Employer forcing staff to test for covid.

RCSATELLITES

Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance.

is_that_so

There are regular test cycles in the meat industry. It's a public health decision because of the close proximity and their living conditions. Your employer may argue the same, especially if there are a lot on shift at the same time and the HSE would most probably agree. It's not fun but should go sometime later this year.

RCSATELLITES

is_that_so wrote: »

There are regular test cycles in the meat industry. It's a public health decision because of the close proximity and their living conditions. Your employer may argue the same, especially if there are a lot on shift at the same time and the HSE would most probably agree. It's not fun but should go but sometime later this year.

I did hear about that and there was alot of outbreaks in the meat factory. We all wear masks and social distancing is possible. There is hand sanitation and temperature checks. I think the HSE advise against testing non symptom persons.

I'm not convinced you can be compelled to take a test - My mother works in a nursing home and is tested every fortnight, a colleague of hers refuses to be tested and continues to be employed by the nursing home.
Anecdotes aside; If your workplace is insisting that they will be introducing mandatory tests they would presumably have to prove that the tests are absolutely necessary, and that there is no other means of ensuring an outbreak doesn't occur, or is detected early on if one does occur.
If you have a union I would approach them, if not have a look on some of their websites, they may have addressed this issue.

Irishphotodesk

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance.

people can have covid and not have any symptoms, the logic behind getting people tested is to ensure that covid isn't spread amongst the workers (some people have felt fine or didn't think they had anything more than a cold).

I've only been tested 3 times for covid, its not really too invasive (guessing you haven't had an STI test or any proctology exams)

RCSATELLITES

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

people can have covid and not have any symptoms, the logic behind getting people tested is to ensure that covid isn't spread amongst the workers (some people have felt fine or didn't think they had anything more than a cold).

I've only been tested 3 times for covid, its not really too invasive (guessing you haven't had an STI test or any proctology exams)

Yes they can have no symptoms. That's why we wear masks for 8 hours a day. That's why we social distance and sanitize our hands. Do you get tested in work every 2 weeks and if not then why do I.

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

Irishphotodesk

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Yes they can have no symptoms. That's why we wear masks for 8 hours a day. That's why we social distance and sanitize our hands. Do you get tested in work every 2 weeks and if not then why do I.

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

I don't get tested in work every every two weeks because I'm reduced to working 3 days every 2 weeks instead of the normal 5 days a week that I was doing.

only reason I was tested was due to being a close contact of positive cases, I had no symptoms but tested positive on the third occasion - and isolated in a bedroom for 2 weeks.

wearing a mask and socially distancing in work may be protecting you in work - but are you doing the same outside work ? this is the reason work is testing - because they don't know who is being careful outside of work and who isn't - and the only way to discover if someone has gotten covid outside of work is to test regularly.

notsoyoungwan

I get tested every 2 weeks in work and it wouldn’t cross my mind to refuse or to even enquire if I could refuse. It’s not an invasive test. It’s a nasal and throat swab and it’s over in minutes, if not even seconds. It’s hardly akin to a colonoscopy or a smear test.

Del2005

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Yes they can have no symptoms. That's why we wear masks for 8 hours a day. That's why we social distance and sanitize our hands. Do you get tested in work every 2 weeks and if not then why do I.

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

You need to be wearing FPP2/N95 masks to get protection and they need to be put on and off correctly to work. The surgical/cloth masks don't protect you they are to protect others, but as nearly everyone uses them wrong they don't offer the protection that people think they do and 2m distancing doesn't correlate with any scientific studies of our exhaled breath, and since companies need to ensure a safe workplace they need to be able to check if employees are sick.

Snotty

I'm not sure I follow, do you think your employer is doing this for fun or just to annoy the workers?

Without more knowledge, I'm going to guess one or more of the following apply:
1. There's a contact issue, equipment or products.
2. The product being manufactured could be considered essential.
3. Large onsite workforce.

grogi

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance.

Your contract for sure has clauses about antisocial behaviour. Refusing to get tested can be considered one.

The employer also wants to reduce its exposure for a possible civil action should an outbreak occurs.

Grow up and live with the slight inconvenience.

A year into this pandemic, and a question like this is still being asked.

What has happened to us.

Is it “legal” for your employer to make you use a “fire escape”

We are in a pandemic, the world has changed. Working conditions have changed. The world is falling apart as we speak. You are lucky to be in employment, suck it up and be responsible. Your employer is doing a great thing.

If you don’t want to take the test, either tell your employer or get a solicitor.

And you are the first person I have ever heard using the term “invasive” for the Covid test, because you know your argument is wafer thin.

Employer spends fortune to protect staff and business outrageous carry on.

1874

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

I'm not convinced you can be compelled to take a test - My mother works in a nursing home and is tested every fortnight, a colleague of hers refuses to be tested and continues to be employed by the nursing home.
Anecdotes aside; If your workplace is insisting that they will be introducing mandatory tests they would presumably have to prove that the tests are absolutely necessary, and that there is no other means of ensuring an outbreak doesn't occur, or is detected early on if one does occur.
If you have a union I would approach them, if not have a look on some of their websites, they may have addressed this issue.

Astonishing? that they are still employed imo, now if the OP was saying being obligated to get a vaccine (regardless of whether I agree or disagree), I suppose someone has a choice to not be medicated, although whether they should still be employed is another question given the risk associated with someone passing on an infection in a nursing home. I suspect that headcount and suitable/qualified is the problem.
I cant imagine getting a union involved would help much, but I suppose thats an option.



I got the test, I wouldnt call it invasive, open to correction but I think Medically "invasive" would mean they had to cut you open surgically and that is not the case.
The test as described by the OP is not significant, not particularly pleasant, but not horrific, its a swab in the nose and mine was also a swab at the back of the throat, I would not describe it as invasive though.



I imagine, many work contracts will include testing if people are refusing now, makes sense to be tested especially in certain environments.
In care homes because of the risk to residents, I'd have thought the problem in the meat industry wasn't avoidable because of the living conditions/circumstances of the workers, rather than work conditions (open to correction but I'd hazard a guess people aren't working on top of each other or that it can be organised not to do so).

RCSATELLITES

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I get tested every 2 weeks in work and it wouldn’t cross my mind to refuse or to even enquire if I could refuse. It’s not an invasive test. It’s a nasal and throat swab and it’s over in minutes, if not even seconds. It’s hardly akin to a colonoscopy or a smear test.

Would you say the same thing when they force the vaccine on you?

"It wouldn't cross my mind to refuse or to even enquire if I could refuse"

RCSATELLITES

Del2005 wrote: »

You need to be wearing FPP2/N95 masks to get protection and they need to be put on and off correctly to work. The surgical/cloth masks don't protect you they are to protect others, but as nearly everyone uses them wrong they don't offer the protection that people think they do and 2m distancing doesn't correlate with any scientific studies of our exhaled breath, and since companies need to ensure a safe workplace they need to be able to check if employees are sick.

The company supplies use with the correct equipment and procedures. We also have a covid officer to make sure we are wearing / using them correctly.

Wesser

You can be forced to be tested by public health lae. So if it has been mandated by public health law then we must be tested but otherwise no

RCSATELLITES

grogi wrote: »

Your contract for sure has clauses about antisocial behaviour. Refusing to get tested can be considered one.

The employer also wants to reduce its exposure for a possible civil action should an outbreak occurs.

Grow up and live with the slight inconvenience.

Who said I refuse, I am clearly asking is it legal to make it mandatory and force people to do something.

Next it will be the vaccine and I suppose I should just be a sheep and grow up and let them do what they want.

markpb

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

Advice on this has changed as scientific understanding progresses. Social distancing does not work indoors, especially if the room is not ventilated. Masks help with this but only suitable masks and only when worn correctly.

RCSATELLITES

grogi wrote: »

Your contract for sure has clauses about antisocial behaviour. Refusing to get tested can be considered one.

The employer also wants to reduce its exposure for a possible civil action should an outbreak occurs.

Grow up and live with the slight inconvenience.

Refusing something is not anti social behaviour. Cope on and grow up.

Ficheall

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Who said I refuse, I am clearly asking is it legal to make it mandatory and force people to do something.

Next it will be the vaccine and I suppose I should just be a sheep and grow up and let them do what they want.

Since your covid officer isn't here - your mask may have slipped.

RCSATELLITES

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A year into this pandemic, and a question like this is still being asked.

What has happened to us.

Is it “legal” for your employer to make you use a “fire escape”

We are in a pandemic, the world has changed. Working conditions have changed. The world is falling apart as we speak. You are lucky to be in employment, suck it up and be responsible. Your employer is doing a great thing.

If you don’t want to take the test, either tell your employer or get a solicitor.

And you are the first person I have ever heard using the term “invasive” for the Covid test, because you know your argument is wafer thin.

Haha that's what the test is called, it's not like i made it up.

"the current standard invasive test for the coronavirus which collects specimens from the back of the nose and throat."

Taken from the hse website.

RCSATELLITES

Wesser wrote: »

You can be forced to be tested by public health lae. So if it has been mandated by public health law then we must be tested but otherwise no

Thanks, at last an answer to my reasonable question.

atilladehun

Not only will this test help keep you in work it'll also help protect your family.

You know the way they say the vaccine is 90% effective. The mask and social distancing could be considered way less effective. Have a look at the Swiss cheese model for covid protection. Even when you do absolutely everything possible to protect yourself there's still a slight chance you get it and pass it on completely unbeknownst to yourself.

RCSATELLITES

1874 wrote: »

Astonishing? that they are still employed imo, now if the OP was saying being obligated to get a vaccine (regardless of whether I agree or disagree), I suppose someone has a choice to not be medicated, although whether they should still be employed is another question given the risk associated with someone passing on an infection in a nursing home. I suspect that headcount and suitable/qualified is the problem.
I cant imagine getting a union involved would help much, but I suppose thats an option.



I got the test, I wouldnt call it invasive, open to correction but I think Medically "invasive" would mean they had to cut you open surgically and that is not the case.
The test as described by the OP is not significant, not particularly pleasant, but not horrific, its a swab in the nose and mine was also a swab at the back of the throat, I would not describe it as invasive though.



I imagine, many work contracts will include testing if people are refusing now, makes sense to be tested especially in certain environments.
In care homes because of the risk to residents, I'd have thought the problem in the meat industry wasn't avoidable because of the living conditions/circumstances of the workers, rather than work conditions (open to correction but I'd hazard a guess people aren't working on top of each other or that it can be organised not to do so).

We must be great workers to be still employed. Forcing the vaccine will be next. The test is called an invasive test, contact the hse to get it corrected.

Away With The Fairies

I don't understand how someone is upset with testing. If someone was positive, I would want them removed from work and go home to isolate and not infect others.

embraer170

I wish my employer would introduce mandatory testing. I would feel quite a bit safer going to the office. It's quite the opposite with our top execs walking around with no masks, organising meetings with 10+ in a meeting room with no one wearing masks, etc.

I am shocked to read stories above about frontline healthcare workers refusing to get tested. They really went into the wrong job.

mcgragger

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Thanks, at last an answer to my reasonable question.

Why would you or your colleagues not want to be tested?
Is there something to hide? Why are you looking for angles when an employer clearly seems to be doing the right thing to keep their operation going. Whether they are doing it for staff safety or to maintain production is another matter but if you are unhappy with a testing protocol why dont you or whoever has the problem just leave and go find a job where you dont have to get tested.

Honestly this modern culture pisses me off. Just leave if you dont like it.
Stop moaning about it, If you are an anti vaxxer then dont take the ****ing vacine either - stop moaning about it.

Your employer has a business to run so you either follow the rules or leave.
It really is that simple.

RCSATELLITES

atilladehun wrote: »

Not only will this test help keep you in work it'll also help protect your family.

You know the way they say the vaccine is 90% effective. The mask and social distancing could be considered way less effective. Have a look at the Swiss cheese model for covid protection. Even when you do absolutely everything possible to protect yourself there's still a slight chance you get it and pass it on completely unbeknownst to yourself.

For it to work properly, we need the test everyday or we need to live in work. that's life and we have to get in with it. Buy is it legal to force a test on someone, that the question.

Away With The Fairies

embraer170 wrote: »

I wish my employer would introduce mandatory testing. I would feel quite a bit safer going to the office.

I am shocked to read stories above about frontline healthcare workers refusing to get tested. They really went into the wrong job.

Absolutely. I would like mandatory testing in my workplace as well.

RCSATELLITES

embraer170 wrote: »

I wish my employer would introduce mandatory testing. I would feel quite a bit safer going to the office.

I am shocked to read stories above about frontline healthcare workers refusing to get tested. They really went into the wrong job.

Have you asked your employer? Tell them its mandatory in other company so it should be the same there.

MarkR

Employer can require a negative test for you to be on site. I have to have Garda vetting done to work where I work. If I was to refuse, which I could presumably do, I wouldn't be allowed to work.

Quandary

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Would you say the same thing when they force the vaccine

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Next it will be the vaccine and I suppose I should just be a sheep and grow up and let them do what they want.

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Forcing the vaccine will be next.

Mask is rapidly slipping.


I wish my employment had mandatory testing of all staff, and if we got prioritised for vaccination it would be brilliant.

RCSATELLITES

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Absolutely. I would like mandatory testing in my workplace as well.

Write to HR and request it.

RCSATELLITES

Quandary wrote: »

Mask is rapidly slipping.


I wish my employment had mandatory testing of all staff, and if we got prioritised for vaccination it would be brilliant.

Ask them if that's what you want, that's not what I want and I am entitled to it.

RCSATELLITES

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Haha that's what the test is called, it's not like i made it up.

"the current standard invasive test for the coronavirus which collects specimens from the back of the nose and throat."

Taken from the hse website.

I’m not disputing that it is an invasive test, what I’m saying is, that since the pandemic started, you are the first person I have heard make a point of stating “it’s an invasive test” as if you employer was asking you to undergo a complicated medical procedure every two weeks.

listermint

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Ask them if that's what you want, that's not what I want and I am entitled to it.

Look it's all well and good with your Facebook style me fein attitude. I get it, your oppressed. They're making sure your not a source of disease to your colleagues boo hoo winge winge winge
If anything this last year has fully proven the term that common sense isn't common.

I'd use every HR tool at my disposal to have you exited from your role and make no apologies for it. Your feelings and opinions on getting tested don't trump the safety of your colleagues and their own families. But I guess you never think about other people but yourself and whatever Facebook feed you're getting your crap information off.

Away With The Fairies

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Write to HR and request it.

It's yourself looking for advice here, not me.

It's for the health and safety of employees, it's selfish of you trying to get around it.

wench

When your employer mandates anal testing, then you'll have grounds for complaint!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/china-starts-using-anal-swabs-test-covid-high-infection-areas

RCSATELLITES

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m not disputing that it is an invasive test, what I’m saying is, that since the pandemic started, you are the first person I have heard make a point of stating “it’s an invasive test” as if you employer was asking you to undergo a complicated medical procedure every two weeks.

People react differently to tests, we are not all hard men like you. That's funny as lots of the guy and girls I talk to find it uncomfortable. Invasive means to go into the body, it doesn't have to be heart surgery.


Invasive meaning:
of medical procedures) involving the introduction of instruments or other objects into the body or body cavities.

You must be isolating for the past year,if you have not heard it.

RCSATELLITES

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

People react differently to tests, we are not all hard men like you. That's funny as lots of the guy and girls I talk to find it uncomfortable. Invasive means to go into the body, it doesn't have to be heart surgery.


Invasive meaning:
of medical procedures) involving the introduction of instruments or other objects into the body or body cavities.

You must be isolating for the past year,if you have not heard it.

I think you’re missing my point.
I know exactly what invasive means

listermint

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

People react differently to tests, we are not all hard men like you. That's funny as lots of the guy and girls I talk to find it uncomfortable. Invasive means to go into the body, it doesn't have to be heart surgery.


Invasive meaning:
of medical procedures) involving the introduction of instruments or other objects into the body or body cavities.

You must be isolating for the past year,if you have not heard it.

I've had a test. It's uncomfortable. Big whoop !?


Are you purposefully trying to harm your colleagues and their families. Your family ? Do you even think about that.

Has anyone given you a stern talking to about your internet consumption. Things to consider...

Away With The Fairies

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

People react differently to tests, we are not all hard men like you. That's funny as lots of the guy and girls I talk to find it uncomfortable. Invasive means to go into the body, it doesn't have to be heart surgery.


Invasive meaning:
of medical procedures) involving the introduction of instruments or other objects into the body or body cavities.

You must be isolating for the past year,if you have not heard it.

I had to get tested a few months ago. It's not nice. But I wouldn't be refusing because I know it's not about me and it's protecting others you work with.

You cannot be forced by law to take a test against your will. You cannot be forced by your employer unless its specifically stated in your contract or terms of employment which you did, in fairness, agree to.

There may be an allowance / argument for excluding someone from work if they wont be tested. Im unaware of anyone doing so and a challenge in court so I cant say.

The primary legislation in this regards would be the Safety Health and Welfare at Work (Biological Agents) Regulations 2013 and Infectious Diseases Regulations 1981 which have been updated to include Covid19. I see mention of providing access to many options such as tests but no power to force or mandate.

Regardless of my own personal thougthts on the OP and his decision, this is the legal discussion section and he asked an opinion on law. People refusing tests for selfish reasons has been around a lot longer than Covid19 by the way. If we cant force a junkie that spat blood into someones open wound to take a HIV test, I dont think we can start on about covid

RCSATELLITES

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I had to get tested a few months ago. It's not nice. But I wouldn't be refusing because I know it's not about me and it's protecting others you work with.

"Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case."

You did read that, as the first line. I am just making sure my rights as an employee and an individual are being followed. I thought the legal discussion area might have some form of information, but as normal with boards full of opinionated assholes

RCSATELLITES

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It's yourself looking for advice here, not me.

It's for the health and safety of employees, it's selfish of you trying to get around it.

Well unless you have any, then off you go.

MarkR

MarkR wrote: »

Employer can require a negative test for you to be on site. I have to have Garda vetting done to work where I work. If I was to refuse, which I could presumably do, I wouldn't be allowed to work.

That was a condition of getting the job and is a legislative requirement

RCSATELLITES

listermint wrote: »

I've had a test. It's uncomfortable. Big whoop !?


Are you purposefully trying to harm your colleagues and their families. Your family ? Do you even think about that.

Has anyone given you a stern talking to about your internet consumption. Things to consider...

So you think testing people every 2 weeks is going to save the world. Cop the fcuk on.

lucernarian

Del2005 wrote: »

You need to be wearing FPP2/N95 masks to get protection and they need to be put on and off correctly to work. The surgical/cloth masks don't protect you they are to protect others, but as nearly everyone uses them wrong they don't offer the protection that people think they do and 2m distancing doesn't correlate with any scientific studies of our exhaled breath, and since companies need to ensure a safe workplace they need to be able to check if employees are sick.

I couldn't agree more.

Surgical and cloth masks won't even achieve much in non ventilated indoor spaces, and several studies indicate this, but the message isn't really getting through anywhere beyond the likes of some of Germany and Austria. They've now mandated FPP2 masks, but the Irish approach is still firmly in the "wash your hands and it's fine" mindset.

PCeeeee

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Who said I refuse, I am clearly asking is it legal to make it mandatory and force people to do something.

Next it will be the vaccine and I suppose I should just be a sheep and grow up and let them do what they want.

This is clearly of great concern to you and I would guess the last thing you want to do is spend time debating this issue with unsympathetic voices here. You will be delighted to know that the legal profession is deemed essential and as such remain open for business.

Go to a solicitor and get advice, it's the best way for you to get a resolution.

Mimon

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

So you think testing people every 2 weeks is going to save the world. Cop the fcuk on.

Wow, you are angry. Did you just start the thread to have online arguments with strangers?