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direct debit charges for membership

  • 08-01-2021 2:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ golfguy1


    hi all
    looking for feedback from different clubs regarding direct debit charges.
    the club I'm a member of have this yr decided to charge 5% "banking fee" for those who pay their membership by direct debit.
    will in some cases add up to €60 to the annual fee.
    I believe this to be very unfair charge especially this yr where we are likely to lose 2/3 months golfing minimum

    is this common in clubs??

    thanks


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ cjfitz


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    hi all
    looking for feedback from different clubs regarding direct debit charges.
    the club I'm a member of have this yr decided to charge 5% "banking fee" for those who pay their membership by direct debit.
    will in some cases add up to €60 to the annual fee.
    I believe this to be very unfair charge especially this yr where we are likely to lose 2/3 months golfing minimum

    is this common in clubs??

    thanks

    Maybe we are members of the same club, got the same email last night. I am annoyed about it. I have always paid by direct debit and think this extra change is needless and greedy tbh. Not to mind if n the current climate. Was thinking of emailing the club, but they prob don’t care.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭ Walter Alright


    That’s ridiculous, I don’t think they will be charged anything to receive your payment. If they were it would probably be .30c to .50c each transaction.

    That’s very unfair and a 5% charge is absolute robbery and taking the piss out of memebers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    Direct debits are expensive to operate. They bounce and you have to follow up with the member to see what to do. And then you need to decide whether to suspend their membership until sorted out or let them play for free for a while. Sometimes they won't pay again and will just enjoy the free golf until you cut them off. You have to factor this into the cost of offering DD. You've to deal with cancellations, assembling and checking the file each month and the mistakes that you'll occasionally make.

    Taking payment in one go is much more straightforward and therefore cheaper. I paid by DD in my first year and paid about €50 for the privilege. I thought it was fair enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,498 ✭✭✭✭ Mushy


    Yeah in my club the direct debit option works out more pricey. Not a separate charge, but it's like 70 more I think. Dont know full membership price tbh, think its 850


  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ conor-w


    I've to pay 50 more to do a 9 month DD payment of membership fees. I always thought it was a rip off.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭ Wichita Lineman


    The bank charge the club for a direct debit facility if the club is monitoring the payments themselves - ie not outsourcing to a 3rd party like 'Fairway Credit' so all they are doing is passing the charge on to the members who have decided to make it easier for themselves by spreading their payment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ golfguy1


    The bank charge the club for a direct debit facility if the club is monitoring the payments themselves - ie not outsourcing to a 3rd party like 'Fairway Credit' so all they are doing is passing the charge on to the members who have decided to make it easier for themselves by spreading their payment.

    member paying fee €1200 over 7 direct debits will be charged €60.
    sounds like a Rip off to me.
    7 dds bank charges would be less than €2 and a bit of admin dont add up to €60
    no direct debit fees in previous yrs


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    Is it not the same for paying car insurance or the like? Is it an issue then?

    Having worked in an organisation that ran DDs (admittedly we were running thousands) I can attest that they are a lot of hassle. And hassle costs money. The 5% could be to encourage people to pay up front as well as covering the costs of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭ blindside88


    In previous years my club has used close premium finance for the direct debit option. Fees are similar to the above mentioned of 5% if I remember correctly. They also don’t allow DD in your first year of membership


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    The direct debit fee is not a bank charge. It is a charge to compensate for not paying the full amount upfront. This is no different from paying car insurance/gym membership fees monthly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭ $hifty


    The direct debit fee is not a bank charge. It is a charge to compensate for not paying the full amount upfront. This is no different from paying car insurance/gym membership fees monthly.

    This is it in a nutshell. Look up "time value of money". That money is better off in the clubs coffers (from their POV) as early as possible. It makes it easier to plan, budget, secure credit, get better loan deals and all that jazz.

    It's not really, or at least it shouldn't be, a penalty for paying by DD. It's a benefit of paying it all in one go. Pretty standard in most places. Car insurance is a great example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,942 ✭✭✭ blackbox


    Our club uses Premium Credit for people who want to pay in installments.

    I guess the club gets paid up front and doesn't have to worry about loan arrangements, late an non- payers etc.

    Must save a lot of hassle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ golfguy1


    cjfitz wrote: »
    Maybe we are members of the same club, got the same email last night. I am annoyed about it. I have always paid by direct debit and think this extra change is needless and greedy tbh. Not to mind if n the current climate. Was thinking of emailing the club, but they prob don’t care.


    I have already contacted the mens club captain and he has passed on my questions to management committee.
    would have thought it would have been mentioned before last night's email.
    I dont mind a charge to cover the direct debit charge but what they are charging is way above that


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ cjfitz


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    I have already contacted the mens club captain and he has passed on my questions to management committee.
    would have thought it would have been mentioned before last night's email.
    I dont mind a charge to cover the direct debit charge but what they are charging is way above that

    It’s not a good look for the company.

    Of course it’s ideal for the club if everyone has paid by Paddy’s day but not everyone is in a position to pay by then. Our sub is expensive enough without adding another €60 to it. There’s plenty of money wasted within the club and maybe that’s where they should start if they can’t afford the paperwork.


  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ conor-w


    Comparing golf clubs to insurance companies doesn't make sense to me, one is a community based place where you would expect a friendly, empathetic attitude towards most things; the other is a money sucking enterprise, designed to rip as many people off as possible. I was certainly never charged more by my local football club when paying my fee in parts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ golfguy1


    conor-w wrote: »
    Comparing golf clubs to insurance companies doesn't make sense to me, one is a community based place where you would expect a friendly, empathetic attitude towards most things; the other is a money sucking enterprise, designed to rip as many people off as possible. I was certainly never charged more by my local football club when paying my fee in parts.

    my thoughts exactly. add in the fact that the club made around €100,000 profit last yr I think they are taking the piss with the members who have supported them despite lots been out of work with Covid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 AnBeagalltach


    conor-w wrote: »
    Comparing golf clubs to insurance companies doesn't make sense to me, one is a community based place where you would expect a friendly, empathetic attitude towards most things; the other is a money sucking enterprise, designed to rip as many people off as possible. I was certainly never charged more by my local football club when paying my fee in parts.

    If everybody decided to pay direct debit the Club would barely make it through January. In most services the direct debit option is more expensive to incentivise people to pay up front. If the direct debit is the same cost as the annual lump why would anyone forego the money from their pocket and pay the lump?

    I think it’s completely fair enough to charge more for DD if only to reward the upfront payees as their cash is effectively keeping the Club afloat for the first few months of the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    To me this tends to show that golf clubs, which are run by staff, have a staff-centric attitude as opposed to a member or customer-centric one.


    What's been said here is - 'yes, we want your money but we don't like how you're giving it to us!' Clubs should take money anyway they can and be glad of it



    Many things are done to make life as easy as possible for the staff, rather then looking at how can we make things easier/better for our members/customers. Having flexible payment solutions is a good idea. Yes, it might cost a little more money and time but isn't that what the staff are there for? To work for the members/customers?


    The amount that it adds to the bottom line can be figured out easily enough, so if it means a member of staff has to spend one day a month going through the direct debits, that cost can be figured out, if there's extra bank costs that also can be figured out. Add it up and divide it amongst the members, it would be less then €10 per member.


    The OPs club must need money, and are looking at the easiest ways of doing it, which just means kicking the hard work or decisions further down the line. They will have to do both eventually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 AnBeagalltach


    To me this tends to show that golf clubs, which are run by staff, have a staff-centric attitude as opposed to a member or customer-centric one.


    What's been said here is - 'yes, we want your money but we don't like how you're giving it to us!' Clubs should take money anyway they can and be glad of it



    Many things are done to make life as easy as possible for the staff, rather then looking at how can we make things easier/better for our members/customers. Having flexible payment solutions is a good idea. Yes, it might cost a little more money and time but isn't that what the staff are there for? To work for the members/customers?


    The amount that it adds to the bottom line can be figured out easily enough, so if it means a member of staff has to spend one day a month going through the direct debits, that cost can be figured out, if there's extra bank costs that also can be figured out. Add it up and divide it amongst the members, it would be less then €10 per member.


    The OPs club must need money, and are looking at the easiest ways of doing it, which just means kicking the hard work or decisions further down the line. They will have to do both eventually.

    This is not only an admin issue. If annual fees are 1200 per year, the Club get 1200 from the upfront payee.

    On the direct debit option the Golfer can choose to stop paying in September and save 480 by not playing over winter and either giving up or moving to a new club. This is not a bogus scenario but something that DOES happen in golf clubs. It is only fair that the convenience of being able to waltz away from the payment results in higher monthly costs compared to upfront payees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭ Luckycharm


    blackbox wrote: »
    Our club uses Premium Credit for people who want to pay in installments.

    I guess the club gets paid up front and doesn't have to worry about loan arrangements, late an non- payers etc.

    Must save a lot of hassle.

    Ours are the same think it is around 4.5% extra if you pay by DD, suits me as our sub is alot and can't afford it all at once.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    This is not only an admin issue. If annual fees are 1200 per year, the Club get 1200 from the upfront payee.

    On the direct debit option the Golfer can choose to stop paying in September and save 480 by not playing over winter and either giving up or moving to a new club. This is not a bogus scenario but something that DOES happen in golf clubs. It is only fair that the convenience of being able to waltz away from the payment results in higher monthly costs compared to upfront payees.


    Have they not signed up to an annual membership? Are you saying they can choose to pay for only 9 months, not pay for 3 and then join again the following year? The club allow this? What does that say about the club?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 AnBeagalltach


    Have they not signed up to an annual membership? Are you saying they can choose to pay for only 9 months, not pay for 3 and then join again the following year? The club allow this? What does that say about the club?

    Was referring to club hoppers or people who give up membership


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ golfguy1


    This is not only an admin issue. If annual fees are 1200 per year, the Club get 1200 from the upfront payee.

    On the direct debit option the Golfer can choose to stop paying in September and save 480 by not playing over winter and either giving up or moving to a new club. This is not a bogus scenario but something that DOES happen in golf clubs. It is only fair that the convenience of being able to waltz away from the payment results in higher monthly costs compared to upfront payees.

    wouldn't be the case at my club as their is now a waiting list and entrance fee


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    Was referring to club hoppers or people who give up membership


    Charge an entrance fee, even if it's only €100 or €200. It will mean less club hoppers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 AnBeagalltach


    Charge an entrance fee, even if it's only €100 or €200. It will mean less club hoppers.

    So people would pay 200 entrance fee to avoid a 60 euro direct debit surcharge?


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    So people would pay 200 entrance fee to avoid a 60 euro direct debit surcharge?


    No, the entrance fee is to curtail the golfer stopping the direct debit payment after 9 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭ gypsy79


    It is exactly the same principle as paying your insurance premium. You pay about 8% extra to pay monthly.

    So some might say it is cheap financing option


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ Bill Ponderosa


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    It is exactly the same principle as paying your insurance premium. You pay about 8% extra to pay monthly.

    So some might say it is cheap financing option

    Just signed up for car insurance today with Bank of Ireland, no charge for direct debit or nothing extra for paying monthly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭ gypsy79


    Just signed up for car insurance today with Bank of Ireland, no charge for direct debit or nothing extra for paying monthly.

    Did you ask them for a quote to pay up front?? Then do the sums

    I would be absolutely shocked if their wasnt

    I am an actuary btw


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  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ MorganIRL


    No DD charge for membership of my club. I'm a 1st year member, only downside is that it has to be pd by end of 1st quarter. So this stops hoppers and people paying for summer and cancelling albeit won't get much Golf played in 1st quarter.


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