An Irish Ski Resort

Rebelbrowser

Just reading this piece in the Guardian ( https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2021/feb/12/closed-ski-resort-scotland-glencoe-coronavirus-in-pictures ), and more especially looking at the pictures, it did prompt the thought with me of - If you had to put a ski resort somewhere in Ireland, where would that be? Now I know no sane person would - you need a snow sure location and nowhere in Ireland is that - but let's assume for a moment you have a billionaire client willing to run this at a loss as an altruistic gesture to the masses. Given local climates, propensity for snow, propensity for snow to stick around, as well as the required slope, where would you put it if he / she hired you as his / her consultant?

Just looking, the Scottish mountains referred to in this article have a height of 1108m and runs that go down to 305m, so a vertical drop of 803m. By comparison our highest mountain is only 1038m.

Moreover, weather wise, we obviously have nowhere to compete with the Scottish highlands. That said, snowmaking is part and parcel of most ski resorts these days (but again only at low enough temps).

But these caveats aside, if you had to put a ski resort somewhere on this island, where is the most viable (or perhaps the least unviable)?

DOCARCH

Lugnaquilla.

Tabnabs

North face of Kippure? Often snow in the gullies there for weeks on end.

Rebelbrowser

frantically googles both.... I hear them mentioned a lot on here but never actually know where these mountains are.

Rebelbrowser

For those of us not from that part of the world see

https://visitwicklow.ie/listing/lugnaquilla-mountain-trail/

and

https://mountainviews.ie/summit/73/

Kippure at 757m seems a bit too low. Lug seems to be 925m but looks steep on the photos I've just seen? Not sure you'd get too many long blues out of it....

Seymour20

Would have said somewhere in Donegal myself if it’s for frequency of snow you’re looking for. Quality of snow leaves a lot to be desired in Ireland. The easterly sourced powdery snow is much better for skiing on that any northwesterly sourced snow. Then again some decent altitude would help that but Ireland has nothing to offer height wise. Snow making is done when it’s sub zero generally and even getting those conditions at altitude in Ireland doesn’t happen that often. Unlikely the mountains will be below freezing this coming week if temperatures are 13 plus at sea level.

Nqp15hhu

Slieve donard or sawel mountain.

Nqp15hhu

Seymour20 wrote: »

Would have said somewhere in Donegal myself if it’s for frequency of snow you’re looking for. Quality of snow leaves a lot to be desired in Ireland. The easterly sourced powdery snow is much better for skiing on that any northwesterly sourced snow. Then again some decent altitude would help that but Ireland has nothing to offer height wise. Snow making is done when it’s sub zero generally and even getting those conditions at altitude in Ireland doesn’t happen that often. Unlikely the mountains will be below freezing this coming week if temperatures are 13 plus at sea level.

Well the highest hills can be around 8c lower than sea level so they will be below freezing a lot of the time! I know the higher sperrins have a semi permanent snow cover in the winter.

Rebelbrowser

Cue more frantic googling....

Nqp15hhu

This is the forecast for Slieve donard: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gceu1pqy9#?date=2021-02-12

It will still be cold enough for snow up there during the milder weather!

I would say about 4,000 feet would be the permanent snowline in the winter here. Even though the freezing level occasionally rises to 8,000 feet in winter it’s not a long term or frequent thing.

DOCARCH

DOCARCH wrote: »

Lugnaquilla.

Im looking out the window at lug now and its stunning in white.
About 25km away so I cant say how much there is

Sun2Snow

For me it’s Lugnaquilla, would give a nice mix for black and green runs and all leading to a perfect spot for some apres ski at Glenmalure.

Seymour20

BrownFinger wrote: »

Im looking out the window at lug now and its stunning in white.
About 25km away so I cant say how much there is

There are videos of people skiing down parts of Lug on YouTube so it is possible! Have heard for the bit of skiing you get it’s not really worth the hike.

Nqp15hhu

If you take an average high of 7c and go up by 100 metres taking off 0.6c.

The -2c average high will be 1500 metres, so 5,000 feet.

-1c will be 1340 metres, so 4300 feet.

0c isotherm will be 1150 metres.

So the average high 0c isotherm would be around 1150 metres.. 3800 feet.

Slieve donard is not that far off that level.

nacho libre

Funnily enough I have been thinking recently what if we had a mountain range that was over 10, 000 feet in the West Of Ireland. Could we get your billionaire to create one? Problem solved!





If we had such a mountain range right along the west coast, imagine how much drier it would be over much of the country. Maybe there is a parallel world in which that Ireland has such a mountain range. I've been watching Sliders recently. The series went to pot after Professor Arturo left. Oh wait... this is the weather forum...

DOCARCH

Seymour20 wrote: »

There are videos of people skiing down parts of Lug on YouTube so it is possible! Have heard for the bit of skiing you get it’s not really worth the hike.

Here ya go.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOhEyM_EzeE

Seymour20

https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Knockmealdown/6day/top

This website is generally fairly accurate and used by many skiers in other countries. Doesn’t have many Irish mountains on it and none from your part of the country up north although that would fall under the UK section. Gives an indication of how high the freezing level will be. Think your estimates there are fairly accurate!

DJIMI TRARORE

Could we just build an indoor ski resort like in Abu Dhabi, 40c outside, - 10 indoor

Alun

When there's a decent amount of snow in Wicklow, you often see snowboarders head for the back of Djouce (northern side) or Tonelagee. I met a German tourist on touring skis on the top of Lug one winter too who asked me if I thought it would be OK to ski down the South Prison. Those who know Lug would know that this isn't really a good idea, so I persuaded him to go back the way he'd come.

An issue with many potential spots, in Wicklow at least, is the nature of the ground underneath the snow with lots of large rocks and holes. Places in, say, the Cairngorms in Scotland are by their nature much flatter and smoother.

Seymour20

Alun wrote: »

When there's a decent amount of snow in Wicklow, you often see snowboarders head for the back of Djouce (northern side) or Tonelagee. I met a German tourist on touring skis on the top of Lug one winter too who asked me if I thought it would be OK to ski down the South Prison. Those who know Lug would know that this isn't really a good idea, so I persuaded him to go back the way he'd come.

An issue with many potential spots, in Wicklow at least, is the nature of the ground underneath the snow with lots of large rocks and holes. Places in, say, the Cairngorms in Scotland are by their nature much flatter and smoother.

Heather and the lack of snow could also be an issue. Also get lots of ledges as the bog drops off a bit or at least you do around these parts. If the snow depth doesn’t cover these your beginner skier is in for a shock.

Alun

Seymour20 wrote: »

Heather and the lack of snow could also be an issue. Also get lots of ledges as the bog drops off a bit or at least you do around these parts. If the snow depth doesn’t cover these your beginner skier is in for a shock.

Yes, there's a huge difference between experienced back-country skiers hiking up somewhere like Lug and skiing down and actually setting up a proper ski resort for recreational skiers.

Alun

By the way, there are skiing areas in Northern England too, in the Pennines and the Lake District at elevations not dissimilar to what we find in Ireland. Generally they're in places that due to the lay of the land and wind direction tend to get, and keep, reasonable amounts of snow even when it's all but disappeared elsewhere.

Tyrone212

We'd need something like this.. the idea never got off the ground. Story is from 2011.

After a Dutch journalist bemoaned the lack of local mountains for winter sports, a Netherlands-based architecture firm drew up some incredibly ambitious plans for a manmade mountain to satisfy that need, according to Building Design (via Curbed).
The project sounds over-the-top, but the architects and local officials are reportedly moving forward with the plan and are currently convening a working group to brainstorm ideas.

The mountain, tentatively called Die Berg Komt Er, or The Mountain Comes, could take thirty years to complete and is projected to cost between $72 billion and $432 billion dollars (yes, you read those figures correctly).

Investors are already being sought for the project, and Dutch skiing, climbing, and cycling associations have signed on, according to BD.

If things go according to plan, the peak will be twice the height of Snowdon, the highest mountain in Wales, which rises 3,560 feet above sea level.

I propose we build one up to 2,500m. Anywhere along the Western coast as it is the wettest. County Galway perhaps, as it is in the middle of the Western coastline. We shall call it Sneachta mór

An Ri rua

Tyrone212 wrote: »

We'd need something like this.. the idea never got off the ground. Story is from 2011.

After a Dutch journalist bemoaned the lack of local mountains for winter sports, a Netherlands-based architecture firm drew up some incredibly ambitious plans for a manmade mountain to satisfy that need, according to Building Design (via Curbed).
The project sounds over-the-top, but the architects and local officials are reportedly moving forward with the plan and are currently convening a working group to brainstorm ideas.

The mountain, tentatively called Die Berg Komt Er, or The Mountain Comes, could take thirty years to complete and is projected to cost between $72 billion and $432 billion dollars (yes, you read those figures correctly).

Investors are already being sought for the project, and Dutch skiing, climbing, and cycling associations have signed on, according to BD.

If things go according to plan, the peak will be twice the height of Snowdon, the highest mountain in Wales, which rises 3,560 feet above sea level.

I propose we build one up to 2,500m. Anywhere along the Western coast as it is the wettest. County Galway perhaps, as it is in the middle of the Western coastline. We shall call it Sneachta mór

I think a Star Trek holodeck might come in cheaper.

Donegal Storm

nacho libre wrote: »

Funnily enough I have been thinking recently what if we had a mountain range that was over 10, 000 feet in the West Of Ireland. Could we get your billionaire to create one? Problem solved!

The mountains in the Pacific NW in the US are a good window into what we'd probably experience if we had such mountains.

The aptly named Paradise calls itself the snowiest place on earth with an average of 17 metres every year :eek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_Washington

gally74

nacho libre wrote: »

Funnily enough I have been thinking recently what if we had a mountain range that was over 10, 000 feet in the West Of Ireland. Could we get your billionaire to create one? Problem solved!





If we had such a mountain range right along the west coast, imagine how much drier it would be over much of the country. Maybe there is a parallel world in which that Ireland has such a mountain range. I've been watching Sliders recently. The series went to pot after Professor Arturo left. Oh wait... this is the weather forum...

firned of mine always reckoned we should dig out CAVAn and create a 10K meter peak near athlone

Speedline

Wasn't, or isn't there an artificial ski slope in Wicklow somewhere? I remember it a long time ago on the way to Wexford, pre motorway and bypass times. I'm almost sure it was near Enniskerry somewhere.

Mimon

gally74 wrote: »

firned of mine always reckoned we should dig out CAVAn and create a 10K meter peak near athlone

Mad fella I'd say he is :rolleyes:

Nice stoner idea but why would you ruin the beautiful rolling hills and displace the nicest and most selfless people in the country Plus ruin one of the snowiest parts of the country

Lip Out

I have done a fair bit of snowboarding and skiing on the Wicklow Mountains over the years. Lug would probably be best in terms of the amount of days it has snow cover each year. Here are two photos from back in January 2010 up by Luggala and at the carpark for Djouce. And no... thankfully that car was not mine and yes, it did remain there snowed in for several weeks.

gozunda

Speedline wrote: »

Wasn't, or isn't there an artificial ski slope in Wicklow somewhere? I remember it a long time ago on the way to Wexford, pre motorway and bypass times. I'm almost sure it was near Enniskerry somewhere.

There was afair....

Thing is many ski resorts use manufactured blown snow using snow cannons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eOiRM1JApg

Elmer Blooker

It wouldn't be economically viable to develop an Irish ski resort and not because our mountains aren't high enough but good skiing conditions would occur maybe only once every ten years.
A good snow pack is required and I'm sure there is on Lugnaquilla right now but that will be gone in a few days time.

trashcan

Speedline wrote: »

Wasn't, or isn't there an artificial ski slope in Wicklow somewhere? I remember it a long time ago on the way to Wexford, pre motorway and bypass times. I'm almost sure it was near Enniskerry somewhere.

Kiltiernan ? Went there before my first ever ski holiday. My very first time on skis and if I hadn’t booked already it would have put me off. Would be different now that I can ski, but falling on that stuff ain’t nice. It bloody hurts.

Having serious ski withdrawal this year. Would be great if we could ski here, but I can’t see it being feasible in any shape or form.

mcburns07

trashcan wrote: »

Kiltiernan ? Went there before my first ever ski holiday. My very first time on skis and if I hadn’t booked already it would have put me off. Would be different now that I can ski, but falling on that stuff ain’t nice. It bloody hurts.

Having serious ski withdrawal this year. Would be great if we could ski here, but I can’t see it being feasible in any shape or form.

Went there for a refresher a few years ago after 10 years out of the game, I had been snowboarding previously a fair bit while living in France on Erasmus. Caught an edge and almost broke my tailbone. It’s like falling on concrete. Luckily I was recovered for my snowboarding holiday in Canada the following week, real snow is much more forgiving both of technique and when falling on it! Hopefully get back out there next year

Mr Bumble

In terms of terrain, the slopes down to Lough Tay and Luggala are just about ideal as nice boarder pic above shows. Been down a few times left of the gate. Hard slog back up but worth it. There's some excellent stuff on youtube from 2010 ad 2018 I think. I've also been down the 11th fairway in Delgany golf club which is a blue run but way better than golf.
Problem with most of the Wicklow Mts is pitch. Apart from a few spots, the only places steep enough are cliffs or scree.
Kilternan SC is still running.
There was talk (maybe even planning application?) for huge indoor ski centre near Newtownmountkenedy at the height of the tiger

prunudo

Lip Out wrote: »

I have done a fair bit of snowboarding and skiing on the Wicklow Mountains over the years. Lug would probably be best in terms of the amount of days it has snow cover each year. Here are two photos from back in January 2010 up by Luggala and at the carpark for Djouce. And no... thankfully that car was not mine and yes, it did remain there snowed in for several weeks.

Was up there that time myself, unfortunately my photos don't do it the justice yours do.
I remember that freelander well, had never realised some of them were only 2wd.

It was one of most surreal times snowboarding, sitting on the hill, looking at lough tay, blue skies, absolute peace and just floating on Irish powder.
You could probably count on 2 hands the amount of people up there and remember we were saying the rest of the country could have been falling apart and we wouldn't have been the wiser, absolute heaven.

On another occasion think 2013, myself and my brother hiked as far as white hill and boarded back to Ballinastoe carpack but snow cover was less than ideal and compacted hardpack once back on the fire roads.

arctictree

Speedline wrote: »

Wasn't, or isn't there an artificial ski slope in Wicklow somewhere? I remember it a long time ago on the way to Wexford, pre motorway and bypass times. I'm almost sure it was near Enniskerry somewhere.

We went up there once and it was closed because of snow!

Nqp15hhu

Lip Out wrote: »

I have done a fair bit of snowboarding and skiing on the Wicklow Mountains over the years. Lug would probably be best in terms of the amount of days it has snow cover each year. Here are two photos from back in January 2010 up by Luggala and at the carpark for Djouce. And no... thankfully that car was not mine and yes, it did remain there snowed in for several weeks.

Incredible photos if only it was like that every year!

joujoujou

It's theoretically possible to create one, but it would need low temperatures combined with low-ish air humidity. The rest would be up to snow cannons and huge pile of money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowmaking#Snowmaking_guns

trashcan

arctictree wrote: »

We went up there once and it was closed because of snow!

Now that’s irony Alanis Morissette . Reminds me of the time during the heavy snow here a few years ago when we were flying out on the Saturday morning to Austria. It was touch and go as to whether we’d get away at all. Five hour delay at the airport, but we made it thankfully.

blindsider

skiclub.ie has the details of the slope in Kiltegan.

Some deluded individual decided to put a mini slope in the Glen Resource Centre in Cork. Cost a fortune AFAIR and any time I called them in the past 5 yrs, they had no qualified instructor so the slope was closed for skiiing/boarding.

They got creative to hide their error, and it's now a 'snow-tubing' slope:rolleyes:

This one https://www.norfolksnowsports.com/ is in Norfolk UK - not exactly the biggest place in the world but look at the facility.......

snowstreams

https://flic.kr/p/7HRTsy
I've skied on the Northern gullies of kippure (757m) before and also on tonlagee (800m) at the wicklow gap.
Both are accessible by road and reasonably high altitude.
The kippure gullies had skiable snow for over 3 months in 2010.

Rebelbrowser

blindsider wrote: »

skiclub.ie has the details of the slope in Kiltegan.

Some deluded individual decided to put a mini slope in the Glen Resource Centre in Cork. Cost a fortune AFAIR and any time I called them in the past 5 yrs, they had no qualified instructor so the slope was closed for skiiing/boarding.

They got creative to hide their error, and it's now a 'snow-tubing' slope:rolleyes:

This one https://www.norfolksnowsports.com/ is in Norfolk UK - not exactly the biggest place in the world but look at the facility.......

Brought my 8 year old kid to the Glen to ski before his first ski trip about 5 years ago. But you are right, rarely open since (I play 5 aside there so regularly scout this!)

Darc19

There were plans to build an indoor ski resort in Newtownmountkennedy many years ago.