Margin/markup on parts

Ricta

I was shocked to discover an Independant garage in Co. Galway putting an 18.5% markup on the price of parts for a clutch repair. Plus €390 labour to replace Pressure Plate, Disc, Concentric Slave Cylinder and Dual Mass Flywheel.

I could understand a markup from the trade price to the retail price, but another 18.5% on top again?

Is this close to normal or just plain greedy?

shanec1928

is rent, insurance tools etc free?

Toyotafanboi

How are you working that out?

20%- 30% ish would be about right for mark-up on spurious parts.

I ask because the retail price of the same component can change from supplier to supplier.

A particular clutch kit for your car from one supplier could be €100 and the mechanic is getting it -20%, you may have seen it advertised from another supplier for €95 retail. Pays to shop around, same as anything but most workshops only have one or two "go to" suppliers and the part manufacturers usually don't insist on a consistent RRP for their parts.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

How are you working that out?

20%- 30% ish would be about right for mark-up on spurious parts.

I ask because the retail price of the same component can change from supplier to supplier.

A particular clutch kit for your car from one supplier could be €100 and the mechanic is getting it -20%, you may have seen it advertised from another supplier for €95 retail. Pays to shop around, same as anything but most workshops only have one or two "go to" suppliers and the part manufacturers usually don't insist on a consistent RRP for their parts.

Assuming the op is comparing like for like, nobody should be paying 20 percent above retail for their parts.

Del2005

mickdw wrote: »

Assuming the op is comparing like for like, nobody should be paying 20 percent above retail for their parts.

Most retailers have a bigger mark up. They are businesses not charities, if they don't mark up on parts they will have to charge more for labour.

User1998

God forbid a business makes money. Theres a mark up on parts in every trade. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc etc

colm_mcm

User1998 wrote: »

God forbid a business makes money. Theres a mark up on parts in every trade. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc etc

There’s also trade prices which they buy at.
That said a business can charge what they want. If the customer agreed a price for the job and parts then it’s irrelevant what the garage bought them for.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

Assuming the op is comparing like for like, nobody should be paying 20 percent above retail for their parts.

There is no set RRP from most component manufacturers it is set by the suppling retailer through their supplier who generally isn't the manufacturer either, so they aren't paying 20% over retail they just paid 20% more than the same product in a different supplier.

Maybe the place OP found was doing some kind of deal or sale and the mechanic's price was the going rate?

Same applys to a pair of runners or a bottle of coke though to be fair.

Brembo front brake pads for 2012 1.6TDCi Mondeo, for example;

Euro Car Parts €79.46
https://www.eurocarparts.com/en_ie/p/brembo-brake-pad-10159125A

Micks Garage €41.99
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/brake-pads/ford/ford-mondeo/mondeo-saloon-2007-to-2014/1-6-tdci-115-1560/products/3282862-6237-100896/brembo-front-brake-pads-full-set-for-front-axle-

and both products claim to already offer, bizzarely, 17% off.

mgbgt1978

How is the OP aware that the Garage added exactly 18.5% to the Retail Price of the parts ?
It was hardly on the invoice !!!


Is the OP just comparing what he/she was charged against the micks garage price (for example) ?

Fair enough, the garage buys the parts from a local motor factors....gets a trade discount....adds the discount back on to the bill, etc.
But where did this 18.5% come from ?

Ricta

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

How is the OP aware that the Garage added exactly 18.5% to the Retail Price of the parts ?
It was hardly on the invoice !!!


Is the OP just comparing what he/she was charged against the micks garage price (for example) ?

Fair enough, the garage buys the parts from a local motor factors....gets a trade discount....adds the discount back on to the bill, etc.
But where did this 18.5% come from ?

When I received the quote I did some looking in places like Micksgarage etc. and noticed quite a difference in the part price, same brand part as in the quote, LUK. I rang the garage to see if they had made a mistake. They told me how much their supplier charges them for the part and that the extra in the price in the quote is their margin. The maths on the two figures give an 18.5% margin.

I then rang the parts dept. of the local main dealer for my car and asked how much would the part be to me as a non-trade price (to my mind that is retail price), I was quoted the exact same figure as the garage said their supplier was selling it to them for. He also said that if I was willing to wait for a slower delivery, he could get lower prices from outside sources for LUK or Sachs parts.

I had a conversation with the guy in the parts dept. about garages adding a markup to parts prices, he said that was normal, they either add it to the parts or thay charge more for labour. He asked me what the labour was in the quote, there was a slight intake of breath and an opinion expressed that the labour costs were on the higher side, which would seem at odds with adding 18.5% to the retail price of the parts.

I understand that the guy is trying to run a profitable business, I would understand a markup from trade price to "retail price", probably even a bit more. I'm wondering how this particular markup would compare with other garages practices. Does the labour look like it's on the higher end of a normal range?

It would seem that all that matters in a quote is the bottom line price, that different garages will spread the markup between labour and parts, some may find it useful to put it in the parts to make the labour seem more competitive, or vice versa, or, indeed, charge well for labour and put a good markup on parts as well.

There are a lot of car owners who would not be aware of this practice and thus would not be able to do an informed shop-around.

mickdw

Ricta wrote: »

When I received the quote I did some looking in places like Micksgarage etc. and noticed quite a difference in the part price, same brand part as in the quote, LUK. I rang the garage to see if they had made a mistake. They told me how much their supplier charges them for the part and that the extra in the price in the quote is their margin. The maths on the two figures give an 18.5% margin.

I then rang the parts dept. of the local main dealer for my car and asked how much would the part be to me as a non-trade price (to my mind that is retail price), I was quoted the exact same figure as the garage said their supplier was selling it to them for. He also said that if I was willing to wait for a slower delivery, he could get lower prices from outside sources for LUK or Sachs parts.

I had a conversation with the guy in the parts dept. about garages adding a markup to parts prices, he said that was normal, they either add it to the parts or thay charge more for labour. He asked me what the labour was in the quote, there was a slight intake of breath and an opinion expressed that the labour costs were on the higher side, which would seem at odds with adding 18.5% to the retail price of the parts.

I understand that the guy is trying to run a profitable business, I would understand a markup from trade price to "retail price", probably even a bit more. I'm wondering how this particular markup would compare with other garages practices. Does the labour look like it's on the higher end of a normal range?

It would seem that all that matters in a quote is the bottom line price, that different garages will spread the markup between labour and parts, some may find it useful to put it in the parts to make the labour seem more competitive, or vice versa, or, indeed, charge well for labour and put a good markup on parts as well.

There are a lot of car owners who would not be aware of this practice and thus would not be able to do an informed shop-around.

Not good enough in my opinion.
I think you are more than fair in how you are assessing you retail price.
A garage charging way over main dealer retail is not on.
Surely that is what trade pricing is for - to allow the garage to buy even at main dealer and still bill it out at a fair price while making some margin.

Eric Cartman

Also the garage may have to pay for the delivery van to come out with parts. If youre the only part needed that day in the van the mechanic might be paying a 10er to have that dropped out to him

Toyotafanboi

I think you're digging too deep OP, sorry. Unless you know who supplied the actual clutch kit in your car, you're comparisons aren't relavant. You're making asumptions based on the unknown.

Micksgarage isn't an accurate depiction of real world workshop pricing. A parts guy wouldn't have a bulls notion of an accurate labour time. I'd take the whole thing with a pinch of salt. It's too easy to be sucking his gums and agreeing with you that another workshops repair is dicey, after the fact.

Birka

Ricta wrote: »

I had a conversation with the guy in the parts dept. about garages adding a markup to parts prices, he said that was normal, they either add it to the parts or thay charge more for labour. He asked me what the labour was in the quote, there was a slight intake of breath and an opinion expressed that the labour costs were on the higher side, which would seem at odds with adding 18.5% to the retail price of the parts.

So in this case, is it cheaper to get the work done with the main dealer?

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I think you're digging too deep OP, sorry. Unless you know who supplied the actual clutch kit in your car, you're comparisons aren't relavant. You're making asumptions based on the unknown.

Micksgarage isn't an accurate depiction of real world workshop pricing. A parts guy wouldn't have a bulls notion of an accurate labour time. I'd take the whole thing with a pinch of salt. It's too easy to be sucking his gums and agreeing with you that another workshops repair is dicey, after the fact.

So its ok for garage to be billing customer 18 percent more than the main dealer parts counter full retail figure?

DaveyDave

mickdw wrote: »

So its ok for garage to be billing customer 18 percent more than the main dealer parts counter full retail figure?

Yes. They can charge whatever they want. It's up to the customer to go elsewhere if they think they're getting ripped off.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

So its ok for garage to be billing customer 18 percent more than the main dealer parts counter full retail figure?

Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes main dealers are cheaper than aftermarket suppliers.

There's still no confirmation from OP that we are comparing exact like for like here, as in, same part from same supplier.

I can see the headlines now, "different part from different supplier in different price shocker".

The OP was offered a price, that we don't even know to be outlandish, just that it was more expensive that a different price, that we don't know is a bargain. They were offered a price, accepted and the job was done.

Buyers remorse IMO, the time for shopping around was before the work was started. We've all been there with something or other before.

bladespin

Always assumed 30% was standard, looks like you've actually found yourself a bargain

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes main dealers are cheaper than aftermarket suppliers.

There's still no confirmation from OP that we are comparing exact like for like here, as in, same part from same supplier.

I can see the headlines now, "different part from different supplier in different price shocker".

The OP was offered a price, that we don't even know to be outlandish, just that it was more expensive that a different price, that we don't know is a bargain. They were offered a price, accepted and the job was done.

Buyers remorse IMO, the time for shopping around was before the work was started. We've all been there with something or other before.

Well i wouldnt pay it. Fair enough i would have worked it out before agreeing but if for example i priced a clutch and flywheel at 700 at main dealer, id be quick to walk away from garage who would price the part at 825.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

Well i wouldnt pay it. Fair enough i would have worked it out before agreeing but if for example i priced a clutch and flywheel at 700 at main dealer, id be quick to walk away from garage who would price the part at 825.

That's how shopping around works, it's much easier and more fruitful before the job is done though.

colm_mcm

bladespin wrote: »

Always assumed 30% was standard, looks like you've actually found yourself a bargain

30% on what though? cost?

Hellrazer

The thread title is a bit misleading as Margin and Mark up are 2 different things.

Say I buy something for €70.00 and I sell it for €100.00 the margin on it is €30.00 or 30% MARGIN.

Mark up is different.

Same example the MARKUP is 43%.

Profit margin shows profit as it relates to a product's sales price or revenue generated. Markup shows profit as it relates to costs.

I wouldn't be happy with an 18% mark up in the parts department as 18% mark up is only around 15.5% profit.

Most main dealers aim for 25-30% MARGIN (43-53% MARKUP) on parts overall. That's when you take into account warranty parts rates / trade discounts etc.

Dirty Nails

Back in the good old days of block exemption rules,main dealers were bound by their contract to abide manufacturers RRP. Whether they all did or not is another story.

Main dealer party are sometimes cheaper than spurious parts.Ford & Opel were good examples.

Another example is a Purflux oil filter from a factors costing a garage €3 more than a genuine Peugeot branded Purflux filters retailed at.

newmember2

bladespin wrote: »

Always assumed 30% was standard, looks like you've actually found yourself a bargain

You're saying if you needed a set of brake pads fitted, you'd be happy to pay the mechanic 30% more for the pads than what you could buy them for yourself??
As said, surely the profit the mechanic makes on parts is his trade discount against selling on to the customer at retail price. Added to this are mechanic labour rates that any brickie or whoever would be more than delighted with. The extra in labour cost should be offsetting the overheads of the mechanic IMO.

User1998

If someone wants to buy parts at the lowest possible prices than they should try source the parts themselves. The mechanic is essentially acting as a middle man and making a profit on the parts they supply to you. They are entitled to do this as after all they are a business supplying you with goods and a service which they are of course entitled to make money on. As said above you should shop around and do some research if you want the lowest possible price. Leaving your car in and not having to worry about sourcing parts, phoning several suppliers, arranging collection/delivery is surely worth something?

mickdw

User1998 wrote: »

If someone wants to buy parts at the lowest possible prices than they should try source the parts themselves. The mechanic is essentially acting as a middle man and making a profit on the parts they supply to you. They are entitled to do this as after all they are a business supplying you with goods and a service which they are of course entitled to make money on. As said above you should shop around and do some research if you want the lowest possible price. Leaving your car in and not having to worry about sourcing parts, phoning several suppliers, arranging collection/delivery is surely worth something?

Yes its worth something and anyone would be happy to give them a decent margin but if that results in the part being billed out to the customer at 20 percent over main dealer retail, there is something a miss.
For oe standard parts, the garage would want to be maxing out at main dealer retail price on average.

bucketybuck

If I'm not getting at least 20% on the parts then frankly I'm not interested in selling them, jog on and buy your own.

And its 20% on my actual cost price thank you, not whatever cost price you think I should have paid. If you think I should be getting them cheaper elsewhere then again, feel free to go and get them yourself. I won't cry none.

Its worth pointing out while you have time and leisure to ring multiple different suppliers comparing prices on the few bits that you need, an independent mechanic with multiple cars to fix and dozens of parts to buy, well at some point he needs to actually get to work rather than farting about chasing parts.

They all price check as best they can, of course they do, but they aren't dedicated parts suppliers so course there is going to be variance in the prices.

Dirty Nails

newmember? wrote: »

You're saying if you needed a set of brake pads fitted, you'd be happy to pay the mechanic 30% more for the pads than what you could buy them for yourself??
As said, surely the profit the mechanic makes on parts is his trade discount against selling on to the customer at retail price. Added to this are mechanic labour rates that any brickie or whoever would be more than delighted with. The extra in labour cost should be offsetting the overheads of the mechanic IMO.

The problem arises when private customers can buy parts at trade prices.They are trade prices for a reason. Then of course there's the vat,23% as opposed to 13.5%.

Tesco won't sell you a loaf at the same price it paid Pat the Baker

Just to add,since when is a brickie (while skilled) as qualified as a good mechanic ? Also,his biggest overhead is a trowel & the odd pair of boots.

mickdw

bucketybuck wrote: »

If I'm not getting at least 20% on the parts then frankly I'm not interested in selling them, jog on and buy your own.

And its 20% on my actual cost price thank you, not whatever cost price you think I should have paid. If you think I should be getting them cheaper elsewhere then again, feel free to go and get them yourself. I won't cry none.

Its worth pointing out while you have time and leisure to ring multiple different suppliers comparing prices on the few bits that you need, an independent mechanic with multiple cars to fix and dozens of parts to buy, well at some point he needs to actually get to work rather than farting about chasing parts.

They all price check as best they can, of course they do, but they aren't dedicated parts suppliers so course there is going to be variance in the prices.

Yes thats perfectly acceptable but do you often sell parts out to customers at 18 percent above full retail from main dealer?

bucketybuck

Dirty Nails wrote: »

The problem arises when private customers can buy parts at trade prices.They are trade prices for a reason. Then of course there's the vat,23% as opposed to 13.5%.

Tesco won't sell you a loaf at the same price it paid Pat the Baker

In my opinion "Trade prices" became meaningless a long long time ago. Any guy off the street can go to a dealer or motor factor and get the same prices as the independent mechanic can.

It's simple economics, one motor factor started selling cheaper to the general public and the rest had to follow or be left behind.

Used to be there were trade customers and retail customers, now there are just customers full stop.

Dirty Nails

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion "Trade prices" became meaningless a long long time ago. Any guy off the street can go to a dealer or motor factor and get the same prices as the independent mechanic can.

It's simple economics, one motor factor started selling cheaper to the general public and the rest had to follow or be left behind.

Used to be there were trade customers and retail customers, now there are just customers full stop.

That's very true. They were the days that even garage staff didn't get proper discount

bucketybuck

mickdw wrote: »

Yes thats perfectly acceptable but do you often sell parts out to customers at 18 percent above full retail from main dealer?

If I had to pay full retail from the main dealer in the first place, then yes I am sticking a mark up on top of that. If I can't do that then refer to my request to go get them yourself and save me the hassle.

And please don't assume that all garages get all parts cheaper from the dealers. I have been on both sides of that equation, I have often had to pay full retail for parts and as a main dealer I also regularly charge full retail for the parts.

Again, it is a margin on top of my actual cost price. If that cost price was the dealers full retail, then that is what it is.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

Yes thats perfectly acceptable but do you often sell parts out to customers at 18 percent above full retail from main dealer?

What are you saying should happen here?

That every mechanic should make sure every part he ever supplies isn't cheaper at a main dealer?

silver2020

in many areas you have the "trade premium" and mostly its 15% - 20%

This would include shopfitters, builders, plumbers and I would suspect car repairs.

People in business/trade understand this and expect it, but usually when dealing with joe public, a simple gross cost of parts/good would be shown.

Looks like the place was being too transparent

kirving

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

What are you saying should happen here?

That every mechanic should make sure every part he ever supplies isn't cheaper at a main dealer?

20% on whatever the mechanic pays is probably fine for the majority of bits - it's a few quid which covers their time to look up, collect, etc. No prob.

But 18% on a clutch and flywheel kit is at least an extra €100. That's steep for what is the same work as any other part. Running a business is fine, but when customers think they're being taken advantage of, they'll never come back.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

What are you saying should happen here?

That every mechanic should make sure every part he ever supplies isn't cheaper at a main dealer?

I said on average, parts pricing wouldnt want to be above main dealer pricing.
I think the trade people here are making excuses re pricing. The main audi dealer has been known to knock off 10 percent for me after buying a few hundred euro worth on consecutive weeks.
High turnover garages paying full retail is hard to swallow.

Toyotafanboi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

20% on whatever the mechanic pays is probably fine for the majority of bits - it's a few quid which covers their time to look up, collect, etc. No prob.

But 18% on a clutch and flywheel kit is at least an extra €100. That's steep for what is the same work as any other part. Running a business is fine, but when customers think they're being taken advantage of, they'll never come back.

My issue with this is we are all working with arbitrary numbers and arbitrary brands.

We don't know what OP paid or where it came from, we don't know what the main dealer price was or where it's coming from.

Literally nothing here to suggest the OP was stitched up here, bar they have found out that they didn't get the absolute cheapest article on the market.

Just because one number is higher than another, doesn't automatically mean someone got done.

Henry Ford III

Without markup there's no gross profit. No jobs.

There isn't a successful business without markup in some way or form.

newmember2

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Without markup there's no gross profit. No jobs.

There isn't a successful business without markup in some way or form.

How isn't there - he's a mechanic not a motor factor - he gets paid for his time and skill - that's his business.

khaldrogo

Just going on the labour..... That would work out to be between 4+5 hrs labour. For a clutch and flywheel. That's about right IMO.

I would imagine the parts would be 500 to 700 depending on make

We are usually between 1000e and 1400e for a clutch and flywheel depending on cost of parts and make of vehicle.

Ricta wrote: »

I was shocked to discover an Independant garage in Co. Galway putting an 18.5% markup on the price of parts for a clutch repair. Plus €390 labour to replace Pressure Plate, Disc, Concentric Slave Cylinder and Dual Mass Flywheel.

I could understand a markup from the trade price to the retail price, but another 18.5% on top again?

Is this close to normal or just plain greedy?

Stihl waters

"Slight intake of breath " I'd say he did alright op

Hellrazer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

My issue with this is we are all working with arbitrary numbers and arbitrary brands.

We don't know what OP paid or where it came from, we don't know what the main dealer price was or where it's coming from.

Literally nothing here to suggest the OP was stitched up here, bar they have found out that they didn't get the absolute cheapest article on the market.

Just because one number is higher than another, doesn't automatically mean someone got done.

Exactly - we don't know how much he paid. What the parts cost the mechanic.

Where did the 18.5% come from?
Its a strange figure as most trade discounts are usually round figures ie 10%15% etc.

Also If im adding on a percentage it would usually be the same - a nice round figure to work with.

Im the same a you - probably got the job done, paid the mechanic and then someone said "sure I got mine cheaper" in X.

Op goes off and scours the net for pricing and realises the part can be bought cheaper than they paid.

I posted here a while back about a civic rear axle. Quoted the job using genuine parts and then a number of poster linked to an ebay special - its not like for like.

The other side of this is that most mechanics wont fit parts that they don't supply.

For a few reasons - they get a trade discount and can make a few quid on the part , they know where they got it,the quality of it and the fact that they can return it if its incorrect.

Theres more to being a mechanic than just swinging tools.

Stoolbend

The garage markup covers a warranty too. If you supply parts and they become faulty you'll have to pay labour. If the garage supplies them they'll have to suck it up or chase the supplier which often isn't worth the time it'd take.

Del2005

newmember? wrote: »

How isn't there - he's a mechanic not a motor factor - he gets paid for his time and skill - that's his business.

He had to look up the part number, order them and make sure they are correct when they arrive and if they aren't correct he has to then order new ones.

You are free to source your own parts but then if they don't fit which happens a lot even when ordering off a main dealer, for my last few cars none of the online sites had the incorrect headlight bulbs and all my cars where as they came from the factory, you then have to pay for the ramp space in the garage while you try to source the correct part all the time you've no car.

Why do you think it's OK for some companies to make a profit on parts like motor factors, distributors and manufactures but not others? If a business doesn't make a profit it won't last long.

bladespin

colm_mcm wrote: »

30% on what though? cost?

Yep, take your buying price, divide by 7 and multiply by 10.

Buddy Bubs

newmember? wrote: »

How isn't there - he's a mechanic not a motor factor - he gets paid for his time and skill - that's his business.

Would you be happy if I said the markup is for knowing which part is needed in first place?
How would you react if the mechanic said yes, I can fix it for you, you go order the parts, get them to me and I'll start work.

You wouldn't know how which parts were needed, even if you did you'd spend ages researching cheap prices then research how to get them delivered cheaply and quickly adding more time.

newmember2

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Would you be happy if I said the markup is for knowing which part is needed in first place?
How would you react if the mechanic said yes, I can fix it for you, you go order the parts, get them to me and I'll start work.

You wouldn't know how which parts were needed, even if you did you'd spend ages researching cheap prices then research how to get them delivered cheaply and quickly adding more time.

As I said above, if I go to a mechanic I expect to pay him for his time and skill to complete the job. I expect him to supply any parts needed for the job, but I don't expect him to be inflating the price of the parts needed.
As it happens, I don't go to a mechanic very often, and when I do I've already sourced the parts for the job. I wasn't aware mechanics made a profit on parts they supplied.

the_pen_turner

why should anyone sell you something for the same as they bought it for.
you think all the markup is profit and goes into the owners back pocket
that mark up covers the headache scourcing the parts and any warrnty work because of those parts including new parts and the labour fitting them plus the lost income that should have been made during that time

why should the garage put a warranty on those parts and all the liability that goes with it for no reward

PCeeeee

Dirty Nails wrote: »

Just to add,since when is a brickie (while skilled) as qualified as a good mechanic ? Also,his biggest overhead is a trowel & the odd pair of boots.

4 year Apprentiship same as a Mechanic.

Van & a mixer would be the biggest overheads but he'd probably want a bit more than a trowel and a pair of boots. He's alsolikely paying at lad to keep the blocks and muck thrown up to him.

mickdw

the_pen_turner wrote: »

why should anyone sell you something for the same as they bought it for.
you think all the markup is profit and goes into the owners back pocket
that mark up covers the headache scourcing the parts and any warrnty work because of those parts including new parts and the labour fitting them plus the lost income that should have been made during that time

why should the garage put a warranty on those parts and all the liability that goes with it for no reward

In my own game, outlay goes on the invoice as exactly what it was and is recovered from client sometimes at a much distant date!
Mechanics job is different and ive no issue with markup assuming he can buy it at a trade price
to allow him invoice it out at a price equal to what i can but it at. Im not talking about comparing to the cheapest m factors crap i can get. Main dealer price was the comparison here all along.

trellheim

if I go to a mechanic I expect to pay him for his time and skill to complete the job. I expect him to supply any parts needed for the job, but I don't expect him to be inflating the price of the parts needed.

Cobblers. If he's had to figure out the part number required from an expensive-to-access database, source it, get it ( at his cost until you pay him) , store it, unpack it etc then he's more than entitled to charge whatever he wants.

There's things wrong with the motor trade but markup on parts isnt one of them

In any event what do you care ? Final figure at the bottom of the page is all you should be looking at anyway because its not a choice - those parts are on the motor now