Running electricity from a mobile home park!

salad17

I run a small business from a lorry very near a mobile home park. We would like to get electricity but don't want the constant noise of a generator, and batteries won't provide enough power.

I am thinking of asking the mobile home park if it would be possible to run a power line from there. Surely he's already set up for that sort of thing, with different meters for the different owners etc.

Would this be possible, and what would it involve in terms of installation? It also crosses a cul de sac road. As in we are the other side of the road from the mobile home park. Could I have an engineer install a cable above the road?

Malcomex

If you mean connect to their installation

They'll refuse

salad17

Yes that's what I mean. How come?

I assume as a mobile unit/no bricks and mortar, that it would be the only way for us to connect up to mains.

Snotty

What's in it for the park owner?

I would think getting the ESB to install a line for yourself would be cheaper in the long run and no reliance on someone who could cut your power off at the drop of a hat.

Padre_Pio

salad17 wrote: »

Yes that's what I mean. How come?

I assume as a mobile unit/no bricks and mortar, that it would be the only way for us to connect up to mains.

No harm in asking.

Some issues.
1. What's the expected load?
Camp sites usually limit power to a few amps to every caravan and trailer. Hardly enough for a hairdryer and an electric heater.

2. What's the distance? Anything over 50 metres and you're going to face some bother.

3. I don't think you can run power over a public road. Probably need planning or ESB to come out.

4. Who's paying for the installation and upkeep?

5. Do you need access to his fuseboard if the switch trips?

6. Does he cut off power in the off season?

7. What's in it for him, other than some cash up front, then chasing you to pay the ESB bill.

elperello

Crossing a road is a non-starter.

Modern generators especially the Honda range are fairly quiet.

salad17

Padre_Pio wrote: »

No harm in asking.

Some issues.
1. What's the expected load?
Camp sites usually limit power to a few amps to every caravan and trailer. Hardly enough for a hairdryer and an electric heater.

About 3-4k watts at max. It's for a coffee machine set up.

2. What's the distance? Anything over 50 metres and you're going to face some bother.

Probably about 30 metres

3. I don't think you can run power over a public road. Probably need planning or ESB to come out.


4. Who's paying for the installation and upkeep?

We would

5. Do you need access to his fuseboard if the switch trips?

Yes I guess so

6. Does he cut off power in the off season?

Interesting, I hadn't considered this.

7. What's in it for him, other than some cash up front, then chasing you to pay the ESB bill.

Other than a payment, they are very supportive of our business as we serve his customers in the mobile home park a lot.

salad17

Snotty wrote: »

What's in it for the park owner?

I would think getting the ESB to install a line for yourself would be cheaper in the long run and no reliance on someone who could cut your power off at the drop of a hat.

Is this a possibility? To install a line for a mobile vehicle? I mean we don't plan to move it at all, but still.

Padre_Pio

salad17 wrote: »

Is this a possibility? To install a line for a mobile vehicle? I mean we don't plan to move it at all, but still.

ESB charge about 2k for a connection I think, but they won't do it for a mobile vehicle.

Tap into the nearest streetlight

Malcomex

Malcomex wrote: »

If you mean connect to their installation

They'll refuse

Nothing in for them

They'll be contracted to you for little gain

You'll be taking some of their supply capacity

Possible insurance implications?

salad17

Malcomex wrote: »

Nothing in for them

They'll be contracted to you for little gain

You'll be taking some of their supply capacity

Possible insurance implications?

Well I wouldn't mind paying them on top of the electricity and installation.

Snotty

salad17 wrote: »

Is this a possibility? To install a line for a mobile vehicle? I mean we don't plan to move it at all, but still.

oh missed the "lorry" part of your OP.
Moving the lorry to be closer to a power source would be ideal, if you have a good relationship with the site owner, would that be a possibility?

Failing that, invest in a good generator, its really the most practical solution and completely mobile which you may be thankful of in the future.

salad17

Padre_Pio wrote: »

ESB charge about 2k for a connection I think, but they won't do it for a mobile vehicle.

Tap into the nearest streetlight

Damn, I thought so, that would have been too ideal.

salad17

Snotty wrote: »

oh missed the "lorry" part of your OP.
Moving the lorry to be closer to a power source would be ideal, if you have a good relationship with the site owner, would that be a possibility?

Failing that, invest in a good generator, its really the most practical solution and completely mobile which you may be thankful of in the future.

We're on a very set location as we're right by the beach and we run activities from there so couldn't really move.

I guess I need to find someone who has a good generator and see how quiet they actually are.

Any recommendations for generators? This is a beach location so really don't want to disturb it with the constant hum of a generator!

Padre_Pio

salad17 wrote: »

We're on a very set location as we're right by the beach and we run activities from there so couldn't really move.

I guess I need to find someone who has a good generator and see how quiet they actually are.

Any recommendations for generators? This is a beach location so really don't want to disturb it with the constant hum of a generator!

You can get quiet ones from Honda and they're usually marketed with a dB rating. You could also make a vented box with insulation to deaden the sound. Just have holes for air in and exhaust.
It would be important to spec the output that meets all your needs. So for your 4kW, you'd probably buy a 6kW just to have some overhead.
Might cost 10-15euro a day in diesel.

It's a pain, but it's the only thing I've seen most people use. Be worth looking at food trucks to see how they operate and what generators they use.

The road is what kills getting mains. I'm sure there are laws to stop people stringing power lines across roads.

Henry Ford III

Would a high capacity battery that you recharge nightly be of any use?

salad17

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Would a high capacity battery that you recharge nightly be of any use?

The original plan was to run off a bank of leisure batteries, but the more I looked into it the more it seemed impractical for those levels of power needs.

It is suggested as a method for small coffee karts, but even with a smaller machine in practice I couldn't find anyone who did it successfully.

JamesM

A modern generator in a sound insulated box will be a lot cheaper. It can also run from a gas bottle, no messing with smelly petrol. I have a Honda EU2000i which cost just over €1000.00, running on gas.

Padre_Pio

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Would a high capacity battery that you recharge nightly be of any use?

Say you're running 3kW throughout the day (which might be accurate if you're constantly boiling water, steaming milk, lights, refrigerator, maybe a heater etc. )

8 hours is 24kW, which is a Nissan Leaf battery.

Actually not a bad idea if you were planning on buying an EV in the future! Some of them have mains plugs!

JamesM wrote: »

A modern generator in a sound insulated box will be a lot cheaper. It can also run from a gas bottle, no messing with smelly petrol. I have a Honda EU2000i which cost just over €1000.00, running on gas.

That's another option. You can parallel those generators, so you can save fuel.

salad17

JamesM wrote: »

A modern generator in a sound insulated box will be a lot cheaper. It can also run from a gas bottle, no messing with smelly petrol. I have a Honda EU2000i which cost just over €1000.00, running on gas.

Ok thanks, I had a look at them and they don't seem to mention running off gas?

How quiet is it? Hah, not really an easy question to answer, I can see the decibel rating but what does that actually sound like?

salad17

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Say you're running 3kW throughout the day (which might be accurate if you're constantly boiling water, steaming milk, lights, refrigerator, maybe a heater etc. )

8 hours is 24kW, which is a Nissan Leaf battery.

Actually not a bad idea if you were planning on buying an EV in the future! Some of them have mains plugs!



That's another option. You can parallel those generators, so you can save fuel.

Oh I thought he meant leisure batteries, which is what I've looked into. I have no idea about electric car batteries?

As in have 2 generators in parallel? Or do you mean combine with a battery?

It seems that two generators might be needed anyway, since the smaller ones seem to be the super quiet ones whereas the bigger ones don't seem to do that. Though is 2 generators twice the decibels?!

2011

I would power efficient LED lights from the lorry and would use a gas stove to make coffee. Simple, quick, reliable and cost effective.

This avoids the requirement for a generator, a supply from across the road or a new supply from the ESB.

Malcomex

2011 wrote: »

I would power efficient LED lights from the lorry and would use a gas stove to make coffee. Simple, quick, reliable and cost effective.

This avoids the requirement for a generator, a supply from across the road or a new supply from the ESB.

Good point and likely best solution here

Surely all this catering equipment is available in gas versions, presumably propane?

Lewis_Benson

All I can hear in my head reading this thread is yer man Fr Purcell from the father Ted episode where they raffled the car.

"We run the electricity off the gas, and the gas off the electricity, and we saved 200 pounds"

2011

Malcomex wrote: »

Good point and likely best solution here

Surely all this catering equipment is available in gas versions, presumably propane?

There are lots of ways to make really good coffee without electricity.
Personally I use a “moka pot”.

salad17

2011 wrote: »

There are lots of ways to make really good coffee without electricity.
Personally I use a “moka pot”.

This is for a coffee shop though, we may be doing 60-100 coffee per hour at peak!

Malcomex

salad17 wrote: »

This is for a coffee shop though, we may be doing 60-100 coffee per hour at peak!

Have you thought about gas then?

I don't believe 2011 was suggesting a moka pot for your operation

2011

salad17 wrote: »

This is for a coffee shop though, we may be doing 60-100 coffee per hour at peak!

Not a problem here is a commercial machine that works off LPG and a 12V battery:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobcater.com/product-category/beverage-machines/coffee-machines/amp/

Padre_Pio

2011 wrote: »

Not a problem here is a commercial machine that works off LPG and a 12V battery:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobcater.com/product-category/beverage-machines/coffee-machines/amp/

Cool.

that might cover the bulk of your energy usage. Run the rest of a small jenny and you're sorted.

2011

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Cool.

that might cover the bulk of your energy usage. Run the rest of a small jenny and you're sorted.

Personally I would avoid a generator if possible. I would expect that the 12V supply would be a very small load for electronic and ignition purposes only. If the machine was struggling to meet demand I would purchase a second machine. Keep it simple.

Padre_Pio

2011 wrote: »

Personally I would avoid a generator if possible. I would expect that the 12V supply would be a very small load for electronic and ignition purposes only. If the machine was struggling to meet demand I would purchase a second machine. Keep it simple.

I mean jenny for lights, fridge, other appliances etc etc.

Cheaper than a 12V battery alternative.

salad17

Malcomex wrote: »

Have you thought about gas then?

I don't believe 2011 was suggesting a moka pot for your operation

I had looked at some combi machines, someone recommended CIME, but the wattage didn't seem to come down by much.

Hmm to be honest I hadn't looked into fully gas machines. I don't know much about them but I'll check them out for sure.

If they're as good/easy to use then I would have thought more mobile coffee shops would use them but most seem to have generators or some sort of hookup.

Ubbquittious

I dont see the big problem with getting it off the mobile home site.

Few 100 quid for materials, small din enclosure, meter, blue socket mounted on a little pillar in a convenient location just inside the mobile home park

If the road isnt busy and traffic is slow you caan get a rubber mat to hide the wire underneath while thee van is in use. If it was my mobile home park I wouldn't have a problem with it provided I didn't have to pay for it

Hmob

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I dont see the big problem with getting it off the mobile home site.

Few 100 quid for materials, small din enclosure, meter, blue socket mounted on a little pillar in a convenient location just inside the mobile home park

If the road isnt busy and traffic is slow you caan get a rubber mat to hide the wire underneath while thee van is in use. If it was my mobile home park I wouldn't have a problem with it provided I didn't have to pay for it

Not really

That's why installations get their own supply.

2011

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I dont see the big problem with getting it off the mobile home site.

Not that straight forward.

Few 100 quid for materials, small din enclosure, meter, blue socket mounted on a little pillar in a convenient location just inside the mobile home park

It will certainly cost more than "a few 100 quid", labour is required as well.

If the road isnt busy and traffic is slow you caan get a rubber mat to hide the wire underneath while thee van is in use.

:eek:

2011

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I mean jenny for lights, fridge, other appliances etc etc.

Cheaper than a 12V battery alternative.

You could use a gas powered fridge. LED lights consume very little power. You could use a small generator but if it were me I wouldn't. Keep it simple would be my advice.

What "other appliances"?

Gas fridges are woeful. 10X less efficient than a compressor electric, usually 10x more expensive and 10x less reliable.

I disagree that a gene is cheaper than alternatives.

Hmob

From my limited experience has cookou equipment gives less trouble than electric

Ubbquittious

2011 wrote: »

Not that straight forward.




It will certainly cost more than "a few 100 quid", labour is required as well.



:eek:

Still cheaper than Jenny + Fuel


https://www.pittman.ie/cable-protectors/cable-tidy/cable-ramp.html

elperello

The OP said the road is a cul-de-sac which implies that it is public.

On the other hand it may be a private road owned by the mobile home park.

If it is public laying a cable on the surface is a non starter.

Hmob

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Still cheaper than Jenny + Fuel


https://www.pittman.ie/cable-protectors/cable-tidy/cable-ramp.html

Cheaper for the truck owner

Would be of little interest to the business owner supplying electricity like this

Now if the truck owner was to give a 20% stake in his business as an incentive to supply electricity , that might be a different story

2011

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Still cheaper than Jenny + Fuel


https://www.pittman.ie/cable-protectors/cable-tidy/cable-ramp.html

Yes, but unfortunately not a legal or safe long term solution.

Ubbquittious

Hmob wrote: »

Cheaper for the truck owner

Would be of little interest to the business owner supplying electricity like this

Now if the truck owner was to give a 20% stake in his business as an incentive to supply electricity , that might be a different story

If you started giving away 20% of your business for a tiny bit of power you won't stay in business for long. It will cost nothing for OP to ask. Park owner might provide for a reasonable fee and connecting the cable might be very simple after. I would chance my arm anyway before spending 1000s on fecking LPG coffee machines. We dunno exactly where this camp site is and how long the cable needs to be or how busy that road is. We'll be only going around in circles

Ubbquittious

2011 wrote: »

Yes, but unfortunately not a legal or safe long term solution.

If its the camp site I'm thinking of you'd be grand with that setup but every place is different

Hmob

Let the trucker get a quote from ESBN for a connection

Show that to the park owner and pay that amount to the park owner for his connection

Trucker gets a REC out and gets his installation ready then for connection to the park

He'll soon start losing interest in connecting to the park


***Assuming a supply can be ran which seems unlikely

salad17

Sorry for the lack of reply, I didn't see the notifications!

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I dont see the big problem with getting it off the mobile home site.

Few 100 quid for materials, small din enclosure, meter, blue socket mounted on a little pillar in a convenient location just inside the mobile home park

If the road isnt busy and traffic is slow you caan get a rubber mat to hide the wire underneath while thee van is in use. If it was my mobile home park I wouldn't have a problem with it provided I didn't have to pay for it

Yes, this is what I was assuming/hoping for at the start, but had pretty much resigned to generator after this thread! It's definitely worth asking though, so I'll check it out with the trailer park owner.

salad17

2011 wrote: »

You could use a gas powered fridge. LED lights consume very little power. You could use a small generator but if it were me I wouldn't. Keep it simple would be my advice.

What "other appliances"?

So it would be the coffee machine (looking at 3000W duel fuel) the grinder (250watts), baby burco boiler, water pump, and either fridge or cooler.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Gas fridges are woeful. 10X less efficient than a compressor electric, usually 10x more expensive and 10x less reliable.

I disagree that a gene is cheaper than alternatives.

So if gas is woeful, genny isn't cheaper, then what alternative do you suggest?

Or am I misreading that and you're saying the genny IS cheaper?

elperello wrote: »

The OP said the road is a cul-de-sac which implies that it is public.

On the other hand it may be a private road owned by the mobile home park.

If it is public laying a cable on the surface is a non starter.

It is a public cul de sac down to a small public beach carpark.

Hmob wrote: »

Cheaper for the truck owner

Would be of little interest to the business owner supplying electricity like this

Now if the truck owner was to give a 20% stake in his business as an incentive to supply electricity , that might be a different story

If it were me, I would definitely be willing to help out other small business owners like this, even if there wasn't a massive benefit in it for me.

But as for giving 20% of my business, not a hope! I work very hard to keep my business going by learning how to do as much as possible myself, everything from designing and building my website, doing my own accounting, marketing, admin, building the coffee station, welding and woodwork as well as teaching the activities. Along with my business partner. And we employ other instructors and will employ people to serve coffee. But we keep our business afloat by working our asses off and not paying other people to do the hard jobs for us, I'm not about to throw 20% away for an electric cable!

salad17

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If you started giving away 20% of your business for a tiny bit of power you won't stay in business for long. It will cost nothing for OP to ask. Park owner might provide for a reasonable fee and connecting the cable might be very simple after. I would chance my arm anyway before spending 1000s on fecking LPG coffee machines. We dunno exactly where this camp site is and how long the cable needs to be or how busy that road is. We'll be only going around in circles

I think you're right, definitely worth asking. Road is pretty busy in the summer, but slow moving traffic. About 100metres from the truck to the central office of the campsite.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If its the camp site I'm thinking of you'd be grand with that setup but every place is different

Which campsite are you thinking of?

elperello

salad17 wrote: »

It is a public cul de sac down to a small public beach carpark.

salad17 wrote: »

I think you're right, definitely worth asking. Road is pretty busy in the summer, but slow moving traffic. About 100metres from the truck to the central office of the campsite.

Thanks for the reply.

Your post confirms that the road is public.

There is no way you will get permission to put a live cable across a public road.

The local authority will not allow it.

My advice is to forget it and concentrate on other options.

2011

salad17 wrote: »

So it would be the coffee machine (looking at 3000W duel fuel)

I would opt for one that has a far smaller power requirement.

the grinder (250watts)

Simple, bring ground coffee.

baby burco boiler

Easy peasy, use gas to boil the water.

water pump

This is a new requirement. I take it you do not have a mains water supply?
Whats the story with this? In the OP you said "I run a small business from a lorry" so I took it that you had a sufficiently sized tank in the lorry that met your needs.

either fridge or cooler

Already answered.

So if gas is woeful, genny isn't cheaper, then what alternative do you suggest?

I didn't suggest a genny as in your first post you said "We would like to get electricity but don't want the constant noise of a generator".

Gas is not "woeful".If the gas is costing you a lot it will only be due to you selling enormous volumes of coffee which I would assume has a high margin.

It sounds like you don't want advise, you have already decided on how you want to tackle this and are just looking for people to support your suggestion.

salad17

2011 wrote: »

I would opt for one that has a far smaller power requirement.

Simple, bring ground coffee.

Easy peasy, use gas to boil the water.

This is a new requirement. I take it you do not have a mains water supply?
Whats the story with this? In the OP you said "I run a small business from a lorry" so I took it that you had a sufficiently sized tank in the lorry that met your needs.

Already answered.

I didn't suggest a genny as in your first post you said "We would like to get electricity but don't want the constant noise of a generator".

Gas is not "woeful".If the gas is costing you a lot it will only be due to you selling enormous volumes of coffee which I would assume has a high margin.

It sounds like you don't want advise, you have already decided on how you want to tackle this and are just looking for people to support your suggestion.

We were originally looking at a smaller machine at about 1800 watts so that is possible. Ground coffee will lower the quality. No mains water supply, the water pump is already fitted in the coffee station, it's just a typical camper style pump.

I didn't say it was "Woeful", I was quoting the person who said it.

You sound offended, of course I want advice, my original post was asking if running the cable would be possible and the advice I have gotten is that it is almost certainly not, which I have taken. I still think it's worth asking, as I was also advised. Some seem to think gas is the way to go, and some that it is a bad idea.