The way forward for LC2021

Bobtheman

Both unions dysfunctional in their own way.
Both won't fight for anything. The Asti does the grand Old Duke of York thing but that's it.
I think the whole situation is still in flux. Could even be changed by tomorrow.
The Asti are in a **** off humour so I would not predict a quick roll over. This might contradict what I said above but my point above concerns general industrial action
This action falls under health and safety.
We are back to the contradicton of moving a million students while everybody else is in lockdown?!!

micks_address

Bobtheman wrote: »

Both unions dysfunctional in their own way.
Both won't fight for anything. The Asti does the grand Old Duke of York thing but that's it.
I think the whole situation is still in flux. Could even be changed by tomorrow.
The Asti are in a **** off humour so I would not predict a quick roll over. This might contradict what I said above but my point above concerns general industrial action
This action falls under health and safety.
We are back to the contradicton of moving a million students while everybody else is in lockdown?!!

i thought it was like 60k moving people if they brought back special needs in primary and leaving cert?

Bobtheman

Yes but the plan is a phased return so by the end of March they will have everyone back.
Though given it took 4 weeks plus to negotiate special needs who knows.

shesty

ethical wrote: »

So let them cop the fcuk on and do the corect thing as and when the Medical experts give them the all clear and tell the truth to all.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of this happening any time soon, and that's not just in relation to schools.

Look at this morning's headlines. Leo telling his party Level5 til sometime in April, FF taking it as some time at the end of May.

It will be L5 until as and when Tony Holohan decides it might be safe to open a few shops and nothing else. Never mind that we are facing into the exact same mistakes we made last year - heading into longer days, nicer weather, numbers falling - but we are going to stay locked up. If we wait for the "medical all-clear", at a push (and a very optimistic one) we MIGHT get there in September (for the record by the way, I also think there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening) - right in time for the incoming Winter again, and so the merry-go-round starts all over again. If people actually think about it, the next few weeks are the best time to reopen. There is an element of seasonality to this thing, it appears to fall off during the summer months - be that due to people being outdoors or what, I do not know - so we should USE those months.

The fact is the end goal is changing constantly, do we want cases at a certain low, do we want a certain percentage vaccinated, do we want ICU numbers at a particular level - who the f**k knows???The whole thing has lost all credibility at this point, and the end game seems to be stay locked up tight til we have vaccinated you all (on our programme that we cannot verify, by the way), and then we all cross our fingers that boosters aren't needed and vaccinations are enough to deal with any incoming mutations.

There will be no magical medical all-clear moment. All there will be is people deciding/realising that life needs to go on, and starting to get on with it. Waiting for a lightbulb moment is going to be a long wait.

I apologise for the rant, but today I have had enough.

Mardy Bum

The TUI and INTO executives are subsections of the DES. Similar to the SEC.

Treppen

History Queen wrote: »

I wish the unions would work together, they really need to be a united front.

I wish people would stop with press releases when they have gotten no consensus from the other stakeholders.

Ethical called it perfectly above, it's going to drag in to next week l, like car on 2 wheels and the driver doesnt see the sparks flying, just because unions have to say "hold on, we didn't agree to any such thing" after the latest pronouncement from glory hunters and game players in politics who are trying to manipulate the narrative.

Get a consensus, but before that , agree to announce the outcome together. Not on morning interviews or Friday Night ramblings about sfa.

Mardy Bum

The nasty opinion pieces filled with veiled jibes and uncredited comments from politicians are appearing again. Great to see the propagandists are getting work still.

Bobtheman

I think the credibility of the government is low. The Asti is still in f off mode.
Thus we will see LC students definitely back in March beyond that you would be foolish to predict.
LC back sometime in March beyond that who knows.

French Toast

It was the 19th of March last year that the oral exams were cancelled. It'll definitely be interesting to see what way they'll be approached this year.

Rosita

French Toast wrote: »

It was the 19th of March last year that the oral exams were cancelled. It'll definitely be interesting to see what way they'll be approached this year.

And at that stage all examiners had been appointed, all conferences held and the whole system was ready to go. Herculean task ahead if they are to proceed as normal.

Something tells me the 'clarity' on the LC that the Taoiseach promises will be just clear chaos.

deiseindublin

History Queen wrote: »

I wish the unions would work together, they really need to be a united front.

I really don't think TUI care about 2nd level any more. I attended a branch meeting recently and was shocked at the focus that there was on PLC and 3rd level.

History Queen

deiseindublin wrote: »

I really don't think TUI care about 2nd level any more. I attended a branch meeting recently and was shocked at the focus that there was on PLC and 3rd level.

That's not the impression I get at our branch but there's only two further ed reps in attendance usually. In fairness the Union represent more than one sector so time has to be given to both. It probably depends on turn out at meetings as to what gets prioritised. Members do set the agenda.

Treppen

Delighted ASTI came out and refused the predicted grades option as the go-to plan from government.

It's very clear now the department have zero plans for exam sitting . Have they even ordered the papers yet.

Random sample

Treppen wrote: »

Delighted ASTI came out and refused the predicted grades option as the go-to plan from government.

It's very clear now the department have zero plans for exam sitting . Have they even ordered the papers yet.

I thought the papers were printed and all, and that’s why they couldn’t have further adjustments made to them.

carr62

Well I'm devestated. Have a student in tears here. Can't go back to school due to having to protect a family member with terminal illness. Has been consistently tested when was in school sept to Dec, and online since. Tests almost weekly. Sobbing in bedroom now....I need to go console, but do I understand this development correctly, are ASTI pushing for sitting the physical exam? I've never been so concerned for my child as I am this evening.

Treppen

Random sample wrote: »

I thought the papers were printed and all, and that’s why they couldn’t have further adjustments made to them.

It's easy enough issue addendums. Easy for teachers to fill students in also.

Just saw Kieran Christie there on RTE , he pointed out that no recruitment had taken place so it showed the government aren't really considering exams.

Random sample

Treppen wrote: »

It's easy enough issue addendums. Easy for teachers to fill students in also.

Just saw Kieran Christie there on RTE , he pointed out that no recruitment had taken place so it showed the government aren't really considering exams.

I’m glad someone has finally pointed that out.

Rosita

Random sample wrote: »

I thought the papers were printed and all, and that’s why they couldn’t have further adjustments made to them.

This would surely be a very weak reason not to make adjustments to a significant exam.

Random sample

carr62 wrote: »

Well I'm devestated. Have a student in tears here. Can't go back to school due to having to protect a family member with terminal illness. Has been consistently tested when was in school sept to Dec, and online since. Tests almost weekly. Sobbing in bedroom now....I need to go console, but do I understand this development correctly, are ASTI pushing for sitting the physical exam? I've never been so concerned for my child as I am this evening.

I’m really sorry to hear that.

The asti have always favoured an exam to take place this year. If there are exams, run by the state exams commission, then the bell curve will ensure that there’s a fair distribution of results.

If there are predictive grades, it will not be possible to ensure that will happen. There are too many variables, and in a lot of cases teachers will run some sort of exams to try to get some data on these kids, which will not be as fair on them as the state exams.

Random sample

Rosita wrote: »

This would surely be a very weak reason not to make adjustments to a significant exam.

Absolutely. But I saw it floated a few weeks ago.

Treppen

carr62 wrote: »

Well I'm devestated. Have a student in tears here. Can't go back to school due to having to protect a family member with terminal illness. Has been consistently tested when was in school sept to Dec, and online since. Tests almost weekly. Sobbing in bedroom now....I need to go console, but do I understand this development correctly, are ASTI pushing for sitting the physical exam? I've never been so concerned for my child as I am this evening.

Yes physical exams supplemented with predicted grades.

Did he think he was going to get predicted grades only? Where did he hear that?

Str8outtaWuhan

Interesting move by ASTI, I have a feeling they know this is it with regards to Teachers assessment for sate certification, they acquiesced last year , were they to do so this year would spell the end of June exams and therefore what reason could there be for teachers to not spend June teaching etc...?

ASTI know this and are rightly fighting for their members interests, I don't begrudge them that.

carr62

Thankfully my student got a loan of a laptop 2 weeks ago. Prior to that had only a phone. Very poor internet here, on average can get into 50% of lessons. I doubt theres a bell curve that can make allowances for that. I wish someone from ASTI could see the state of my child tonight.

noplacehere

I think it may partially be the combination. Cancelling all orals, practicals, projects and getting teacher to run them is one battle teacher really cannot afford to lose. And the SEC not even running recruitment means the Dept thought they could get away with it. Whatever about the June exams I would not be happy with teachers predicting these for their own students

Rosita

carr62 wrote: »

Well I'm devestated. Have a student in tears here. Can't go back to school due to having to protect a family member with terminal illness. Has been consistently tested when was in school sept to Dec, and online since. Tests almost weekly. Sobbing in bedroom now....I need to go console, but do I understand this development correctly, are ASTI pushing for sitting the physical exam? I've never been so concerned for my child as I am this evening.

Surely the idea of a written Leaving Cert is the default understanding? No sure why it should be such a shock to have it suggested. Just two/three weeks ago the Minister for Education was saying that it was their full intention to hold the traditional Leaving Cert.

The people who should be non-plussed by this news should be those who assumed the Minister was playing with a straight bat.

Rosita

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Interesting move by ASTI, I have a feeling they know this is it with regards to Teachers assessment for sate certification, they acquiesced last year , were they to do so this year would spell the end of June exams and therefore what reason could there be for teachers to not spend June teaching etc...?

ASTI know this and are rightly fighting for their members interests, I don't begrudge them that.

I'm probably naive but maybe they just feel that there is still plenty of scope and time for a relatively normal exam. As the Minister for Ed was saying just two weeks ago......"it is our full intention" etc. And that they only credible exam the current Sixth Years have sat is their Christmas exam in Fifth Year?

Why shouldn't students want a written exam (with reasonable) adjustments to show their true ability rather than be judged harshly on the basis of subjective nebulous factors, like potential 'peaking' for exams, the effect maybe of attendance issues or not great classwork?

Treppen

carr62 wrote: »

Thankfully my student got a loan of a laptop 2 weeks ago. Prior to that had only a phone. Very poor internet here, on average can get into 50% of lessons. I doubt theres a bell curve that can make allowances for that. I wish someone from ASTI could see the state of my child tonight.

Why did your child think it would be predicted grades only? Who told them that?

PoolDude

Treppen wrote: »

Yes physical exams supplemented with predicted grades.

Did he think he was going to get predicted grades only? Where did he hear that?

Well it might have been a reasonable assumption given the Taoiseach has said they were working on giving students choices and the minister said:

"two distinct process for Leaving Certificate 2021: planning for examinations and scoping out a corresponding measure, different to examinations that can also be offered to students"

Offered also implies choice but I doubt anyone is downing tools till they see the options

ASTI knew this going in and I think what they are saying is they need to be equally available options

Str8outtaWuhan

Rosita wrote: »

I'm probably naive but maybe they just feel that there is still plenty of scope and time for a relatively normal exam. As the Minister for Ed was saying just two weeks ago......"it is our full intention" etc. And that they only credible exam the current Sixth Years have sat us their Christmas exam in Fifth Year?

Why shouldn't students want a written exam (with reasonable) adjustments to show their true ability rather than be judged harshly on the basis of subjective nebulous factors, like potential 'peaking' or exams, the effect maybe of attendance issues or not great classwork?

We will be in a lot better place this June than last June , numbers will be floored limited movement, If they scrap the JC they can run the LC over longer period with more centers, throw money at it but will they, hell NO. The cost of high court actions are a lot less than the cost of running the exams, methinks!

Triangle

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

ASTI know this and are rightly fighting for their members interests, I don't begrudge them that.

This is the problem, they have their members interests at heart and not the people doing the LC. After all the stress these young folks have gone through this year - it's morally wrong to be playing games with their stress levels and emotions.
They should hang their heads in shame.

My eldest has gone through crap since Christmas and just wants to know what's going to happen. Its not the time to be playing games folks.