Hard start tl90 a nh

jd06

Hi all, I have a tl90 a and it's very hard to start these mornings. I jump start it on frosty days
The battery is 14 months old and the tractor is started only once a day and only for a few minutes
Ii dont think there is a heater switch
I charged the battery yesterday but its still hard started this morning. Any ideas. Tia

Tonynewholland

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all, I have a tl90 a and it's very hard to start these mornings. I jump start it on frosty days
The battery is 14 months old and the tractor is started only once a day and only for a few minutes
Ii dont think there is a heater switch
I charged the battery yesterday but its still hard started this morning. Any ideas. Tia

Has she the old type of starter. You need a geared starter Also I’ve heard of lads putting a bigger battery in them

jd06

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Has she the old type of starter. You need a geared starter Also I’ve heard of lads putting a bigger battery in them

Thanks . I'm not sure about the starter I'll find out

tanko

These mornings are showing up batteries that are well past their best. Did you get your battery tested, like everything else they don't seem to be lasting as long as they used to.
Even if i'm only using the tractor for a short time to put in bales i leave it running for half an hour or so to keep the battery charged up.

Mooooo

If you turn the key anti clockwise that should be the heater switch? It is in the 7840 anyway. She starts away fine tho. Agree with the lads leave it running for a bit. Also park in accessible place, perhaps where sunshine can hit it in the shed if possible. Jcb 412 slow to start on cold mornings alright, battery isn't up to these cold mornings

K.G.

Does she have a heater switch on the dash under the steering wheel.theres 6 switches or at least room for 6 rocker switches there and in ours theres a switch there.never need it here

jd06

K.G. wrote: »

Does she have a heater switch on the dash under the steering wheel.theres 6 switches or at least room for 6 rocker switches there and in ours theres a switch there.never need it here

No switch here

jd06

Mooooo wrote: »

If you turn the key anti clockwise that should be the heater switch? It is in the 7840 anyway. She starts away fine tho. Agree with the lads leave it running for a bit. Also park in accessible place, perhaps where sunshine can hit it in the shed if possible. Jcb 412 slow to start on cold mornings alright, battery isn't up to these cold mornings

No the key wont turn anti clockwise.
I leave it in the shed at night but on a sunny morning it would be better outside

Grueller

The one here has a switch on the bottom of the bank of 3 on the left of the steering.
Last year ours was the same but I got a larger battery, it has the same footprint but is twice as tall as the old one. Got the geared starter reconditioned and away she goes now even on the frostiest of mornings. I would get a heater plug sorted on her though as a matter of urgency. Nothing worse than a ten minute feeding job taking an hour trying to get a yoke started.

tanko

I'd be careful putting a taller battery into a tractor than it came with.
A neighbour of mine did this but there wasn't really room for it, the battery moved a bit and the two battery terminals ended up touching the body of the tractor, shorted the battery and burnt the tractor to a crisp.

Grueller

tanko wrote: »

I'd be careful putting a taller battery into a tractor than it came with.
A neighbour of mine did this but there wasn't really room for it, the battery moved a bit and the two battery terminals ended up touching the body of the tractor, shorted the battery and burnt the tractor to a crisp.

No the clamp extended way out an caught mine. Loads of room for it. Actually the battery that came in her was like a pimple on an elephant.

Say my name

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all, I have a tl90 a and it's very hard to start these mornings. I jump start it on frosty days
The battery is 14 months old and the tractor is started only once a day and only for a few minutes
Ii dont think there is a heater switch
I charged the battery yesterday but its still hard started this morning. Any ideas. Tia

There's a big difference in charging batteries.
A slow charge is the Rolls Royce.
A fast charge setting shortens the life in a battery and it just doesn't hold the charge as well.
And don't forget to check the acid level. Top up with distilled water over the plates if required.

Mooooo

High speed starter can be a big help as well

tanko

Grueller wrote: »

No the clamp extended way out an caught mine. Loads of room for it. Actually the battery that came in her was like a pimple on an elephant.

Oh i know it can work well but just to be careful with that sort of thing.

CHOPS01

Have an old MF 265 here and it wouldn't start without a jump for a few days. New battery went in 10 days ago but still a few days it wouldn't start so had to jump it.
Was up earlier and started first turn which surprised me seeing how cold it was last night. Most likely because she was running for over an hour yesterday. And threw an old duvet over the bonnet yesterday evening.

patsy_mccabe

My old 1977 David Brown started this morning no bother. I left it in the shade yesterday by mistake and windscreen all frozen up. There's a heater like a little flame thrower in the air intake and a screw on the diesel pump. It advances the timing, I think.
I can't see how any diesel engine would start without getting some heat in there first.

jd06

Was working the nh this morning and left it out all day had to jump it again this evening.
The battery is showing a green light through the viewing eye so I have it on s slow charge for tonight and Tomorrow and I'll try it tomorrow evening again

jd06

That's the battery. Is it powerful enough?

Water John

To save a battery on an older tractor getting shortened, cut the bottom of a plastic drum about an inch or two up from the bottom, invert and shape to fit over the battery.
Tractor only being run for a short while every day during the winter will kill the battery.

orm0nd

an electric fan heater aimed at the inlet manifold for 10 (+/-) minutes before starting migh help

zetecescort

Far from ideal if you have to do it every day but at different times over the years we either drained the water before the frost and refilled with hot water in the morning or else disconnected the pipework from the inlet manifold and pointed a gas torch down the manifold for a minute or two.

Like I say, pure messing if you value your time but then it wasn't for me to say

MIKEKC

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Have an old MF 265 here and it wouldn't start without a jump for a few days. New battery went in 10 days ago but still a few days it wouldn't start so had to jump it.
Was up earlier and started first turn which surprised me seeing how cold it was last night. Most likely because she was running for over an hour yesterday. And threw an old duvet over the bonnet yesterday evening.

Putting a duvet over bonnet was often done in olden days. I remember an uncle of mine, who was very mechanically minded saying no good unless you put one on the ground as well. Most frost comes up from cold ground

Say my name

Hardly anything draining the power out of it when the tractor is not working?
Radios can get the blame.

Maybe disconnect the positive clamp tonight when you're charging, although going by your pic you've the battery out to charge. So you've that covered.

And don't forget a bit of Vaseline on the connection points when hooking up the battery again tomorrow.

SuperTortoise

Doubt that battery is big enough, i bought one for the jeep before xmas and it was a 760A start same as that one you posted.

Castlekeeper

I'm far from an expert but sometimes the heater plug is activated by holding just before the key fires the ignition, but I'd say that's more on older tractors.

Say my name

Heard of a case where someone was washing their tractor with a volume washer. Water got into the starter and was hard started. They put a cut off switch and all to "cure" it. It was a high speed starter.
It wasn't till the next owner took off the starter and noticed the water. That the tractor was transformed again.

_Brian

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'm far from an expert but sometimes the heater plug is activated by holding just before the key fires the ignition, but I'd say that's more on older tractors.

Ours is activated on the start position on the ignition.
Pop it in gear, turn to start and the gearbox safety stops it turning over.
Pop it into neutral and she fires up.

jimmy G M

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'm far from an expert but sometimes the heater plug is activated by holding just before the key fires the ignition, enginebut I'd say that's more on older tractors.

Most tractors would need a little heat before starting on days such as these.

As above, turn the key towards the start position and just as engine starts to turn over ease off a little, so it's not turning over, but not all the way back to the ignition on position. There should be a little pressure on the key. This is most likely the heating plug on position. Hold here for 30 secs to 1 minute. Then try to start. You should notice that the ignition lights dim slightly as the heating plug draws power.

Find the heating plug and be sure it is working - usually on the air intake manifold on the RHS of the engine (viewed from the seat). The plug and surrounding metal should feel warm. If not you might need to replace the heating plug or check the wiring. There would be an electric wire and a fuel line connecting into the top of the plug. See pic below

Also check the fan belt is good and tight and recharging the battery - no screeching from the fan belt to indicate its loose, if so tighten or replace.

Check the earth terminal where it connects onto the tractor body, if rusty open, clean off and re-attach.


https://www.google.com/search?q=heating+plug+on+a++newholland+tractor+image&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiRmMW-8oDuAhVOYxUIHeUmA4kQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=heating+plug+on+a++newholland+tractor+image&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFDEwgFY0N0BYLXxAWgAcAB4AIABqQGIAfEJkgEDNi42mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=K1DyX9HWNM7G1fAP5c2MyAg#imgrc=gUAZuyGMsAoIfM

jd_12345

If you could put it in a shed with cattle they'd keep it warm during cold nights.
Have a jcb 412 that was a right pig to start. Mechanic found small holes in the injector pipes which wouldn't really leak but they'd leave in enough air when the loader stopped to cause it to be slightly airlocked hence the hard starting. New hoses about 6 years ago and never gave an once of bother since. I think it has got 2 batteries and a cut off switch in the last couple of years but it starts perfect every morning - don't even bother with the heater! I've jinxed it now probably

jd06

funkey_monkey wrote: »

When you go out in the morning have you checked the battery to see what charge it is holding?
Any chance that one of the battery clamps has cracked?

It does sound like the battery is the issue more than the starter itself. Maybe let it run for a while longer in the morning to give the alternator a chance to replenish the battery.


Edit: just read that if it is a bosch starter it might be worth upgrading to an irskra as the cranking allied is the important part. Peter also states that the tl90a doesn't have a heater plug.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/cold-starting-nh-tl90a.206326/

Thank you for the info

jd06

jimmy G M wrote: »

Most tractors would need a little heat before starting on days such as these.

As above, turn the key towards the start position and just as engine starts to turn over ease off a little, so it's not turning over, but not all the way back to the ignition on position. There should be a little pressure on the key. This is most likely the heating plug on position. Hold here for 30 secs to 1 minute. Then try to start. You should notice that the ignition lights dim slightly as the heating plug draws power.

Find the heating plug and be sure it is working - usually on the air intake manifold on the RHS of the engine (viewed from the seat). The plug and surrounding metal should feel warm. If not you might need to replace the heating plug or check the wiring. There would be an electric wire and a fuel line connecting into the top of the plug. See pic below

Also check the fan belt is good and tight and recharging the battery - no screeching from the fan belt to indicate its loose, if so tighten or replace.

Check the earth terminal where it connects onto the tractor body, if rusty open, clean off and re-attach.


https://www.google.com/search?q=heating+plug+on+a++newholland+tractor+image&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiRmMW-8oDuAhVOYxUIHeUmA4kQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=heating+plug+on+a++newholland+tractor+image&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFDEwgFY0N0BYLXxAWgAcAB4AIABqQGIAfEJkgEDNi42mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=K1DyX9HWNM7G1fAP5c2MyAg#imgrc=gUAZuyGMsAoIfM

Thanks I'll try your suggestions

K.G.

They have a built in voltmeter so keep an eye on it to see is it charging correctly

patsy_mccabe

My jeep was as dead as a dodo, this morning. Battery bought in 2019. Hadn't driven it in 2 weeks, but still.

minerleague

K.G. wrote: »

They have a built in voltmeter so keep an eye on it to see is it charging correctly

Was going to say get a voltmeter as battery can be blamed but not being charged properly ( Do inbuilt ones read properly over time? )

Welding Rod

Finding my Zetor hard to start even when no frost. Switch on to heater position until orange light goes out. Turn key and hold turning over for about 16 seconds before she starts.
For no other reason than experimentation I skipped the heater position yesterday morning early in heavy frost. It started instantly!
Tried same this morning again hard fronts. Started like a dream.
How is that explained?

Say my name

Has the tractor started?

jd06

Say my name wrote: »

Has the tractor started?

I charged it today and it worked tonight but I'm I'm doubtful about Tomorrow. I used the dead man too in case its loosing juice.
Time will tell
Thanks for all the replies

kevthegaff

The 110 /90 s slow enough to start, I use the heater button for about 10 seconds, then crank it and it starts after 5 to 10 seconds. Always wonder what does it do when I turned the key the other direction and the dash light comes on. What is the reason for the left turn on the ignition?

Jb1989

kevthegaff wrote: »

The 110 /90 s slow enough to start, I use the heater button for about 10 seconds, then crank it and it starts after 5 to 10 seconds. Always wonder what does it do when I turned the key the other direction and the dash light comes on. What is the reason for the left turn on the ignition?

Is it like the cases just to light up the dash clocks?

kevthegaff

Jb1989 wrote: »

Is it like the cases just to light up the dash clocks?

Must be

Mooooo

kevthegaff wrote: »

The 110 /90 s slow enough to start, I use the heater button for about 10 seconds, then crank it and it starts after 5 to 10 seconds. Always wonder what does it do when I turned the key the other direction and the dash light comes on. What is the reason for the left turn on the ignition?

That operates the heater on the 7840

FintanMcluskey

kevthegaff wrote: »

The 110 /90 s slow enough to start, I use the heater button for about 10 seconds, then crank it and it starts after 5 to 10 seconds. Always wonder what does it do when I turned the key the other direction and the dash light comes on. What is the reason for the left turn on the ignition?

To leave the lights on.

A 110-90 hard to start? That’s a first.

A 663 battery which is what’s found in a 135 is usually adequate on any Winter morning.

Nekarsulm

kevthegaff wrote: »

The 110 /90 s slow enough to start, I use the heater button for about 10 seconds, then crank it and it starts after 5 to 10 seconds. Always wonder what does it do when I turned the key the other direction and the dash light comes on. What is the reason for the left turn on the ignition?

"Left" position on a 90 series Fiat key should put on the side lights on the dfront of the cab, as far as I remember.
You can then take out the key and leave the tractor parked up, yet visible.
A bit like the old VW Golf/Jetta, leaving the indicator stalk in the "indicate" position put on the side light when you took the key out.

Of all things, a Fiat shouldn't need 5 to 10 seconds turning before starting?

Edit: Fintan got there first!

K.G.

minerleague wrote: »

Was going to say get a voltmeter as battery can be blamed but not being charged properly ( Do inbuilt ones read properly over time? )

Cant say but it just might give a clue to the problem

mythos110

I have a landini that has always been a devil to start. Its used well enough during the summer months but could be parked in a shed for a month or more without starting during the winter.
I have replaced the battery a few times over the years which would buy a few months of easier starting but invariably during the winter it would revert to not starting.
I replaced the starter with a high speed starter which again helped for a while.

About 6 months ago I ran a new earth cable to from the negative pole of the battery and earthed it on the starter retaining bolt. This transformed the tractor completely and now starts on the button every time. At the same time I replaced the battery and the battery terminal connectors, but even on a normal day now its not a lazy as it used to be. Most likely the crimped ends of the original earth had corroded over the 17years or so of its life and weren't transferring enough current to start leading to the impression of battery problems. If you want to be sure try starting and check where the earth wire is currently connecting to your chassis. If this is getting hot, it very likely to be your problem.

Bear in mind that after 14months of hard starting the battery could well be on the way out already. Hope this helps

_Brian

Nekarsulm wrote: »

"Left" position on a 90 series Fiat key should put on the side lights on the dfront of the cab, as far as I remember.
You can then take out the key and leave the tractor parked up, yet visible.
A bit like the old VW Golf/Jetta, leaving the indicator stalk in the "indicate" position put on the side light when you took the key out.

Of all things, a Fiat shouldn't need 5 to 10 seconds turning before starting?

Edit: Fintan got there first!

Useless trivia of the day post, that’s called offside parking light on the VAG group of clears.

jd06

Hi
Got a new starter and a 1000 crank battery for the tl
Different machine

Ye were right theres no heater plug on my tl
Thanks for all the replies

_Brian

jd06 wrote: »

Hi
Got a new starter and a 1000 crank battery for the tl
Different machine

Ye were right theres no heater plug on my tl
Thanks for all the replies

Heater plug would be a great addition. It reduces strain on battery and starter in cold weather.

Sami23

jd06 wrote: »

Hi
Got a new starter and a 1000 crank battery for the tl
Different machine

How much them bits set you back

jimmy G M

jd06 wrote: »

Ye were right theres no heater plug on my tl
Thanks for all the replies

Thats mad. No heater plug by design or is it just missing on yours?

Anyway good to hear you are motoring again. A tractor that's not a reliable starter is no use.

jd06

Sami23 wrote: »

How much them bits set you back

I'm not sure yet didn't get the bill
But I think the starter was around 180 plus vat not sure about the battery probably around 150?