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42 vaccinated (first dose) care home residents test positive (in Spain)

  • 17-01-2021 2:28pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,509 CMod ✭✭✭✭ faceman


    Breaking news from Spain today. 42 care home residents sun Torrevieja near Alicante tested positive for covid, having received the first dose of the vaccine in January 4th. They’re due to receive dose 2 tomorrow (January 18th). Staff have tested positive too.

    The original article is in Spanish sorry.

    The majority of cases were asymptomatic but 5 were hospitalised.

    We know that you need the 2 doses for full benefit but doesn’t one dose offer 50-70% protection?

    Anyone understand this, is it to be expected or something of concern?

    https://www.informacion.es/vega-baja/2021/01/17/brote-covid-afecta-residentes-geriatrico-29263919.html


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    The protection from the first dose only kicks in about a week or 10 days after receiving the first dose.

    If these people are cases now they were infected before they had any protection from the vaccine.

    It happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ Sonic the Shaghog


    As well as what the previous poster said, the vaccine only lessens severity of symptoms, it's not claimed to stop you getting it. Nothing to be panicking over tbh


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭ sabat


    As well as what the previous poster said, the vaccine only lessens severity of symptoms, it's not claimed to stop you getting it. Nothing to be panicking over tbh

    So it's not a vaccine is what you're saying...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭ Sweet.Science


    As well as what the previous poster said, the vaccine only lessens severity of symptoms, it's not claimed to stop you getting it. Nothing to be panicking over tbh

    So it won't have any affect on case numbers ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ Jane1012


    As I understood it , the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting Covid, it just stops you getting ill from it?
    Protection doesn’t kick in till day 12 I think, which would have been yesterday? So they probably caught it before then


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,535 ✭✭✭✭ ACitizenErased


    Vaccine only works after 7-15 days. If the were exposed the week they got it then there's nothing stopping it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭ Sweet.Science


    So case numbers will always be high ? As every lockdown is based of lockdowns we will never get out of them with vaccines

    Lovely


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ Sonic the Shaghog


    I don't know what lads are getting cranky about its been stated it's not fully guaranteed to actually stop you picking up the virus or even getting some symptoms, but to lessen the severity of symptoms.

    If there's some vaccinated people that get a chesty cough and fever and can recover fine at home like most with say regular flu and don't need hospitalisation then that's what will take the pressure and severity off


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭ Sweet.Science


    I don't know what lads are getting cranky about its been stated it's not fully guaranteed to actually stop you picking up the virus or even getting some symptoms, but to lessen the severity of symptoms.

    If there's some vaccinated people that get a chesty cough and fever and can recover fine at home like most with say regular flu and don't need hospitalisation then that's what will take the pressure and severity off

    That's fine . But we count case numbers every day and have press conferences about them etc
    Build them up like they are gospel and lockdown society depending on them

    And a vaccine won't have much affect of reducing these numbers


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    sabat wrote: »
    So it's not a vaccine is what you're saying...
    Vaccines do not prevent a pathogen from getting into your body. They just teach your body how to fight it off.

    Some immune responses are strong enough to destroy it before it can replicate in great numbers. In others, you may still develop some symptoms. But you will destroy the infection before it can overwhelm your system.

    There is nothing special or unexpected about this. Some people who get the Covid vaccine will still develop symptoms and will still test positive.

    Any protective effects do not appear for ten days after injection and you require two doses for maximum protection.

    The numbers given in the OP are relatively good. 42 care home residents (and staff) test positive and only 5 (12%) were hospitalised. This is despite only receiving the first dose seven days before they were infected.

    Indicates that the protective effects of the vaccine are as good as hoped, if not better.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Amirani


    faceman wrote: »
    We know that you need the 2 doses for full benefit but doesn’t one dose offer 50-70% protection?

    "50% protection" in this case means you'll have half as many cases in vaccinated people as in unvaccinated people, after the first dose has taken effect. It doesn't mean that you only get 50% infected.

    Even if we had 100% of people vaccinated, we'd still get cases as the vaccine is not 100% effective. I'm not sure why this is news?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,509 CMod ✭✭✭✭ faceman


    Amirani wrote: »
    "50% protection" in this case means you'll have half as many cases in vaccinated people as in unvaccinated people, after the first dose has taken effect. It doesn't mean that you only get 50% infected.

    Even if we had 100% of people vaccinated, we'd still get cases as the vaccine is not 100% effective. I'm not sure why this is news?

    The 42 care home residents was 100% of the care home residents in that facility. (Plus staff on top of that)

    I take what you’re saying but the optics don’t look good and that’s why it’s news


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭ Nozebleed


    with all the talk of a vaccine passport and it being mandatory in order for people to go to work, attend gigs, shopping, get the bus etc..
    live a normal life essentially.

    we know that the vaccine is not a cure. in fact there are very serious side effects for some.

    it will have to be taken twice a year every year according to the experts..so who's gona pay for the vaccine or will it be free for the public forever..

    people would want to wake up fairly quick....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭ Ger Roe


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    with all the talk of a vaccine passport and it being mandatory in order for people to go to work, attend gigs, shopping, get the bus etc..
    live a normal life essentially.

    we know that the vaccine is not a cure. in fact there are very serious side effects for some.

    it will have to be taken twice a year every year according to the experts..so who's gona pay for the vaccine or will it be free for the public forever..

    people would want to wake up fairly quick....

    Have you got any more detail on that claim?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭ Nozebleed


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    Have you got any more detail on that claim?

    https://www.rt.com/news/512736-israel-facial-paralysis-13-covid-vaccine/


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭ The Continental Op


    faceman wrote: »
    The 42 care home residents was 100% of the care home residents in that facility. (Plus staff on top of that)

    I take what you’re saying but the optics don’t look good and that’s why it’s news

    You could always have translated the article instead of hiding behind the fact the not everyone can speak Spanish.

    Google translation gives one of the main points as being...
    The first cases occurred seven days after the administration of the first dose. The vaccine generates antibodies against the disease around the 10th day

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭ Deeper Blue


    "The first cases occurred seven days after the administration of the first dose. The vaccine generates antibodies against the disease around the 10th day"

    So why is this news?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭ Ger Roe


    Nozebleed wrote: »

    That report also goes on to state that the symptoms were mild and very limited in number.

    Read all of it - Nowhere near proof of serious side affects.

    The last few paragraph of that article reads :

    Last month the FDA disclosed that Bell’s palsy, a form of temporary facial paralysis, was reported by four participants during phase three trials of the Pfizer vaccine. All four cases involved individuals who had been given the actual jab. There were no reports of paralysis among the control group that received a placebo.

    In its report, the FDA noted the “numerical imbalance” of Bell’s palsy cases among the vaccine and placebo groups, but it said there were no other “non-serious adverse events” that showed a similar pattern.

    Ultimately, the US drug regulator concluded that the issue was “consistent with the expected background rate in the general population,” and added that there was no clear evidence linking the coronavirus vaccine to the unpleasant medical condition. Still, the agency recommended“ surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations.”


    Every medicine you can be prescribed has pages of warnings and disclaimer's about possible side effects. The vaccine will also have some possible side effects, but none deemed serious... as is normal for the vast majority of medicines.

    The possible side effects of catching Covid -19 however, are seriously serious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ Sonic the Shaghog


    El Sueño wrote: »
    "The first cases occurred seven days after the administration of the first dose. The vaccine generates antibodies against the disease around the 10th day"

    So why is this news?

    Cause clicks and the need to keep that sweet sweet anxiety flowing through the veins


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭ Ficheall


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    "... there were no other “non-serious adverse events”... .
    Hang on...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭ Nozebleed


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    That report also goes on to state that the symptoms were mild and very limited in number.

    Read all of it - Nowhere near proof of serious side affects.

    The last few paragraph of that article reads :

    Last month the FDA disclosed that Bell’s palsy, a form of temporary facial paralysis, was reported by four participants during phase three trials of the Pfizer vaccine. All four cases involved individuals who had been given the actual jab. There were no reports of paralysis among the control group that received a placebo.

    In its report, the FDA noted the “numerical imbalance” of Bell’s palsy cases among the vaccine and placebo groups, but it said there were no other “non-serious adverse events” that showed a similar pattern.

    Ultimately, the US drug regulator concluded that the issue was “consistent with the expected background rate in the general population,” and added that there was no clear evidence linking the coronavirus vaccine to the unpleasant medical condition. Still, the agency recommended“ surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations.”


    Every medicine you can be prescribed has pages of warnings and disclaimer's about possible side effects. The vaccine will also have some possible side effects, but none deemed serious... as is normal for the vast majority of medicines.

    The possible side effects of catching Covid -19 however, are seriously serious.


    maybe you should read it all...at the end of the article is clearly stated a doctor in portugal died after recieving the jab..a perfectly healthy man by all accounts.

    i suppose facial paralysis isn't that bad...in your opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭ Sconsey


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    with all the talk of a vaccine passport and it being mandatory in order for people to go to work, attend gigs, shopping, get the bus etc..
    live a normal life essentially.

    we know that the vaccine is not a cure. in fact there are very serious side effects for some.

    it will have to be taken twice a year every year according to the experts..so who's gona pay for the vaccine or will it be free for the public forever..

    people would want to wake up fairly quick....
    Nozebleed wrote: »

    So having administered 2.3 million doses in Israel alone they have "13 people have reported mild facial paralysis" "For at least 28 hours".

    I like those odds. Your comment of 'very serious side effects for some' should read 'temporary side effects for a tiny fraction of one percent'.

    0.0006% chance just taking Israeli numbers into account, significantly less if taking all vaccines administered into account(0.000003%).

    One of the weakest anti-vaccine arguments so far, try harder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,437 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    maybe you should read it all...at the end of the article is clearly stated a doctor in portugal died after recieving the jab..a perfectly healthy man by all accounts.

    i suppose facial paralysis isn't that bad...in your opinion.

    From the article you posted:
    Several reports have also linked the jab to unexplained deaths, but authorities have insisted that there is no evidence to suggest the vaccine is to blame in such cases. For example, a Portugese doctor who was reportedly in “perfect health”died shortly after being given the jab, but officials later concluded that there was no relationship between the death and the vaccine, adding that they could not disclose the exact cause of her death for legal reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭ Grahamer72


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    Have you got any more detail on that claim?

    He doesn't. He's talking out of his hole that's all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ Sonic the Shaghog


    Amirani wrote: »
    "50% protection" in this case means you'll have half as many cases in vaccinated people as in unvaccinated people, after the first dose has taken effect. It doesn't mean that you only get 50% infected.

    Even if we had 100% of people vaccinated, we'd still get cases as the vaccine is not 100% effective. I'm not sure why this is news?


    I'm assuming the types here it's a surprise to would be the same ones with the "if the whole world did a good hard lockdown for a few weeks we'd be rid of this thing"


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭ Sconsey


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    maybe you should read it all...at the end of the article is clearly stated a doctor in portugal died after recieving the jab..a perfectly healthy man by all accounts.

    i suppose facial paralysis isn't that bad...in your opinion.

    You mean mild facial paralysis for up to two days in 0.0006% of cases?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭ timsey tiger


    Sconsey wrote: »
    So having administered 2.3 million doses in Israel alone they have "13 people have reported mild facial paralysis" "For at least 28 hours".

    I like those odds. Your comment of 'very serious side effects for some' should read 'temporary side effects for a tiny fraction of one percent'.

    0.00006% chance just taking Israeli numbers into account, significantly less if taking all vaccines administered into account(0.0000003%).

    One of the weakest anti-vaccine arguments so far, try harder.

    That should be 0.0006% for the Israeli figures. Pity the article didn't say that Bell's Palsy isn't normally permanent and give a range for how long the symptoms lasted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭ Ger Roe


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    maybe you should read it all...at the end of the article is clearly stated a doctor in portugal died after recieving the jab..a perfectly healthy man by all accounts.

    i suppose facial paralysis isn't that bad...in your opinion.

    Not my opinion. The FDA have concluded it was a temporary symptom in a very small number of cases. It has been noted and not considered serious. Look again at any medicine you might be prescribed, if most people read the possible implications, no one would take anything, ever.

    Calling out 'very serious side effects' when they have been defined clearly as not so, is irresponsible.

    Draw attention to it if you want, but don't put a label on it that the article didn't even use. Even RT resisted the urge of a sensational description and that is saying something.

    With regard to the reported unexplained death of a single individual - people die every day after eating jelly and ice cream.... that must be the cause. A link in the sentence that mentions the death of a doctor goes on to another report claiming that health authorities are 'on alert following the death of a nurse after receiving the vaccine '- before concluding :

    UPDATE: Azevedo’s death has not been linked to her taking the jab, the Portuguese government said in a statement on January 5, citing “preliminary data” of the forensic examination. The exact cause of her death was not revealed due to legal reasons, but the authorities said that, “considering concerns and doubts raised” over the incident, they felt bound to report that there was not “any relationship between the death and the vaccine.”

    Seriously, stay off the RT website.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 48,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Necro


    Mod:

    As more details emerge it appears this is a non-story. In any case, there are a multitude of vaccine threads already and this one has already veered wildly off topic within the first 30 posts.

    Thread Closed.


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