Building vs Buying

Milly33

Sorry if it has been done but just looking for opinions.

Looking into it all a bit more seriously now and it is headwrecking.. Looking for opinions, would you buy or build or if you done either would you do the other ..

Pretty lucky to have a site but while it is lovely it is not lets say the perfect spot we would choose, we do not really have anywhere in particular we would like to live so open then to buying thinking house prices would be dropping.

Which route would you go down?

ECO_Mental

Have a read of this thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058067907 which is about the cost of building a house. You already have an advantage in that you have a site but have you checked that you can get get planning there though?


My short answer is though if you are not concerned on the type of house you want (just want a house to live in) then you will probably buy a house cheaper than building one and in the location that you want to live in. But if you really want to build the house of your dreams in the location that you want to live in then its the only option and you might have spent a bit more.


You will hear people saying that they can build a house for crazy cheap money but there are doing it direct labour and you really need to know what you are doing and you will be BUSY for a year or two and you might have a nervous breakdown .


Me I am building at the moment with a builder and I must say its stress free and I love turning up to site seeing trades coming and going and all being organized by someone else...

thomas 123

Milly33 wrote: »

Sorry if it has been done but just looking for opinions.

Looking into it all a bit more seriously now and it is headwrecking.. Looking for opinions, would you buy or build or if you done either would you do the other ..

Pretty lucky to have a site but while it is lovely it is not lets say the perfect spot we would choose, we do not really have anywhere in particular we would like to live so open then to buying thinking house prices would be dropping.

Which route would you go down?

One big advantage you have - if the site is yours outright you can use that as your deposit for your self build depending on the value. Could save you a few years saving for a new build.

Of course you could just sell the site but I’m not sure of your family circumstances and if that would be views negatively,

Gumbo

I’d build is money was no object.
But it will be cheaper to buy.

Milly33

Oh the conflict,, Thank you all for yer replies..

I really wish we were more of a yes this is what we want people but we will make anything work... The build would be a house we would want but in a smaller scale (no swimming pool or cinema) but maybe small build with the intention to upscale later..It just would not be in an ideal place like a place you could walk to a local shop if you ran out of milk..

We would have contacts in the building side but family which I am sure is a no no..

Regarding the site as deposit that is an interesting one. We do not own it outright so have not purchased it but would be gifted it. Would this still work

Atomic Pineapple

Yes, the site can be gifted, assuming you're in Ireland (cinema, swimming pool!?), you would need to pay stamp duty.

What I would say is that if you are undecided then don't rush your decision. We had similar options to yours. When we found out we could get a mortgage and the help to buy for a new house we sort of rushed into it and bought a semi-detached house in a commuter town outside of Dublin.

When we moved in it just didn't feel right at all, it grew to such an extent that we realised within the first year that we didn't want to start a family there. With the pandemic starting and brexit on the horizon we decided to sell for fear of getting caught with negative equity.

Because of the sunken costs with that misstep our only option was to build on the site we had because we needed it for the 20% deposit as a second time buyer. As in your case, the site isn't ideally located and otherwise we wouldn't choose to live there. If we could go back a couple of years we would take our time and end up buying a second hand house in a better location and budgeting for changes to make it our own.

iColdFusion

I dont think there is any one answer to your question as there are too many variables but if you are paying high rent at the moment and have no kids I would suggest taking the site and applying for planning for a small log cabin type home, that way you can see if the site works for ye with the lowest amount of financial outlay.

If the site is big enough maybe you could put the cabin to one side and allow room to build a proper house in the future if it all works out and subject to planning.

Also if it doesn't work out the cabin can be removed and the land given back, I would imagine the planning conditions would prevent you from selling a normal house on that site for X number of years anyway if its in a rural area never mind the potential family issues of taking a site and then selling it to a stranger, plenty of falling outs over less in Ireland!

Milly33

Yeah we were looking at cabins too, but not sure would the good old council go for it.. Which reminds me we were going to go look at some might see if they are still open

Have an idea for a house, nothing mad just more functional.. I wonder with connections would the council charge a fortune too..

I was pondering that too about a the gifted part, lets say if we did not use the site or didnt get planning can we re-gift it back?

Yellow_Fern

MariaMcCarthy wrote: »

In my opinion, the building is always less expensive than buying. You can make things according to your choice.

Sadly it is not the case. If you build you are bound to fulful all sorts of new ever more complex energy, fire, electrity and many other regulations. If you buy you can choose a building made with far less demanding regulations or indeed far more demanding practises if you buy. For the lower end of the market and the extreme high end the difference is enormous.
Also second hand houses are often bult in scale which is cheaper than designing everything from stratch.

FastFullBack

I'm in a similar position. Have 2 options on the table :

- Buy 4 bed detached in West Side of Cork City (Ballincollig area) . Anything good is well over €500K. And add another 50K if you want to do anything do it yourself {new kitchen, floors etc}

- Build 4 bed detached in rural location in West Cork on family land, so free site.

In terms of urban vs rural lifestyle, I like both so could probably be happy in both locations.

I'm now starting to lean towards building because for the same money and hopefully less I can build my perfect house. Obviously it will take probably 2+ years from planning through to finishing so very different timelines for both options.

Milly33

Sounds like we are the same..

Ballincollig is a funny one the place is getting so big now mind better than Carrigaline. Is it really around 500k for a house there now?

Madness, it would be great if you could get some kinda help but well wed get nothing as we are far too rich for that kinda of a thing...

Everyone keeps saying wasting a family site is mad, but then im like mmmm but if it does'nt tick all the boxes is it? Have you looked into the gifting of the site, must do a bit more research into that side of things...

We are hoping to call to see these Scandinavian homes next month just to see maybe if that would be an option...

em_cat

We originally thought buying would be less expensive than building, but then we factored in the refurb/ extensions / mods and quickly realised that building was a better option for us and is coming in about 100k cheaper. I’ve a physical disability so that had to be considered for future use.

We bought a site, infill, in a area that we couldn’t afford to buy what we needed, OH is an Architect so that will help. It’ll be the finishes that make or break us I think...and as much as I’m looking forward to the end and ultimately living in the area one of the neighbours is being an absolute PIA and the planning delays is irritating me to no end.

Milly33

Can I borrow your Other half for a bit... Im finding it so hard just to get ans about stuff..

How long have ye put in for planning then? Does it take a while?

Just wondering too how much connections and all that cost, like how much is a connection for ESB

FastFullBack

Milly33 wrote: »

Sounds like we are the same..

Ballincollig is a funny one the place is getting so big now mind better than Carrigaline. Is it really around 500k for a house there now?

Madness, it would be great if you could get some kinda help but well wed get nothing as we are far too rich for that kinda of a thing...

Everyone keeps saying wasting a family site is mad, but then im like mmmm but if it does'nt tick all the boxes is it? Have you looked into the gifting of the site, must do a bit more research into that side of things...

We are hoping to call to see these Scandinavian homes next month just to see maybe if that would be an option...

Gifting site will need to be valued and you'll pay 1% stamp duty. If its gifting from a parent you won't pay capital gains tax but it will count towards your lifetime allowable tax free inheritance from parent (which is >300K).

ESB Connection is approx 3,500 according to this
https://www.esbnetworks.ie/new-connections/newconndomestic/domestic-step2

em_cat

Milly33 wrote: »

Can I borrow your Other half for a bit... Im finding it so hard just to get ans about stuff..

How long have ye put in for planning then? Does it take a while?

Just wondering too how much connections and all that cost, like how much is a connection for ESB

Haha, if only... let’s see, it took about 6 mos for us to work out a design that he was satisfied with, but also worked for me. we’re only building appx 100sqm, then we put in planning and we’ve still another 2 weeks before final grant/ refusal notification, then the 4 weeks for appeals and then we probably need to go through ABP because we’ve a narky, nimby type neighbour who is upset that he couldn’t afford the site.

I think standard planning is 12 weeks for final grant, with the last 4 for appeals. However we’ll be going to ABP so that will another 18weeks minimum....

The rates we are working towards are the RIAI rates, 100sqm = 2200€ psqm that’s for an above average spec, but we will be doing a hybrid modal build.

He said that your contractor should be able advise regarding the cost for ESB connection, prices vary widely due to distances and other factors.

Milly33

Hello thank you so much.. Right so the planning part doesnt take that long unless ABP come into it.. Could people are such ars'es about land.. It is bad that they can object so much.. A friend here, some one kept objecting to their build and it went to ABP and after a year was denied, they asked him in all if they went again would he object and he said yes but something similar he just did;nt want anyone to build there.. This country is a sham that way..

Are those rates to build the house is it? When you say hybrid modal build what do you mean?

I had so many ideas at one stage of a container build, renovating a bus.. Looking in the Thermo build too must see how much that would cost...


Im going to try and make contact with this architect friend and see how we go, if no interest i used to work in an architects office so might try and contact a few people there

em_cat

@Milly33

Yeah it really irritates me that this one neighbor out of 5 is being such a pr*ck, but same as your friend, he only wants himself to use the site, he could’ve if actually bought it but he didn’t so. I’m almost concerned there may be something fishy about our council as he managed to get his floor extension granted despite the tight site, upper floor windows less than 5 meters to his boundary and other issues along with he lodged his planning the minute he found out the site was bought.

Ugh it’s been a mess alright, but we’ll get there in the end.

As far as rate it’s was given by a QS, so €2,200 per 1sqm so fur is at 100sqm will be €220,000, this for main contractor builders spec finish. If we go a hybrid build it means we will organise via direct labor and some will be built by OH & FIL, so there will be some cost savings, but that could prove a false economy IDK. Well also wiggle in terms of some dimensions that will reduce the overall footprint from 100 to 80 so that could help as well and I’ve a €30,000 contingency fund set away.

We also looked at container, sips, kit whatever it’s called but now think it’ll be better to block build as 3 of our walls will be built inside the super old thick stone walls, we also have a fair bit of glazing something like 4m along the west facing wall toward our courtyard garden. We are looking a cladding the little bit we have with reclaimed bricks, if we can the right colour variations and amount.

I know a lot of people don’t believe architects are worth it, but they are best suited to designing spaces that work for how we live and I’d definitely get one to help thru the planning. Good luck with it. I’m pretty great full for my OH as I wouldn’t want to tackle something like this on my own...

eire1987

FastFullBack wrote: »

I'm in a similar position. Have 2 options on the table :

- Buy 4 bed detached in West Side of Cork City (Ballincollig area) . Anything good is well over €500K. And add another 50K if you want to do anything do it yourself {new kitchen, floors etc}

- Build 4 bed detached in rural location in West Cork on family land, so free site.

In terms of urban vs rural lifestyle, I like both so could probably be happy in both locations.

I'm now starting to lean towards building because for the same money and hopefully less I can build my perfect house. Obviously it will take probably 2+ years from planning through to finishing so very different timelines for both options.

Go building!! You get way better value for money.. we just finished building ours in East Cork just outside cork city. Site from family farm.. Don't regret it at all... Got almost everything done for 350k (2100 sq ft house) where the options to buy with our budget was no where near as good as we got from building

eire1987

Milly33 wrote: »

Can I borrow your Other half for a bit... Im finding it so hard just to get ans about stuff..

How long have ye put in for planning then? Does it take a while?

Just wondering too how much connections and all that cost, like how much is a connection for ESB

ESB be around 2-3k

eire1987

em_cat wrote: »

@Milly33

Yeah it really irritates me that this one neighbor out of 5 is being such a pr*ck, but same as your friend, he only wants himself to use the site, he could’ve if actually bought it but he didn’t so. I’m almost concerned there may be something fishy about our council as he managed to get his floor extension granted despite the tight site, upper floor windows less than 5 meters to his boundary and other issues along with he lodged his planning the minute he found out the site was bought.

Ugh it’s been a mess alright, but we’ll get there in the end.

As far as rate it’s was given by a QS, so €2,200 per 1sqm so fur is at 100sqm will be €220,000, this for main contractor builders spec finish. If we go a hybrid build it means we will organise via direct labor and some will be built by OH & FIL, so there will be some cost savings, but that could prove a false economy IDK. Well also wiggle in terms of some dimensions that will reduce the overall footprint from 100 to 80 so that could help as well and I’ve a €30,000 contingency fund set away.

We also looked at container, sips, kit whatever it’s called but now think it’ll be better to block build as 3 of our walls will be built inside the super old thick stone walls, we also have a fair bit of glazing something like 4m along the west facing wall toward our courtyard garden. We are looking a cladding the little bit we have with reclaimed bricks, if we can the right colour variations and amount.

I know a lot of people don’t believe architects are worth it, but they are best suited to designing spaces that work for how we live and I’d definitely get one to help thru the planning. Good luck with it. I’m pretty great full for my OH as I wouldn’t want to tackle something like this on my own...

Timber frame modular is an option we went with.. build started last august . And was at sign off stage come Christmas!! A bit surprised about the sq mtr.. Ours is 191 sq m an it's €1550 we built it for builders finish...

However I don't know what your spec was so that could dictate the price..

em_cat

eire1987 wrote: »

Timber frame modular is an option we went with.. build started last august . And was at sign off stage come Christmas!! A bit surprised about the sq mtr.. Ours is 191 sq m an it's €1550 we built it for builders finish...

However I don't know what your spec was so that could dictate the price..

Yep, spec has a huge impact. I know the rate is from lineSight, a QS firm. We’ve a good amount of 2.7m glazing going in because our site is an infill and I want some amount of proper dual aspect, not this 2.4m high glazing at one end of an 8.5m room and a tiny window in another room nonsense, our apartment is like this and it’s quite dark at one end and glaring bright at other, drives me bonkers during the summer and winter. We also have to build to NZeb standards because we are in DLRCC.

Odeta

Location, location, location imo. Remember viewing a cracker of a house in a stunning but very remote location and being sorely tempted. It taught me a valuable lesson ... location is key. I ended up buying my dream home close to family and friends (moved to a rival parish though!) Neighbours are wonderful. I know you have a site but, I would still think the location is key. As regards building, I find it hard to pick a paint colour, so I think that I’d still be building the house if I went down that route!

em_cat

That’s another reason we decided to build, so we can be smack bang in the middle of our chosen location, it would have cost twice as much to buy and then refurb.

CorkRed93

eire1987 wrote: »

Go building!! You get way better value for money.. we just finished building ours in East Cork just outside cork city. Site from family farm.. Don't regret it at all... Got almost everything done for 350k (2100 sq ft house) where the options to buy with our budget was no where near as good as we got from building

Contractor or direct labour ?

Milly33

FastFullBack wrote: »

Gifting site will need to be valued and you'll pay 1% stamp duty. If its gifting from a parent you won't pay capital gains tax but it will count towards your lifetime allowable tax free inheritance from parent (which is >300K).

ESB Connection is approx 3,500 according to this
https://www.esbnetworks.ie/new-connections/newconndomestic/domestic-step2

thank you for this.. I am pretty rubbish when it comes to 1% and taxes and that but will get himself to calculate it... Never get anything for free as always ..

Is it really that much for the connections, that is the thing that scares me what it we get hit with a huge connection fee, mind if we do well figure it out

Milly33

Odeta wrote: »

Location, location, location imo. Remember viewing a cracker of a house in a stunning but very remote location and being sorely tempted. It taught me a valuable lesson ... location is key. I ended up buying my dream home close to family and friends (moved to a rival parish though!) Neighbours are wonderful. I know you have a site but, I would still think the location is key. As regards building, I find it hard to pick a paint colour, so I think that I’d still be building the house if I went down that route!

Haha you would be forever trying to decide on what to build then.. Yeah that is a main point about location and then im like feck it, just build small and see what happens..

Thank you too all so great advice..

Milly33

Yeah I would have been no architect but then well we need someone to do up the drawings so well have to get one really just hoping they wont charge a fortune for it..

ill be back

fleabag

We ended up building as all the houses in our budget in Waterford were damp and small or in areas we didn't particularly want to live in. Building has definitely been the most stressful thing ever, between banks and building through a pandemic but we are now almost completed and have a warm, well-insulated, well-planned, fantastic looking house that we certainly couldn't have afforded on our budget if we tried to buy. We went timber frame modular also and I'm counting the hours till we move in now.

Our planning permission was the easiest thing, hardest was getting the loan as it was a non-standard build. If you have the site and finance and get a good builder, I can see it could be really enjoyable and to be honest, the months fly by. We got planning permission in November 2017 and we're still going but when you see the house start to take shape, it makes it all worthwhile.

Milly33

Thank you, what timber frame companies did ye all use then? We are hoping to call to Scan homes in Feb if they re-open. They sent a spec in but it is for a fairly small home..

Well we have site and vision just missing the finance bit of it

froog

if you're being gifted land it's a no brainer in my opinion. if not, i'm not sure it would be cheaper than buying at all but you do get exactly the house you want.

eire1987

Contractor... We had our first born through the build so it was the best choice in hindsight . to be honest I have very little knowledge on building anyway so would have gone contractor anyway... Like as many people has said here if you can go direct labour or do some yourself by all means off you go, but there will be a lot of work in it...