Panerai!

unkel

I've had a hankering for one for many years. Big watches, suit big men, the link to the sea without their watches looking like obvious divers watches. Italian style, the simple big dials, the big numerals, the super lume.

And then there was Oisin's best video yet. Enjoy. It is simply superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozNWUyUxsGY

Pablo_Flox

Are you thinking of flipping the Rolex?

Birneybau

Pablo_Flox wrote: »

Are you thinking of flipping the Rolex?

Is he ever not?

Wibbs

The design he got is the nicest IMHO. Most like the original(s) of the species.

He really does sound like a dealer/advertiser though. Seems it works. The reason I say that is most evident with this vid and bloody good it is too for just a guy, a watch, a camera and Venice. In fairness Venice is a beaut for a backdrop for just about anything . Still, his vids are really good.

He's got the major horn for Rolex, yet never mentions the fact that they were a redialled Rolex pocketwatch movement to the Italian dealer's case design*. Well the current Panerai company or dealers wouldn't mention that too loudly in an advert...



Interestingly, these were the only examples of Rolex supplying Axis powers in WW2. Unlike all the other Swiss brands who were only too happy to supply fascists in that conflict(until their cash ran out of course), Rolex because of Hans Wilsdorf's affection for England(he was of German descent but became a British citizen and married an English woman) didn't and supported the Allies from the very get go, which in the early days was a very brave move. I always admired his stance on this. Even then Panerai didn't have Rolex on the dial and the order was done almost "off the books". Many of the movements and cases had the Rolex markings removed and later on were assembled by Junghans of Germany. The owner of Panerai who had been a good customer of Rolex before the war and knew Wilsdorf personally was under serious pressure by the nazis in the later stages of the war to supply these watches and it seems Wilsdorf allowed the supply of movements and cases to help his friend get through those dark days.



*EDIT actually IIRC the whole watch had been a prewar Rolex design, but produced in tiny numbers. I recall a 30's Rolex catalogue that had an example. Panerai's innovation was the radium sandwich dial. He had already come up with a design for radium gunsights so was well acquainted with the material.

Wibbs

Did a bit of digging in my stash of pics. I had a brief foray into early Rolex Oysters back in the day so...(tbh it's about the limit of my Rolex knowledge beyond the very surface)

The original 1930's Rolex example, which was a Rolex pocketwatch in gold with lugs attached a la pocket/Trench watch conversions. Rolex IIRC didn't have a hunter pocketwatch movement where the subdial is at 6.



Here's an order for one in gold in 1935.



Watch in 9kt gold oyster case with 17 jewel movement and skeleton hands. Panerai ordered them first in gold then in steel when the navy got interested and stuck their Radiomir dials on them covering up the subdial. That would have been a huge watch in 1935 and not fashionable at all, so I've often wondered who was buying them at that stage. Industrial divers maybe?

NB Rolex's Irish branch was in Dublin's Dame Street. And wasn't Weir and Sons. Interestingly the list of official branches is different to other Swiss brands of the time. the UK, Ireland, Canada, France and Argentina(very wealthy at the time). No American presence at all and little in Europe beyond Paris and tiny outlets like Panerai in Italy. Brands like Omega or Longines would have been more London Paris New York Berlin with branches in Canada and Argentina and the Far East. I doubt Dublin would have even been on their radar.

Fitz II

Have to say I find that video fairly overblown and pompous (you would think I would like that), and I am a great fan of that youtuber, but that effort surpasses even TGV's most cringe inducing moments.

Panerai is a funny one for me, love the look of a lot of them, cant seem to overcome the sizing even on the smaller models. I must own one and try on for myself some day.

unkel

Pablo_Flox wrote: »

Are you thinking of flipping the Rolex?

Nah, no plans to sell it, it's my grail watch and just perfect for me. But as Birneybau reckons, nothing is ever not for sale. Anyone claiming otherwise is just a hypocrite

unkel

Fitz II wrote: »

Have to say I find that video fairly overblown and pompous

Aren't all his videos?

Cyclingtourist

I agree to a certain extent with Fitz, while it evokes the peculiarly Italian style of Panerai it didn't do a lot for me. I prefer the ones where he's half tour guide half watch officianado.

893bet

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent with Fitz, while it evokes the peculiarly Italian style of Panerai it didn't do a lot for me. I prefer the ones where he's half tour guide half watch officianado.

That will come. He is no doubt working on a 30 minute review.

Thought that video was a little nauseating but I think that’s what he was going for. Appeal to hard core panerai fans.

AmberGold

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent with Fitz, while it evokes the peculiarly Italian style of Panerai it didn't do a lot for me. I prefer the ones where he's half tour guide half watch officianado.

I stumbled across him recently and enjoyed one of his videos so much so I’ve gone off and bought a Sea Dweller Two Tone. I was surprised that I never heard anything about him or his band before. I suppose they just concentrated on the US from day one in an effort to not fall into the same trap other Irish bands have.

Derailing this thread but has anyone else heard or Mrnorth and could advise as to what part of Dublin they originated.

Lastly Cyrus has a fab Panerai for sale on adverts...

redlead

He can't really do the travel ones at the moment to be fair. I think that video is amazing. The overall production quality of it is the best he's done. The synchronisation of the music with the script, the artistry of his camera work is really developing. I love the reflections of the Paneristi in the crystal. I don't think it's really fair to compare it to TGV for the cringe factor. TGV is a bit of a fake. What's usually cringeworthy with him is his poor attempts to convince you that he's some sort of aristocrat and has class etc etc. Oisín is up his own arse, is opinionated and has a super ego to rival Bob Geldof but what you see is what you get with him. I've watched this video three times now (I'm really bored) and I've seen something new each time. Serious, serious effort goes into making these.

Cyclingtourist

AmberGold wrote: »

I stumbled across him recently and enjoy his videos so much so I’ve gone off and bought a Sea Dweller Two Tone. I was surprised that I never heard anything about him or his band before. I suppose they just concentrated on the US from day one in an effort to not fall into the same trap other Irish bands have.

Derailing this thread but has anyone else heard or Mrnorth and could advise as to what part of Dublin they originated.

Lastly Cyrus has a fab Panerai for sale on adverts...

There's a couple of videos where he explains the band thing. From what I've gleaned they were particularly popular in Italy and did a lot of touring there, hence his Italian daughter and his connections to that country. They did do the States and some support appearances for big name acts. He's mentioned that people who are interested look at the MrNorth Wiki page or check their YT videos.
Don't think they're from Dublin, somewhere in the West and some members were related to him.

scwazrh

I usually can’t stand Oisin but thought that Panerai video is brilliant .

Wibbs

Fitz II wrote: »

Have to say I find that video fairly overblown and pompous (you would think I would like that), and I am a great fan of that youtuber, but that effort surpasses even TGV's most cringe inducing moments.

I think it's because - at least for me - it's basically an advert for the brand and too obvious a one and/or entirely dealer/brand speak and marketing. Like I say him being a major Rolex fan and not mentioning that obvious connection? A Panny dealer and the company wouldn't for obvious reasons, so he doesn't either.

Though to be fair to him he's never claimed to be an expert on the histories beyond the surface. He's into the more current luxury aspect and just recounts the marketing bumph anyway. All of his videos do that regardless of the brand involved, even the recent spitfire pilot's watches from the microbrand. He does make very slick videos though and fair play. One advantage of the current virus crisis is Venice looks great. A place that comes into it's own minus the usual excessive clamour of tourists. It's best seen near empty in my humble.

Fitz II

2:22 before he says anything. Jump cuts everywhere, nearly every shot is a focus pull, audio level mixing is Tenet levels of bad, music hold a lot of tension that really doesn't suit the watch and is never resolved, the voiceover is stilted and read with a faux gravity unbecoming of the topic. I cant agree its a good bit of video. Oisin is a good guy, I am a patreon of his. I draw the TGV similarity not between them, but in the style of the video. This world at war documentary style that is totally naff when talking about wristwatches.

Am sure he is working on a longer review, cause there was no information about the watch or any appreciation how it wears. Having said that he is moving more and more into talking about himself than the watches these day. I hope he returns to talking point around watches and collecting.

Cyclingtourist

He's done at least one video on the Seiko Alpinist SARB 017 so he's not above going for non-luxury watches. Some people can't stand him but others love him. Must admit initially I didn't like him but am now converted.

dakar

"AmberGold wrote: »

Lastly Cyrus has a fab Panerai for sale on adverts...

You know you’re spending too much time on this forum when you know which Panerai on Adverts is his from the thumbnails because you recognise the shirt...

893bet

dakar wrote: »

You know you’re spending too much time on this forum when you know which Panerai on Adverts is his from the thumbnails because you recognise the shirt...

Hahaha. Enjoyed that

AmberGold

dakar wrote: »

You know you’re spending too much time on this forum when you know which Panerai on Adverts is his from the thumbnails because you recognise the shirt...

Did he not discuss it on here, likes his check shirts thou

Wibbs

Wondered what Rolex's old bureaux is nowadays. By the magic of Big Brother Google maps it turns out it's an internet cafe/print centre and nail bar...



Apparently it's unusual as it retains most of the original facade from when it was built as one of the first plots after the street was widened by commission in the 18th century. The things you learn eh? When you go down rabbit holes.

I've had that pic of the Rolex/Panerai receipt for donkeys and though I saw the Dublin bit it never occurred to me that this was unusual for a Swiss brand back then. The rest would have been more like "were dat?" Ireland would have been an even tinier market in those days. I suppose because when Wilsdorf first founded the company Ireland was still part of the union so it made sense to have a presence here(and he had a rake of other brands to cover all pockets). Still he kept it and considering he was very much an Anglophile who might have upped sticks after independence fair enough.

Maybe Rolex should do a special edition with an emerald green dial? Made with real emerald...* They'd have a damn sight more good reason than Patek to do so.





*Fitz shudders.

Fitz II

Not a bad idea Wibbs, the Hulk was not far off. Looking at that internet cafe, you have about as much chance of getting a Rolex you want in there as any AD these days.

Wibbs

I'd say you might pick up a Bolex though. I know Rolex are in opposite land to Omega and almost never do special editions. Limited runs certainly, but not overtly special editions. An Irish Hulk would be cool alright and Rolex on occasion do have retailers on the dial, so you could have a say Weir Hulk, though a Dublin Hulk would be better*, but I dunno if that's just in the more vintage world?







*though that carries a risk that Corkonians would beat seven shades of poo out of someone wearing one. And fair enough.

TedR

Just going back on this thread, regarding Rolex Irish connections, if I am not mistaken founder Hans Wilsdorf did marry an Irish woman, and the green bezel on on the 16610LV anniversary sub was connected to that fact?

I hadnt been aware of Oisin's channel, Ive enjoyed what Ive seen of it so far, thaks for the original heads up on that

Cienciano

You could buy the cheap version instead

https://meranom.com/ru/amphibian-classic/vostok-watch-amphibian-classic-170963.html?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=170963

Wibbs

Since this thread started I've been trying and failing to find a very old thread from the interwebs that I turned into a PDF. The original thread was around 97/98. Can't even remember what forum/board it was on. But anyway a poster decided he wanted an "original" Pammy and to that end had found an original movement from the 1920's or 30's. Rolex were buying in their movements from two outfits(IIRC) at the time; Cortebert and Auegler(sp) and they'd stamp their Rolex brand on the bridges(or maybe the suppliers did?). Anyway this guy had found the right cortebert pocketwatch movement. You could source them handily enough until around 2000 and the occasional one would still pop up from time to time after with increasing prices. He then got in touch with this woman who was a full on gold and silversmith and IIRC a mate of his wife and she readied up a silver case and a bloody good job she did too. I can't recall where he got the dial and hands or who made them, but it was a faithful repro of the sandwich dial. Actually now I think about it it may have been the silversmith lass who made it. But again if memory serves he got the screwdown crown and tube from a 50's Tudor. He had left engravings in a few places, the movement didn't have rolex on it and was the wrong finish and the hallmark was current to the time in case sometime in the future someone might try to pull a fast one. So he got his very accurate replica and it looked really well. But feck it if I can't find the file. :mad::(

I seem to recall Panerai themselves found some NOS Cortebert/Rolex movements in the 90's and put them in a tiny run of special editions.

There was another guy on another forum who made a replica of the British version of the Panny which was essentially a 19th century British design for waterproof "explorer" pocketwatches, with a Longines movement, only swapping out what had been treated leather and lead seals for newfangled rubber and slapping on some wire lugs.



To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee; that's not a screwdown crown, this is a screwdown crown.

Made in silver and readied up very quickly for Britain's own torpedo riders and divers. They were very handmade, real 19th century British watchmaking going on. I'm surprised that Hans Wilsdorf didn't step in and fire a few of his big pocketwatch oysters at the British. Maybe they simply didn't ask him.

I do recall the chap's replica while using the correct Longines movement, was reduced in size, as the original made a Panny look like a ladies watch. 53 or 54 mm IIRC and 15mm thick.

Thirdfox

For those who are looking for cheaper Cortebert pocket watch movements you could always look at Molnija and the Soviets - I heard the story that they moved machining and experts from Switzerland to the USSR because they believed in the cause - so older/modern Molnija pocketwatches (I have around 5 of them) used movements that were effectively the same as Corteberts of the time.

Molnija closed down back in 2014(?) but their pocket watches are cheap as chips and widely available on ebay still - around 30 euro delivered from the Ukraine/Russia.

Image doesn't seem to be loading for everyone - 2nd attempt:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-molnija-cortebert-sub-rolex-515057487 - image taken from website here

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/360/0514/24/vintage-molnija-cortebert-sub-rolex_360_8984faebb75021d6535c00aa71f61443.jpg is the image location itself.

unkel

You got to be patient in this game, not my forte. But as they say all good things...

PAM00196



Thanks to two regular forum members for their guidance buying this. You know who you are.

banie01

unkel wrote: »

You got to be patient in this game, not my forte. But as they say all good things...

PAM00196


Thanks to two regular forum members for their guidance buying this. You know who you are.

Noice!

redlead

Congrats Unkle. Coincidentally I spent my lunch break browsing Panerais trying to decide which one I prefer and then I pop on here and you have one! How does the crown guard feel when you wear it? Is it uncomfortable or do you even notice? There's no issue with sizing on your one anyway, looks perfect on your wrist.

unkel

Didn't even notice. Just trying now to force my hand up in a smaller than 90 degree angle with my underarm and even then it doesn't even touch the crownguard (a wee roll of soft skin does). So not an issue

Yeah the watch fits perfectly. And it is big. Officially 44mm and the case is 44mm alright, but only measured from 12 to 6 (top to bottom) where it is narrowest. Any other angle and it is 49mm. Depth is over 16mm, it is a chrono after all, but that doesn't bother me. The Rolex is nearly 18mm which is a bit much. Also the dial is bigger than the Rolex and more legible, which suits my aging eyes (and this stubborn bastard refusing to wear reading glasses until I absolutely have to - read: in the dark reading the paper)

Outside lugs is 32mm and lug width 24mm which is just right for a watch this size and weight not on a (metal) bracelet. It came with 3 straps, OEM croc and OEM rubber and "Ferrari" branded black leather, all the same length. Which is barely adequate, the end of the strap only barely makes it into the helper.

Will need to go strap shopping now. Any recommendations? Thinking light tan leather (orange nearly), maybe vintage. And / or something suede, maybe sand colour.

Fitz II

unkel wrote: »

Didn't even notice. Just trying now to force my hand up in a smaller than 90 degree angle with my underarm and even then it doesn't

And in other news, man who wears a Deep Sea James Cameron daily doesnt find Panerai too big.

Wibbs

It fits you bang on. That watch on me would look beyond daft. Plus I'd end up leaning to my left side. As for your ageing eyes, all but one of my mates is in complete denial. And then on occasion when they show me something on their phone and the text is 50 point and they're still holding the phone at arms length to read it. I've suggested a selfie stick for when that stops working.

sparrowcar

I had a Panerai homage years ago from Getat (who remembers him? )
Anyway it looked huuuge on my wrist, that sizing looks perfect on you Unkel, well wear sir.

scwazrh

I have my panerai a couple of months now and it’s the first watch that has made think I could manage with just one watch

unkel

scwazrh wrote: »

I have my panerai a couple of months now and it’s the first watch that has made think I could manage with just one watch

Which one do you have scwarzh?

scwazrh

unkel wrote: »

Which one do you have scwarzh?

I’ve the 1084


[IMG][/img]

unkel

Yep. That's class.

Is it me or are there several reference numbers that are very similar watches, nearly identical? I guess it's probably me being a Panerai n00b

Mine is the PAM00196, which is very similar (but not identical) to the PAM00250 that Edinburgh Watch Company put up for sale a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akH6HqhI4jw

scwazrh

unkel wrote: »

Yep. That's class.

Is it me or are there several reference numbers that are very similar watches, nearly identical? I guess it's probably me being a Panerai n00b

The joys of being a Paneristi . Soon enough you’ll be rattling off references number like Nico from pride& pinion .

I’ve found Panerai to be a bit of a rabbit hole . You start by learning the history, then you realise the history is actually made up bull **** so you have to go find the true history .
I’m sold on their watches though , they’re the perfect size for me, you always know it’s there cause of the heft of it and a strap change completely changes the look of it .

A submersible is on my near future list

Cyclingtourist

Do Pamphibias count?

Marcusm

unkel wrote: »

You got to be patient in this game, not my forte. But as they say all good things...

PAM00196



Thanks to two regular forum members for their guidance buying this. You know who you are.

No idea how I didn’t see this until. My Panerai is also a Daylight (shocking connection to a Stallone film) which I wear on a burgundy croc strap. Must get it out. Unworn for 2 years probably.

Fitz II

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

Do Pamphibias count?

No

Cyclingtourist

Fitz II wrote: »

No

unkel

It's all about the straps! Like my new (to me) Toshi tan leather strap, but guess what came in the post this morning, all the way from sunny Portugal?

CarProblem

maybe 25% on topic,one for our left handed brethren

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PePu0inUwiM

unkel

There's a "destro" just like that for sale on TZ!

unkel

Long time coming, but I did a deal today on a PAM00932. Pics to follow when I get it, but that's likely a few weeks away. To say I'm excited is a massive understatement.

scwazrh

Stunning Panerai for sale on TZ , expensive though if caught for vat coming in

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?499323-Panerai-Blu-Notte-1068-a-week-old

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799435#Comment_117799435

Nice head on the watch but somehow I am not sure of the bracelet...maybe my eye is just in on Panerai on a strap.

scwazrh

Definitely looks better on the sailcloth style strap. I’ve never had a Panerai steel bracelet on my wrist so don’t know firsthand how good they are .The link shape is very different from the norm .

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799435#Comment_117799435

Was looking at that last night its lovely 42mm submersible seems popular actually.

I must dig out pics of the various models I've had down the years am currently pamless, hopefully I'm not wearing a gingham shirt in every pic :D