Time to embrace Unionism?

Haraldkare

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

suicide_circus

NEEEVVVVEERRRR!

And pray thee tell, in what ways would we be better off if we were to pledge allegiance to Elizabeth?

FTA69

If you're annoyed by governments for the rich and mass Covid infections you're going to lose your life when you meet the Conservative Party.

WrenBoy

I.... I mean ... what fresh ****e is this ??
Self loathing to new levels, come on man get a hold of yourself.

Feisar

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

If you're annoyed by governments for the rich and mass Covid infections you're going to lose your life when you meet the Conservative Party.

The vaccine role maybe he one saving grace on Brexit for the Conservative party they have more vaccine simply because they can bypass the EC the role out is a bit of a mess though they are going for 24 vaccination clinics now.

I like the way UK society does not bring shame into every conversation the Conservative government are twats, but here the chatter is the government is shameful it's not healthy linking shame to everything.

Nekarsulm

Perhaps wait for Unionists to come to the realisation that Boris ( and England) care tuppence for them.
When the DUP held the balance of power in the May Government, there was a rush by the UK media to find out who " these people" were.
We are all just "Irish" to them...

TheBoyConor

No how could a unionist party have any basis to exist in the free 26?

What would their platform be? That the free 26 ought to just reverse the last 100 odd years of independence from the UK, amputate itself from the European Union, and then re-hitch the wagon to what is now a foreign country, and not only that, a foreign country that has voluntarily chosen to self destruct and is now slowly but surely going down the social and economic swally and turning into a basket case nation.

Yeah, I think a party proposing that would get a fair few seats in the Dail.

A unionist movement in the North has a legitimate basis - advocating the maintenance of the status quo. Setting up a platform in the 26 advocating a complete reversal of everything achieved in the 26 in the last 100 years is an entirely different proposition. And an absolutely crazy one at that.

TheValeyard

Nekarsulm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Perhaps wait for Unionists to come to the realisation that Boris ( and England) care tuppence for them.
When the DUP held the balance of power in the May Government, there was a rush by the UK media to find out who " these people" were.
We are all just "Irish" to them...

They know that.

rossie1977

Given the popularity of the US Republican party on boards their Irish version (DUP) should really think about running in the 26 counties and just remove the allegiance to the queen stuff.

WoollyRedHat

Do you get days off for going on parades? If so, sash me up.

WrenBoy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Given the popularity of the US Republican party on boards their Irish version (DUP) should really think about running in the 26 counties and just remove the allegiance to the queen stuff.

And you think the Democrats would be what Sinn Féin ?

FTA69

mariaalice wrote: »

The vaccine role maybe he one saving grace on Brexit for the Conservative party they have more vaccine simply because they can bypass the EC the role out is a bit of a mess though they are going for 24 vaccination clinics now.

I like the way UK society does not bring shame into every conversation the Conservative government are twats, but here the chatter is the government is shameful it's not healthy linking shame to everything.

I'd prefer the term "corrupt shower of c*nts" myself.

rossie1977

WrenBoy wrote: »

And you think the Democrats would be what Sinn Féin ?

Democrats are Tories under Cameron or FG.

WesternZulu

We're ahead of the UK in nearly every global index.

Even their beloved NHS is only ranked one place above the HSE in a recent global review.

To join the UK would be a regressive move and not based on any logical thought. In any case I'd be shocked if such a mantra even captured 1% of the electorate here.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

I'd prefer the term "corrupt shower of c*nts" myself.

Thats alright as well it's brisk, as long as there is concrete evidence to back it up not just I don't like them or their ideology so they must be corrupt.

lawred2

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

So you think hitching ourselves to one of the most unequal nations on earth will solve that? Even more unequal than Ireland?

biko

Join with UK. Stronger together!

Feisar

WesternZulu wrote: »

We're ahead of the UK in nearly every global index.

Even their beloved NHS is only ranked one place above the HSE in a recent global review.

To join the UK would be a regressive move and not based on any logical thought. In any case I'd be shocked if such a mantra even captured 1% of the electorate here.

Our infrastructure isn't a patch on their's. They were a powerhouse for such a long time, hard to make that up overnight.

WesternZulu

WesternZulu wrote: »

We're ahead of the UK in nearly every global index.

Even their beloved NHS is only ranked one place above the HSE in a recent global review.

To join the UK would be a regressive move and not based on any logical thought. In any case I'd be shocked if such a mantra even captured 1% of the electorate here.

Also, people don't want to hear that they want someone to blame.

weemcd

Although someone will have to try. My gut feeling would be it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Whatever approach taken, at the first sign of compromise Unionism returns to type, stomps it's feet and that is swiftly followed by NEVER shouted repeatedly.

The siege mentality, the foundation of Unionism can barely acknowledge the existence of the Republic let alone see itself as a part of it. They strive to be more British than even the British themselves.

Time would be much better spent engaging with neutrals and those who tend to not vote. In a border poll they would ultimately hold the balance of power. Over time the demographics will shrink the Unionist voter base, but that would be a slow erosion rather than a landslide shift over a short period of time.

It's interesting to watch this all unfold. If I had to make a prediction I'd guess a border poll called within roughly the next 10 years, with the actual voting held 2 years+ after that. The Pro and Anti UI parties would want to have their affairs in order long before this.

FTA69

mariaalice wrote: »

That alright as well it's brisk, as long as there is concrete evidence to back it up not just I don't like them or their ideology so they must be corrupt.

The fact they’ve abolished school meal vouchers and privatised foot provision out to a company ran by a major Tory donor that is now claiming £30 in public money plus fees for providing £6 worth of food would be one example.


Boris Johnson charging business figures tens of thousands of pounds for private tennis matches would be another one.

The Republic Says No



Is there a place for protestants with a fetish for some Dutch guy? Sure, I was a big Jap fan.

WesternZulu

Feisar wrote: »

Our infrastructure isn't a patch on their's. They were a powerhouse for such a long time, hard to make that up overnight.

Not necessarily, if we're taking about roads then there have been huge improvements in Ireland in that past few decades.

Ireland now has far superior roads than NI whereas a lot of the older infrastructure in Britain is beginning to look dated since construction in the 50s.

If we're taking public transport infrastructure; we're as bad as eachother.

Kermit.de.frog

I have considered the matter carefully OP and I disagree.

But it is time we took our rightful place and joined the United States of America.

NIMAN

WesternZulu wrote: »

We're ahead of the UK in nearly every global index.

Even their beloved NHS is only ranked one place above the HSE in a recent global review.

To join the UK would be a regressive move and not based on any logical thought. In any case I'd be shocked if such a mantra even captured 1% of the electorate here.

The NHS is often held up as some great example by Britain of something they have thats fantastic.

As someone who grew up in NI and who still is registered in NI for medical purposes, it is a mess, and has been for several decades.

Its nothing to be proud of.

26 post OP

You love to see it

WrenBoy

I think we'd be right at home in the New Russian Federation myself, that way we could get a nice dose of repression that everyone seems desperate for these days.

Kermit.de.frog

The Chinese league of nations is also an option...

truth and logic

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

Haraldkare

Haraldkare wrote: »

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

Nonsense. Ireland investigates these matters, others don't. The UK has shut down investigation into Kincora and other homes, and their colonial offices burnt their incriminating evidence when they left.

Don't expect much to come out of Epstein either in the US. Maybe in 100 years or so.

truth and logic

truth and logic wrote: »

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

We should get involved in the BRI. I wouldn't necessarily adopt their social system though.

WrenBoy

truth and logic wrote: »

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

I too love to be ruled.

tonbinn

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

Salmon Leap

Join with the likes of Sammy Wilson, Jeffrey Donaldson and Arlene Foster???????

Sorry, but what planet did you beam down from?

WrenBoy

tonbinn wrote: »

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

Great post.

Hamsterchops

biko wrote: »

Join with UK. Stronger together!

If there's one thing I've learnt over the years it's that just because you have a group of tightly knit islands doesn't mean that they all sing from the same hymn sheet.

Indeed, as we currently stand Scotland is a dead cert to detach itself, followed by NI. Stronger together ideally, maybe during times of crisis?
but this group of islands is anything but stronger together.

We're very fragmented.

Tacitus Kilgore

Why is it that the eh... righties.... want to go back on the brit-tit?


Something about having common views with the brexit voting, 3 lions on a shirt wearing, tory voting, red faced, fat headed, pie eating, white exceptionalist, imperialist xenophobes? yeah, that'll probably be it.


There's plenty of room for unionists in Ireland - there's room for all views and creeds, but no room for joining the UK - not that it's going to exist in any recognisable manner for much longer.

Granadino

tonbinn wrote: »

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

A great post. Though I am in Spain at the moment, and there's a fair bit of US news every night on the tv as well. But I agree with you on the benchmarking. It's constantly, UK this, UK that, US this, US that. Who gives a f*ck.

Triangle

rossie1977 wrote: »

Given the popularity of the US Republican party on boards their Irish version (DUP) should really think about running in the 26 counties and just remove the allegiance to the queen stuff.

We have a couple of Irish nationalist (I. E. Anti Europe) parties at present.
You should look up the parties manifestos to see what they believe in.
I was amazed at how conservation some parties were in European parties and how anti eu others were - it's worth the research.

Haraldkare

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And pray thee tell, in what ways would we be better off if we were to pledge allegiance to Elizabeth?

Perhaps more accountability for the ruling party? I imagine the queen to crack the whip a bit harder than our president, if Fianna Fáil was before her.

TheValeyard

Haraldkare wrote: »

Perhaps more accountability for the ruling party? I imagine the queen to crack the whip a bit harder than our president, if Fianna Fáil was before her.

Ah yes because that's worked so well with Prince Andrew

BloodBath

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

I feel ashamed that a fellow countryman would post such drivel.

The gap between rich and poor is far greater in England and their welfare system far worse for those in need.

The Brits handling of Covid was even worse than ours btw. We handled it quite well in comparison.

Fred Cryton

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

Failed state? We're about to become the richest country in the world by GDP per capita by the end of next year. And you think we're a failed state.


Almost all of the top 10 most deprived regions in Western Europe are in the UK. one of them is Northern Ireland. We'd be joining them if they had the rule over us.

BloodBath

It really is the most dramatically stupid post I've seen on boards in a while.

Still referring to the Germans as Nazi's as well but has no problem with the Brits?

Got to be trolling.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Failed state? We're about to become the richest country in the world by GDP per capita by the end of next year. And you think we're a failed state.


Almost all of the top 10 most deprived regions in Western Europe are in the UK. one of them is Northern Ireland. We'd be joining them if they had the rule over us.

No No that's not the way the narrative goes:P ..Its the governments are a disgrace or should be ashamed of themselves, the HSE is the worst health service in the world!!!! the education system is third world, what about the homeless, corruption, third-world infrastructure, you can't be telling people we are a wealthy country and that we are doing well for ourselves it does not fit the national psyche.

Tacitus Kilgore

mariaalice wrote: »

No No that's not the way the narrative goes:P ..Its the governments are a disgrace or should be ashamed of themselves, the HSE is the worst health service in the world!!!! the education system is third world, what about the homeless, corruption, third-world infrastructure, you can't be telling people we are a wealthy country and that we are doing well for ourselves it does not fit the national psyche.

Nothing wrong with striving to be better though,


Yeah, we are super rich as a country, it's class - but we could always do better in terms of distributing it a bit. Housing poverty is very much real - I'm in the upper-middle layer of salary - and my rent hoovers up an enormous amount of my take home, god help anyone not on good money trying to pay rent.


In the shortest way possible - we would have a hell of a lot more poverty if we had anything to do with the UK. They are excellent at it, just look at what they're giving kids for lunch. Half a fucking carrot ffs.

tonbinn

Those "rich country" statistics are the greatest pile of bull and not worthy of a gram of your attention. Even the mindset that defines how well a country is doing by looking at income per head shows how americanised and impoverished our thinking has become. The real indicators of prosperity are health, life expectancy, education, re-creation facilities, the state of the place around where you live, air quality, access to good food and so on. Quality of life really but you won't hear any card-carrying, market-driven FFer or FGer admitting to that.

The country has become one giant market where everything has a price and anything can be sold whether it belongs to you or not (see Corrib gas, Irish water, Coillte, propert-based vulture funds, etc) and has been relentlessly pushed dowm that path by decades of FF and FG greed-based government.

That said, for those who like to stick to the crude measurement of income per head, it totally ignores that we are the most endebted country in Europe. Salaries may be high but that is only a bone of the story. Any measure of wealth must include your debt and one figure I heard recently is that each Irish working person owes 100K euros. I didn't do the numbers but I'm sure it's not far off and a far more honest assessment. We are like a central American country in that regard and there's eejits going around trying to say we're rich. And that's before we talk about inequality, wrecked environment, no health service, eduaction in freefall, housing, homelessness, etc. I'll probably be accused of being negative now, it seems to be the standard retort in the New Matured Ireland for anyone who cries hault but the big Bertie-led experiment in greed and individualism that has been carefully nutured for 30 years now has turned the place into a dump.

CoBo55

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Do you get days off for going on parades? If so, sash me up.

:pac::pac: brilliant..