EV for very low mileage

RandomViewer

Gumbo wrote: »

Very rare to do either.

Battery degradation is a known problem in Leafs, 24kw one around 3% a year, so a 10 year old one will probably do 80km on a full charge 30kw is 9%, , maybe buy a diesel generator and stick it in the boot of that one

Casati

RandomViewer wrote: »

Old people rarely fill their own fuel, they'll actually travel to a forecourt with a pump attendant, EVs dont suit everyone, pushing people into them because theres a sales target is no better than a pyramid scheme

This must a wind up? Somebody in their mid 50's is old now?? Are you sure you have'nt transported yourself back to the 1950's when we had poorer life expectancy and petrol pump attendants?

I agree EV's dont suit everybody and probably isnt ideal for the OP as she will pay a premium for an EV which really wont give any fuel saving as her mileage is so low. I'd steer her towards a newer/ cheaper Micra or Yaris

Gumbo

RandomViewer wrote: »

Battery degradation is a known problem in Leafs, 24kw one around 3% a year, so a 10 year old one will probably do 80km on a full charge 30kw is 9%, , maybe buy a diesel generator and stick it in the boot of that one

The degradation is not linear.
It will level out over time.

Even the very first 2011 leaf that had the battery issues (the 132 Gen 1.5 with lizard batteries were much better) won’t degrade to 0. They still have a range of 60-80km on a single charge now.

If that suits your driving then perfect. There’s gains to be had with local emissions and reduced cost of motoring for the owner.

If the owner really wanted to increase their range then they can do a battery swap for about €2k - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058074989

liamog

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, we have arguments that the same age second hand EV is both too expensive because of the cost premium, and shouldn't be purchased due to loss in value. Generally EVs are deprecating at or around the same level as their ICE equivalents, much of the misunderstanding is due to reports looking at pre incentive prices instead of original purchase price. You see a similar effect when looking at range. The 24kWh Leaf was sold as a 199km car, according to EVDB, it had a realistic range of 130km in summer and 110km in winter. The Leaf does seem to suffer age related battery loss more than other cars. We see Renault Zoe's from around 2014 with much lower rates of battery loss.

To the OPs scenario, something like this 2015 Zoe would be about the same size as her Micra https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-dynamique-nav-88bhp-22kw/26995423 and are usually under 10k, financially she would probably be better off buying a Clio found 1k less.

Casati

liamog wrote: »

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, we have arguments that the same age second hand EV is both too expensive because of the cost premium, and shouldn't be purchased due to loss in value. Generally EVs are deprecating at or around the same level as their ICE equivalents, much of the misunderstanding is due to reports looking at pre incentive prices instead of original purchase price. You see a similar effect when looking at range. The 24kWh Leaf was sold as a 199km car, according to EVDB, it had a realistic range of 130km in summer and 110km in winter. The Leaf does seem to suffer age related battery loss more than other cars. We see Renault Zoe's from around 2014 with much lower rates of battery loss.

To the OPs scenario, something like this 2015 Zoe would be about the same size as her Micra https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-dynamique-nav-88bhp-22kw/26995423 and are usually under 10k, financially she would probably be better off buying a Clio found 1k less.

You are adding to the mis- information by finding a particular 2015 Zoe that is priced well to prove a point but that doesn’t mean other posters are wrong.

Go up to say 2017 and you see a completely different picture - plenty of low mileage Clios for under 10k yet the cheapest Zoe’s is 13k (battery lease?) and most are 15k. That’s 30% to 50% price difference

Jump to 2019 and Clios are 11/12k where a single Zoe is 18k and most are 20k+. That’s a 50% price difference

McGiver

Casati wrote:

Jump to 2019 and Clios are 11/12k where a single Zoe is 18k and most are 20k+. That’s a 50% price difference

Proves EVs depreciate less.

Gael23

pwurple wrote: »

Pre owned leaf would be ideal for her.
Lads, the woman is her 50's, not her 90's.

Low tax, low maintenance, low cost of ownership. That's what is ideal about EVs. No oil changes etc. It's plug and play. With low mileage the largest cost of ownership factor is actually not the fuel, it's the insurance, tax, annual service. My leaf service was 90 euro per year. Tax was 120. What petrol car comes close to that?

Also it's a nippy car, easy to park. Get one with the cold pack if you can, the heated steering wheel and seats is a touch of luxury on cold mornings.

It’s €280 tax on the Micra for some reason. It looks to only mean going back another year to get a Leaf Vs a Micra. There used to be a rule where the age of the car made a difference to the amount of years you could finance over. Is that still there?

Casati

McGiver wrote: »

Proves EVs depreciate less.

No it doesnt, it indicates that Zoe's are considerably more expensive than Clio's second-hand. They are of course considerably more expensive new also.

Gumbo

Gael23 wrote: »

It’s €280 tax on the Micra for some reason. It looks to only mean going back another year to get a Leaf Vs a Micra. There used to be a rule where the age of the car made a difference to the amount of years you could finance over. Is that still there?

You need to do a cost comparison.
There seems to be a lot of talk by you on finance costs?

If so worried about finance costs, why not keep her existing car?

liamog

Casati wrote: »

No it doesnt, it indicates that Zoe's are considerably more expensive than Clio's second-hand. They are of course considerably more expensive new also.

Which pretty much illustrates that the depreciation is about even.

If one car is 30k new and worth 15k after 4 years, the second car is 20k new and worth 10k after 4 years, they have the same 50% depreciation.

Gael23

Gumbo wrote: »

You need to do a cost comparison.
There seems to be a lot of talk by you on finance costs?

If so worried about finance costs, why not keep her existing car?

She can only afford so much on a loan every month so getting an EV looks to mean getting an older car than by staying ICE

liamog

Gael23 wrote: »

She can only afford so much on a loan every month so getting an EV looks to mean getting an older car than by staying ICE

Yep, this is what you need to focus on, her mileage is so low that she won't benefit from the reduced running cost. Better for her to buy a reliable petrol car this time round.

Gumbo

Gael23 wrote: »

She can only afford so much on a loan every month so getting an EV looks to mean getting an older car than by staying ICE

Narrow or down to the 2 choices and compare.
Do a twin column.

If you post up what car your considering then it can be compared against a similar EV. Then if the EV is. It worth it, concentrate on the ICE.

Gael23

Gumbo wrote: »

Narrow or down to the 2 choices and compare.
Do a twin column.

If you post up what car your considering then it can be compared against a similar EV. Then if the EV is. It worth it, concentrate on the ICE.

From the research I’ve done a 2016 Leaf 30 would cost only slightly less than a 2018 Micra.

Gael23

HVe been doing some searching recently.
Looked in a Renault dealership at a 172 Zoe but they also have a 191 Clio for the same price. It’s hard to go back 2 years further

oinkely

There's other considerations too. In our case, my mother, slightly older than yours chose EV at considerably more expense as she hated going to the petrol station - like detested it with a passion. The convenience of having a fully charged car ready to go outside the house whenever she needed it was a big consideration for her. The ease of driving vs a petrol/diesel also came into it, but more after the fact. At this stage, 3 years on she will never own an ICE again.

She is also a bit environmentally conscious and liked the idea of replacing an aging diesel with an EV.

I would suggest a test drive if you can arrange it in a few of the contenders and then take it from there. I would take an older ev over an ICE of younger years every time.

Gael23

Yes I see your point. It’s just the car would be 9 years old by the time she’s finished paying for it

Gumbo

Gael23 wrote: »

HVe been doing some searching recently.
Looked in a Renault dealership at a 172 Zoe but they also have a 191 Clio for the same price. It’s hard to go back 2 years further

What’s the difference in the 2 years if they are the same price?
Battery size?
Model refresh?
Spec?

For me, I’d have a 171 Leaf Tekna over a 191 Leaf Base, all others being equal, similar for tesla, I’d take a 2015 Performance over a 2018 LR/Standard etc