Will the unionists give up in frustration?

Sunny Disposition

Obviously not giving an inch is part of the culture and some will never deviate at all from that.
But I was watching Sammy Wilson in the Commons debate about Brexit, which he praised, while also making a totalky gratuitous criticism of the Republic of Ireland economy and I wondered will another generation of Ulster Protestants keep going with this nonsense?
Sammy was part of a generation that despised the IRA so his attitude is totally understandable. But will younger Protestants really want to continue foisting themselves on a UK that is uninterested and hating the Republic? Might younger ones want more separation from the UK, almost independence, or could they even say feck it, what’s the point in cutting ourselves off from everyone else in Ireland, and just accept a 32 county State makes a lot of sense?
Surely the unionism of Wilson and the DUP in general can’t last much longer.

JasonStatham

Hopefully some young people from NI would come on here and tell us what they think.

Zebra3

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Obviously not giving an inch is part of the culture and some will never deviate at all from that.
But I was watching Sammy Wilson in the Commons debate about Brexit, which he praised, while also making a totalky gratuitous criticism of the Republic of Ireland economy and I wondered will another generation of Ulster Protestants keep going with this nonsense?
Sammy was part of a generation that despised the IRA so his attitude is totally understandable. But will younger Protestants really want to continue foisting themselves on a UK that is uninterested and hating the Republic? Might younger ones want more separation from the UK, almost independence, or could they even say feck it, what’s the point in cutting ourselves off from everyone else in Ireland, and just accept a 32 county State makes a lot of sense?
Surely the unionism of Wilson and the DUP in general can’t last much longer.

DUP is full of religious nutters who believe the world is only a few thousand years old and can't face the reality of demographic change.

Their outdated beliefs and "values" ensure the brightest young minds in their community don't join them.

It'll get a dwindling number of their MPs re-elected over the next decade, and then somebody will finally wake up.

I'd have thought North Belfast would've given them the shake up they badly need to move in to the 1990s, but it looks like it's still business as usual.

Quantum Erasure

You'd hope so

ILoveYourVibes

WHO the DUP ?Give up their salaries and cash etc?

Not on your life.

They are on the gravy train

No surrendering their cash.

Strumms

Britain don’t want them, they’d hand them to us in a fûcking heartbeat.. they are simply too much effort, too expensive, a pain in the hole for them. The only benefit NI holds for the Brits really is a strategic one. It costs them billions per decade.

ILoveYourVibes

Strumms wrote: »

Britain don’t want them,.

They wanted them when they needed their votes in parliment.

And if NI goes ..its more likely scotland and wales might ..they don't want that not now.

The uk will hold on to NI tight right now.

Plus they prob think they can use it against us now in the eu strategically

RandomName2

Strumms wrote: »

billions per decade.

per year

Hamsterchops

JasonStatham wrote: »

Hopefully some young people from NI would come on here and tell us what they think.

Yes indeed, but from both sides of the divide, both Green & Orange opinions from residents of NI.

We're very good down here at telling them what to do, that they are crazy not joining with us and becoming part of this Republic, but what do they want? That's what matters.

touts

Anyone care what we in the republic want because besides a few very vocal Sinners the vast majority don't want a United Ireland. It is economic suicide and we'll be dealing with a violent terrorist insurgency by the hardline Unionists for decades.

bilbot79

If we edge towards unification and they watch our scumbags gleefully lording it over them, they will be as entrenched as Sammy

paddyref

RandomName2 wrote: »

per year

Problem now is that gravy train is over, both from the EU and Tory handouts, where are they going to source viable revenue.

one world order

As long as a majority of Catholics prefer to be part of Britain I don't see protestants changing their minds. In the south we have history of severe recessions so they are much better off to avoid us

ancapailldorcha

The DUP have killed Unionism. They had everything. They never even had to account for the RHI scandal or even compromise on an Irish language act or abortion and they blew it because they wanted to be more British or something equally insipid. Now they've shown the whole world what a venal little group of odious religious nutjobs they are.

Mimon

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

Finty Lemon

Hardliners will be hardliners, as grotesque as each other.

The biggest threat to a UI however is peace, normalisation of cross border travel, and a growing secular middle class in NI. That is why a smoothly operated Brexit may be a problem for the UI advocates, as the destabilisation hoped for will not materialise. A new disruption of Stormont will be needed, and will be delivered a few months after Brexit beds in and Covid begins to settle down. Some trumped up crisis will do the trick.
Any border poll in the next 25 years would be comfortably defeated and is therefore a futile exercise. SF will still push for it, to see it happen before the septuagenarian semtex brigade all die of old age and boredom.
The DUP are too stubborn and too thick to see that the normalising route is the key to NI survival.

ArnoldJRimmer

I'd like to think that the generations since the peace process in the North can leave the past behind them, but I think its going to take longer than some may hope for. Look at families in the Republic who will still vote only Fianna Fail or Fine Gael until they die because of the Civil War a hundred years ago. And thats only changing due to the crash.

I know life tends to move faster these days, but there'll be an obnoxiously loud voice shouting 'Ulster Says No' for some time yet, whether they're ruled from Belfast, London or Dublin. I just really hope that I'm wrong.

gormdubhgorm

Mimon wrote: »

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

Yeah sort of like a half way house a bit of one and a bit of the other.

Rory Mcllroy is a prime example of that new middle class generation. Who sees himself primarily as Northern Irish, then British, and Irish. Depending on the weather!

Charles Babbage

Mimon wrote: »

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

If you are "northern" Irish then you have to justify why there should be a border between one townland in Monaghan and a neighbouring one in Fermanagh.

dd973

touts wrote: »

Anyone care what we in the republic want because besides a few very vocal Sinners the vast majority don't want a United Ireland. It is economic suicide and we'll be dealing with a violent terrorist insurgency by the hardline Unionists for decades.

Lots of people reckon that but look at it this way, they've had their separatist enclave already and it was a social, cultural and economic basketcase, it wouldn't be like the Basques trying to carve out their own state from Spain.

Relief if anything could be the overwhelming sentiment that could follow a border poll in favour of unity and preparation for a new settlement, there was never an 'Irish question/problem' as the Brits term it but a British problem residual in the North of Ireland.

If a United Ireland was declared at 03.00 this morning, people in the Loyalist areas of Belfast would still wake up in their houses later, still in Ireland, everything would change but nothing would at the same time.

dd973

Mimon wrote: »

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

I don't deny such a thing exists, it's been a separate jurisdiction for decades however there's a cop out element with polling up there, people not willing to declare religious or political affiliation and that offers some neutrality.

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Yes indeed, but from both sides of the divide, both Green & Orange opinions from residents of NI.

We're very good down here at telling them what to do, that they are crazy not joining with us and becoming part of this Republic, but what do they want? That's what matters.

There he is.

joseywhales

The words "never,never.....never" spring to mind

BonnieSituation

Mimon wrote: »

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

Has there? And who would that be among now?

BonnieSituation

dd973 wrote: »

Lots of people reckon that but look at it this way, they've had their separatist enclave already and it was a social, cultural and economic basketcase, it wouldn't be like the Basques trying to carve out their own state from Spain.

Relief if anything could be the overwhelming sentiment that could follow a border poll in favour of unity and preparation for a new settlement, there was never an 'Irish question/problem' as the Brits term it but a British problem residual in the North of Ireland.

If a United Ireland was declared at 03.00 this morning, people in the Loyalist areas of Belfast would still wake up in their houses later, still in Ireland, everything would change but nothing would at the same time.

If a United Ireland is STILL an option after a century, perhaps that whole "Protestant State for a Protestant people" is borked?

tabby aspreme

David Mcwilliams was correct when he said, Ulster Unionists never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity

Junkyard Tom

The strategic vision of goldfish. The very first thing they should have sought to do in 1921 was make the north a happy home for their Catholic neighbours but they fucked it up over and over, and over, again and are still fucking it up 100 years later, Unionism is utterly beyond redemption.

Hamsterchops

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There he is.

And here you are

... and?

Fr Tod Umptious

touts wrote: »

Anyone care what we in the republic want because besides a few very vocal Sinners the vast majority don't want a United Ireland. It is economic suicide and we'll be dealing with a violent terrorist insurgency by the hardline Unionists for decades.

There is a strong romantic desire for a united Ireland in the south.

If there ever is a border poll things like economics will go out the window if favour of the Irish equivalent of "sun lit uplands".

It would be like Brexit in the sense that those supporting it would not have thought it out properly.

Finty Lemon

Charles Babbage wrote: »

If you are "northern" Irish then you have to justify why there should be a border between one townland in Monaghan and a neighbouring one in Fermanagh.

Why so? 94% of people in ROI have agreed to it.

But what if you can move freely across that line, trade openly, meet your neighbours socially, worship where you like, play football or rugby with and against them, speak English Irish or Scots wherever you like? All while an administrative border remains.

You should visit the town of Baarle Nassau in the Netherlands sometime. It is a remarkable example of two communities living side by side in prosperity. But sure who is interested in that?

touts

touts wrote: »

Anyone care what we in the republic want because besides a few very vocal Sinners the vast majority don't want a United Ireland. It is economic suicide and we'll be dealing with a violent terrorist insurgency by the hardline Unionists for decades.

It'd be more like East/West reunification in German probably. The hardline unionists would probably move to Scotland

Dyr

The hilarious thing about Brexit is the Shinners had to come out and say they were agin it even though they secretly really wanted it to happen and the DUP had to say they for it even though they were terrified it might happen

Much like FF and FG say they're in favour of an All Ireland set up even though they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

That politics, folks.

O'Neill

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The strategic vision of goldfish. The very first thing they should have sought to do in 1921 was make the north a happy home for their Catholic neighbours but they fucked it up over and over, and over, again and are still fucking it up 100 years later, Unionism is utterly beyond redemption.

They've hardly made it a happy home for their own voters eithers tbh. The DUP share alot in common with the Republican Party (ironically) than they do with any British party imo.

Finty Lemon

Bambi wrote: »

The hilarious thing about Brexit is the Shinners had to come out and say they were agin it even though they secretly really wanted it to happen and the DUP had to say they for it even though they were terrified it might happen

Much like FF and FG say they're in favour of an All Ireland set up even though they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

That politics, folks.

Indeed. The disappointment among SF on the prospect of an orderly Brexit is hilarious

AMKC

I can not see The UK been out of Europe for long. I give it a decade at the most before the UK goes bust and the IMF is called in and they look to get back into Europe after realising what a huge mistake they made one that might see there precious Union fall apart with Northern Ireland Joining us and Scotland and Wales looking for Independence so they can get back into the EU all within the next decade I say.

Qiaonasen

It's gonna be hilarious if Scotland vote to leave which I think they will.

Hamsterchops

Qiaonasen wrote: »

It's gonna be hilarious if Scotland vote to leave which I think they will.

Hilarious?

Not sure that's the correct word, with half of Scotland upset and angry about the seperation while he other half (just over) is celebrating the breakup! England & Wales free & happy to take a new course without the extra ballast of Scotland on their shoulder? Maybe that's amusing? I don't know.

Would we find this hilarious, well I wouldn't.

FrancieBrady

A disorderly Brexit would have entrenched too many and made a UI a divisive violent thing.
Not a religious man but I prayed it would be a deal that saw the UK leave.

A proper UI will happen only if we are prosperous, a UI that can work seamlessly and without much rancour.

The effects of Brexit will take longer to be felt now, which for a UI will be a better thing. Unionists will not even feel the two continuing to merge together and will have no big scary things to point at. Come a border poll the issues will be clear as bell for them.

Many of the unionists are very very deep. They do not want to be part of a United Ireland. But they are slowly diminishing in numbers and increasingly be rejected by Britian. England Scotland and Wales are the core of Britain.

We seen how much England wanted Scotland to stay in the last referendum. There is no such sentiment afforded to Northern Ireland. In fact its pretty embarrassing the way they have basically been ushered half way out the door with this Brexit deal. They are now 2nd tier Brits.

Dyr

Of course theres always the possibility that the English will vote for independance from the rest of the UK

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Many of the unionists are very very deep. They do not want to be part of a United Ireland. But they are slowly diminishing in numbers and increasingly be rejected by Britian. England Scotland and Wales are the core of Britain.

We seen how much England wanted Scotland to stay in the last referendum. There is no such sentiment afforded to Northern Ireland. In fact its pretty embarrassing the way they have basically been ushered half way out the door with this Brexit deal. They are now 2nd tier Brits.

Most of Unionism have seen that and accepted it, more have been forced to see it by..well...Unionism itself by it's actions over the last couple of decades.

Moderate Unionism has accepted that a UI will likely happen and I reckon they'll be ok for that and up for it if it happens.

The evidence is as plain as day. Imagine for a second what would have happened if a sea border was suggested to Ian Paisley Snr?

The rump of belligerent intolerant Unionism could only muster handfuls in the upstairs rooms of pubs to object to it.

Hamsterchops

In the case of NI voting to leave the United Kingdom, I'm guessing that we'd have a new devolved Stormont administration, run and funded by Dublin the new holder of the purse strings), instead of London, which would be fading away into the distance ....

Or might we run & fund Northern Ireland directly from Dublin (as their new Capital City)?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In the case of NI voting to leave the United Kingdom, I'm guessing that we'd have a new devolved Stormont administration, run and funded by Dublin the new holder of the purse strings), instead of London, which would be fading away into the distance ....

Or might we run Northern Ireland directly from Dublin (as their new Capital City)?

100 years on it is plain as day that 'devolved anything' has failed the people of NI and of this island. It's latest effect is to represent a threat to the island's health.

It would be a huge mistake to make again IMO.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You mean a huge mistake not to leave the UK?

I guess that's what you mean, but dare I mention Health, and their superior health service.
(ducks below parapet)

No, I meant a huge mistake to create another 'devolved' government. It hasn't worked and has resulted in tragic death and is now a health threat. It's 'superior' health service requiring our help in the form of ambulances and bed space.

Fuascailteoir

How does Bryson manage to get so much coverage. Even if his views do belong to a long forgotten time, it would be a little more understandable if he could pen them in an articulate manner. I stead of that he is like an incoherent belligerent drunk rambling to nobody in particular. Who does he appeal to?

FrancieBrady

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

How does Bryson manage to get so much coverage. Even if his views do belong to a long forgotten time, it would be a little more understandable if he could pen them in an articulate manner. I stead of that he is like an incoherent belligerent drunk rambling to nobody in particular. Who does he appeal to?

He's a comedic throwback atm.

Fred Cryton

What a way for Unionists to celebrate the centenary of their Statelet....with an economic border down the Irish Sea because they backed the wrong horse. You have to just laugh.

The biggest impediment to a United Ireland is of course SF, with their populist left wing politics straight out of Venezuela or East Germany. A UI would only empower them so that's why FF and FG will hesitate to ever go down that route.

astrofool

Is it not effectively done already? Just with the British funding the NI deficit, they're already separated from Great Britain, access north/south is still seamless, about the only way to notice it is the miles and sterling change.

FrancieBrady

Fred Cryton wrote: »

What a way for Unionists to celebrate the centenary of their Statelet....with an economic border down the Irish Sea because they backed the wrong horse. You have to just laugh.

The biggest impediment to a United Ireland is of course SF, with their populist left wing politics straight out of Venezuela or East Germany. A UI would only empower them so that's why FF and FG will hesitate to ever go down that route.

Not going too well that strategy is it? They've had to practically merge to try and stop the inevitable.

Michael's sleeveen attempt to woo Unionism with his Unity Unit hasn't had much of an impact. It's a fairly limp attempt to take control of the UI agenda. But we'll see. They certainly want in on the act...too big a prize for any self respecting Irish party to resist - delivering a UI.

6541

The way I look at The North is like this.
Imagine having a free house, all bills Paided for by the landlord.
You completely dislike the landlord and jump at any chance you have to run the hot water tap or burn the gas.
This is how northern Nationalist's should look at GB. They should take every state assistants going, pay as little tax as possible and ignore all sense of belonging to the collective know as Northern Ireland.

mikep

There's not a hope in hell of them giving up..

They can't wait for the day when they can have an Orange march down O'Connell Street once the SF plan for reunification gets through..