Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244528#Comment_120244528

I think Wilkins is very much a coach but who knows.

Strand1970

If Aki moves I would guess its will be France. John muldoon would be welcomed at any of the 4 provinces. Will interesting with flanery reported coming back also.

AccidentallyOnside

What role would muldoon be coming back in?

Bristol haven't exactly been pulling up trees with the quality they've got, mentioned on the rugby pod that Lam could be under a bit of pressure to keep his job.

I'm not saying I don't want him back, the man is a club legend, but the timing and role would need to be right.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244653#Comment_120244653

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244307#Comment_120244307

Yes, it is a rule that you can't outbid another province for a player on their books, presumably this includes centrally contracted players. But we don't know the details of the central contracts, i.e. what are the respective roles, rights, and responsibilities of the provinces and the IRFU. Bundee's central contract was extended until the end of 2024, as I believe has Connor Murray's.

As you will recall from the Henshaw case, a player can still leave at his own request, although that instance concerned the end of a provincial contract. There could always be a mutual agreement among all parties that the differences are irreconcilable and an alternative arrangement agreed upon. I suppose another scenario would be that post RWC, all parties decide to terminate the contract and he leaves Ireland.

Hopefully the 6N intermission and Bundee's time away in camp has provided the space for everyone to step back and reflect with greater maturity on whatever conflict is disrupting the relationship. I do not want to see him in red, and it would be proof to me of a real 'character' failure at a club level. It is true that we now have great options these days at 12, but this is not about mere team sheets - we've lost often enough to know that is not all that counts. Bundee has been a crucial part of our club, arguably the most important player of the professional era at least, and it is vital culturally that this situation is correctly resolved.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246057#Comment_120246057

Presume muldoon would replace Senekal ?

Could see Lam thriving as a Director of rugby tbh.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246057#Comment_120246057

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246302#Comment_120246302

A risk here of recruitment on the basis of sentiment rather than ambition.

Why have things gone wrong at Bristol and what part of the responsibility belongs to the coaching team?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246231#Comment_120246231

Didn't jack mc grath move, mid contract, by mutual agreement?

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246642#Comment_120246642

Yes, you're right, and he was still on a CC but was not getting selected. Obviously the key here is the 'by mutual agreement' bit. If Leinster had wanted to keep him, I guess they could have. Although it would have been perceived negatively, one imagines, by their players.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246302#Comment_120246302

Muldoon I'd love to see back at Connacht as part of a coaching team. He'll have learned a huge amount at Bristol even through the recent poor performances.

I'm not sure if I'd see enough positives in Pat Lam returning. He'll always be legend in the province but rebuilding success would be a huge ask. I thought he displayed stubbornness to a fault towards the end at Connacht in failing to evolve our game plan when it was clear it wouldn't work any more. He also gave notice for the big pay cheque. Bristol have got their recruitment completely wrong in recent years and are now stuck rebuilding an unbalanced squad where far too much money has been given to a small number of players. That's very much on him as head coach.

ShineyShiney

Bundi has been great for Connacht, more than anything I'd like to see it end as positively as it's been for his time here. Ideally that's with another year.

I'd hate to see him at Munster.

I think he will be great value wherever he goes especially if he's out of the international picture post world cup. He's got 3 years left at a good level imo. Lots of longevity in the Polynesian players. Hopefully at Connacht.

The management changes have slightly over shadowed the player contracts, talk of Marmian going has me very disappointed, a brilliant consistent high quality player that's first choice for me now and all season. He'd be a loss imo and also saw online somewhere Delahunt might be off, he's also been a great servant even if we have some decent young players in that position.

Also lack of talk about potential signings in a couple of key positions we've been weak on this year has me a bit worried.

Our selection for Zebre may give an indication on a few of these decisions.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246828#Comment_120246828

In what positions do you think we need signings?

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246231#Comment_120246231

As we saw with Carberry, it doesn’t have to be by mutual agreement. Nor did Leinster agree for Salanoa to go.

if Aki is centrally contracted, he is not contracted to any province. The IRFU may decide that him not being played by Connacht is poor value for their investment.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247063#Comment_120247063

Carberry had been persuaded (wrongly IMO) that it was in his best interests to leave, Leinster didn't want him to go, but there was clearly a diktat from the IRFU to make it happen. Together these facts indicates that 'by mutual agreement' doesn't always mean what people would assume it to mean. Ultimately, Leinster must have agreed to terminate the contract as they could otherwise have sued Joey and Munster for breach.

That is based on the assumption that there isn't some clause in provincial contracts that gives the IRFU god-level powers. And I'm also not persuaded by your suggestion that the provinces have no rights with regard to centrally contracted players. Have you ever seen a provincial or a central contract and are you acquainted with its terms? I'm genuinely curious, as I have never come across one and assumed them to be confidential. That said, you may well be right.

In the case of Salanoa, my understanding is that he had just completed the academy and never had a senior contract. It was a snaky move, but one enabled by Leinster being too casual (i.e. green lighting Aungier's departure to Connacht before nailing down RS on paper).

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246897#Comment_120246897

10, 15, 2 if delahunt goes, 8. Potentially a 9 is Reilly and devine Aren’t trusted to step up and blade is included with Murray retiring from Ireland duty. Potentially a 13 as well

FACECUTTR

I'd add a TH to that unless we re-sign McCoy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246897#Comment_120246897

An out half is a must. We're far too reliant on Jack to the point of playing him under trained, unfit and completely out of form. Fitzgerald hasn't kicked on, seems to have lost belief in himself, and I don't think he'll be renewed. Our other options at ten are really just centers.

We need to solve the fullback problem and if that means a new signing so be it. The only reason TOH starts is that no one else who's been given game time reads the backfield well or provides the defensive solidity we need. I think we still need to develop at least one player there even if we make a signing.

The blend of our centres is worth a look too. It's mainly been down to injuries but we quickly end up playing two inside centres.

The rest will be down to who is re-signed.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247280#Comment_120247280

By mutual agreement means just that. The IRFU having the power to dictate, doesn’t mean mutual agreement. It means the IRFU will do what it thinks is best and the provinces will tow the line. Leinster couldn’t have sued Carberry for breach of Contract. It would effectively mean the IRFU suing itself.

No it’s based on the reality that centrally contracted players are contracted to the IRFU and not the province. The clue is in the name really. Though ultimately the IRFU pay for all the contracts, since none of the provinces are self supporting.

The on paper bit is quiet an important piece with RS. As he had verbally agreed a contract and then Munster came in.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247706#Comment_120247706

I'm starting to wonder if we would be best off going all in on either Hawkshaw or Forde at 10. I do prefer both at 12 but with John Devine and Hugh Gavin coming through it looks like we are going to have a logjam at inside centre in a couple of years.

You are completely right about fullback but with Oran McNulty, Shane Jennings, and Chay Mullins there I'd like to think we can replace from within, although that obviously hasn't happened yet. McNulty honestly hasn't looked good so far but it's hard for a young lad who plays AIL 2B to drop in and out of the team and perform, I wouldn't write him off yet. Jennings is a top tier athlete and broken field runner, he has been playing 15 for Buccs all year after focusing on 13/wing for the couple of seasons preceding, I wonder if that's because we have identified him as a potential long term option there. Mullins looks a top tier prospect and coming off a year in the sevens programme could be primed for a Hugo Keenan/Robert Baloucoune/Jimmy O'Brien type ascent in the 15 a side game.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247851#Comment_120247851

I agree with you at 10, don't see any great prospects available for recruitment right now, so we'll have to look inwards there. Likewise at 15, we're in a position atm where we are still fighting theoretically on two fronts, TOH is picked as the safer pair of hands. Another loss in the URC will effectively put paid to that IMO. Should that come to pass, I'd like to see the remaining minutes given to McNulty and Jennings (who still hasn't made his debut!). McNulty needs a run of games with some more experience around him, his selection until now has been very stop/start.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247851#Comment_120247851

Wonder if we could see Gavin focus on 13 in the future, played there for the Irish u20s in the warm ups.

Think Hawkshaw is more suited to 10 than Forde.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247851#Comment_120247851

Hawkshaw is definitely worth some more time at out half. We don't see how well he trains there, but I feel like the coaching team didn't want to back him there at the start of last season. If we had a second out half they trusted Jack would have come back from injury more slowly - he wasn't ready for first team rugby at the time. It was a long time ago in a misfiring team but my memories are of his place kicking being unreliable and his tactical decision making needing a lot of work. Maybe a full season with the squad and a pre-season this Summer to work on elements of his game might change that.

Cathal Forde looks like he'll be a brilliant centre if he keeps developing. I'd be very wary of moving him anywhere just for the sake of the team. Let him focus on becoming a nailed on starter at 12 unless there's a fit and motivated Bundee in the team ahead of him. Irrespectrive of issues inside the squad we won't see much of Bundee on the pitch between the 6N, warm up games, and World Cup.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247916#Comment_120247916

Gavin could play anywhere from 11-15. He's an excellent athlete, especially considering he's only just turned 19 and came through the youths system and therefore would have had less access to high level S&C coaching.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248351#Comment_120248351

Agreed, always wary of shoehorning an excellent player into being an average 10, see Carbery, J. Just think that Forde is a bit more controlled than Hawkshaw and also younger so has more time to (re)adapt to the position.

If Cathal Forde want to play 10 and the incoming coaching team think he's got the potential then I'd happily see him have a proper go at it once his place kicking is where it needs to be. I'd just hate to see him bouncing around between 10, 12, and most likely 15 rather then developing faster in one role.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248480#Comment_120248480

Between the jes, wegians and being in Connacht age grade teams since he was 15/16 he would have got quite lot high level S&C coaching. Also isn't his dad a former pro player so could give bit advice in that area as well? Don't think he'd got much less s&c compared to many others when take those into account.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249635#Comment_120249635

There is a significant difference in Connacht schools and Leinster school S&C. Connscht schools would be next to none. Most schools don’t have weight lifting rooms

Wegians89

Bundee to Munster rumours dead now surely

ShineyShiney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246897#Comment_120246897

15: I don't believe we have a 15 of the quality required or of the potential in the near future in our current squad. Sorry but McNulty looks way off for me and toh while better last 3 games doesn't have it as a starter except as a back up.

13: Tom Farrell is top end, behind him we are very limited.

8: Drop off from boyle is too great, SHL has been hard working but looks too small while Butler is having an excellent season he's far more a flanker.

Happy to back youth at 9, 10 & 2

For my money I'd back Hawkshaw at 10

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249789#Comment_120249789

I know but Between all of the set ups he's involved in he would get equivalent of what many of the schools get in terms of S&C.

FACECUTTR

Some people are keeping it alive even though Friend said he wasn't going anywhere.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249802#Comment_120249802

I'd be shocked (and disappointed for Connacht) if he moved to Munster.

Whatever issues there are between him and Connacht can be ironed out, especially with a new coaching team coming on board.

He's been a great signing for Connacht and if he's staying in Ireland I hope he stays at Connacht.