Can the guards give me reports on other tenants in my building?

Orlak2410

I'm trying to get out of a tenancy while holding on to my HAP payment. I'm really not happy where I am for many reasons but most of them would just receive a 'that's too bad' attitude from the council. However, on a more serious note I know there is antisocial behaviour taking place. Definite drug taking and potentially drug dealing. I've been told that I will need police reports to prove to the council that I have a legitimate reason to move. How would I go about this? Would it be anonymous and do I risk the landlord being notified that this was brought to their attention?

irishgeo

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I'm trying to get out of a tenancy while holding on to my HAP payment. I'm really not happy where I am for many reasons but most of them would just receive a 'that's too bad' attitude from the council. However, on a more serious note I know there is antisocial behaviour taking place. Definite drug taking and potentially drug dealing. I've been told that I will need police reports to prove to the council that I have a legitimate reason to move. How would I go about this? Would it be anonymous and do I risk the landlord being notified that this was brought to their attention?

Don't they mean you have to report it to the guards, your not going to get access to pulse data on other people.

Widdensushi

I don't think you can even get your own police record gdpr is that difficult.

beachhead

You cannot be given pulse information on other people even before GDPR.But you can make a request to the Data Controller of the guards for your own info held at the Phoenix Pk HQ

You'd have a better chance at recovering the burned books of Alexandria.

salmocab

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I'm trying to get out of a tenancy while holding on to my HAP payment. I'm really not happy where I am for many reasons but most of them would just receive a 'that's too bad' attitude from the council. However, on a more serious note I know there is antisocial behaviour taking place. Definite drug taking and potentially drug dealing. I've been told that I will need police reports to prove to the council that I have a legitimate reason to move. How would I go about this? Would it be anonymous and do I risk the landlord being notified that this was brought to their attention?

I’d imagine they meant police reports from complaints you’ve made. Nobody is going to give you reports on other people that have nothing to do with you.

AndrewJRenko

GDPR wouldn't be an issue of they were to release information on the building in general, rather than any of the individuals in the building.

I've heard of people doing this unofficially, calling into the local station to ask them if a particular area is safe or problematic before buying a property.

I'm not sure if the Gardai would do this officially, in writing. You could always ask the local Inspector or Superintendent in writing and see if they would respond, but it's a long shot.

irishgeo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

GDPR wouldn't be an issue of they were to release information on the building in general, rather than any of the individuals in the building.

I've heard of people doing this unofficially, calling into the local station to ask them if a particular area is safe or problematic before buying a property.

I'm not sure if the Gardai would do this officially, in writing. You could always ask the local Inspector or Superintendent in writing and see if they would respond, but it's a long shot.

They might know if it's not reported

AndrewJRenko

irishgeo wrote: »

They might know if it's not reported

I'm guessing that you meant "They might not know".

If there was significant crime, you'd expect that there would be Garda reports.

Smee_Again

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I'm trying to get out of a tenancy while holding on to my HAP payment. I'm really not happy where I am for many reasons but most of them would just receive a 'that's too bad' attitude from the council. However, on a more serious note I know there is antisocial behaviour taking place. Definite drug taking and potentially drug dealing. I've been told that I will need police reports to prove to the council that I have a legitimate reason to move. How would I go about this? Would it be anonymous and do I risk the landlord being notified that this was brought to their attention?

You need to be the person making the reports which means you probably have to be on the receiving end of the antisocial behaviour.

The council won’t move you just because you don’t the building.

Orlak2410

irishgeo wrote: »

Don't they mean you have to report it to the guards, your not going to get access to pulse data on other people.

Yeah I think they want proof of your complaint but it's a risky road to go down. What if a guard in the local station knows the person you are complaining about or something else happens that you are exposed as a 'rat'. I dont know who I am dealing with here.

Orlak2410

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

GDPR wouldn't be an issue of they were to release information on the building in general, rather than any of the individuals in the building.

I've heard of people doing this unofficially, calling into the local station to ask them if a particular area is safe or problematic before buying a property.

I'm not sure if the Gardai would do this officially, in writing. You could always ask the local Inspector or Superintendent in writing and see if they would respond, but it's a long shot.

Yes maybe I could go down that route. I have been here a little over a year and the police have been here 2 or 3 times to the same apartment (as a result of domestic abuse I'm pretty sure) but not for drug related issues. You can smell cannabis coming from several apartments in the building.

Smee_Again

Orlak2410 wrote: »

You can smell cannabis coming from several apartments in the building.

If this is the worst of it affecting you then you’ve little to be at.

Orlak2410

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm guessing that you meant "They might not know".

If there was significant crime, you'd expect that there would be Garda reports.

The guards have been here a few times for domestic reasons and they have taken statements from tenants so I'm sure it's documented. I just dont think the council would take that sort of crime as seriously as drug taking/potential dealing.

Orlak2410

Smee_Again wrote: »

You need to be the person making the reports which means you probably have to be on the receiving end of the antisocial behaviour.

The council won’t move you just because you don’t the building.

I am indirectly on the receiving end if there is drug use occurring.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'm almost certain that what they mean is report it yourself, probably making a witness statement, get a PULSE ID and pass it on to the council.

Orlak2410

Smee_Again wrote: »

If this is the worst of it affecting you then you’ve little to be at.

That doesn't really bother me that much but if i can use it as a reason to transfer somewhere else I'll use it. It's like HAP tenants have to just accept wherever they get and they are not allowed to not be unhappy with it because 'at least you have a home' and 'sure you're not paying for most of it yourself so too bad'

Orlak2410

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'm almost certain that what they mean is report it yourself, probably making a witness statement, get a PULSE ID and pass it on to the council.

Yes that probably is what they mean but I was just thinking that if there were previous records of antisocial behaviour occurring in this building, then maybe it might be available to the public. I'd rather bring existing records to the council instead of me reporting stuff and then trying to obtain a report that way because that potentially leaves me exposed to being found out either by the landlord and then getting thrown out or other tenants and then being subject to God knows what.

Samuel T. Cogley

Orlak2410 wrote: »

Yes that probably is what they mean but I was just thinking that if there were previous records of antisocial behaviour occurring in this building, then maybe it might be available to the public. I'd rather bring existing records to the council instead of me reporting stuff and then trying to obtain a report that way because that potentially leaves me exposed to being found out either by the landlord and then getting thrown out or other tenants and then being subject to God knows what.

If the LL is not resident then he can't kick you out for reporting a crime. Obviously the other housemates might not like it and could make things difficult.

As an aside I thought you were free to move about as a HAP tenant?

Orlak2410

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If the LL is not resident then he can't kick you out for reporting a crime. Obviously the other housemates might not like it and could make things difficult.

As an aside I thought you were free to move about as a HAP tenant?

Yes he can't technically but he could come up with a legitimate reason and give me the 90 day notice and get me out that way. No you have to be in a property for at least two years before you can move. I hate it here and can't imagine staying here another year. It would be better if they just let me move because I'm unhappy here but that's not significant enough to them.

Samuel T. Cogley

Orlak2410 wrote: »

Yes he can't technically but he could come up with a legitimate reason and give me the 90 day notice and get me out that way. No you have to be in a property for at least two years before you can move. I hate it here and can't imagine staying here another year. It would be better if they just let me move because I'm unhappy here but that's not significant enough to them.

The reasons that can be given for eviction are extremely limited, anyway surely an eviction for a 'legitimate' reason would be enough to allow you to move with your HAP payment intact?

SpacialNeeds

You don't like where you're living, so your solution is to get the people in the apartment block who you believe are smoking weed evicted or arrested? Unless you can smell it in your house, how does it even affect you?

The Gardaí have been to the house so they'll already know about the drug-taking. It's pretty obvious because of the smell and they hardly tidied up the paraphernalia when they were beating each other up and the guards came. The laws on possession have recently changed and now they're more lenient. I would wager no good will come of you getting involved here.

If you've managed to discover a drug dealer who is bagging out, odds are the Gardaí know about that and possibly have a case they're building. I would advise you to keep out of it, you would be putting a target on your back if you're obviously being a busybody because they could notice you literally sniffing around.

Sounds like a your arrangement is not great. Just look forward to when you can move, the time will fly.

Orlak2410

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The reasons that can be given for eviction are extremely limited, anyway surely an eviction for a 'legitimate' reason would be enough to allow you to move with your HAP payment intact?

Yes that's true so even if that were to happen I could move but it would be hard to find another place especially without a good landlord reference and I could be homeless for a period so that's my concern.

Orlak2410

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

You don't like where you're living, so your solution is to get the people in the apartment block who you believe are smoking weed evicted or arrested? Unless you can smell it in your house, how does it even affect you?

The Gardaí have been to the house so they'll already know about the drug-taking. It's pretty obvious because of the smell and they hardly tidied up the paraphernalia when they were beating each other up and the guards came. The laws on possession have recently changed and now they're more lenient. I would wager no good will come of you getting involved here.

If you've managed to discover a drug dealer who is bagging out, odds are the Gardaí know about that and possibly have a case they're building. I would advise you to keep out of it, you would be putting a target on your back if you're obviously being a busybody because they could notice you literally sniffing around.

Sounds like a your arrangement is not great. Just look forward to when you can move, the time will fly.

I would rather not have to go down that route but the council are making things difficult for tenants who are simply 'unhappy' with their accommodation by insisting that the only grounds for a transfer are when you are in danger or the accommodation is uninhabitable. It's easy for people to say 'well you should have thought of that before you moved in' but you dont really know the true extent of life in that accommodation until you live through it. The smell is not there all the time and it wasn't coming from the apartment that has been in trouble with the guards before. I know time flies and all bad things eventually come to an end but it's just more of your life that you are wasting by being unhappy.

Caranica

Orlak2410 wrote: »

Yes that's true so even if that were to happen I could move but it would be hard to find another place especially without a good landlord reference and I could be homeless for a period so that's my concern.

It's going to be hard to find a place no matter. Landlords that accept HAP are few and far between. A reference is irrelevant really is so easy to fake.

You're not happy because of some unsavoury behaviour in your building. How is it affecting you personally?

RobbieMD

I don’t know why the local authority are putting the onus on you to gather this information. They already have a provision for requesting this information from An Garda Siochana, and it happens all the time. See Section 15 of the Housing (Miscellaneous provisions) Act 1997.

Orlak2410

Caranica wrote: »

It's going to be hard to find a place no matter. Landlords that accept HAP are few and far between. A reference is irrelevant really is so easy to fake.

You're not happy because of some unsavoury behaviour in your building. How is it affecting you personally?

Yes I know that but with a good reference from a known letting agent i think it would up my chances a lot. It's not the unsavoury behaviour that's affecting me it's the apartment but I can't tell the council that's why I want to move because they would not consider that significant enough so I have to give them a reason that they would accept eg. Illegal behaviour taking place in my vicinity

Orlak2410

RobbieMD wrote: »

I don’t know why the local authority are putting the onus on you to gather this information. They already have a provision for requesting this information from An Garda Siochana, and it happens all the time. See Section 15 of the Housing (Miscellaneous provisions) Act 1997.

Yeah it shouldn't be on me. I should be able to report it to them and they take my word for it or let them investigate it themselves so I remain anonymous

Smee_Again

Orlak2410 wrote: »

Yes I know that but with a good reference from a known letting agent i think it would up my chances a lot. It's not the unsavoury behaviour that's affecting me it's the apartment but I can't tell the council that's why I want to move because they would not consider that significant enough so I have to give them a reason that they would accept eg. Illegal behaviour taking place in my vicinity

Unless the illegal behaviour is directly affecting you I doubt the council will entertain you.

Why should they if you’re not in any danger?

Is there anyway to address the actual issues that you dislike about the apartment?

Orlak2410

Smee_Again wrote: »

Unless the illegal behaviour is directly affecting you I doubt the council will entertain you.

Why should they if you’re not in any danger?

Is there anyway to address the actual issues that you dislike about the apartment?

Well here's a hypothetical situation. Say there is drug dealers living here. My apartment windows are the most prominent ones that you can see from the main road and I'm on the ground floor aswell. What if my apartment is mistaken for someone elses? Not really as the issues are to do with the apartments location within the building. The noise from neighbours upstairs (their banging around and their waste water comes down an uninsulated pipe in my bathroom)

Smee_Again

Orlak2410 wrote: »

Well here's a hypothetical situation. Say there is drug dealers living here. My apartment windows are the most prominent ones that you can see from the main road and I'm on the ground floor aswell. What if my apartment is mistaken for someone elses? Not really as the issues are to do with the apartments location within the building. The noise from neighbours upstairs (their banging around and their waste water comes down an insulated pipe in my bathroom)

Are there drug dealers living there and has your apartment ever been confused for theirs? You can’t create a hypothetical situation and then use it as a reason to be moved, that’s ridiculous.

Ah, the joys of apartment living.

Orlak2410

Smee_Again wrote: »

Are there drug dealers living there and has your apartment ever been confused for theirs? You can’t create a hypothetical situation and then use it as a reason to be moved, that’s ridiculous.

Ah, the joys of apartment living.

I'm pretty sure there's one or two living here yes. And no it hasn't but it could happen as things like that have happened before so it is a legitimate concern albeit just a reason for me to get out of here because unfortunately 'I dont like the apartment' isn't a good enough reason.

Smee_Again

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there's one or two living here yes. And no it hasn't but it could happen as things like that have happened before so it is a legitimate concern albeit just a reason for me to get out of here because unfortunately 'I dont like the apartment' isn't a good enough reason.

It’s not, unfortunately for you.

You’ll only be moved if something happens to you, no chance of being move preemptively.

Dafterss

Call the garda drug squad and tell them there's drug dealing in building
Call the council as well

Mrs OBumble

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there's one or two living here yes. And no it hasn't but it could happen as things like that have happened before so it is a legitimate concern albeit just a reason for me to get out of here because unfortunately 'I dont like the apartment' isn't a good enough reason.

You are adequately housed.

The taxpayer is sorry that your accommodation is only adequate, and doesn't meet your desired standard.

But adequate is all that the state is willing to pay for, for the moment.

Perhaps focus on your career, instead of imagining events with drug-dealers, so that you can earn enough to provide accommodation of your desired standard for yourself.



Oh - and good luck in finding yourself a neighbourhood without any people who use drugs.

Orlak2410

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You are adequately housed.

The taxpayer is sorry that your accommodation is only adequate, and doesn't meet your desired standard.

But adequate is all that the state is willing to pay for, for the moment.

Perhaps focus on your career, instead of imagining events with drug-dealers, so that you can earn enough to provide accommodation of your desired standard for yourself.



Oh - and good luck in finding yourself a neighbourhood without any people who use drugs.

That's the attitude that I'm up against unfortunately but at the end of the day it is just sour grapes. Just because someone is availing of benefits doesn't mean they have tried less than people who have never needed to avail of them. I think people who dont avail of benefits would rather see people like me unhappy because it makes them feel better about themselves and it reassures their own self esteem and ego.

Orlak2410

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You are adequately housed.

The taxpayer is sorry that your accommodation is only adequate, and doesn't meet your desired standard.

But adequate is all that the state is willing to pay for, for the moment.

Perhaps focus on your career, instead of imagining events with drug-dealers, so that you can earn enough to provide accommodation of your desired standard for yourself.



Oh - and good luck in finding yourself a neighbourhood without any people who use drugs.

It doesn't cost the taxpayer any more money if I move than it does if I stay so it's just punishing the disadvantaged for being disadvantaged. Perhaps you should have at least one chance to move instead of it being too late as soon as move in somewhere.

Caranica

Orlak2410 wrote: »

That's the attitude that I'm up against unfortunately but at the end of the day it is just sour grapes. Just because someone is availing of benefits doesn't mean they have tried less than people who have never needed to avail of them. I think people who dont avail of benefits would rather see people like me unhappy because it makes them feel better about themselves and it reassures their own self esteem and ego.

Nothing to do with sour grapes. You are adequately housed in the eyes of the authorities. Being happy with where you're living is not a requirement. You can have noisy neighbours, dodgy neighbours and noisy plumbing in top end developments, it's not specific to people on HAP. You know you don't have grounds to be granted an early move so your options are to stay where you are until you are allowed to move, or leave. Finding a rental in Level 5 lockdown is next to impossible.

student7890

I sympathize with the op.
There's nothing worse than feeling trapped somewhere you really dislike.

I thought after two years in a HAP tenancy you could swap your tenancy with someone else on HAP who wants to relocate?

The alternative is to obtain some sort of grant to improve the place you are currently staying e.g. sound proofing to keep noise and smells out.

Orlak2410

student7890 wrote: »

I sympathize with the op.
There's nothing worse than feeling trapped somewhere you really dislike.

I thought after two years in a HAP tenancy you could swap your tenancy with someone else on HAP who wants to relocate?

The alternative is to obtain some sort of grant to improve the place you are currently staying e.g. sound proofing to keep noise and smells out.

Yeah after two years you can move to another property so I still have another year until I can do that. I think it is the landlord responsibility to ensure the pipes are soundproofed. Like I remember growing up in my house the pipes weren't insulated and when flushing the toilet, showering and having water running it was terribly noisy but I was living with my family so that was different whereas now there's two apartments above me and their wastewater is going down the pipe in my toilet and I dont even know them so it really bothers me.

Orlak2410

Orlak2410 wrote: »

It doesn't cost the taxpayer any more money if I move than it does if I stay so it's just punishing the disadvantaged for being disadvantaged. Perhaps you should have at least one chance to move instead of it being too late as soon as move in somewhere.

Even if that was fairer, it would add a significant amount of delay in assigning and re-assigning property. It would add to the overall housing crisis. At least this system, unfair as it may be, is more certain.

Any chance you could get permission from the landlord to insulate and box off the pipes yourself? Hardly that big a job to do and would make the place a small bit nicer for you.

Orlak2410

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even if that was fairer, it would add a significant amount of delay in assigning and re-assigning property. It would add to the overall housing crisis. At least this system, unfair as it may be, is more certain.

Any chance you could get permission from the landlord to insulate and box off the pipes yourself? Hardly that big a job to do and would make the place a small bit nicer for you.

Theres a pipe going down the wall in my bathroom that's covered by tiles so it would mean removing the tiles and insulating the pipe and then covering the pipe back up

Caranica

It is a requirement of the Housing Standards Regulations for rented properties that sanitary pipes are insulated. See section 5(2) http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print

You can report this to the Council and they can require your landlord to remedy the situation.

riclad

You can transfer to another, area, eg i live in area x, looking for 1bed flat in area y,
eg someone might want to live in area,x , they do a swap with you, the council allow this as long as you are not in arrears , re rent payments

my friend lived in a large block, dublin 2, 300 people living there ,she never had any problems with any form of antisocial behavior.
she was very happy to live there for 12 years .
so you are saying theres nothing significant happening to you,
you dont like living there,
so you are trying to find a reason to move out.

hurleronditch

Orlak2410 wrote: »

That's the attitude that I'm up against unfortunately but at the end of the day it is just sour grapes. Just because someone is availing of benefits doesn't mean they have tried less than people who have never needed to avail of them. I think people who dont avail of benefits would rather see people like me unhappy because it makes them feel better about themselves and it reassures their own self esteem and ego.

There’s no need to go the perceived victim route either.

Is your apartment, dry, reasonably well insulated, secure, with a working toilet and hot water, somewhere to wash yourself and your clothes and to store and cook food, and is it in an area reasonably convenient to your life needs like family, education or work, and living in, entering and exiting the apartment is safe and not threatening.

If you can answer in the affirmative to all of those questions, no one has any obligation to entertain any of your complaints. If you can find better accommodation, that’s great for you, but by the sounds of it you are well housed.

Inventing a perceived scene from the wire in your apartment block to try get a move because a few young lads smoke weed whilst playing Xbox on a Thursday night is not going to do you any favours.

Orlak2410

Caranica wrote: »

It is a requirement of the Housing Standards Regulations for rented properties that sanitary pipes are insulated. See section 5(2) http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print

You can report this to the Council and they can require your landlord to remedy the situation.

I dont think he would be happy if I were to report that to the council but it's too big an issue too ignore.

Orlak2410

hurleronditch wrote: »

There’s no need to go the perceived victim route either.

Is your apartment, dry, reasonably well insulated, secure, with a working toilet and hot water, somewhere to wash yourself and your clothes and to store and cook food, and is it in an area reasonably convenient to your life needs like family, education or work, and living in, entering and exiting the apartment is safe and not threatening.

If you can answer in the affirmative to all of those questions, no one has any obligation to entertain any of your complaints. If you can find better accommodation, that’s great for you, but by the sounds of it you are well housed.

Inventing a perceived scene from the wire in your apartment block to try get a move because a few young lads smoke weed whilst playing Xbox on a Thursday night is not going to do you any favours.

I suppose it goes back to the old saying 'beggers can't be choosers' but you have to understand if you were in my position and you wanted to move and the only way that you could move is to find an issue with the place that would warrant a move in the eyes of the council then you would.

Caranica

Orlak2410 wrote: »

I dont think he would be happy if I were to report that to the council but it's too big an issue too ignore.

It's a legal requirement. His happiness doesn't come into it, if you want it fixed report it.

Bicyclette

This sort of thing really annoys me.

Someone I know bought an apartment in a low-level and at the time very nice complex. It was low enough budget but the person is working full time and not entitled to any handouts. The family from hell moved in underneath them. Loud music until all hours. When there isn't loud music, he is beating the sh1t out her in front of the children (the screams of the women and the children can be heard). My friend is too afraid to call the Gardaí (for reasons I won't go into but associated with the neighbours) but others have called them. Nothing is ever done. My friend is harassed by the children when they go out (name calling and worse). There is a strong smell of weed when she passes their door. And there have been lots of people coming, going and staying overnight throughout the pandemic.

The friend was on the verge of a breakdown recently because they cannot sleep at night and they are up early each morning to do work that requires a lot of concentration. The cumulative stress is really impacting on them.

My friend cannot afford to move. The family underneath on the other hand are apparently waiting for a council house and expect to be rehoused very soon. The landlord's handlord's hands are tied, they cannot do anything. And the family were given a glowing reference by their previous landlord.

Orlak2410

Bicyclette wrote: »

This sort of thing really annoys me.

Someone I know bought an apartment in a low-level and at the time very nice complex. It was low enough budget but the person is working full time and not entitled to any handouts. The family from hell moved in underneath them. Loud music until all hours. When there isn't loud music, he is beating the sh1t out her in front of the children (the screams of the women and the children can be heard). My friend is too afraid to call the Gardaí (for reasons I won't go into but associated with the neighbours) but others have called them. Nothing is ever done. My friend is harassed by the children when they go out (name calling and worse). There is a strong smell of weed when she passes their door. And there have been lots of people coming, going and staying overnight throughout the pandemic.

The friend was on the verge of a breakdown recently because they cannot sleep at night and they are up early each morning to do work that requires a lot of concentration. The cumulative stress is really impacting on them.

My friend cannot afford to move. The family underneath on the other hand are apparently waiting for a council house and expect to be rehoused very soon. The landlord's handlord's hands are tied, they cannot do anything. And the family were given a glowing reference by their previous landlord.

That's sounds terrible but it's a different situation to mine. Your friend is able to move if they find another property they can afford and hopefully they will. My issue is the fact that because I'm on HAP I am being treated like a second class citizen. I'm not happy where I am and if I want to find somewhere else so why can't I? It doesn't cost the state any more money and I wouldn't have to go and find illegal fault with the building in order to convince the council to let me move. Just another way of punishing those less fortunate in order to give those who can afford to pay their own way a pat on the back.

AndrewJRenko

Orlak2410 wrote: »

That's sounds terrible but it's a different situation to mine. Your friend is able to move if they find another property they can afford and hopefully they will. My issue is the fact that because I'm on HAP I am being treated like a second class citizen. I'm not happy where I am and if I want to find somewhere else so why can't I? It doesn't cost the state any more money and I wouldn't have to go and find illegal fault with the building in order to convince the council to let me move. Just another way of punishing those less fortunate in order to give those who can afford to pay their own way a pat on the back.

You're being treated the same as any tenant with a fixed term lease.