Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Capt'n Midnight

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624459#Comment_117624459

Allegedly

Strazdas

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624327#Comment_117624327

The Express's raison d'etre appears to be to tell lies to its "readers" about the EU, foreigners and immigrants and without even bothering to justify why they are lying. You couldn't call it a newspaper at all - it's more akin to to a far right blog in printed form, but with showbiz, general chit chat and sports stories added.

Lemming

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624327#Comment_117624327

The Daily Express can be best described as akin to citing Wikipedia as fact on a third-level post-graduate thesis, i.e. just ... don't. Across the lamentably wide selection of red/rag top tabloids available in the UK, it is quite possibly the worst offender by a few country miles.

Edit: Strazdas beat me to it.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The bit I find absolutely risible is the way Sky News an others will do a newspaper review where they’ll take random stories from the FT, The Guardian, the Financial Times, the Daily Express and they might as well include the Beano and Waterford Whispers.

I also find it remarkably insular that they don’t even look at say the headlines from the Irish Times, Indo or Examiner once in a blue moon.

Itssoeasy

At this stage it’s just becoming sad with brexit and how their citizens and politicians are trying to use mental gymnastics to blame everyone else bar themselves for the mess they are in. I saw a documentary on a family of fishermen in I think the south West of England who catch shrimp and since brexit happened(the UK leaving the EU officially) there’s been changes to how things operate which include extra paperwork. They complain about the extra paperwork and also think the EU(the EU and it’s constituent countries didn’t force the UK to leave btw) needs to more flexible and also if given the chance they’d still vote for brexit. I mean how do you square that logic ?

Also, the bitching and moaning over the Northern Ireland protocol is miss guided anger. I’m open to correction on this but isn’t the protocol in place a UK government construct ? That was their solution to the island of Ireland situation not the EUs position. It comes across as buyers remorse over doing a bad deal and trying to blame others.

BonnieSituation

I mean, the way the UK media treated the Euros you never would have guessed that 2 non-English constituent UK Nations were in the tournament.

Not a hope you'll get the IT, Cork Examiner, Indo or Belfast Telegraph...

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Or the Manchester Guardian. The Cork Examiner hasn’t been its name for a quarter of a century at this stage.

I just find Sky News makes very little effort to cover anything from Ireland, despite claiming to broadcast here, they ignore things like newspaper reviews etc. Stephen Murphy does a good job, but the newsroom seems to ignore the place and you often get the impression he’s explaining basic facts to the presenters/audience.

It is something they could do more of, particularly in the context of Brexit, as the impression given in the U.K. is that politics here is riven by Brexit, when in reality it’s not featuring as a political issue, other than being a general external annoyance. The major issues driving politics being domestic ones, notably housing, health care etc.

Brexit is very much more of a thing beyond our control being driven by dogmatism in the U.K. - from what I can see of it is the entire political spectrum here is more or less on the same page on it. There’s certainly no party more likely to see it as anything other than an external risk.

I even saw a french article in Le Point that was portraying SF’s rise in the republic as being driven by Brexit and Irish nationalism.

It was like they did their research by reading British media. I could see how someone could conclude that, but only if they’ve never actually done any research or spoken to any Irish based or Ireland aware political commentator, political scientist, journalist etc

You’d be surprised at how many people abroad form opinions on Ireland based on uninformed, confidently stated nonsense being published in the U.K. - There are a raft of British journalists and commentators who will “britsplain” Ireland who’ve clearly never set foot in the place, or one two prominent Irish connected ones who’ve odd axes to grind and keep getting published.

J Mysterio

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117627089#Comment_117627089

Having cut foreign aid.

The Tories really are the nasty party and they are using Brexit and Covid as cover for some very, very unpalatable changes.

Strazdas

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117627140#Comment_117627140

I sense though the whole thing may fall apart on them in the next five years or so. They're relying on the bigoted OAPs and the working class racists to keep them in power, but it seems flimsy enough and could fall away in time. Even the culture wars may not be enough.

Seth Brundle

And yet another Brexit loss. This time, people cannot properly celebrate the successes of either Brexit or Freedom Day...

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1417045553402286081

Kermit.de.frog

Ireland will face an assault from the Tories this week on the protocol. I just listened to Frost giving evidence to an EU scrutiny Committee in the HOC.

The moment of truth is nearing. Despite careful language they fully intend to renege on the protocol.

So...what is the response of the EU going to be? We have seen no action so far to defend our interests. We have seen meek legal proceedings that mean absolutely nothing to the Tories.

The only thing they will understand is economic sanctions.

The EU is failing this country on this issue and needs to step up to the mark fast because we are being walked over on this now and a land border is becoming inevitable because it's what the Tories want.

Leroy42

If a land border is what the Tories want then there is nothing the EU or indeed Ireland, can do about it. it is their country, their decision.

There are of course consequences to that of course, It would mean the end of the Brexit deal itself, as the NIP is an integral part of it. Tear that up and essentially the UK are back to the starting point.

The EU will continue to try to point out the reality of the situation but if the UK refuses to listen no much we can do. But if the UK think that dealing with the EU is a PITA atm, wait until they have no deal at all. Are they really going to give up almost free movement from GB to EU for the sake of FM between GB and NI?

Are they really going to give up the change of a US trade deal just to save business in NI red tape?

Are they going to put potential membership of CPTPP in jeopardy, along with a potential Aus and NZ trade deals just to pretend nothing has changed?

Frost will continue to bluster, continue to blame everything on a terrible deal that apparently he was tricked or conned or something into agreeing. But, as has been the case throughout Brexit, the reality of what the UK stands to lose is simply so great that they would be brave/mad to do it.

Will they do it? They might, but so far they have climbed up the very same hill numerous times only to sulk back down.

What makes you think that their rhethoric is to be taken seriously this time when it hasn't lead to anything before?

Am I right in thinking that to withdraw from the NIP, and this the Brexit deal would actually mean a vote in parliament? It is one thing to demand something, quite another to have to put your name to it and vote for it and thus be held accountable.

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633075#Comment_117633075

How exactly have the EU failed Ireland given that the Brits haven't deviated from the protocol (although have yet to fully implement it) and have applied for (and received) extensions. The only thing the UK have done is currently facing legal action from the EU.

The Brits have come out with a lot of bluster and blame but it's really for the home market. I haven't seen them actually challenge the EU as I think they know they would not win.

The EU aren't going to interfere in internal UK matters. If Sainsbury's are having difficulties filling shelves in Belfast, that is for the British government to resolve, not the EU.

54and56

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633075#Comment_117633075

As inevitable as Irelands exit from the EU within 12 months which you recently asserted but wouldn't agree to a charity bet on?

👋👋👋

schmoo2k

Within the protocol, there are clear channels for dispute resolution - I expect we will follow those?

jamule

Its the torys, its boris and its frost. Frost will make a lot of noise and alot of lies to keep the yehaw we hate the eu chaps happy. but in reality they will roll over and over and over again.

Its a long time since any Irish govt gave a fook about an assault from a tory govt, after all we gave them their name which has always been quite apt.

RobMc59

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634030#Comment_117634030

The UK ask for an extension and get it so it depends on your point of view who is rolling over..The generally held view on this thread is to take a hard line approach to the UK but it has`nt happened to date imo.

salonfire

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634057#Comment_117634057

The EU took a hard line to the UK for five years, skillfully sliceing the country in two. It drove the UK to the very brink of deadline day leading the UK to bend over in the face over no-deal and to sign anything put in front of their nose.

Hasn't happened yet? Has all the above slipped by you?

Enzokk

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634057#Comment_117634057

Is that the extension that kept you tied to EU rules for the moment? The same rules the Brexiters used as a reason to leave the EU as they were so terrible? By all means, get your "wins" from now until 2100 by extending to keep yourself tied to rules you have no say in. It is exactly what Brexit is all about, to be tied to the bureaucrats from Brussels. Take your win Rob, you won this round. Congratulations!

RobMc59

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634091#Comment_117634091

At least you quite rightly see this is just one round and is not done and dusted as many seem to think here.I don`t know how this is going to end(and despite assurances to the contrary,neither does anyone else on this thread).

RobMc59

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634100#Comment_117634100

Are you aware of the definition of `red tape`? `Excessive bureaucracy or adherence to official rules and formalities.`

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634086#Comment_117634086

In fairness, the EU didn't pressurise the UK. It was the UK that chose to implement deadlines by triggering Art 50. It was the UK that refused all offers to extend the deadlines. It was the UK that couldn't actually articulate what Brexit would be.

Where the UK are now is absolutely and completely down to the UK choosing to arrive there. The EU made no decisions for the UK.

jamule

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634137#Comment_117634137

or to put it more simply, red tape=leaving a free market 🤣

salonfire

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634118#Comment_117634118

We know exactly how it will end, it will be the UK losing.

Just like the UK lost its economic integrity, lost its right to FOM, lost its right to trade unhindered, lost a signifant portion of its unskilled labour force, lost its standing in the world and England lost the Euros.

I see a pattern here.

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634137#Comment_117634137

Would this be the same red tape drawn up by the EU when the UK were members ansnprovided input into its final formation?

RobMc59

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634157#Comment_117634157

Fully agree with that Seth.The only way things will change is when the population realise what an idiot johnson is,then perhaps a more harmonious relationship can be negotiated.Although it will never match what the UK had in the first place.

Sam Russell

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634057#Comment_117634057

The UK said they would unilaterally extend the grace period. They were advised to neotiate an extension - and the EU agreed to a three month extension subject o conditions.

So who rolled over?

Peregrinus

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634118#Comment_117634118

No, we just know how it has ended every time up to now. Bluster, bluster, bluster, bloviate, bloviate, bloviate, cave, claim famous victory. And the EU smiles quietly to itself.

Frost's position is ludicrous. He pretty much told the House of Commons Scrutiny Committee yesterday that the EU takes treaties very seriously, negotiates them carefully in full consultation with affected stakeholders and expects them to be implemented, and that this causes "inflexiblity" and "purism", and is the reason the UK had to leave. To a man and woman, they just goggled at him. It's dawning on even the Brexit supporters on the Committee that the UK's Europe policy is being run by a carnival of arsewits.

He went on to say that "there will always have to be a treaty relationship between us and the EU that covers NI because of the need to protect the special arrangements we all want to protect. It's inevitable. The question is what is the content". On the plus side, this does suggest that he's not going to advocate simply repudiating the treaty. On the minus side, he appears to have forgotten that the question of the content of the treaty was settled 18 months ago - the treaty was negotiated on behalf of the UK by Frost himself, signed by Johnson, ratified by Parliament and entered into operation. It's a done deal.

With such massively incompetent people in charge of its relationship with the EU, the UK may succeed in causing confusion and chaos, but it's certainly not going to succeed in actually achieving anything positive for itself. Or, more worryingly, for Northern Ireland.

As for the UK/EU relationship not being "done and dusted" - no, of course not. It will never be done and dusted. The UK's economic, strategic and even geographic position means that its larger neighbour will always be it's primary economic, trade and foreign policy concern. This will never change. The UK/EU relationship will require constant attention and maintenance and, as it's of paramount importance to the UK, it's vital that they put in in the hands of people with some level of competence and some appreciation of reality. Frost is clearly not such a person.

Frost will have to go the way of Cummings before there is any chance of this coming right for the UK.

Strazdas

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635372#Comment_117635372

I think Frost is mainly a fanatic. He actually seems to believe his own Brexit bluster rather than it being an elaborate smoke and mirrors job. He doesn't seem particularly intelligent though and is probably lacking in emotional intelligence, hence coming across as weird to many people.

murphaph

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634057#Comment_117634057

The UK is rolling over when it asks for an extension because to get an extension the whole UK must commit to maintain alignment in EU SPS rules.

The EU would be happy with a permanent extension with the UK compelled to follow said rules indefinitely.