Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

BrokenMan

We are both wrong. Connacht are 4th and play 9th in the HC pool B. Not decided yet.

Thought it was 9th in pool A which is lyon.

My bet is Ulster.

AccidentallyOnside

Team selection made no sense, as someone else said: why go so strong against brive when we knew they were sending their C team and send a mixed team for the decider.

Only upside were ralston and again, Forde. His pass was never forward, the angle they used to make the decision was a disgrace. And then Newcastle get one where the guy underarms it forward.

Thems the breaks. Real chance missed.

ClanofLams

Don't think it's an overreaction to say heads should roll based on this game alone. Fuckin maddening. Friend is gone anyway, there is no indication that Wilkins is up to being in charge and he would have the weakest CV of any coach appointed by Connacht in a long time. Change is needed.

AccidentallyOnside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139710#Comment_120139710

Connacht are 4th

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139748#Comment_120139748

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139721#Comment_120139721

No they are 5th, they got 0 points and lost by 14 meaning they finish below Bristol Bears on PD.

kita99

Cnclusion.

Connacht wanted to be defeated. Or too sweet for rugby football.

connemara man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139756#Comment_120139756

Yup playing Benetton away

AccidentallyOnside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139756#Comment_120139756

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139710#Comment_120139710

Oh ....you're right :(

Shambles

Thrashssacre

Such a Connacht thing to go from looking like topping the pool after that inside ball in the last 15 minutes to dropping out of the home knockout places and behind a team who were docked 5 points earlier in the week in the space of 15 minuites, just not good enough Connacht haven't earned the right to treat the challenge cup with any distain and the team they went over was akin to what we bemoan the French over. Got what they deserved and I hope Benneton give them a hiding as they seem to be giving the tournament a real go sending strong sides and pulling a decent crowd in.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139774#Comment_120139774

I am genuinely staggered at the incompetence involved. Even aside from success of team, it has cost Connacht a few hundred thousand minimum. If they appoint Wilkins, I won’t be renewing season ticket, had enough of this absolute ineptitude.

BrokenMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139756#Comment_120139756

You're right, sorry.

That's shambolic.

Makes that last try even worse to take.

Jump_In_Jack

For the knockout stages Connacht are effectively ranked 7th, as the Champions Cup teams come into the Round of 16 ranked above the 5th and 6th placed teams from the pools.

So Connacht slipped 3 places by conceding that last try.

R16 7: number 2-ranked club in ECC Pool B v number 5-ranked club in ECC Pool A

That means away to Benetton,

QF 2: winner R16 7 v winner R16 3

R16 3: number 3-ranked club in ECC Pool A v number 10-ranked club in HCC Pool B

then away to the winner of Cardiff V Clermont/Sale/Ulster/London Irish,

Then away in the semi-final unless the number 6 ranked team from pool B wins all their away knockout matches and meet Connacht.

Final in the Aviva

Borders no.2

I think we would get a home game in quarters if we beat Treviso which will be a very tough task in its own right but Toulon away would be the semi final so today effectively ended any slim hope of making the final.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139845#Comment_120139845

No, not so

connemara man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139845#Comment_120139845

The higher ranked team will have home advantage

Borders no.2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139894#Comment_120139894

Would we not take Treviso's higher seeding if we won? I'm using Wikipedia as the source which I know has no credence but just wondering

connemara man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139916#Comment_120139916

No it'd go back to our original pool seeding

Jump_In_Jack

Just seeing that note about South African teams having to play in Europe, so perhaps if meet Lions or Cheetahs in the semi could potentially get home advantage, or perhaps the South African team would get to select a European ground to play in, for example the Aviva.

tintedgreenglasses2016

Feic the calculator. That was as bad as it gets. Nothing more to say

Dubinusa

Friends can't leave soon enough. The man is out of his depth.

SqueakyKneecap

I have a fierce amount of respect for the Connacht Clan travelling support (I was a season ticketer that saw cowardly showings in person in Sale, Coventry, Toulouse and Gloucester) but they've clapped off too many gutless showings, like tonight.

There's folks that would've forked out hundreds of euros to travel and watch that while players shrug it off in their sponsored car or 6 figure pay packets.

We never see Ruane and co held accountable because "shur we won it in 2016". An extanded stadium might hide them from accountability again.

AccidentallyOnside

Some people would want to catch a hold of themselves. I'm annoyed like anyone else that yesterday didn't go our way but to say it was gutless or that people are out of their depth is nonsense. The game didn't go as planned but there was no quit from the players.

In hindsight I'm sure they pick a different team but I don't think any of us would have thought going in the top spot, or even second, was an option. The players and management all have questions to answer after last night, and there will be repercussions around contracts purely based on the financial impact. This was not just us, both Cardiff and toulon underestimated their opponents against and the way teams engage with the tournament distorts results and expectations.

That all said we still should have been able to win or atleast get bonus points against a big but ultimately poor Newcastle team.

Let's see what happens next week against the lions because we need a result there.

Only upside: treviso is a lovely away day ☺️

Borders no.2

I woke this morning even more annoyed. People complaining isn't really with hindsight. Last weeks team was almost fully loaded for our easiest game in years.

At the time I though it was to get a few tries, boost confidence etc and that we'd still have a strong team going to Newcastle but even allowing for Bristol being deducted the 5 points we still needed at least a losing bonus point to get a home quarter final and given how the seeding works from quarter final on our aim should have been to get as high a seeding as possible. The other results falling in our favour was difficult to predict but what wasn't was that we neededa result of some description.

We haven't won in England since 2009 and i think only twice in our history so how our coaching team could underestimate a close to full strength Newcastle is mind boggling.

Even on the bench there was no real insurance policy. To have Murray, Prendergast, Porch and in particular Marmion and Carty sitting at home was incompetence of the highest order. Id be as critical of Carty as anyone this season but when was the last time Fitzgerald played 10. Starting that 9 and 10 was crazy.

The first 20 minutes was shameful from any professional team. OK the ref was very hot on offside in a way that others wouldn't but it was just one stupid penalty after another along with terrible kicks out on the full. Newcastle effectively didn't do anything creative to get access for the first 3 tries. It was just terrible discipline.

We fought back well for 10 or 15 minutes but once we got back in contention we shot ourselves in the foot again when we went to the corner. The try after half time should never happen in the space it did

We've been rotating heavily all season and it hasn't really worked. Our chances of reaching the play offs in the URC are very low and even if we do make top 8 it mightnt be enough for Champions Cup qualification.

We really targeted the Ulster game and then didn't show up against a team horribly out of form and again last night everyone would have known the importance of that game before kick off yet we turn in that opening 20 minutes.

This has happened too often. I'd generally say Friend has done OK but inconsistency has killed us and he seems to have packed his bags and just handed the reins to Wilkins who is clearly not up to the job.

I hope the one good thing that might come from this defeat is those responsible for appointing the next coach realise that we need a fresh start.

kita99

I agree the above comment.

Icannot understand that there were three openside fl inthe 3rd row,and why remain young and premature SH so long although Blade was at the bench and etc.The DOR and HC must answer to them,I think.Finaly 2head system is not functual.Friend should take long vacation at once.

ClanofLams

Agree with all of what Borders said.

When you factor in that a losing bonus point was needed to secure a home last 16 in any case not going full strength is inexcusable. If any of other provinces made a similar mistake in the champions cup, there would be near riots.

There is a zero percent chance it will happen but Friend should be told thanks and best of luck tomorrow morning with Elwood made interim head coach until the end of the season. There doesn’t seem to be any accountability at Connacht and there hasn’t been for a long time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141899#Comment_120141899

I'm literally baffled by the decision they made. What are you resting those guys for? There's the 6N around the corner, where the guys not selected here for the most part (John Porch, Kieran Marmion, Jack Carty, likely Cian Prendergast, Niall Murray) will play no rugby (or very little), and Bundee hasn't been picked in weeks.

It's not like there's even a whole lot to play for in the URC.

Can't recall a recent example of a coach letting the whole team down like this, pure idiocy.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141926#Comment_120141926

Who knows - probably think they're helping development or something......Instead Connacht have lost the opportunity to have all home knockouts until a potential European final in Dublin, a very rare opportunity.

I'm not sure when, if ever, I saw decision making as bad in professional sport.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120141899#Comment_120141899

Do we know who's picking the team now? Could it be Wilkins? The selection yesterday was a severe error (three opensides in the back row?!), I'd rather it was made by the guy going out the door than our probable future head coach.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142010#Comment_120142010

I don’t but I would presume Friend at least sign offs on team selections or has a level of input into it.

Clearly Wilkins shouldn’t get the job. Leaving aside yesterday, there is no reason why he should be top of the list. I wanted Friend gone last season, they have done ok but no more, why the second in command is presumed head coach in waiting is beyond me. Other than people at senior level in Connacht seem to be content drifting along without any ambition or vision.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142044#Comment_120142044

I agree. Friend did a great job of improving our culture and dragging us out of the doldrums of the Keane era, I think we need something similar again.

Utopia Parkway

Benetton v Connacht.

Winners at home then against the winners of Cardiff v Sale.

AccidentallyOnside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142187#Comment_120142187

Unfortunately not, the home team is the highest surviving team, so our only chance is if we win away twice and face the 8th placed team in the semi.....so virtually 0.

Dubinusa

It's probably best for the complete enema. Pink slip the entire coaching ticket.

SqueakyKneecap

You'd have to laugh at how horrifically we togs'd ourselves despite playing a Falcons team that were already as good as gone and with a nice break till the next game. Wilkins has been a disaster in every capacity he's undertaken so far in his tenure.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142455#Comment_120142455

People keep saying this but his one season as attack coach was very promising.

tintedgreenglasses2016

To play a full strength team against a secondary Brive team and then play an under strength team against a fully stacked Newcastle team wasn't the best ever decision Andy has made

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142187#Comment_120142187

Seems like if Cardiff win we would be away again but home if Sale win.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142624#Comment_120142624

No, Sale are the higher ranked team

Extremely disappointed after the loss. The coaching staff knew that Newcastle had three weeks off and would likely field a decent side. They've been playing reasonably well lately, winning games in the league, and clawing their way up the Prem table. I understand that they need to give players opportunities but starting an inexperienced 9-10-12 combination who have barely any professional minutes together in a backline that's been shuffled around this season looked risky to me before we even kicked off. We put out a stronger side to learn very little against Brive and now we've blown a sporting and financial opportunity of a home pathway in the Challenge Cup.

Aside from the improvements the forwards have made it's been a very frustrating season. We've needed to change our attacking structures half way through the season, we've never managed to build the solid combinations required to move players in and out seamlessly, and our consistency is all over the place.

There's obviously been some kind of serious problem inside the dressing room with Bundee, Andy Friend is moving on, we're replacing a minimum of two of the coaching staff in the Summer, and I've no faith in Pete Wilkins to improve us. The highlight of his long tenure has been some flowing attack but it came at the expense of having players positioned to defend and got found out quite fast. Friend's been pretty clear that Wilkins has had overall responsibility for both attack and defense and has been defacto head coach this season.

IMHO it's time for change. Keep Dewald Senekal and Cullie Tucker but bring in a new head coach from outside. I think my season ticket will be getting retired at renewal time if the branch confirm Wilkins as head coach. After years of supporting Connacht through thick and thin, I just don't feel engaged enough with the team anymore to keep prioritising trips to the Sportsground over other things.

ElisaAtWar

From my perspective what is most bothering is that for all the 40+ players under contract there is only one team. The rest seem ordinary.

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142726#Comment_120142726

Maybe he's wrong.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1617210742918324225

KBurke85

I think the teams coming in from the Champions Cup don’t get home games and are ranked lower than the teams in the Challenge cup from the start

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143170#Comment_120143170

They are ranked higher but if they aren’t getting home games that’s a bit strange that they are ranked higher.

Good news for Connacht if true!

Jump_In_Jack

This is the info on the EPCR website,

…

R16 5: number 4-ranked club in ECC Pool B v number 9-ranked club in HCC Pool A

R16 6: number 3-ranked club in ECC Pool B v number 10-ranked club in HCC Pool A

R16 7: number 2-ranked club in ECC Pool B v number 5-ranked club in ECC Pool A

R16 8: number 1-ranked club in ECC Pool B v number 6-ranked club in ECC Pool A

Quarter-finals

2.6 Clubs with the higher rankings from the pool stage will have home venue advantage in the quarter-final matches as follows:

…

So from that the ranking appears to be the Champions Cup teams are ranked higher than the 5th and 6th teams from the Challenge Cup, and it states the higher ranked team from the pools (no mention of it involving two separate pools HCC and ERCC) will have home venue advantage, says nothing about HCC teams not being allowed have home advantage, but if the EPCR clarified that today then fair enough, but they should have had it in the rules on the website.

typhoony

I always thought Friend was a bit of a bluffer talking up our scrum and talking up an unproven player at center to try to deflect from not picking Bundee, but selection in general for games has been acceptable, not sure I agreed with him constantly rotating centres. But this weekend his bluffing was found out

FACECUTTR

I see Prendergast picked up a foot injury in training last week. That's why he didn't travel. No excuse for the other first choice players not to be involved in what was our most important match. I really do hope Wilkins goes along with Friend.

Former Coach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145547#Comment_120145547

Jack picked up an injury during the week too which explains his absence.

The issue with Bundee should have been resolved weeks ago though. He is and has been a talismanic player for us and , no matter what the issue is, it should have been sorted and he should have been selected for those recent games. The reality now is that we’ll only see him a few more times in a Connacht jersey this season.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120146032#Comment_120146032

We dont know what happened with Bundee, but based on snippets I've heard, he's been training alone.

Considered he's supposedly signed on for another season, and it doesn't seem like he's injured, my best guess is that he's been disciplined.

Could be a case that he was suspended for a month. Who knows?

All I know, is that he didnt look happy coming off against Ulster. If he said something insulting to any of the coaches, or did something worthy of a ban, well then it's better that he serves the ban completely.

Talisman or not, you can't have any players thinking they are bigger than the team. I've gone very cold on Friend, and the majority of the coaching ticket for the last season, and love Bundee, but I'd still rather make sure that there is a level of authority that is followed by everyone.

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120146232#Comment_120146232

He may not have looked happy coming off against Ulster at a very early stage of the game, but truth said he was brutal. And there were comments from the Clan that night which were a bit harsher. Think Bundee has done his time

ElisaAtWar

And Conor Fitz is not even close enough to being a provincial player. It's time for a proper clean out. Many talk about TOH as being a burden but there is not one player that has stood up. Hansen can't do it, Porch can't do it. Ralston is incredibly poor in all positions. Bolton has been a disaster