisloose

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Please read the first post in this thread.

The crazy person was trying to get people fired based on false racism and bullying accusations. She was trying to damage people's lives. It's just lucky she was working for a company where the decisions makers have a bit of cop on. But her accusations could easily have been believed and people could have been fired.

Try to think through how difficult your job hunting will be if you're fired for racism. Now incorporate the fact you're not a racist and a psycho has screwed up your life. That is a terrible situation.

The crazy person should be condemned completely and does not deserve the OPs sympathy.

In fairness, I don't know what you expect out of OP here. He's hardly going to prolong a thread name-calling an individual he was asking advice for an exit strategy on.

"I wish her all the best" is business speak for good f*cking riddance

cursai

Maybe she has issues that need a bit of compassion. She didn't actually do anything vindictive against and did no harm. She might have mental health issues.

Also calling someone like this crazy is despicable and tarnishing her in front of an interview board....

OMM 0000

cursai wrote: »

She didn't actually do anything vindictive against and did no harm.

Ah yeah, falsely accusing people of racism and bullying and trying to get them fired is harmless and not in any way vindictive.

cursai

cursai wrote: »

Maybe she has issues that need a bit of compassion. She didn't actually do anything vindictive against and did no harm. She might have mental health issues.

Also calling someone like this crazy is despicable and tarnishing her in front of an interview board....

Read this again from the OP and tell me there's nothing vindictive or harmful in her behaviour:

This employee would lie, accuse people of racism, acts of bullying and cause other people within the team distress. On one occasion she broke down in tears saying the person beside her was texting another colleague about her, it transpired she was only texting her hubby and showed her the phone as proof - crazy i know.

Finally, after multiple discussions with HR where she filed claim after claim about bullying which never got far because it was always discovered she was lying