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Buying a second hand Leaf - a few questions

  • 14-01-2021 12:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    I'll be going to look at a 4 years old Leaf next week and have a few queries. I have been reading on here (I'm about 1/3 of the way through the HUGE charge point thread) and elsewhere so I have some idea of what to look for.

    My main concern is obviously the battery. The cars is 4 years old, has about 40K on the clock and 12 bars so I assume its over 85%. What % should I be realistically be looking for with Leafspy?

    Also, the car has been sitting idle for several months, will this affect the battery?

    Am I right in saying that I can use the ESB ecars app for charging rather than requiring a card? I don't think I'll get the card in time before next week.

    Anyone know where to buy a granny cable without paying ridiculous money? Cheapest I can see for a used one is about €200.

    I've read hours of various online stuff about what to look for in a second hand Leaf but I welcome any and all suggestions. EVman's Youtube vid is very good.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    podge3 wrote: »
    I'll be going to look at a 4 years old Leaf next week and have a few queries. I have been reading on here (I'm about 1/3 of the way through the HUGE charge point thread) and elsewhere so I have some idea of what to look for.

    My main concern is obviously the battery. The cars is 4 years old, has about 40K on the clock and 12 bars so I assume its over 85%. What % should I be realistically be looking for with Leafspy?

    Also, the car has been sitting idle for several months, will this affect the battery?

    Am I right in saying that I can use the ESB ecars app for charging rather than requiring a card? I don't think I'll get the card in time before next week.

    Anyone know where to buy a granny cable without paying ridiculous money? Cheapest I can see for a used one is about €200.

    I've read hours of various online stuff about what to look for in a second hand Leaf but I welcome any and all suggestions. EVman's Youtube vid is very good.

    1. It’s on 12 bars now so the SOH % doesn’t really matter. Assume it’s about to loose a bar (it may not) bit of the current range suits then you won’t notice a blind bit of difference.

    2. Ideally it should have been kept at 50-80% but it’s not a huge problem. The biggest problem is the 12v battery. It may require changing after sitting for a long period.

    3. Yes, once you are registered. You may need a ref plate to register, I’m not sure so start checking that now. Will a public charge be required to get home?

    4. The Granny Cables for all EV’s are over priced. They retain their value for some reason. I would say €200 is a good price as they go for more. Do you need it though? Probably for the first few weeks while waiting on home charging install?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭ JPA


    Are you sure it doesn't have a granny cable?
    Would be standard equipment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ AhHaor


    SOH fluctuates over the year (temp related), what you see at the moment will likely be as high as it will get over the 12 months. My 151 when it was 3 years old went from 99% to 87% and back to 98% over course of 12 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    JPA wrote: »
    Are you sure it doesn't have a granny cable?
    Would be standard equipment.

    Not standard at all on the older Leaf's and of those that do have them lots of people take them out and sell them separately when selling the car on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    Thanks Gumbo.

    1. Yeah, I'd assume it's about to lose a bar but I'm hoping the SOH might be a bit more than 85% Some owners report well into the 90s for the same age/mileage, obviously depends on several factors..

    2. The car has a spoiler charger so that might have helped the 12v battery. Is there a window on the top to indicate it's state of health?

    3. Don't see any requirement for a reg number, I'll have a closer look. Hopefully I won't need a charge anyway to get home.

    4. I'll be getting a home charger as you say but I'd like to have a granny cable anyway. Are third party cables ok? I'd rather pay €200 for a new third party version on Amazon or somewhere.th
    Gumbo wrote: »
    1. It’s on 12 bars now so the SOH % doesn’t really matter. Assume it’s about to loose a bar (it may not) bit of the current range suits then you won’t notice a blind bit of difference.

    2. Ideally it should have been kept at 50-80% but it’s not a huge problem. The biggest problem is the 12v battery. It may require changing after sitting for a long period.

    3. Yes, once you are registered. You may need a ref plate to register, I’m not sure so start checking that now. Will a public charge be required to get home?

    4. The Granny Cables for all EV’s are over priced. They retain their value for some reason. I would say €200 is a good price as they go for more. Do you need it though? Probably for the first few weeks while waiting on home charging install?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    JPA wrote: »
    Are you sure it doesn't have a granny cable?
    Would be standard equipment.
    No, just the CP one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    podge3 wrote: »
    I'll be going to look at a 4 years old Leaf next week and have a few queries. I have been reading on here (I'm about 1/3 of the way through the HUGE charge point thread) and elsewhere so I have some idea of what to look for.

    What year is the car and is it a 24 or 30kWh version?

    Check rear tyre wear is even. If its a 2017 you are probably OK.

    podge3 wrote: »
    My main concern is obviously the battery. The cars is 4 years old, has about 40K on the clock and 12 bars so I assume its over 85%. What % should I be realistically be looking for with Leafspy?

    As others said, the 12 bars is all you need to know really at this stage and assume its relatively close to losing a bar, which is normal at that age.

    podge3 wrote: »
    Also, the car has been sitting idle for several months, will this affect the battery?

    Only if it has been sitting idle for months at 0% or 100%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    It's the 30Kwh version.

    A few pics of the car show about 50% charge several months ago and almost full charge now with very little Kms done in the meantime

    New (cheap��) tyres all round.
    KCross wrote: »
    What year is the car and is it a 24 or 30kWh version?

    Check rear tyre wear is even. If its a 2017 you are probably OK.




    As others said, the 12 bars is all you need to know really at this stage and assume its relatively close to losing a bar, which is normal at that age.




    Only if it has been sitting idle for months at 0% or 100%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭ macnab


    podge3 wrote: »
    It's the 30Kwh version.

    A few pics of the car show about 50% charge several months ago and almost full charge now with very little Kms done in the meantime

    New (cheap��) tyres all round.

    How much is the car?
    I have a 30kW Leaf for sale.
    I had it advertised here last year but I priced it too high so no offers. I would let it go cheap now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    macnab wrote: »
    How much is the car?
    I have a 30kW Leaf for sale.
    I had it advertised here last year but I priced it too high so no offers. I would let it go cheap now.
    I have a trade in, I'm afraid.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭ scudodave


    Front struts have no covers and tend to rust particularly on drivers side,plenty of videos on YouTube, lid of Cadburys drinking chocolate worked for me.

    Screwfix do a granny cable for €171 delivered..

    I have mine < 5 years,never missed a beat, annual service, and one set of tyres.
    Great car if the limited range suits you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    scudodave wrote: »
    Front struts have no covers and tend to rust particularly on drivers side,plenty of videos on YouTube, lid of Cadburys drinking chocolate worked for me.

    Screwfix do a granny cable for €171 delivered..

    I have mine < 5 years,never missed a beat, annual service, and one set of tyres.
    Great car if the limited range suits you.
    Thanks for that.

    The cable on Screwfix looks interesting, seems to be much dearer elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    Looks like I'll be cancelling this particular purchase.

    Despite what the dealer told me, the Leaf does NOT have 12 bars. I didn't really look at the pics of the dash until just now when I noticed it only has 11.

    Oh well, the search starts again....

    BTW, any issue with buying an imported Leaf from the UK? Does the battery warranty hold good?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭ TheBoyConor


    I'd say for a 5 year old EV, the value of them will fall off a cliff. Once the battery degrades to 60%, the car is basically worthless as driving car and is only saleable for scrap. Some component parts might be able to be re-used, but most wouldn't have a market or even be capable of being reused so would be going into the crusher still in the car.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    I'd say for a 5 year old EV, the value of them will fall off a cliff. Once the battery degrades to 60%, the car is basically worthless as driving car and is only saleable for scrap. Some component parts might be able to be re-used, but most wouldn't have a market or even be capable of being reused so would be going into the crusher still in the car.

    Respectfully, what a load of crap, do you seriously think an EV’s battery will deteriorate to 60% after 5 years? are you an active EV owner? are you aware of the widespread 8 year battery warranties even if this highly unlikely event occurs?
    I thought we were past these nonsense and badly misleading type posts


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,347 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I'd say for a 5 year old EV, the value of them will fall off a cliff. Once the battery degrades to 60%, the car is basically worthless as driving car and is only saleable for scrap. Some component parts might be able to be re-used, but most wouldn't have a market or even be capable of being reused so would be going into the crusher still in the car.

    My Leaf has just turned 7 years old, has 102000km and lost it's first bar of health around 99000, so it's just under 85%.

    You sound like one of the anti EV brigade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    I'd say for a 5 year old EV, the value of them will fall off a cliff. Once the battery degrades to 60%, the car is basically worthless as driving car and is only saleable for scrap. Some component parts might be able to be re-used, but most wouldn't have a market or even be capable of being reused so would be going into the crusher still in the car.

    I thought Trump set the gold standard for lies, fake news and pure misinformation.
    I was wrong:o


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    podge3 wrote: »
    Looks like I'll be cancelling this particular purchase.

    Despite what the dealer told me, the Leaf does NOT have 12 bars. I didn't really look at the pics of the dash until just now when I noticed it only has 11.

    Oh well, the search starts again....

    BTW, any issue with buying an imported Leaf from the UK? Does the battery warranty hold good?

    I think your being harsh here.

    Your going to struggle to get a 4/5 year old leaf with 12 bars and if it does, you’ll lose the bar within a few months of ownership.

    The range doesn’t drastically change from 12 to 11 bars. It’s gradual. So if you buy a car with a perceived 12 bars today over a car with 11 bars, there may be not actual tea he difference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    podge3 wrote: »
    Looks like I'll be cancelling this particular purchase.

    Despite what the dealer told me, the Leaf does NOT have 12 bars. I didn't really look at the pics of the dash until just now when I noticed it only has 11.

    Oh well, the search starts again....

    BTW, any issue with buying an imported Leaf from the UK? Does the battery warranty hold good?

    Not the right answer, dont get fixated on 12 bars.
    As others have said, it's touch and go between 11 and 12 at that age range.

    what you haven't said is what the application is, if driving 166 km one way with no stops regularly, then 12 is better, but if its only a run around....

    Much better to shop local IMO as you can see the car and have local service.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some component parts might be able to be re-used, but most wouldn't have a market or even be capable of being reused so would be going into the crusher still in the car.

    I think this might be the stupidest thing I've seen on boards .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ podge3


    Thanks for the replies, lads.

    You are, of course, quite right about the 11 or 12 bars. 11 could mean just out of 12 or about to go to 10. Similarly, a 12 bar car could drop to 11 on the way home from the garage.

    Leafspy would tell all but the car is quite a distance from me. The garage is a reputable premises but not a main Nissan dealer and seems unwilling to get the car checked in a Nissan dealer.

    11 bars in winter is also likely to be 10 bars in summer but I have read of wild fluctuations in SOH.


  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭ cgc5483


    podge3 wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies, lads.

    You are, of course, quite right about the 11 or 12 bars. 11 could mean just out of 12 or about to go to 10. Similarly, a 12 bar car could drop to 11 on the way home from the garage.

    Leafspy would tell all but the car is quite a distance from me. The garage is a reputable premises but not a main Nissan dealer and seems unwilling to get the car checked in a Nissan dealer.

    11 bars in winter is also likely to be 10 bars in summer but I have read of wild fluctuations in SOH.

    That's it exactly. The bars are in one way a bit arbitrary and I think sometimes too much emphasis put on them. I have a 2015 Leaf that dropped from 12 to 11 bars and never noticed any difference in range. Your driving style can dictate alot of how much range you can get.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    NIMAN wrote: »
    My Leaf has just turned 7 years old, has 102000km and lost it's first bar of health around 99000, so it's just under 85%.

    You sound like one of the anti EV brigade.

    Haha, I'm almost at 104,000 Kms on the i3 and it's only 3 months from being 4 years old ! :D

    Battery is doing exceptionally well too, very happy about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭ TXPTGR1


    May be in the market for an ev in the near future myself preferably second hand
    Do any of the manufacturers enable battery to be replaced after a few years, surely that’s the way to go? Or are they at the planned obsolescence craic


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    TXPTGR1 wrote: »
    May be in the market for an ev in the near future myself preferably second hand
    Do any of the manufacturers enable battery to be replaced after a few years, surely that’s the way to go? Or are they at the planned obsolescence craic

    No reason to replace the battery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭ TXPTGR1


    Gumbo wrote: »
    No reason to replace the battery.

    I mean after a few years- surely capacity is lost?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    TXPTGR1 wrote: »
    I mean after a few years- surely capacity is lost?

    After how many years?
    After 10 years the capacity may be at 70-80% of original. Especially the newer stuff. The biggest capacity loss was the original Leaf. Batteries are much better after that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭ TheBoyConor


    I thought Trump set the gold standard for lies, fake news and pure misinformation.
    I was wrong:o

    It isn't. The value of used EVs can be very precarious. It is a rapidly evolving technology. Lets say a current EV has a real world range of 500km. Fair enough if it can hold on to 90% of it's capacity for 4 years (which i would not have much faith in tbh) then there is a significant technology leap and the average EV has a battery which can do 900km real world. I could see the value of a 4 year old EV with now perhaps 400km real world range plummeting into bangernomics territory. Who is going to want a 4 year old car that can barely do half the range of a newer one?

    I also have huge concerns re second hand EVs in the sense that they are highly network and data dependent. In 10 years time a manufacturer could decide to end support of older vehicles, with no further software support or upgrade of bugs. A car that might be sound in terms of hardware, mechanics and battery chemistry, could be bricked and rendered written off because of the occurrence of a bug for which the manufacturer is no longer offering a fix.

    I believe there is huge uncertainty there, and I think the accumulated savings for a motorist on fuel costs from EVs could be wiped out instantly if there is an unresolvable fault or problem that writes off the car.

    I have done the sums on getting an EV. For me, it just does not stack up I'm afraid. For me driving a bangernomics car is still very significantly cheaper than an EV as the outlay cost is probably 10-15 times what I would ever be prepared to pay for a car, which would take an awful lot of electricity units in lieu of fuel to recoup.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    I have a 2015 and 2016 EV, the 2015 is at 93% and the 2016 is at 92% SOH.
    Do you not realise how much computer control is embedded in all vehicles these days?
    Your post is inventing an issue that does not exist.
    If EVs not for you then fine but your post demonstrates an EV mindset akin to electric milk vans and is highly misinformed


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭ Laviski


    Also don't know what sums you were using.... But for me I had a banger but tax, insurance costs and maintenance was just idiotic. Since getting ev those dropped considerably and fuel costs savings is just another plus.

    I did get a new car and there is a premium for that, but the comfort and safety features that comes with that for my family is worth it. If and when this car loses 50/60% SOH there will options out there, there already is for gen1 leafs. that would be in 8/10 years (if I dc charge regularly perhaps) not 4/5 as you say. The direction you would take would just depend on your personal circumstances to make best use of what you have.
    Plenty of correct info out there when you are correctly informed.


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