Man Shot by Gardai in Clonee

Tpcl20

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-dies-after-being-shot-by-garda%C3%AD-following-standoff-in-co-dublin-1.4447470

He was wielding a knife in his garden and the gardaí tried to subdue him with non-lethal force before they shot at him five times, hitting him three times and killing him.

His family were in the house at the time but have been brought elsewhere.

A crazy situation with a very unfortunate outcome. Stuff like this happens here rarely enough that it's still shocking to me. I hope this isn't a precedent, especially after seeing the force with which the stupid gurriers on the Luas throwing bottles were manhandled off it.

I know the Gardaí like everyone else are at the end of their tether at the moment, but there's a worrying increase in violent apprehensions of offenders. Fair enough if it's warranted, but that guy literally brought a knife to a gun fight.

Tpcl20

Just spotted that now. Wasn't sure where Clonee actually was. The house is actually on the Dublin side of the border which would still not put it in Dublin City but more in the NW.

Tzardine

Unconfirmed reports that he robbed the local spar and stabbed the manager, was then chased back to his house and shot in the front garden.

Videos doing the rounds from the top window of the neighbours house. Shows him being worked on by ambulance and then taken off.

eggy81

Tzardine wrote: »

Unconfirmed reports that he robbed the local spar and stabbed the manager, was then chased back to his house and shot in the front garden.

Videos doing the rounds from the top window of the neighbours house. Shows him being worked on by ambulance and then taken off.

If he’s stabbed someone in a violent robbery he deserved to be shot IMO. If that hadn’t happened and he’s carrying a knife I. The garden in the midst of some sort of breakdown then questions should be asked.

monkeysnapper

its so sad really ... he threatened staff at a shop with a knife and then did same to uniformed Gardai. And was later shot and died.

RIP

Tpcl20

If he stabbed somebody then he broke the law and deserves to be arrested and tried for violent assault. Are we America now where we shoot people and then decide what they're guilty of?!

ThewhiteJesus

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

Tzardine

Tpcl20 wrote: »

If he stabbed somebody then he broke the law and deserves to be arrested and tried for violent assault. Are we America now where we shoot people and then decide what they're guilty of?!

From what I understand, gardai tried several non-lethal tactics, including tasers. He then tried to attack them with the knife and was shot once.

Seems totally above board to me.

Not saying he deserved a death sentence, but hard to find fault with the cops if that is true.

ThewhiteJesus

do you need to shoot five times,
once in the leg would put anyone down

kingstevii

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

No it doesn't.

Allinall

Perhaps the next scumbag thinking of robbing with a knife will think again.

phily2002

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

do you need to shoot five times,
once in the leg would put anyone down

They won't aim for the legs as more chance of missing and a bullet going stray

Samsonsmasher

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

do you need to shoot five times,
once in the leg would put anyone down

Police and military the world over train to shoot into the torso.

ThewhiteJesus

phily2002 wrote: »

They won't aim for the legs as more chance of missing and a bullet going stray

give over they are trained

whisky_galore

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

do you need to shoot five times,
once in the leg would put anyone down

That would be great if he'd agree to stay still for you.

Tzardine

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

once in the leg would put anyone down

Untrue. Real life is different from the movies or computer games.

Plenty of videos online of people being shot in the legs and they keep coming.

In fact, plenty of videos of people being shot in the torso multiple times and they keep coming too.

Adrenaline is a powerful drug.

Have a look at "police activity" on YouTube to see these videos.

Danzy

Tpcl20 wrote: »

If he stabbed somebody then he broke the law and deserves to be arrested and tried for violent assault. Are we America now where we shoot people and then decide what they're guilty of?!

That doesn't happen there either.

He left them no choice.

Danzy

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

give over they are trained

They are shooting in the real world though.

Key difference.

Samsonsmasher

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

You've never heard of fatal stabbings? The armed officers hqve to protect the public and protect themselves don't they?

MidlanderMan

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

give over they are trained

Nobody is trained to shoot for the legs. It's a TV myth.

Ginger83

I hope the staff in the shop are ok.

ThewhiteJesus

it will be investigated so time will tell, seems too harsh from the little i've read anyway

tayto lover

Sorry to see anyone die.
Sorry for the officer who had to shoot him too.

Knives are scary and make an awful mess. Too many people carrying them and willing to use them. Should be a mandatory sentence for carrying a knife.

Samsonsmasher

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'll speak for everyone here, we love killing here. A fair kill by the Gardai, now there are many more criminals to add to the body count, lets start with people who don't pay tax on their cars.

Nobody loves killing. Do you think the Garda who shot that man today went to work this morning wanting to kill? It's desperately sad, a human life was taken and the family of the dead are going through hell. So is the Garda who will have to live with it for the rest of his life. It didn't have to happen but if it wouldn't have happened at all if the dead man had not armed himself with a knife.

ThewhiteJesus

tayto lover wrote: »

Sorry to see anyone die.
Sorry for the officer who had to shoot him too.

Knives are scary and make an awful mess. Too many people carrying them and willing to use them. Should be a mandatory sentence for carrying a knife.

totally agree, but from what i've read the chap didn't seem in his right mind,
or highly agitated as the IT put it, if he was shot in his garden who was he going to hurt ? Must be more to it

Pkiernan

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

Says someone who has no idea how quickly a knife can cause fatal injuries.

ThewhiteJesus

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Nobody loves killing. Do you think the Garda who shot that man today went to work this morning wanting to kill? It's desperately sad, a human life was taken and the family of the dead are going through hell. So is the Garda who will have to live with it for the rest of his life. It didn't have to happen but if it wouldn't have happened at all if the dead man had not armed himself with a knife.

well if the garda did it unlawfully he'll get prosecuted himself so i hope for his sake there was a stone clad necessity to do it

ThewhiteJesus

Pkiernan wrote: »

Says someone who has no idea how quickly a knife can cause fatal injuries.

I'm an expert in knives i make them.

Odelay

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

Should the guards have borrowed a bread knife from one of the neighbors to make it fair?

ThewhiteJesus

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

do you need to shoot five times,
once in the leg would put anyone down

Much harder to hit someone on the leg. If you miss the leg, that stray bullet could cause damage to someone else. This man was probably shot once and he continued to resist arrest, so they shot him again. Good police work in my book.

Spanish Eyes

I am reading that tazers were used. How in the name of god did he not hit the deck after that, then be cuffed and removed from the scene.

Strange.

tayto lover

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

seems very excessive if he only had a knife

Maybe they should have shot the knife out of his hand like in the cowboy films?

Danzy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am reading that tazers were used. How in the name of god did he not hit the deck after that, then be cuffed and removed from the scene.

Strange.

Not unusual at all.

Tzardine

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am reading that tazers were used. How in the name of god did he not hit the deck after that, then be cuffed and removed from the scene.

Strange.

It is quite common for tazers to be ineffective. Wearing big bulky clothing for example will often make them useless.

ThewhiteJesus

tara2k wrote: »

Much harder to hit someone on the leg. If you miss the leg, that stray bullet could cause damage to someone else. This man was probably shot one and he continued to resist arrest, so they shot him again. Good police work in my book.

i hear you honestly i just find it weird, the garda could have been 100% right for all i know, but it just feels excessive until we hear all the details, i haven't seen anything about him stabbing anyone just threatening and then walking home and getting tasered and then shot 5 times in his front garden

Tzardine

I have just seen a video of the shooting.

Totally justified. He was swinging at the cops with the knife.

Samsonsmasher

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

well if the garda did it unlawfully he'll get prosecuted himself so i hope for his sake there was a stone clad necessity to do it

The guy was armed with a knife and wouldn't put it down so he was shot. 100% justified.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am reading that tazers were used. How in the name of god did he not hit the deck after that, then be cuffed and removed from the scene.

Strange.

Easily done. He was probably wearing a heavy jacket, chunky sweater underneath, t-shirt under that etc

ThewhiteJesus

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe they should have shot the knife out of his hand like in the cowboy films?

that would be impressive to be fair

Tpcl20

Tpcl20 wrote: »

seeing the force with which the stupid gurriers on the Luas throwing bottles were manhandled off it.
.

Well deserved.

Samsonsmasher

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

i hear you honestly i just find it weird, the garda could have been 100% right for all i know, but it just feels excessive until we hear all the details, i haven't seen anything about him stabbing anyone just threatening and then walking home and getting tasered and then shot 5 times in his front garden

The Gardaí should have let him stab somebody and then shot him?

Pkiernan

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I'm an expert in knives i make them.

An "expert" who has no idea how quickly knives can cause fatal injuries.

gctest50

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

totally agree, but from what i've read the chap didn't seem in his right mind,
or highly agitated as the IT put it, if he was shot in his garden who was he going to hurt ? Must be more to it

Well they wouldn't want to have to follow him into the house if he went in and started slashing up the wife n kids and whoever else was in there

Having to follow him into the house will end in a mess

Get all slashed up for what ? A weeks wages ?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe they should have shot the knife out of his hand like in the cowboy films?

Easily done. After all, they are trained to use the gun.

Samsonsmasher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Easily done. After all, they are trained to use the gun.

Police train to shoot into the centre mass - the chest and torso.

ThewhiteJesus

gctest50 wrote: »

Well they wouldn't want to have to follow him into the house if he went in and started slashing up the wife n kids and whoever else was in there

yes fair point

Tzardine

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Police train to shoot into the centre mass - the chest and torso.

For the person that said shoot the legs.

I just saw the video.

He was still standing and swinging the knife at gardai after 4 shots to the body.

The 5th shot took him down.

delly

For anyone interested, the tueller principle explains how quickly a knife wielding attacker can get to you, therefore is a factor in when to administer lethal force.

Captain Lugger

We'll have to see the detail but frankly if a situation has deteriorated enough to get the 'armed bastids' out then he deserved what happened.

Strumms

Tpcl20 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-dies-after-being-shot-by-garda%C3%AD-following-standoff-in-co-dublin-1.4447470

He was wielding a knife in his garden and the gardaí tried to subdue him with non-lethal force before they shot at him five times, hitting him three times and killing him.

His family were in the house at the time but have been brought elsewhere.

A crazy situation with a very unfortunate outcome. Stuff like this happens here rarely enough that it's still shocking to me. I hope this isn't a precedent, especially after seeing the force with which the stupid gurriers on the Luas throwing bottles were manhandled off it.

I know the Gardaí like everyone else are at the end of their tether at the moment, but there's a worrying increase in violent apprehensions of offenders. Fair enough if it's warranted, but that guy literally brought a knife to a gun fight.

A knife is a deadly weapon. They tried to use non lethal force, that wasn’t successful in bringing an end to the dangerous situation...

The responsibility for the man being dead, is on the man himself.

The Gardai need to protect themselves and the family. I’d imagine they gave him every encouragement, support and help to disarm and come peacefully.

Also there must have been a catalyst of sorts to them shooting him, using lethal force, either he posed a threat to the Gardai or he was attempting to go into the house to his family, in either scenario he needed to be stopped, he had a knife so unfortunately only one safe way of doing that....

RoryMac

Tzardine wrote: »

I have just seen a video of the shooting.

Totally justified. He was swinging at the cops with the knife.

Yeah wildly swinging the knife at the guards near him, feel sorry for the guard having to deal with this