Lonely, unlikeable, not much to look forward to

ongarboy

If her housemates are teachers and the recent announcement that schools at all levels will close til February at least, does this mean she'll stay at yours until they return from their family homes? I know this wasn't your original issue OP but I'd address this before you get further taken advantage of. Maybe sound it out with the other housemate (not the boyfriend) first as to how to go about it. The girlfriend sounds precious and may be subtly trying to turn the boyfriend against you to expedite her encroachment into his life. Of course, if you've no problem with yet another person living/sleeping/eating/WFH....in your kitchen....with you 24/7, then the issue is moot.

PS, you may need to choose which battle is more important...a freeloader in your house (which may antagonize the boyfriend if you address it) or addressing your original issue whereby then, I think you need to broach it with him about what you overheard and need it clarified.

Tork

I agree with previous posters This issue of the girlfriend all but moving into your place is going to have to be addressed sooner rather than later. It has gone past the "nip it in the bud" stage and will only get worse if nothing is said. Couples are a great way to ruin any house-share and this pair is well on the way to doing that for you. She is such a cliché too, seemingly being one of these women who is "afraid" to stay in a house on her own and uses this as a tool to get what she wants.

The question was already asked about why they aren't staying in her place. It should be a no-brainer - her place is seemingly empty so they'd have the place to themselves. It'd be better than rather than them staying in your house and having you under their feet? For some reason, her place isn't as desirable to her and I could see her engineering a move into your place. Your friend is going to be equally complicit in it so I think you're on the verge of losing that friendship anyway. (You're not dealing with Tom your friend any more - he is now Mary and Tom). You're paying enough rent as it is so why have your home turned into somewhere you can't relax? You can't even go into the kitchen to make a cup of coffee or make something to eat because she's hogging the table. It isn't unreasonable to send her back home to where she should be staying most of the time. If these two want to be together 24/7, let them find their own place.

screamer

COVID is wrecking everyone’s head and increasing stress levels. However, it will end eventually and you sound like a decent person so don’t be so hard on yourself. BTW make some new friends, that guy is not your friend, and doesn’t deserve your kind deeds.

Sonic the Shaghog

X151 wrote: »

He said something like - (read out message I sent) ‘find it hard to appreciate it when he does things like this”. GF responded with ‘can’t believe he sent that message, actually enrages me, who does he think he is’. She mentioned she’d cook dinner for him the next night and he said ‘thanks - I can appreciate that as at least you’re genuine’

I'm wondering if it's any of the following:

- Could another housemate (or the gf?) have told him you bitch about him/make a laugh out of him behind his back and he thinks you are two faced

- Maybe he thinks you only do nice things when you are after something or want something out of him

Anything like the above ever come up?

It's either one of those or they are just oddballs and if you think there's no misunderstanding that could have led to either of the above I wouldn't be making the effort

LegacyUser

i thin Op you should be aware people are fickle and will say what suits them, i was once called by my friend to his GF house to help her figure out a problem she had. we were there ages trying to help, making phone calls suggestions. i left a job to try to help. I heard a few months later all she said was ye were there so long i could not get dinner for children. I had gone back at 10PM to see if she was OK and that was my thanks.

In the film Fort Apache The Bronx there is an astute line "I do'nt go to parties where I'm not invited" I stay awa from her now. If someone spoke of you like that they are not worh worrying about and are not your friend

There is just one thing are you the sort to over help people doing things to help them they may not want can be annoying. Not saying you are if didn't read all of this

leggo

You’ve got some absolutely excellent advice here OP, I hope it’s landing because I think everyone has it dead on so far.

Just knowing WFH life, I’d say the reason she’s there so much could be as simple as there’s better broadband, she’s got a better setup in the kitchen than she does in her own place or something as simple as she doesn’t want to pay for heating or equally parasitic. As everyone has pointed out, it’s way better for them to live alone at her place so the fact they’re at yours is for a reason and likely one that directly benefits her. Is she even contributing towards any bills for all the free broadband, electricity and heating she’s using?? (And don’t fall for the old “oh yeah she’s paying half of my bill” trick your friend may pull, that’s a houseshare classic)

Either way, if it was me I’d be looking for a tangible excuse to nip it in the bud right now. You can’t make it about *her*, that’ll only start WW3 as your friend will see her as perfect and it sounds like she’s putting in the groundwork into turning him on you guys anyway. But you didn’t sign up to live with a couple and her being there is going to increase the cost of bills etc so honeymoon phase over, it’s time to get some boundaries. I’d also take the attitude “well you already think this and this about me so I may as well get my money’s worth.”

And, lastly, drawing a line is the sensible move because if you essentially make the point that she’s mooching now and she later has the ‘lease issues’ spoken of, it weakens her argument because you’ve called it ahead of time. The reality is that if couples want to live together, great, they should get their own place! Can’t afford it? That’s too bad and not the responsibility of their housemates to have to deal with. Get better jobs or learn to budget, it’s not the rest of the world’s problem your schnuckums isn’t the first thing you see when you wake up every morning.

If it hasn’t been made obvious though, none of this is about you or anything you’ve done OP. It feels like we’re all painting her in a bad light, and I’m sure she deserves some of it, but it’s not even about her. This is all just a part of growing and your friends meeting people. It hurts when it’s you and someone you’re close with, I’ve been through similar myself, but all you’re learning here is a different (and not very flattering) side to your friend that you weren’t aware of previously. Please, for god’s sake, don’t take that personally as if you’re at fault here.

Pcgamer

OP males generally cut the back off other male friends the whole time. Its what we do.

Its a pity you overheard it but doesn't mean your friend doesn't like you or is sick of you whatsoever. He'd probably be mortified if he thought you heard it and was the day of his grandfathers funeral after all.

Your blowing it way overboard.

emerald opal

“Another slant is how the girlfriend is there a lot.
You're obviously very tolerant of that, and he might feel a bit guilty about it. Nobody likes to feel guilty, so he could be creating a scenario in his head where you've done something wrong, just to make himself feel better about how much she's there”

Very insightful.

emerald opal

Given your age and stage in life it could be you that is maturing and changing and seeking more from your friends - open honest communication and respect. Everyone living in close quarters has issues but bearing a grudge and thinking ill of you and gossiping without checking in on your side is not on. You sound like a very, nice kind thoughtful discerning person happy enough in your own company in ‘normal’ situations. I think your friend is projecting his grief/unhappiness onto you and the girlfriend is getting in the way of you two connecting as good mates and he is part of that decision to allow her to take over. He must be struggling as you say. These lockdown challenging circumstances are certainly testing personal friendships and partnerships across the board and you are trapped to some extent presently. Try not to be trapped in your mind with negative thoughts about you. Find your joy and tribe - get some headspace, distraction, music, exercise, meet-ups online, new hobby etcetera. Whatever is your thing. Don’t go where you are not appreciated and when someone shows you who they are believe them. I think it’s worth having a difficult conversation at the right time to see if he can redeem himself. Do you really want to be with someone who can’t communicate the hard stuff. Good Luck. You articulated your dilemma so well. It’s not you!

His girlfriend is over every weekend and most evenings? That's well out of order. Does she not have a place herself?

Anyway, I'd highly recommend exercising regularly if you can. It will lift your mood.

LegacyUser

Thanks all - really appreciate the advice & kind words.

The more I think the more I'm sure it's the GF who doesn't like me. It's sad that affects my friendship but I'm over the shock of it now - it's a battle I'll never win if so, so no point exhausting myself trying.

However difficult to get space from it. She's been living here constantly for 3 weeks, no sign of leaving yet. WFH in kitchen, she did a video job interview yesterday. Other housemate (not the BF) gets on well (with her and with me) but wouldn't support asking her to go back to her place or spend less time here.

If I bring it up it'll just cause so much tension and probably confirm their belief they have that I do have some issue with them. Just feel a bit trapped. Moving out myself is difficult due to circumstances and would also seem bad since we're less than 1 year into lease. And I like the house!

Thanks for listening - to my venting!

YellowLead

It’s a tough situation to be in OP. Sounds like GF is moving herself in without having to declare it and officially contribute. I hope at least you have realised that you are not unlikeable - and that this situation is a reflection on other people’s behaviour and not yours.
We all have to hang in there for another while yet until there is light at the end of the Covid tunnel - but start planning for what you would like to get out and do to build up your friend group when things ease - clubs to join etc.

Tork

I'd find it hard not to casually ask questions like "Are Mary's housemates back yet?" or "God, I would've thought that with them all gone away, ye'd have loved having her place all to yourselves" just to see what his reaction is. Or around 4/4:30 to start preparing meals that have lots of ingredients (especially strong-smelling things like onions and garlic) and need lots of saucepans etc. Is schnuckums hogging the kitchen meaning you have to wait until later before you have your dinner? Yeah I know it's childish but she's too comfortable where she is.

leggo

“Guys can we get together for a little bit and just run through some house stuff later?”

Send that text in the groupchat you guys likely have. Then say this:

“Right guys since X has been here a few weeks, it’s only fair we take account for that and redistribute expenditure to account for the fact that there’s now 4 of us living here, at least until she’s back in her own place. Rent-wise, since you guys are sharing I don’t think it’s fair on you to split it evenly four ways, but I think 40% coming from you then me and Y paying 30% each is fair. But broadband, electricity and gas should be 25% each.”

Nothing there can be argued with. You’re just acknowledging the situation that is happening already.

If they get into “ah jaysus man be sound” and all that: “soundness works both ways and I think we’ve been very sound already given that your girlfriend has effectively moved in with no notice, works from our kitchen, uses our utilities and we’re paying for it. So it’s time for you guys to be sound back. I’m not saying she has to go or anything of the sorts, just rearranging the finances as they would be if we moved in with this situation.”

If they point out that she already has to pay this already in her current home and can’t afford it: “Look her finances aren’t my business but that is partly why I’m being generous with the 40-30-30 split. This house is my business, though, and I can’t afford myself to pay for someone else to live here rent-free, which is what’s happening.”

If they say it’ll be temporary: “Oh don’t worry, so will these measures. When she’s not living here, we’ll go back to the way it was.”

If he brings up his family bereavement as an excuse: “Look man I’m sorry again that happened to you, really I am. But you’re making something completely separate and attaching it to this and that’s extremely unfair on me...” then go back to the point.

Any awkwardness or ill will you’re looking to avoid can be worked on in future, remember that a person’s last impression of dealing with you is what they make their mind up on, so if you have a good laugh or are sound down the line they’ll forget this. And it’s also a good platform to build off where people know they can’t walk all over you and take the piss.

LegacyUser

It seems to me that the girlfriend is jealous of your friendship with her boyfriend...You were caring for his well-being, and perhaps showed her up a bit. Or, she may have bought some food for him also. Anyway perhaps she came out of it feeling inadequate, and he just had to agree with her..
A nice girl would have seen the good in your action. Pity him!

wiggle16

leggo wrote: »

“Guys can we get together for a little bit and just run through some house stuff later?” Send that text in the groupchat you guys likely have. Then say this:[.....]

I think leggo's post is a great way to approach things if you do decide to go down this road. I would only throw in the caveat that you'd need to be prepared for the GF to use this as a pretext to move in entirely, as she isn't going to pay to live in two houses. And if he is as easily influenced by her as he sounds then she won't have any trouble at all turning this back on you in the process. And if she is engineering a house-move, she could well be waiting for one of you to bring this up.
Leggo's wording is perfect and the reasoning is sound - but so was putting food in the fridge for him and that still grew legs of its own, as you found out a few weeks ago. You will need to keep in mind that no matter how reasonable you are they may not be reasonable in turn.

We can only go on what you've said OP, so maybe she is not all we think she is, but this situation isn't fair. One of the people you live with is having everything his own way and schnuckums [Tork this made me giggle!] is sitting very pretty. Like others I would find it very hard to hold my tongue about this - paying for someone else to work from my home, no way. Its going to grate on you more and more as time goes by. But however you choose to address it, I would consider bringing up what you overheard too.

It sounds like his behaviour may well have damaged your friendship permanently - if there is any hope of your friendship surviving in any meaningful way then you need to have everything out in the open, in my opinion.

Tork

To be fair, I stole schnuckums from a previous post of Leggo's. It's a fine word, isn't it?

Like Wiggle, I would be slow to mention money here. I've seen these sorts of threads on boards before and the general consensus is that money changing hands is not the way to go. That can be read as a sign that as long as they throw in a few bob extra, Mary can stay for as long as she wants. As things stand,I don't think she's going to be moving back to her place any time soon. You could find yourself being put on the spot about her moving in though. Are you prepared to say No?

leggo

I agree that the risk is that they could use a conversation like that to try formalise her moving in, the logic though is that the ship has kinda sailed there and without the other housemate on-side, his only real approach is to get it out in the open and try have some control of the terms.

Best case scenario: speaking about it openly causes them to freak out a bit and she goes home. Or it speeds up them getting their own place by now seeing this as a hostile environment for them. And at worst at least it’ll fairly redistribute the financial side of things, the friendship may be fractured but OP’s housemate did that himself anyway with his comments. It’s a way of controlling the controllables since, if they want to live together, that won’t be something OP can (or should) have any influence over.

HildaOgdenx

leggo wrote: »

I agree that the risk is that they could use a conversation like that to try formalise her moving in, the logic though is that the ship has kinda sailed there and without the other housemate on-side, his only real approach is to get it out in the open and try have some control of the terms.

Best case scenario: speaking about it openly causes them to freak out a bit and she goes home. Or it speeds up them getting their own place by now seeing this as a hostile environment for them. And at worst at least it’ll fairly redistribute the financial side of things, the friendship may be fractured but OP’s housemate did that himself anyway with his comments. It’s a way of controlling the controllables since, if they want to live together, that won’t be something OP can (or should) have any influence over.

Agree, especially about the ship having sailed. I would not be surprised to find that she has in fact given up her room in the other house. So it's a case of deciding how to approach this from a financial perspective.
As has been said, once they start paying their share, as a couple, (if they do) it will be considered that they are now both tenants.

I have often seen threads on boards about this. If you move in with a couple, as other tenants, that's one thing, but having it foisted on you, is quite another. However, I think that's the situation you are looking at here, OP.

The friendship probably won't survive, in these circumstances. I do hope though, that you have taken from the thread that it's not you, it's him, or indeed them that should feel bad about what was said about you.

HildaOgdenx

Tork wrote: »

I'd find it hard not to casually ask questions like "Are Mary's housemates back yet?" or "God, I would've thought that with them all gone away, ye'd have loved having her place all to yourselves" just to see what his reaction is. Or around 4/4:30 to start preparing meals that have lots of ingredients (especially strong-smelling things like onions and garlic) and need lots of saucepans etc. Is schnuckums hogging the kitchen meaning you have to wait until later before you have your dinner? Yeah I know it's childish but she's too comfortable where she is.

And I agree with this. I mentioned earlier in the thread that you should continue to use all common areas of the house, as before. I would be making cups of tea and coffee, in the kitchen as and when it suited me too, throughout the day.

bitofabind

Sorry if I missed this OP but is there anything in your lease about house guests? When I was a tenant, it was quite common to have a clause about this. Last house-share, I had to notify the landlord if I was having someone over to stay for more than a week. It very much was not something that housemates would tolerate or just be expected to put up with, girlfriend/boyfriend or not.

It sounds like you're just kind of tolerating it now, but if this was me, I'd very much be going the route of your housemate being in violation of the lease and / or reporting to the landlord or at the very least, discussing with your other housemates. The gf sounds toxic and it's not a healthy situation for you to be in, with her milling around all the time. Doubt the other tenants are happy about it either, most people hate this sort of entitlement.

Neyite

I'd a girlfriend of a flatmate foisted on me once. I was all for making her pay her share of the heat and electric she used up but another flatmate wiser than me said that if she did pay a portion of the bills, she would have a legitimate claim to officially move in.



So I'd advise against suggesting that - it only gives her more of a foothold.

HildaOgdenx

Neyite wrote: »

I'd a girlfriend of a flatmate foisted on me once. I was all for making her pay her share of the heat and electric she used up but another flatmate wiser than me said that if she did pay a portion of the bills, she would have a legitimate claim to officially move in.



So I'd advise against suggesting that - it only gives her more of a foothold.

Yes, this is something, as I said upthread that comes up quite regularly on boards, where a housemate starts to take the p1ss by moving in their partner. The natural reaction is to think, hey this extra person should pay their way. And before you know it, they decide that they are now tenants.

As I mentioned, OP, I would not be surprised if the next revelation is that her place in her own house is gone, I think you said there were already hints about problems with the lease. If the other housemates are working from home, for the foreseeable future, then they may well have decided to let the rented house go.

So, be prepared, I guess, is my advice.

fantaiscool

You are allowing yourself to be treated badly. I think you need to stop being afraid of conflict or you will get run over here.

leggo

Neyite wrote: »

I'd a girlfriend of a flatmate foisted on me once. I was all for making her pay her share of the heat and electric she used up but another flatmate wiser than me said that if she did pay a portion of the bills, she would have a legitimate claim to officially move in.

The difference with that situation and the OP's, though, is that your flatmate is on side. If you have the numbers then there's no leg for them to stand on due to, as others have pointed out, the lease.

But OP has said he's sure the other flatmate wouldn't have his back pushing her out, so that's a non-starter. Going to the landlord could be shooting themselves in the foot: if the landlord feels they could get more money for the place putting it back on the market, they could view it as a breach of the lease and they risk all getting put out, so it's not something you want to run to them with or even threaten (in case they call your bluff, and also because it'll turn the situation nuclear and end the friendship instantly).

So, weighed up, this could be OP's best course of action aside from saying nothing and letting tension build.

fantaiscool

leggo wrote: »

The difference with that situation and the OP's, though, is that your flatmate is on side. If you have the numbers then there's no leg for them to stand on due to, as others have pointed out, the lease.

But OP has said he's sure the other flatmate wouldn't have his back pushing her out, so that's a non-starter. Going to the landlord could be shooting themselves in the foot: if the landlord feels they could get more money for the place putting it back on the market, they could view it as a breach of the lease and they risk all getting put out, so it's not something you want to run to them with or even threaten (in case they call your bluff, and also because it'll turn the situation nuclear and end the friendship instantly).

So, weighed up, this could be OP's best course of action aside from saying nothing and letting tension build.

He should have higher standards in terms of what he will accept from friends and acquaintances. It's only going to affect his self esteem in a worse way if he continues to take the cower down role. I would say man up, be prepared for everything to blow up if it does. I would feel much better even if I ended up worse off overall because my self esteem would be boosted but that's just me. This is a give an inch and they take a mile situation that he should have nipped in the bud much quicker.

leggo

This doesn’t really have anything to do with self-esteem, that’s not a conditional thing that is impacted by minor daily decisions and more how you view yourself in the bigger picture...and it’s also largely formulated in your childhood too.

The reality is that, by nature, houseshares are about compromise and taking people’s lives as they are, mashing it in a household and everyone giving and taking enough so that everyone is happy enough. If you’re willing to burn long-term bridges because you overheard your housemate say you were a bit disingenuous...I’m sorry man but that mix of sensitivity and confrontation is a recipe for disaster in an environment that’s intense by default with COVID. It’s also poor life planning because there is a housing/rent crisis in this country so blowing up a situation that could leave no other option but moving could absolutely make your life worse. I don’t think your self-esteem is going to be doing great a year or two from now if you were living in a worse situation, paying over the odds so everything else in your life is affected and you’ve forgotten why you were mad to begin with. Each to their own but I don’t think many would burn their life down over a relatively minor slight like that and it’s not great advice to be dolling out IMO.

Compromising is intelligent and mature - and necessary in a houseshare - you’re not a pushover if you don’t have absolutely everything your own way all the time.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all responses - appreciated. Feeling better these days. Schnuckums (love it!) still showing no sign of leaving.

Given other housemate (who’s a gent!) wouldn’t support confronting, the fact that we all have mutual friends and covid’s a pressure cooker anyway - I think a confrontation or bringing out a rent calculator may leave the reputation of me as a bit contrary and make things quite tense. I suspect they will move out to get their own place by summer anyway.

I’m being civil and courteous but in no way going out of my way to give them space. Grabbing tea, making food etc whenever it suits me. She mostly works in his bedroom now (probably because she was getting interrupted all the time).

Thanks again - lockdown madness combined with living in my head was a struggle. Focusing on self now - using time to focus on getting healthy, losing weight etc.

HildaOgdenx

X151 wrote: »

Thanks for all responses - appreciated. Feeling better these days. Schnuckums (love it!) still showing no sign of leaving.

Given other housemate (who’s a gent!) wouldn’t support confronting, the fact that we all have mutual friends and covid’s a pressure cooker anyway - I think a confrontation or bringing out a rent calculator may leave the reputation of me as a bit contrary and make things quite tense. I suspect they will move out to get their own place by summer anyway.

I’m being civil and courteous but in no way going out of my way to give them space. Grabbing tea, making food etc whenever it suits me. She mostly works in his bedroom now (probably because she was getting interrupted all the time).

Thanks again - lockdown madness combined with living in my head was a struggle. Focusing on self now - using time to focus on getting healthy, losing weight etc.

Great to hear, and well done you!

leggo

Great attitude, love a rare happy ending to these threads. Well done OP, fair play.