Was British Hong Kong effectively an apartheid state?

cryptocurrency

Was reading some stuff about Hong Kong due to the new visa scheme for holders of what is known as a"British Overseas Passport" and the more you dig in the more unpleasant it starts to feel.

The BNO Passport was basically created in the '80s to ensure that HK Residents didn't have rights to claim to be British.

Seems that all the best jobs, suburbs and even beaches were exclusive for the British for most of the period and even had different times where people who lived there could go to a museum. This was all during a time where the British/Europeans were about 2/3% of the population.

Anyone know much about this?

biko

Seems that all the best jobs, suburbs and even beaches were exclusive for the British for most of the period and even had different times where people who lived there could go to a museum

Can you provide some sources for your claims?

HK were under British rule 1841 to 1997, I can see "apartheid" in the early days as that is how the Brits rolled.

cryptocurrency

https://hub.hku.hk/bitstream/10722/134452/1/Content.pdf?accept=1

https://twitter.com/KN551355/status/1355842603434954754?s=20

There are lots of books and papers if you look.

cryptocurrency

That is a letter from the UK foreign secretary to the UK home secretary at the time with a copy going to Maggie who was PM. This isn't low-level stuff.

RasTa

Now China don't recognise it and the Brits will let them in.

biko

In response to the new Chinese "security law", the UK vowed to offer British National (Overseas) status to individuals from the region.
Around 300000 people are expected into UK from HK over the next years.

Those who apply and succeed will be entitled to apply for settlement after five years and after a further 12 months, they will be able to apply for British citizenship.

RasTa

biko wrote: »

In response to the new Chinese "security law", the UK vowed to offer British National (Overseas) status to individuals from the region.
Around 300000 people are expected into UK from HK over the next years.

Those who apply and succeed will be entitled to apply for settlement after five years and after a further 12 months, they will be able to apply for British citizenship.

Yeah I know, the Brexit lads won't like it.

biko

Brexit people probably will have nothing bad to say about highly skilled and low-crime immigrants from SE Asia.

Of course they will help move economic focus away from HK to London. For the most part it's a win for UK.

cryptocurrency

biko wrote: »

In response to the new Chinese "security law", the UK vowed to offer British National (Overseas) status to individuals from the region.
Around 300000 people are expected into UK from HK over the next years.

Those who apply and succeed will be entitled to apply for settlement after five years and after a further 12 months, they will be able to apply for British citizenship.

Don't think the numbers will be as high as they think. I can see a number of the low skilled poor folk frustrated by housing and maybe one or two high profile ones who are fleeing because they really have some shady business deals to get away from and the loot. Usual stuff.

Can see the disaster stories in a few years too. Isn't one of the first to come, a high profile protester, living on the streets for months now.

I think the UK will also freeze up when they realise the array of wealthy, highly connected, Chinese that will have insider links to the mammoth economic growth in the region hasn't materialised.

cryptocurrency

biko wrote: »

Brexit people probably will have nothing bad to say about highly skilled and low-crime immigrants from SE Asia.

Of course they will help move economic focus away from HK to London. For the most part it's a win for UK.

Doubt the highly skilled will come. If they have skills they will either have ample reason to stay or options like Singapore are viable alternatives. What reason would they pick the UK if they are highly skilled and highly mobile. Traditionally Chinese migrants a long time back were very poor Cantonese and most of the mainland students these days return home as they have more options.

biko

Considering that 3 million Hong Kong residents could potentially move to UK, we'll see.

Britain announced Wednesday that it was extending residency rights for up to 3 million Hong Kongers eligible for the British National Overseas passport, stressing that it would uphold its historic duty to the former British colony after Beijing imposed a sweeping new national security law in the city.

But the offer is for older people that also can afford to relocate.

Hong Kongers who were born after the end of British rule in 1997 are not eligible, meaning that in effect, many of the city’s young student activists who are most at risk of arrest under the new law cannot take advantage of the British offer.

https://apnews.com/article/38f3a51196efb8450e1207d971c55516

biko

The BNO passport created when Britain handed over Hong Kong to China in 1997 conferred few rights.

But when China clamped down on the territory last year, that changed.
The British government has offered a pathway that could lead to citizenship for the estimated 3m people who are eligible for BNO passports, plus their dependants.

Before the protests, 167,000 Hong Kongers held BNO passports; by August last year, 612,000 did.
Nobody knows how many will apply for the visa.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/01/30/hong-kongers-eye-british-citizenship-but-fear-retaliation-from-china

cryptocurrency

biko wrote: »

The BNO passport created when Britain handed over Hong Kong to China in 1997 conferred few rights.

But when China clamped down on the territory last year, that changed.
The British government has offered a pathway that could lead to citizenship for the estimated 3m people who are eligible for BNO passports, plus their dependants.

Before the protests, 167,000 Hong Kongers held BNO passports; by August last year, 612,000 did.
Nobody knows how many will apply for the visa.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/01/30/hong-kongers-eye-british-citizenship-but-fear-retaliation-from-china

We know this history, I suspect many didn't know where it was going so took the BNO as a safety net but I doubt anywhere near the 612k will come, not even 20%. Could be wrong but I will be more than surprised, shocked actually.

RasTa

What's with all the copy and paste links?

biko

I hope information is acceptable
Feel free to share if you have some of your own.

cryptocurrency

biko wrote: »

Considering that 3 million Hong Kong residents could potentially move to UK, we'll see.


But the offer is for older people that also can afford to relocate.

https://apnews.com/article/38f3a51196efb8450e1207d971c55516

I better revise my guesstimation down

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Don't think the numbers will be as high as they think. I can see a number of the low skilled poor folk frustrated by housing and maybe one or two high profile ones who are fleeing because they really have some shady business deals to get away from and the loot. Usual stuff.

Can see the disaster stories in a few years too. Isn't one of the first to come, a high profile protester, living on the streets for months now.

I think the UK will also freeze up when they realise the array of wealthy, highly connected, Chinese that will have insider links to the mammoth economic growth in the region hasn't materialised.

Who are you on about here?

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Doubt the highly skilled will come. If they have skills they will either have ample reason to stay or options like Singapore are viable alternatives. What reason would they pick the UK if they are highly skilled and highly mobile. Traditionally Chinese migrants a long time back were very poor Cantonese and most of the mainland students these days return home as they have more options.

There will be a mix of Hong Kongers who want to go to the UK. The idea that they'll all be highly qualified, wealthy immigrants is a fantasy. But equally, it's ridiculous to think that highly skilled people in HK don't see the UK as an attractive option. Singapore isn't a consideration for most HK people looking to leave; the UK and Canada are basically the top 2 for most people.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

There will be a mix of Hong Kongers who want to go to the UK. The idea that they'll all be highly qualified, wealthy immigrants is a fantasy. But equally, it's ridiculous to think that highly skilled people in HK don't see the UK as an attractive option. Singapore isn't a consideration for most HK people looking to leave; the UK and Canada are basically the top 2 for most people.

Those looking to leave.

As I said, there may be some dodgy businessmen but the rest will be mostly those with little or no skills. The fairly upper-middle class skilled folk are not likely to come as they would really cut their earning potential in the UK. They would be a complete disadvantage in the UK employment market.

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Those looking to leave.

As I said, there may be some dodgy businessmen but the rest will be mostly those with little or no skills. The fairly upper-middle class skilled folk are not likely to come as they would really cut their earning potential in the UK. They would be a complete disadvantage in the UK employment market.

Not likely to come? What are you basing this on?


People in HK who are very "yellow" (i.e. pro-protest movement) are aware of your point (that they will not earn the same in the UK). But it's not only "dodgy businessmen", which is an odd slur to be using here. I personally quite a few families who have gone already.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Not likely to come? What are you basing this on?


People in HK who are very "yellow" (i.e. pro-protest movement) are aware of your point (that they will not earn the same in the UK). But it's not only "dodgy businessmen", which is an odd slur to be using here. I personally quite a few families who have gone already.

So little have moved and you know a quite a few families. You must be right in the centre of some yellow circles.

The big problem in HK is property. If they sort out that, which is very much against the interest of some very powerful figures in HK, then I can see things calm right down now. I can see why some would have some fears that to stabilise the place there will added pressure to resolve the property issues. It is quite clear that the average resident of Shenzhen has far more opportunity to get a more spacious property and make a better life than the average joe in Hong Kong. That is where the problem lies.

There is a mixture of jealously and bitterness about all this in Hong Kong in the Yellow protest gang as they have been to referred too here.

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

So little have moved and you know a quite a few families. You must be right in the centre of some yellow circles.

The big problem in HK is property. If they sort out that, which is very much against the interest of some very powerful figures in HK, then I can see things calm right down now. I can see why some would have some fears that to stabilise the place there will added pressure to resolve the property issues. It is quite clear that the average resident of Shenzhen has far more opportunity to get a more spacious property and make a better life than the average joe in Hong Kong. That is where the problem lies.

There is a mixture of jealously and bitterness about all this in Hong Kong in the Yellow protest gang as they have been to referred too here.

Sorry, what do you mean by this? The majority of people in HK would be "yellow", it was/is a very well supported protest movement. And the people moving to the UK because they are concerned about the political environment in HK will be almost exclusively pro-protest. Maybe you think you're being snarky and smart with your "right in the centre of some yellow circles" comment, but it just shows how little you seem to actually know about Hong Kong.


Your comments about the "yellow protest gang" are incredibly ignorant. Maybe you haven't heard the term before, and that's grand. But it's not just how I'm referring to them, have a read of yellow vs blue in Hong Kong if you like. The price of property is a real issue in Hong Kong, and how the government doesn't look after its poorest citizens. But that's not what the protests were about.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Sorry, what do you mean by this? The majority of people in HK would be "yellow", it was/is a very well supported protest movement. And the people moving to the UK because they are concerned about the political environment in HK will be almost exclusively pro-protest. Maybe you think you're being snarky and smart with your "right in the centre of some yellow circles" comment, but it just shows how little you seem to actually know about Hong Kong.


Your comments about the "yellow protest gang" are incredibly ignorant. Maybe you haven't heard the term before, and that's grand. But it's not just how I'm referring to them, have a read of yellow vs blue in Hong Kong if you like. The price of property is a real issue in Hong Kong, and how the government doesn't look after its poorest citizens. But that's not what the protests were about.

It isn't the majority, it is far from it.

There was many more who were strongly against the protests. Also, what do they seriously expected to be achieved?

HK is China, there is no question on that. If you start digging into the historical deals then you could argue that HK island was signed over to the British completely and the New Territories were leased and now have been returned and are legally fully part of China, under any agreement. If the UK want to contest any agreement made with China on HK island has been broken then go ahead. You will find an island with a population of around 50000 per sq km, no airport and many other key services and surrounded by one of the worlds two biggest and powerful nations on earth. I really don't see what the end game is here for the protestors. HK Island, without the New Territoires, where it is, is pretty inhabitable.

HK's position as a financial hub is geographical and without a good relationship with China is doesn't have that much going for it. Shenzhen, with it's 11m people, now has a bigger economy than Denmark and step in to cover many of HKs functions.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The price of property is a real issue in Hong Kong, and how the government doesn't look after its poorest citizens. But that's not what the protests were about.

You do know housing reform and the extensive building is blocked by old school, HK Real estate magnets. I can see the next big crisis is when China is forced to do something to resolved to housing crisis then the next big battle commences. The magnets go to legal war, eventually lose, and the media paints it as some sort of commie shakedown. That is when you may see some BNO high flyers flee to London, where they will start to attack China from there. They will do that to keep the profile up and the spotlight off their dealings. Think Russians in London or Guo Wengui, Steve Bannon's buddy.

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It isn't the majority, it is far from it.

There was many more who were strongly against the protests. Also, what do they seriously expected to be achieved?

This is just rubbish, pure and simple. The district council elections in 2019 (pro-Dem candidates won in a landslide) and the cancellation of the 2020 Legco elections (and disqualification of most pro-Dem candidates) show this clearly. How can you possibly claim that it's far from a majority of Hong Kongers who supported the protests? What are you basing that on?

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You do know housing reform and the extensive building is blocked by old school, HK Real estate magnets. I can see the next big crisis is when China is forced to do something to resolved to housing crisis then the next big battle commences. The magnets go to legal war, eventually lose, and the media paints it as some sort of commie shakedown. That is when you may see some BNO high flyers flee to London, where they will start to attack China from there. They will do that to keep the profile up and the spotlight off their dealings. Think Russians in London or Guo Wengui, Steve Bannon's buddy.

The protests were not about housing. Are you implying that real estate magnates fostered the protests? The business community in HK is massively pro-Beijing, by and large.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The protests were not about housing. Are you implying that real estate magnates fostered the protests? The business community in HK is massively pro-Beijing, by and large.

No, I am stating that wealthy real estate magnets and landowners blocked any meaningful reform on housing which would have worked as a pressure relief vale on the protests.

And yes, sort housing out and your Yellow band protestors become just a small group trying to make lots of noise through NGO funding while the rest get back to making money.

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No, I am stating that wealthy real estate magnets and landowners blocked any meaningful reform on housing which would have worked as a pressure relief vale on the protests.

And yes, sort housing out and your Yellow band protestors become just a small group trying to make lots of noise through NGO funding while the rest get back to making money.

Blocked reform on housing? :rolleyes:

The HKSAR government has no interest in reforming housing. It's a racket between real estate developers and that very government. A government which is backed by Beijing, and a government which the protests opposed. You mention landowners; the HK Government is by far the biggest landowner in the HKSAR.

What do you mean by "NGO funding" in relation to protestors, incidentally?

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Blocked reform on housing? :rolleyes:

The HKSAR government has no interest in reforming housing. It's a racket between real estate developers and that very government. A government which is backed by Beijing, and a government which the protests opposed. You mention landowners; the HK Government is by far the biggest landowner in the HKSAR.

What do you mean by "NGO funding" in relation to protestors, incidentally?

It was reformed from Beijing that was lobbied against by the interests of the old landowning cabal. If they ever do go in to resolve it, which I believe they will, it will be sold here as communist asset confiscation. You remember that when it starts to happen.

dwayneshintzy

The landowning cabal are pro-Beijing. They are not the protestors.

I'd really question how much you actually know about Hong Kong based on your posts. It seems mostly half baked conspiracies.

biko

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The landowning cabal are pro-Beijing. They are not the protestors.

I'd really question how much you actually know about Hong Kong based on your posts. It seems mostly half baked conspiracies.

I'd be more inclined to trust your comments if you backed up with some sources.

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah I know, the Brexit lads won't like it.

I think this is exactly what "Brexit lads" would love. Educated, peaceful, productive, hard working immigrants from a similar capitalist democracy with a historical connection to the UK, with English lanuguage skills. These are the type of immigrants any country would love.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this is exactly what "Brexit lads" would love. Educated, peaceful, productive, hard working immigrants from a similar capitalist democracy with a historical connection to the UK, with English lanuguage skills. These are the type of immigrants any country would love.

That is the kinda delusion so many. The HKers they want aren't coming.

lucernarian

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It isn't the majority, it is far from it.

There was many more who were strongly against the protests. Also, what do they seriously expected to be achieved?

HK is China, there is no question on that. If you start digging into the historical deals then you could argue that HK island was signed over to the British completely and the New Territories were leased and now have been returned and are legally fully part of China, under any agreement. If the UK want to contest any agreement made with China on HK island has been broken then go ahead. You will find an island with a population of around 50000 per sq km, no airport and many other key services and surrounded by one of the worlds two biggest and powerful nations on earth. I really don't see what the end game is here for the protestors. HK Island, without the New Territoires, where it is, is pretty inhabitable.

HK's position as a financial hub is geographical and without a good relationship with China is doesn't have that much going for it. Shenzhen, with it's 11m people, now has a bigger economy than Denmark and step in to cover many of HKs functions.

This is literally copy pasted CCP policy on Hong Kong.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The landowning cabal are pro-Beijing. They are not the protestors.

I'd really question how much you actually know about Hong Kong based on your posts. It seems mostly half baked conspiracies.

No, not at all. The landowning class are the HK established class, who fear a creeping force against their monopoly on the place. You have a very blue peter view of HK. Beijing just wants stability there and that means housing reform. HK is not that important and is less so as the rest of China develops.

We should do a year on year chart of Shenzhen v Hong Kong 2000 to date. You will get the picture.

The HK the western romantics dream off is gone, it can never return. The HK being richer, bigger and more powerful then east Asian rival cities is gone too, never to return.

Someone needs to sit the Yellow flag crowd down and talk to them like grown-ups. Explain it slowly. All the tantrums in the world won't have you ever retuning to the days where they took a snobish pride out of being Chinese from HK while their mainland brothers lived in Maoist poverty.

The will have to get used to mainlanders coming to HK, shopping, being able to buy and sell on wealth terms and then shoot off back to Shanghai/Beijing/Suzhou etc. after a few days

cryptocurrency

lucernarian wrote: »

This is literally copy pasted CCP policy on Hong Kong.

Link? Where, because you don't like the facts?

lucernarian

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Link? Where, because you don't like the facts?

The facts lol, brought to you by the Chinese Communist Party

Edit: I'm curious as to what your background is, with the terminology and "mainlanders" etc. The only people I've ever heard say "they better get used to mainlanders visiting Hong Kong" are indignant CCP supporters from the "people's" Republic. Just my 2c of course.

biko

cryptocurrency wrote: »

That is the kinda delusion so many. The HKers they want aren't coming.

How do you know?

Who do you envision coming to UK from HK?

Hong Kongers already in the UK who are involved in helping others relocate say many of the early applicants tend to be educated middle-class people, often with young families, who have enough liquidity to finance their move. SRC
This confirms what I said in an earlier post and is just logical.



Here is one family that have made the journey (anecdotal I know).
The dad works remotely for a Chinese electronics company based in Shenzhen, the Chinese city just over the border from Hong Kong.
SRC
"There is a certain number of people who do not want to leave, particularly the young. They would rather die in Hong Kong," said Mr Lo.
"I have a lot of clients who fight with their kids because the children don't want to emigrate. They say: 'Why should I leave? I should try my best to change this place'."

Marcos

Well in the 80's the Thatcher government was looking at settling a load of Hong Kongers in Derry where they could also set up their own city. A Foreign Office report stated that:

A huge influx of Chinese nationals from Hong Kong would contribute to a political settlement in the North ‘by greatly outnumbering the acrimonious nationalist and unionist populations.

But calling it The Replantation of Northern Ireland From Hong Kong wasn't the best idea. :eek:

Anyway, a version of this plan resurfaced last year with Ivan Keo of the Victoria Harbour Group pushing the idea of building a new city south of Dundalk.

Mr Keo’s basic requirement is that the city must be close to motorways, seaport and airports and, so far, Dundalk seems to be the most attractive option for his new urban settlement -largely because of its location, midway between Belfast and Dublin.

Of course, the Chinese immigrants who would live in this new, semi-independent international / Irish city would have to be seriously wealthy, motived by business interests and keen to stay out of Communist China’s clutches.

According to Ivan Keo, about 15,000 Hong Kong residents are prepared to make the move to Ireland and he says that, after 20 years, around 100,000 people would be living in a new Irish city.
The penny also is dropping that should Hong Kong come under a hard-line Chinese regime, a sharp increase in the number of wealthy Chinese seeking a home in this country is very likely.

Which, in turn, raises this question: what if there’s a mass movement of thousands of Hong Kong people seeking a new life here, and not only the super-rich? Would Ireland encourage such a development?

Independent of the Keo plan, Chinese nationals have been expressing an interest in living in Ireland and auctioneers have commented on the small but growing number of Hong Kongers purchasing top-of-the-range luxury homes in this country.

Many of these people, of course, would not be refugees in the strict sense of the word, but wealthy Hong Kongers who have the cash to put down roots in this country.

I don't know if it'll ever get off the ground, but someone's flying a kite here.

dwayneshintzy

biko wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to trust your comments if you backed up with some sources.

Well "land owning cabal" isn't the words I would have used, as I was quoting another poster. But sure, here's some links;


Raymond Kwok, director of Sun Hung Kai Properties, is a member of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference


Li Ka Shing in favour of National Security Law


Significant donations to Carrie Lam, including from Lee Shau Kee


Article on developers opposed to protests

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No, not at all. The landowning class are the HK established class, who fear a creeping force against their monopoly on the place. You have a very blue peter view of HK. Beijing just wants stability there and that means housing reform. HK is not that important and is less so as the rest of China develops.

We should do a year on year chart of Shenzhen v Hong Kong 2000 to date. You will get the picture.

The HK the western romantics dream off is gone, it can never return. The HK being richer, bigger and more powerful then east Asian rival cities is gone too, never to return.

Someone needs to sit the Yellow flag crowd down and talk to them like grown-ups. Explain it slowly. All the tantrums in the world won't have you ever retuning to the days where they took a snobish pride out of being Chinese from HK while their mainland brothers lived in Maoist poverty.

The will have to get used to mainlanders coming to HK, shopping, being able to buy and sell on wealth terms and then shoot off back to Shanghai/Beijing/Suzhou etc. after a few days

What does a "blue peter view" of Hong Kong mean? I've lived here for 6 years. Your view on protestors is indistinguishable from Beijing propaganda; how many Hong Kongers do you actually know? You're making sweeping statements and I'd love to know what you'd back them up on.


You said earlier that "far from the majority" supported the protests. How can you possibly make that claim?

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

What does a "blue peter view" of Hong Kong mean? I've lived here for 6 years. Your view on protestors is indistinguishable from Beijing propaganda; how many Hong Kongers do you actually know? You're making sweeping statements and I'd love to know what you'd back them up on.


You said earlier that "far from the majority" supported the protests. How can you possibly make that claim?

Because if you lived there you'd know. Wouldn't you?

If you do live there, please enlighten us what you think they want, as a majority, and where do they see as an end game or where they want HK to be in?

Come on, this will be good..

dwayneshintzy

Are you saying the Five Demands are bollocks, or are you just not familiar with them?

1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill
2. Retraction of the characterisation of the 12 June 2019 protests as "riots"
3. Release and exoneration of arrested protesters
4. Establishment of an independent commission of inquiry into police behaviour
5. Resignation of Carrie Lam and universal suffrage for the Legislative Council and the chief executive elections

Have a look at the District Council elections in 2019 in the wake of the protests; Link

Are you telling me that those results don't show a majority in favour of the protest movement? What do they show, then?

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

That is a letter from the UK foreign secretary to the UK home secretary at the time with a copy going to Maggie who was PM. This isn't low-level stuff.

Other way round ... it's from the Home Secretary to the Foreign Secretary.

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Are you saying the Five Demands are bollocks, or are you just not familiar with them?

1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill
2. Retraction of the characterisation of the 12 June 2019 protests as "riots"
3. Release and exoneration of arrested protesters
4. Establishment of an independent commission of inquiry into police behaviour
5. Resignation of Carrie Lam and universal suffrage for the Legislative Council and the chief executive elections

Have a look at the District Council elections in 2019 in the wake of the protests; Link

Are you telling me that those results don't show a majority in favour of the protest movement? What do they show, then?

The 5 points are very vague.

HK is part of China, it is perfectly normal for parts of the same country to have such treaties. The only way for them to refuse to have such a deal is if HK was not part of China and that is not a serious idea.

If HK was independent, are you talking HK island or do they expect the leased new territories to be seized from China too? How do you propose to work?
So independence and land grab from their giant powerful new neighbour too.
I say independence as complete universal suffrage will require a complete and independent disconnect from the PRC, even from being a SAR, if not you will always have a governor appointed by the head state, which is the PRC.

So there you are all now, on your little independent island, surrounded by a giant, all around you. 50000 people per sq km, no airport, a shot economy and no preferable trade access to the giant PRC economy. Massive capital flight. You've lost the support of the police force.

What then? What will these newly elected officials do on day one with their released protestors, no police, no airport and the new east Asia Gaza strip...what's the plan? Call Unicef? Who else?

cryptocurrency

b0nk1e wrote: »

Other way round ... it's from the Home Secretary to the Foreign Secretary.

Sorry yes, of course, it would be the home secretary sending the message to the top foreign diplomat to make sure none of those Chinese manages to get back to the UK.

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The 5 points are very vague.

HK is part of China, it is perfectly normal for parts of the same country to have such treaties. The only way for them to refuse to have such a deal is if HK was not part of China and that is not a serious idea.

If HK was independent, are you talking HK island or do they expect the leased new territories to be seized from China too? How do you propose to work?
So independence and land grab from their giant powerful new neighbour too.
I say independence as complete universal suffrage will require a complete and independent disconnect from the PRC, even from being a SAR, if not you will always have a governor appointed by the head state, which is the PRC.

So there you are all now, on your little independent island, surrounded by a giant, all around you. 50000 people per sq km, no airport, a shot economy and no preferable trade access to the giant PRC economy. Massive capital flight. You've lost the support of the police force.

What then? What will these newly elected officials do on day one with their released protestors, no police, no airport and the new east Asia Gaza strip...what's the plan? Call Unicef? Who else?

Vague, are you for real?!?! And why are you talking about independence? Not a single one of those demands includes independence.

The governor appointed by the head state? Are you aware of who the Chief Executive is, how they're elected, or what they do? Because it doesn't seem like you are. Are you familiar with LegCo and functional constituencies? Because it doesn't seem like you are.

You've built up a massive straw man here, I have not mentioned independence and the vast, VAST majority of Hong Kongers do not advocate independence (one reason being that it's literally illegal to even mention it now).

lucernarian

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

What does a "blue peter view" of Hong Kong mean? I've lived here for 6 years. Your view on protestors is indistinguishable from Beijing propaganda; how many Hong Kongers do you actually know? You're making sweeping statements and I'd love to know what you'd back them up on.


You said earlier that "far from the majority" supported the protests. How can you possibly make that claim?

I'm not sure there's any point engaging with any CCP propaganda merchants - the more you provide the 50 cent army with rebuttals, the more they learn how to counteract them in future "discussions". The arrogance of their distorted world view they purvey is supreme. You can see it in the English news articles from Xinhua and Global Times, and they show up more and more on social media and discussion forums...

cryptocurrency

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Vague, are you for real?!?! And why are you talking about independence? Not a single one of those demands includes independence.

The governor appointed by the head state? Are you aware of who the Chief Executive is, how they're elected, or what they do? Because it doesn't seem like you are. Are you familiar with LegCo and functional constituencies? Because it doesn't seem like you are.

You've built up a massive straw man here, I have not mentioned independence and the vast, VAST majority of Hong Kongers do not advocate independence (one reason being that it's literally illegal to even mention it now).

Ok, so you expect a chief executive to be potentially antagonistic to Beijing if that is what is elected. How do you think that will work out? How do you expect it too?

dwayneshintzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Ok, so you expect a chief executive to be potentially antagonistic to Beijing if that is what is elected. How do you think that will work out? How do you expect it too?

I haven't said I expected anything. You asked what the protestors were protesting about, as if it wasn't clear. And then laughably claimed that their demands are "vague".


Any Chief Executive would be bound to the Basic Law, and that's before even a consideration that someone who's antagonistic to Beijing would be elected. But if we're going to be asking questions here; do you believe that Carrie Lam is in any way a fit leader?

dwayneshintzy

lucernarian wrote: »

I'm not sure there's any point engaging with any CCP propaganda merchants - the more you provide the 50 cent army with rebuttals, the more they learn how to counteract them in future "discussions". The arrogance of their distorted world view they purvey is supreme. You can see it in the English news articles from Xinhua and Global Times, and they show up more and more on social media and discussion forums...

Maybe true, though I don't that many of them will have ended up on boards.ie. I just think that there are plenty of people in Ireland and elsewhere who are willing to buy the CCP line when it comes to Hong Kong.....they'll often support Putin as well, and will see the CIA as being behind every single anti-authoritarian protest in the world.