ISME getting in bed with the far right

TomTomTim

Akrasia wrote: »

https://inar.ie/membership/inar-members/ Over 160 members of the Irish anti racist network

But you’re right, Bray Wanderers football club are secretly a vanguard of the Soviet Union

How does supporting a football club mean that they can't be socialists? Your argument is bizarre.

ThunbergsAreGo

Akrasia wrote: »

https://inar.ie/membership/inar-members/ Over 160 members of the Irish anti racist network

But you’re right, Bray Wanderers football club are secretly a vanguard of the Soviet Union

Like a whos who of where taxpayers money is being spent inefficiently

AndrewJRenko

TomTomTim wrote: »

How does supporting a football club mean that they can't be socialists? Your argument is bizarre.

How does it make them "actively ‘pro socialism / communism’" as Eric 'take a Gatling gun to the immigrant boats' Cartman suggested?

AndrewJRenko

Bambi wrote: »

Always with the same three card trick: But RTE are'nt camapaigning for the end of capitalism, how are they left?

RTEs current affairs programs look like they were co-produced by Mikey D up in the Áras, The same uber liberal bias you see across the chattering class on this Island. They seem to be in partnership with the Greens at the moment.

Classic strawman, twisting my words into something I didn't say so you can look reasonable when you argue with it.

Followed by the beautifully vague critique - would you like to be specific about what episode of what shows recently showed this 'uber liberal bias, in partnership with the Greens' over the past month or so please?

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

The only reason I brought him up is because he is featured in this GRIPT website so his views need to be assessed in the context of Irish politics

What of his views have you assessed that brings you to the conclusion that he is far right?

Akrasia

Mad_maxx wrote: »

thats not how it works , within the context of Swedish politics and discourse , FG are probably almost " far right "

you cant keep redefining " far right "

It’s almost as if the term ‘far’ is relative isn’t it?

Akrasia

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Gript only stands out as being right wing due to the near left wing monoculture of irish media

How many Irish media organizations are pro union, pro democratic control of the workplace by the workers? Pro increasing taxation on the wealthy to fund better social services???

Or do o you just define right/left in how they view treating minorities and immigrants?

Akrasia

Danzy wrote: »

What is considered anti racism changes as well.

30 years ago many of the positions held by anti racist activists were the sole preserve of Ayn Rand fans, too far economically to the right for Thatcher and opposed by most trade unionists.

That change is down to the class divide now. The Left today is achingly middle class.

What positions held by ‘anti racists’ are Ayn Rand? Give me some examples

Akrasia

TomTomTim wrote: »

How does supporting a football club mean that they can't be socialists? Your argument is bizarre.

I was asked for a single example of an outwardly anti racist group who weren’t communist or socialist. Are you suggesting Bray wandrerers are a socialist soccer club?

Akrasia

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Like a whos who of where taxpayers money is being spent inefficiently

What is a good use of tax payers money?

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What of his views have you assessed that brings you to the conclusion that he is far right?

I’ve already answered this

ThunbergsAreGo

Akrasia wrote: »

What is a good use of tax payers money?

Not having multiple organisations that do the same thing getting funding and then rolling up to an umbrella organisation that gets more funding.

Akrasia

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Not having multiple organisations that do the same thing getting funding and then rolling up to an umbrella organisation that gets more funding.

So you just want the local bodies without any national or regional coordination? Or you want the national or regional body to do everything themselves with no local input? Or, as I suspect,
do you just mean not find any of these activities in the first place?

ThunbergsAreGo

Akrasia wrote: »

Do you just mean not find any of these activities in the first place?

I don't understand

Much like how I don't really understand what anti racism is

Akrasia

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I don't understand

Much like how I don't really understand what anti racism is

Ok, we’ll at least you admit it I suppose

ThunbergsAreGo

Akrasia wrote: »

Ok, we’ll at least you admit it I suppose

Well I asked you and I didn't really get an explanation, just a soundbite.

But look this is rather off topic

I think there is some drivel in Gript I think there is some good work like all newspapers. If its not too your or others tastes fine (some of it isn't to mine) but this need to attach "far" to things we don't like helps noone and drives people further apart.

Can I be anti far descriptions

Mad_maxx

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Who in RTE has been calling for higher public spending?

All we've heard for 18 months has been charity charity charity, which is all about avoiding government spending on decent services.

come budget time when the various parties present their manifestos , RTE will adopt a concerned tone when talking to any party who appears to be lowering taxes as a priority over increased spending

they are extremely deferential to the likes of Fr Peter McVerry who is forever calling for huge public spending and a post budget panel will never be minus some representative of a charity or public sector union , usually the nurses union who of course want more spending

Mad_maxx

Bambi wrote: »

Always with the same three card trick: But RTE are'nt camapaigning for the end of capitalism, how are they left?

RTEs current affairs programs look like they were co-produced by Mikey D up in the Áras, The same uber liberal bias you see across the chattering class on this Island. They seem to be in partnership with the Greens at the moment.

the Labour party ( until they faced their mass electoral cull ) used to be the party of RTE , the dogs in the street knew that , today they have gotten behind the Greens and even more so the Soc Dems , no RTE panel is complete without the inclusion of Roisin Shorthall

Mad_maxx

Akrasia wrote: »

How many Irish media organizations are pro union, pro democratic control of the workplace by the workers? Pro increasing taxation on the wealthy to fund better social services???

Or do o you just define right/left in how they view treating minorities and immigrants?

RTE are incredibly deferential to unions and especially public sector unions , they have union chiefs regularly on their panels , ive never seen this on the BBC or Sky News

just because RTE dont play " The Internationale " instead of the Angelus before the news , doesnt mean they are not of the left

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

The only reason I brought him up is because he is featured in this GRIPT website so his views need to be assessed in the context of Irish politics

But he isn't far right in an Irish context either.

Hotblack Desiato

Billy Mays wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058075749&page=35

Third post down

On the touch site and with differing settings of posts per page on the desktop site, that link doesn't work

I believe this is the post in question

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114263379&postcount=548

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

What of his views have you assessed that brings you to the conclusion that he is far right?

The fact that he's featured on Gript would be a big hint.

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Not having multiple organisations that do the same thing getting funding and then rolling up to an umbrella organisation that gets more funding.

Multiple organisations doing the same thing? You think that Access IT does the same thing as the Offaly Travellers movement? You think that Donegal Intercultural Forum does the same thing as the Transgender Equality Network of Ireland?

Let's focus on reality please.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

come budget time when the various parties present their manifestos , RTE will adopt a concerned tone when talking to any party who appears to be lowering taxes as a priority over increased spending

they are extremely deferential to the likes of Fr Peter McVerry who is forever calling for huge public spending and a post budget panel will never be minus some representative of a charity or public sector union , usually the nurses union who of course want more spending

'Tone'? That's your best complaint - 'concerned tone' over certain speakers? It's not like you're being vague and hard to pin down, or anything?

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the Labour party ( until they faced their mass electoral cull ) used to be the party of RTE , the dogs in the street knew that , today they have gotten behind the Greens and even more so the Soc Dems , no RTE panel is complete without the inclusion of Roisin Shorthall

Roisin wasn't on Katie Hannon's show today, so again, you're factually incorrect. No Green member either, from the segments I heard.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

RTE are incredibly deferential to unions and especially public sector unions , they have union chiefs regularly on their panels , ive never seen this on the BBC or Sky News

just because RTE dont play " The Internationale " instead of the Angelus before the news , doesnt mean they are not of the left

Union leaders never seen on BBC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzWgwEQNtS8

or Sky News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esC6VskGraQ

A little paranoid, perhaps?

Hangdogroad

JPCN1 wrote: »

I see the readers of this far right threat to society and indeed civilisation have voted Peadar Tobin (60%) as their favourite party leader... Aontu being a party of the left.

If Aontu are left wing then I'm Gay Byrne.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

I’ve already answered this

You haven't.

You've described Jordan Peterson. You've mentioned a few of his views.

Which ones are far right in your opinion?

Is believing that biological sex defines whether you are a man or a woman "far right"?

That's pretty much how he came into prominence

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The fact that he's featured on Gript would be a big hint.

That makes no sense.

What views does he hold which makes you mistakenly label him far right?

When does right leaning become far right in your mind?

Do you class antifa as far left?

tDw6u1bj

Having a read of this thread has given me the best laugh in a while, until I remembered that you all really believed this stuff and I'm trapped in the same country.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Gript only stands out as being right wing due to the near left wing monoculture of irish media

I think I woke the neighbours laughing at that one.
These media organisations that are owned by large corporations, or RTE who have their purse-strings controlled by whatever centre-right government happens to be in charge at the moment...are all somehow part of a left-wing monoculture? How do you think that works, that's gas.

tDw6u1bj

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you class antifa as far left?

OOOHHHHHH! The boogeyman!

Quick! Hide under your bed!

or is he hiding under your bed?

I always get those mixed up...

tDw6u1bj

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

OOOHHHHHH! The boogeyman!

Quick! Hide under your bed!

or is he hiding under your bed?

I always get those mixed up...

Mature response.

So I assume you don't class them as far left.

You probably think they aren't even a group but a movement.

It's ok.

You don't need to answer

tDw6u1bj

Deleted User wrote: »

Mature response.

So I assume you don't class them as far left.

You probably think they aren't even a group but a movement.

It's ok.

You don't need to answer

I think you talking about AntiFa has nothing to do with them, it only speaks for your need for an enemy.

tDw6u1bj

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

I think you talking about AntiFa has nothing to do with them, it only speaks for your need for an enemy.

Well that just shows how wrong you are.

If someone would accuse Jordan Peterson as being a far end of a political spectrum for his belief on transgenderism and not see antifa as being extremists, it would indicate their position being unreasonable and unintelligible.

I can judge by your purile posts that you aren't here to debate or discuss but just to insult and speak your mind with no intention to further conversation.

As you were.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That makes no sense.

What views does he hold which makes you mistakenly label him far right?

When does right leaning become far right in your mind?

Do you class antifa as far left?

This thread is about Gript. Why do you keep trying to drag the conversation down other rabbit holes?

Did somebody touch a nerve?

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This thread is about Gript. Why do you keep trying to drag the conversation down other rabbit holes?

Did somebody touch a nerve?

Its only fair to gauge. In a thread where ascertations have been made the gript are far right, the question about where those posters who insist on gript being far right gauge antifa , pbp etc.. theres no point in arguing with zealots.

Its the same as the test I have for people in real life, ill debate US politics with anyone who fancies it but if you cant concede that donald trump was not the worst president and barack obama was not the best and that there were good republican presidents then theres no point in debate

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This thread is about Gript. Why do you keep trying to drag the conversation down other rabbit holes?

Did somebody touch a nerve?

Thankfully andrew, you've never touched me, or my nerves.

I am "dragging the conversation" down the Peterson rabbit hole because some bright spark used the fact that Peterson was featured as an example of how GRIPT are far right.

Any reasonable person would not consider Peterson to be far right and those that do, I am asking for their reasoning.

It all ties in together and is not a rabbit hole. But I suspect you know this already and are trying to shut down this avenue of conversation as you can't answer without admitting you can't define why you label Peterson, or indeed GRIPT, as far right without using circular logic (i.e Peterson is far right, proof of that is because he is in GRIPT, GRIPT is far right because it features Peterson)

Cal4567

Just a personal observation. I have read a few Gript columns. It's a social conservative view point that espouses the native state over anymore EU control for one example.

The Left here view it as far right because it has been critical of immigration policy. The groupthink now in Ireland is to be socially liberal rather than socially conservative. It used to be the other way around. Being critical of immigration policy is not part of this groupthink, neither is being anti abortion and those who go to mass are viewed with amusement.

From what I can see, it suits the groupthink to label the likes of Gript as such.

Reading a lot of their stuff just seems like common sense to me, but I wouldn't be wedded strongly to any political thought.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This thread is about Gript. Why do you keep trying to drag the conversation down other rabbit holes?

Did somebody touch a nerve?

We still have zero evidence that it's far right.

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

We still have zero evidence that it's far right.

It features Jordan Peterson. That's proof apparently.

Yellow_Fern

Deleted User wrote: »

It features Jordan Peterson. That's proof apparently.

RTE radio 1 interviewed Peterson so I guess the poster thinks are far right?

archfi

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I dont listen to LBC but Nick Ferrari seems to be on Matt Coopers show a few times per week and he comes across to be as fairly centrist , He certainly doesnt defend Borris Johnson too much

For sure, I've heard him skewer Tories *a lot* including causing some big problems for Johnson when he's been on his show but he is conservative and nothing wrong with that (I would be left-leaning, formerly a thick leftwing purist now in recovery )

Mad_maxx

Hangdogroad wrote: »

If Aontu are left wing then I'm Gay Byrne.

they are left wing economically , they are opposed to abortion but you can be opposed to abortion and left wing , my mother is conservative on social issues but very left wing on economic ones ( not PBP left but left all the same ) , she is a classic catholic in that sense , she left FF after more than fifty years and now votes Aontu

FF used to be very left wing economically but were very socially conservative , they are less left wing economically today but completely liberal socially , at least the leadership is

Mad_maxx

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

Having a read of this thread has given me the best laugh in a while, until I remembered that you all really believed this stuff and I'm trapped in the same country.


I think I woke the neighbours laughing at that one.
These media organisations that are owned by large corporations, or RTE who have their purse-strings controlled by whatever centre-right government happens to be in charge at the moment...are all somehow part of a left-wing monoculture? How do you think that works, that's gas.

RTE are unmistakably progressive left , they strike a perfect bourgeois socialist pose

if RTE was an individual politician , they would be the sitting president or the former president Mary Robinson

Mad_maxx

Cal4567 wrote: »

Just a personal observation. I have read a few Gript columns. It's a social conservative view point that espouses the native state over anymore EU control for one example.

The Left here view it as far right because it has been critical of immigration policy. The groupthink now in Ireland is to be socially liberal rather than socially conservative. It used to be the other way around. Being critical of immigration policy is not part of this groupthink, neither is being anti abortion and those who go to mass are viewed with amusement.

From what I can see, it suits the groupthink to label the likes of Gript as such.

Reading a lot of their stuff just seems like common sense to me, but I wouldn't be wedded strongly to any political thought.

much of the time GRIPT just express amusement that the media here completely refuse to discuss certain issue , beit immigration or the whole gender theory debate , as Gary Kavanagh of Gript says

" you would almost think that the whole trans debate was settled "

coolshannagh28

Hhhhh wrote: »

We still have zero evidence that it's far right.

Had a read through it there , it looks centre right to me slightly left of the Tory party in the UK.

joseywhales

Man this whole thread is categorization of left right up down and sideways. Why does it matter? Just pick ideas that you agree with, you don't have to be consistent to some made up social categories.

Tony EH

joseywhales wrote: »

Man this whole thread is categorization of left right up down and sideways. Why does it matter? Just pick ideas that you agree with, you don't have to be consistent to some made up social categories.

It matters to some because they need to strawman the "enemy" at every opportunity in order to try and bolster their own ideas. There's not a day that can go by without some posters whinging about far this and far that, when there's not even a far anything to cry about in this country.

It's absolutely feckin hilarious.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

RTE radio 1 interviewed Peterson so I guess the poster thinks are far right?

Sure so did channel 4. Who knew Jon 'I've never seen so many white people in one place' Snow was far-right!

So we've managed to figure out that GRIPT are not far right, and the people claiming they are, are the usual left wing scaremongers who brand everything they don't like as "hate-filled, dog whistling, racist, homophobic, transphobic, islamaphobic, homophobic, punching down, triggering, hate crimes?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

So we've managed to figure out that GRIPT are not far right, and the people claiming they are, are the usual left wing scaremongers who brand everything they don't like as "hate-filled, dog whistling, racist, homophobic, transphobic, islamaphobic, homophobic, punching down, triggering, hate crimes?

Yes.

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

Yes.

Excellent. Good job everyone.

AndrewJRenko

Hhhhh wrote: »

Sure so did channel 4. Who knew Jon 'I've never seen so many white people in one place' Snow was far-right!

See if you can work out the difference between a one-off interview, and the persistent day-to-day grifting by punching down on vulnerable people, while continually avoiding any deep analysis as to the root cause.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

See if you can work out the difference between a one-off interview, and the persistent day-to-day grifting by punching down on vulnerable people, while continually avoiding any deep analysis as to the root cause.

Punching down...grifting....

That's two off my lefty bingo card.