I can't get no sleep

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 9:59am #1

Hi all. Wondering if anyone can share any success stories but also need to vent as I'm so exhausted.
I cant seem to get more then 1 to 4 hours a night sleep. This has been going on for years. Last night I got asleep some time after 230 and woke at 5. The night before I got no sleep at all.
Ive read every book on insomia, mindfulness, acceptance, everything. I have an excellent diet and exercise more than anyone I know even when I can barely stand from exhaustion. I go weeks without drinking anything as I know it's not good for sleep but sometimes I drink just so I can fall asleep for a few hours, which isn't even real sleep.
I've gone to therapy, even a sleep clinic. I've tried hypnotism. I have an easy life with no work stress or money worries. I try and meditate every day.
I just feel so broken today and every muscle in my body is aching for sleep.
I have friends who can sleep every night and it seems like superpower to me. I'm 40 now but i think this has been a problem since my early 20s.
My mother hasn't slept in decades either and I believe it's hereditary.
I said it to a doctor before and she actually gave out to me because did I not realise how important sleep is to your health?
I'm doing a degree at night and have assignments due soon but I struggle to read any text or concentrate because I'm so mentally exhausted.
Have any of you ever turned things around after being this bad?

Clarabel · 03-01-2021 11:01am

Yes. Probably not as bad for so long

When I couldn't sleep I'd fear not sleeping itself and not sleeping was preventing me from sleeping.

You've got to be consistent. Just cause something didn't work tonight. It might take weeks in your case.

Check in with your thoughts. The brain is strange what are you thinking about while trying to fall asleep? Is there something there?

YellowLead · 03-01-2021 11:07am

You poor thing! I suffer from lack of sleep but it comes and goes in cycles. I’ll be fine for a few months - get my 6/7 hours and then it’s back to one or two for a few weeks. Those periods of sleeplessness are awful - it’s so hard to focus in work.
As another poster has said - it’s often the anxiety/fear of not sleeping that makes things worse. If I don’t sleep well two nights in a row I become fearful that other sleepless cycle is coming and that perpetuates the issue.
If you had said stress/worries were the cause I’d say journaling.
Have you tried saying to yourself right I’m not going to get any sleep, so I’ll just read all night. I find reading can set me off. Sometimes I put the book down and I feel wide awake again though - so it’s a matter of picking the book up a second time.
Interesting you said it could be hereditary - my mother doesn’t sleep well at all, never has. Some nights she will have 3 or 4 hours, some night none. She won’t take sleeping tablets. I tried them once but they didn’t work just made me extra sleepy during the day but I gave up on them. Have you tried them?

sydthebeat · 03-01-2021 11:16am

Did the doctor prescribe pills yet?

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 11:19am

Clarabel wrote: »

Yes. Probably not as bad for so long

When I couldn't sleep I'd fear not sleeping itself and not sleeping was preventing me from sleeping.

You've got to be consistent. Just cause something didn't work tonight. It might take weeks in your case.

Check in with your thoughts. The brain is strange what are you thinking about while trying to fall asleep? Is there something there?

Well my brain has always been probably overactive since I was a child even, so when I go to bed it tends to dwell on all and everything. Not bad things, I could be thinking about where the birds I see at my bird feeder are now or wonder if Busconnects will ever happen in Dublin. I think I used to be an anxious person when I was younger, which doesn't help for sleep, but since I started meditating and got out of bad relationships etc I am now really chill and generally happy with life, but still I can't sleep.
Yeah I think it's particularly bad now because I wasn't working over Xmas, hopefully I can get back to my 4 hours in the coming week.

You poor thing! I suffer from lack of sleep but it comes and goes in cycles. I’ll be fine for a few months - get my 6/7 hours and then it’s back to one or two for a few weeks. Those periods of sleeplessness are awful - it’s so hard to focus in work.
As another poster has said - it’s often the anxiety/fear of not sleeping that makes things worse. If I don’t sleep well two nights in a row I become fearful that other sleepless cycle is coming and that perpetuates the issue.
Of you had said stress/worries were the cause I’d say journaling.
Have you tried saying to yourself right I’m not going to get any sleep, so I’ll just read all night. I find reading can set me off. Sometimes I put the book down and I feel wide awake again though - so it’s a matter of picking the book up a second time.
Interesting you said it could be hereditary - my mother doesn’t sleep well at all, never has. Some nights she will have 3 or 4 hours, some night none. She won’t take sleeping tablets. I tried them once but they didn’t work just made me extra sleepy during the day but I gave up on them. Have you tried them?

Yeah it gets worse the less sleep I get. I do resign to no sleep, but it doesn't help. Sometimes I just say right I'll read till I'm tired, and read 50% of a huge book till 3am. Still don't get sleepy at all. I don't think I've fallen asleep on a couch or a plane or somewhere that isn't a bed since I was a child. I once took 2 long haul flights in a row with an 8 hour stopover and didn't even sleep for one second, the whole of both planes seemed to be asleep except me. Seem utterly bizarre to me that someone could sleep on a plane!
Sleeping tablets I think are ridiculous, I may as well be knocking myself out with booze. They're not a solution at all as I'm sure you know. I think I took them a couple of times years ago and I was in bits the next day, hungover, and then zero sleep the night after.
I just feel worse than I have in ages today, all of my muscles are aching and I wanted to go running today but I think I'm suffering too much, I feel like I'm 90 years old, so that's why I'm on here moaning.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 11:20am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Did the doctor prescribe pills yet?

Every expert in sleep says pills are a bad idea. I've no interest in taking them they don't fix anything. I find doctors to be useless and unhelpful on this subject from my experience.

Faith · 03-01-2021 12:08pm

You say you've tried therapy - was that general therapy or specifically sleep related?

You could give Sleepio a go. It's an app designed on CBTi - cognitive behavioural therapy for insomnia. It's got a good evidence base and you work through the program over a few weeks at your own pace.

It used to be that you could pay for it, and it was fairly expensive (maybe €250ish?) but I've just looked and it seems it's funded by the NHS in certain areas of the UK. I tried signing up and giving a postcode in one of the areas they don't cover, and it just said it wasn't available unless I was in certain postcodes, so I tried entering one of those postcodes and it accepted my signup. It didn't seek any further information, so you may be able to get it for free if you fib a little about your postcode - although it may ask later on than I've explored.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 12:22pm

Faith wrote: »

You say you've tried therapy - was that general therapy or specifically sleep related?

Both. The CBT sleep woman was so bad it was funny, what wasn't funny was the price she was charging me. Things like "eat half a banana before you go to bed and half when you wake up".
This is the type of quack you're dealing with in the therapy industry so when people say keep trying different ones I'm weary, they cost an effin' fortune too.
Currently reading a book called Mindsight, and another called The Sleep Book, both seem pretty good and were recommended. But to be honest it's just the same things I've read before in dozens of other books.
I'll check that sleep app or whatever it is out thanks, I have a postcode from where I used to live in UK.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 12:54pm

Sierra Necroma wrote: »

Try watching asmr youtube videos. There are good ones of barber's cutting ans washing people's hair. It makes me sleepy when I watch them.

Scientific advise is not to look at screens before bed. Nothing makes me sleepy, I don't even know what that means any more!

sydthebeat · 03-01-2021 1:02pm

FaithlessKnew wrote: »

Every expert in sleep says pills are a bad idea. I've no interest in taking them they don't fix anything. I find doctors to be useless and unhelpful on this subject from my experience.

Short term use is fine when necessary.

Lack of sleep can cause serious medical issues, so don't discount medical advice at your peril.

For long term issues other avenues must be explored.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 1:17pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Short term use is fine when necessary.

Lack of sleep can cause serious medical issues, so don't discount medical advice at your peril.

For long term issues other avenues must be explored.

Yeah I just don't see what good taking pills for a few days would do when I'm right back at square one when I finish.

Hannibal_Smith · 03-01-2021 1:18pm

Did you persevere with the GP? My GP is great, in my eyes anyhow, but sometimes I have to persist if something isn't wrong and it's not visible.

If you haven't done so already try keeping a diary of whats happening. How you can't get your brain to switch off etc and list everything you've tried. When you've done a few days of it, write a synopsis, or list of the main points to go through with the GP.

Sometimes when you're sitting in the chair, there are things you forget to mention that puts it all into perspective for the doctor. So it's handy to have it written in front of you.

wiggle16 · 03-01-2021 1:18pm

OP you say you went to a sleep clinic - what was the outcome of that, or their conclusion?

I suffer with insomnia myself (at time of writing I have now been awake since 8am yesterday) so I know exactly how you feel but what you're describing sounds quite bit past meditation. What did the sleep clinic say?

I'm afraid that I don't have any constructive advice to offer as I've never got a handle on it myself, I just find I go through cycles of barely sleeping for several weeks followed by okay/sufficient sleep for a few weeks, with no real trigger or pattern, but I can function on very little. Sleeping tablets aren't a solution by any means but I wouldn't swear them off completely - they're helpful if used correctly. I've used them in the past to get one or two night's sleep which I find helps me get back into a sleep pattern again for a while, and that's pretty much what they're for. It's seldom that I take them and I never take them for more than a night or two though. It might be something to talk to your/a different GP about?

And I would definitely try the app and CBT that Faith has suggested.

I am interested to know what the sleep clinic said though... I have never gone to a sleep clinic as I know they're expensive, but I can't imagine you left none the wiser - did they tell you anything at all about what they'd put your sleeplessness down to??

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 1:26pm

wiggle16 wrote: »

OP you say you went to a sleep clinic - what was the outcome of that, or their conclusion?

I got the sleep clinic thing free on the NHS when I was living in London. I mean they studied heartbeat and neuron pulses and all that stuff, I don't think I even slept the night I was in there, maybe drifted into some kind of dream for a few minutes.
They just told me my brain is active at night when trying to sleep and I should follow a particular program, which I did for a while and it didn't really help. They basically told me a load of stuff I knew already.
This was about 8 years ago.
I just signed up for that sleepio thing that Faith recommended. It seems pretty good. So I've to keep a sleep diary for the next week, then they will analyse that and advise what to do.
It's a new year now so I'm going to do my best to stick to the course and see what happens.

Airyfairy12 · 03-01-2021 2:33pm

I really suffer with insomnia, ive had it since I was a child. I had been on and off stilnoct sleeping tablets for years and although they put me to sleep id still wake up feeling exhausted like I didnt really get any sleep with them.
My gp recommended antihistamines, she prescribed me some but they were so strong I was sleeping for 14 hours and after a few days, I was like a zombie when I was in work so she recommended I just take over the counter ones and ever since ive been taking one Piriton tablet or one panadol night tablet an hour or two before bed and I get the best nights sleep. My doctor said theyre safe to take long term so better than sleeping pills. Not giving you medical advice, dont take anything before checking with your own doctor but id suggest asking about antihistamines.

wiggle16 · 03-01-2021 3:00pm

Weird thing about antihistamines is that for a very, very few people they have the opposite effect to what theyre supposed to do. I took piriton before for a rash and hoped it would also help me sleep... my skin was on fire after ten mins and I was f*cking wired all night, it was like a fever dream. But apparently thats rare. Defo worth asking your GP, but as AiryFairy said do ask before taking them.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 3:11pm

Antihistamines, I doubt they'd work on me, plus I don't want to have to be reliant on anything to sleep, I just want it to come naturally.
I've taken 20mg of valium before when I was absolutely exhausted and still not slept. I had to have a colonoscopy 2 years ago and the sedative did nothing, everyone else in the ward was coming out fast asleep after the procedure.
Does anyone know where I could get elephant tranquiliser?

Faith · 03-01-2021 3:14pm

The half life of benadryl and other drowsy antihistamines is really long, so it takes a long time to wear off. Any time I've taken one, either at night or to sleep on a flight, waking up and staying awake without being a zombie has been really hard. I'd never take them now when I need to get up the next day.

I'll be really interested to hear how you get on with Sleepio, OP. I downloaded it myself a few years back and was back to sleeping normally within the first week, so I never finished it. My sleep issues were very minor, so I'd imagine it's worth sticking it.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 3:20pm

Faith wrote: »

I'll be really interested to hear how you get on with Sleepio, OP. I downloaded it myself a few years back and was back to sleeping normally within the first week, so I never finished it. My sleep issues were very minor, so I'd imagine it's worth sticking it.

I'll keep you posted Faith. Although I don't know how you made progress in the first week, I watched the videos etc today and until next Sunday all I have to do is fill in a diary on the site as to how I slept and when I woke up. They haven't actually advised me what to do yet!
Maybe your period of bad sleep just passed.

wiggle16 · 03-01-2021 3:45pm

FaithlessKnew wrote: »

I'll keep you posted Faith. Although I don't know how you made progress in the first week, I watched the videos etc today and until next Sunday all I have to do is fill in a diary on the site as to how I slept and when I woke up. They haven't actually advised me what to do yet!
Maybe your period of bad sleep just passed.

OP I'd defo give it a chance, it'd be unwise to dismiss it because it sounds like you're overthinking it or thinking it sounds too simple - but on the other side, if it was very complicated you'd probably find it hard to stick to. Like Faith I'd be interested to see how you get on as well

Faith · 03-01-2021 3:47pm

FaithlessKnew wrote: »

I'll keep you posted Faith. Although I don't know how you made progress in the first week, I watched the videos etc today and until next Sunday all I have to do is fill in a diary on the site as to how I slept and when I woke up. They haven't actually advised me what to do yet!
Maybe your period of bad sleep just passed.

Maybe it was week 2 then - I remember something about sounds you can repeat to yourself that are soothing and that was the last bit I did.

Airyfairy12 · 03-01-2021 4:20pm

wiggle16 wrote: »

Weird thing about antihistamines is that for a very, very few people they have the opposite effect to what theyre supposed to do. I took piriton before for a rash and hoped it would also help me sleep... my skin was on fire after ten mins and I was f*cking wired all night, it was like a fever dream. But apparently thats rare. Defo worth asking your GP, but as AiryFairy said do ask before taking them.

Yeah its a strange one, the prescription antihistamines gave me a sever rash on my face after I took them every night for a month.
2 Piriton tablets at once will have me dying the next day. One panadol night tablet and I sleep well for 7 hours and wake up feeling fresh.
I think its a bit of trial and error. Anything to get a good nights sleep is worth it!

FaithlessKnew wrote: »

I'll keep you posted Faith. Although I don't know how you made progress in the first week, I watched the videos etc today and until next Sunday all I have to do is fill in a diary on the site as to how I slept and when I woke up. They haven't actually advised me what to do yet!
Maybe your period of bad sleep just passed.

Have you tried sleep hygiene?
No caffeine. alcohol or cigarettes' after 4pm, that includes tea & even green & herbal tea.
Limit your screen time, the blue screen on phones and computers simulates daylight tricking your brain into thinking its day time. Id suggest putting the blue screen filter on your phone - most phones have this setting. Id also suggest turning the light on your computer screen down to the lowest it will go. The blue light can really mess with your sleep.

When your in bed, try mindfulness, its great for focusing your mind and helping to fall asleep naturally.
During the day make sure youre getting exercise and atleast one hour of natural day light.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 4:33pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Have you tried sleep hygiene?
No caffeine. alcohol or cigarettes' after 4pm, that includes tea & even green & herbal tea.
Limit your screen time, the blue screen on phones and computers simulates daylight tricking your brain into thinking its day time. Id suggest putting the blue screen filter on your phone - most phones have this setting. Id also suggest turning the light on your computer screen down to the lowest it will go. The blue light can really mess with your sleep.

When your in bed, try mindfulness, its great for focusing your mind and helping to fall asleep naturally.
During the day make sure youre getting exercise and atleast one hour of natural day light.

Well as I said in my original post I exercise more than anyone I know, although today I'm too exhausted to do anything. Normally though it'd be the gym 5 or 6 times a week or jogging every day during lockdown.
And of course, it's insomnia 101 to not have caffeine in the afternoon and no screens 2 hours before bed. Alcohol puts me asleep but if I'm hungover it just screws with my sleeping even more so I try and avoid.
I could probably give my own seminars on the subject, even though none of it works for me.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 4:36pm

I'm sure you've heard this before but focus on your breathing and slowly breath more gently. Block other thoughts from your mind. Helps me to fall asleep, that and doing weights until I collapse!

The Black Oil · 03-01-2021 5:06pm

I'm a bad sleeper (long-term) and I can't remember the last time I felt refreshed after night's sleep. I run 5 times a week, about 65km at the moment. I've always been loathe to use technology as a tool as it seems such an unnatural thing to introduce into what should be a natural process - sleep. I've used my running watch to look at my sleep for a past few weeks, but I don't think it's terribly accurate and sometimes it records nothing, such as the past two nights for me. I also think I'm awake more often for what it records as light sleep. I do laugh when it says I've had 9+ hours, it never feels like it.

You've not said much about your sleep hygiene. I think try and control as many of the lifestyle variables as you can. My work phone goes into do not disturb at a set time and my personal one goes intro grayscale at an earlier time again. The latter is more distracting as a device as I can check boards, etc. You need a good break from it about an hour before your intended bed time. My GP's words were to put a curfew on it. When I'm not on the ball then my poor sleep is probably mostly self-inflicted, though there are other underlying reasons. I still wake each night and find it very difficult to get back to sleep. The unfortunate thing about bad sleep is cumulative effect on mental health and mood and general functioning. Consistency was rightly touched on earlier. I brush my teeth around the same time each night, and turn on the radio as well. Pretty much ready for or in bed around 10-10:45pm. I'm usually well-away from screens at this stage, though I sometimes watch TV, but never really find it interactive or problematic. I also do yoga, not every night, but it's good for my body and mind. Some of those environmental and practical strategies can be useful cues, provided you're consistent.

I did a Diploma with UCD over the summer and it was all via Zoom, 3 hours every Tuesday. I know from this and committee meetings I've done that you can come off the PC feeling wired to the Moon, particularly if something is interactive, chatting and taking notes. I also get some of my best ideas (for work) at night which can be frustrating if I'm feeling quite active. When my mind is very cluttered or active then inevitably sleep is harder because I feel very switched on. When I couldn't sleep in the past I kept an A4 pad near me at night and would write down whatever was in my head. That might be useful too, before going to bed - to get them out of your system.

I do know what you mean about the body. I've often woken to feel mine has been walloped by a 10kg bag of a spuds.

The books I've read are:

Why We Sleep - Matthew Walker

Sleep: The Myth of 8 Hours, the Power of Naps, and the New Plan to Recharge Your Body and Mind - Nick Littlehales

santana75 · 03-01-2021 5:35pm

Ok this may seem like a crazy idea but if you're that desperate you should give it a go. Sleep on the floor. Get yourself a thin mat and sleep on that. I speak from personal experience, the sleep I get from sleeping on the floor has been infinitely superior, prolonged, deeper and refreshing than when I slept in a bed. It's worth a shot.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 5:43pm

Non reg just found my problem similar to your own, has been this way for years and I've tried all the tricks and tips with the exception of the sleep clinic. I've been through too numerous counsellors to mention but I thought I'd share a few things that do help during those times when the exhaustion is overwhelming.

Just a word on Panadol nights. I spent years dependent on (addicted to) panadol nights for sleep during my working life as it wouldn't have been possible to function work wise without them. Unfortunately I developed restless leg syndrome after a few years which can be a side effect of antihistamine and trying to fall asleep when your legs wont stop jamming only made things more complicated. The tremors often extended to my whole body at times and I eventually stopped taking them but only because I no longer have to get up to go to work. I believe they also had a direct effect on my nervous system and I experienced nervous exhaustion as a result which has left me pretty much unable to work since. (early 40's) I would be very cautious in taking them as a solution and advise people to consider the long term effects.
I've tried all kinds of herbal remedies and valerian based products don't seem to work for me but there are one or two that did manage to help me fall asleep. Like panadol night, which would provide me with a window of about twenty minutes where I'm dozy and if I catch it right I'll fall asleep, Melissa Dream by New Nordic is a product that had a similar effect. It's not valerian based and maybe it's a magnesium thing but it did provide that window effect. The other is a herbal night time tea by Pukka, you can buy it in Tesco. It might not knock you out but it does provide a calming state for a half an hour or so which also may give you that window of opportunity or at the very least, a nice cup of relaxing tea.

It is that window which I think is important. Some people reach it by reading a book before bed or watching asmr, drinking banana tea or melatonin milk; it's just that moment where your brain leaves down it's guard and allows you to fall asleep. Getting there is one thing, staying there is another and everything from body temperature to sleeping position or pillow filling could be a factor for me but I've learned that if I dream while I sleep then even if my sleep is short I feel more rested so I religiously take a choline supplement which almost guarantees dream state sleep for me. I started taking it as a liver support supplement and it turns out it made me dream a lot and later discovered it is used as an REM enhancer.

Also, as no one else seems to have suggested weighted blankets thought I'd at least give it a mention. I've only started using one and while I was initially opposed to the weight of it, the first night I tried it I slept for 8 hours. It wasn't like the regular sleep I would have, I don't think I dreamed but it did what it said on the tin. I used it a couple of times but found it too heavy for constant use and am giving it a break until I've picked up a lighter one.

Obviously I don't know all the circumstances of your own personal journey but through a process of elimination I've been able to deduce some common relationship between these symptoms which may be as a result of heritable characteristics (ie an estrogen histamine connection or sensitivities which affect sleep) and wonder if ADHD is a contributing factor (or vice versa, are these contributing factors in adhd). I feel personally that these symptoms are only just part of the larger picture and extends into other areas of my life. I wonder if you've considered the relationship between the mental gymnastics and ADHD and if that might be an area of interest for you to research too as there are pharmacological interventions available which might help resolve the problem.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/cspd/ncps/mental-health/adhd/ (I dont know if I can provide links)

Airyfairy12 · 03-01-2021 6:45pm

FaithlessKnew wrote: »

Well as I said in my original post I exercise more than anyone I know, although today I'm too exhausted to do anything. Normally though it'd be the gym 5 or 6 times a week or jogging every day during lockdown.
And of course, it's insomnia 101 to not have caffeine in the afternoon and no screens 2 hours before bed. Alcohol puts me asleep but if I'm hungover it just screws with my sleeping even more so I try and avoid.
I could probably give my own seminars on the subject, even though none of it works for me.

Sorry, just trying to help. I know how frustrating it can be.
Hope it works out for you.

howyanow · 03-01-2021 7:30pm

Kayderm wrote: »

I'm sure you've heard this before but focus on your breathing and slowly breath more gently. Block other thoughts from your mind. Helps me to fall asleep, that and doing weights until I collapse!

I was going to suggest something similar,a few gentle pilates exercises combined with a focus on breathing.

TheadoreT · 03-01-2021 8:25pm

Sounds maddening, I feel for you.

What's a night for you? Are you lying there trying to sleep most of the time or do you get on with different things because you know you wont sleep.

Maybe just try make peace with it. If you're always looking at new methods of trying to improve the problem it's probably on your mind all the time at night and the obsessional nature of it is keeping your mind racing. Your persistence to find cures could be an actual big part of the problem. Give yourself a month or two break of trying to fix it and adapt a "I'm a **** sleeper and it's how it is" attitude, giving in to it may put your mind at peace a little.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2021 8:55pm

stepstofreedom wrote: »

wonder if ADHD is a contributing factor

No I have a friend with this, it makes his life hell. I can read and study most of the time unless I'm extra exhausted, never had a problem really concentrating. Also play an instrument and that's not a problem
Weighted blankets I don't think would work for me, even with a sheet on me in winter I can be too hot, so something heavy would suffocate me.
I always read books before bed, sometimes for an hour or two, certainly helps relax me but doesn't mean I'm going to sleep!

Sounds maddening, I feel for you.

What's a night for you? Are you lying there trying to sleep most of the time or do you get on with different things because you know you wont sleep.

Maybe just try make peace with it. If you're always looking at new methods of trying to improve the problem it's probably on your mind all the time at night and the obsessional nature of it is keeping your mind racing. Your persistence to find cures could be an actual big part of the problem. Give yourself a month or two break of trying to fix it and adapt a "I'm a **** sleeper and it's how it is" attitude, giving in to it may put your mind at peace a little.

I usually go to bed, read for a bit, or don't read at all, and close my eyes. Then it could be 2 or 3 hours before I maybe drift off for a bit and then wake up again and then it's usually around 5am, I wouldn't usually get asleep after that unless I get lucky and I've slept till 7 or so. Normally go to bed about 2330.
I know they say not to lie in bed if you can't sleep but if I just got up and started doing things I'd never be in bed, and I am so tired that I don't feel like getting up and doing things, I just want to lie there in the dark and quiet.

Yes I have made peace with it as much as I can, as I said I am more active than anyone I know and I try and not let it hold me back in life. Just today I was so wrecked, worse than I have been in a long time, that I needed to vent.

Other people talking about breathing etc, well yeah as I said I try and meditate every day, I try and focus on breathing sometimes and just watch my thoughts and note them.

I actually don't think there's anything anyone can help me with here because I've got about 20 years of research into this at this stage, but it's nice to get it off my chest tbh.

I can't get no sleep

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