Noise sounds like chain rub. Any ideas?

G1032

Hi
Replaced the chain on my bike. I'd do this fairly regularly.
Was just checking indexing while I was at it and noticed what sounds like a chain rubbing off the front derailleur when in the lowest gear (36/28)

R7000 set up. Never an issue like this before. Noise was not there before chain was replaced.

The thing is though that the chain isn't within as asses roar of the front derailleur in this gear combination. It is 100% not rubbing off the front derailleur.

What I've checked/tried:

- Double checked chain length. It's spot on. Not an issue anyway with that gear combo..
- Adjusted B-screw and tried at various distances from the cassette. No noticeable difference no matter where I adjust the B-screw to.
- Adjusted low limit screw on rear derailleur, again checking at different points. No affect on the noise.
- Checked the jockey wheels. No noticeable play really. Seem good.
- Checked chain routing through the derailleur cage. All good.
- Tried with a different wheel. Noise there too. Also a 28T cog.
- Listened very closely and can 100% confirm the noise is coming from the chainring area.
- Pedalled around the driveway and noise the same as when on the bike stand.
- Indexing is spot on right through every combination. Chain runs smooth in all other combinations (didn't bother checking 36/11 or 36/12.). No chain rub in 52/28.

Any ideas what the noise could be and how to fix?? It's not a huge issue. It's bugging me though and I'd like to get it right.

Only think I can think of that I haven't tried is another chain.

Cheers!

cletus

G1032 wrote: »

Hi
Replaced the chain on my bike. I'd do this fairly regularly.
Was just checking indexing while I was at it and noticed what sounds like a chain rubbing off the front derailleur when in the lowest gear (36/28)

R7000 set up. Never an issue like this before. Noise was not there before chain was replaced.

The thing is though that the chain isn't within as asses roar of the front derailleur in this gear combination. It is 100% not rubbing off the front derailleur.

What I've checked/tried:

- Double checked chain length. It's spot on. Not an issue anyway with that gear combo..
- Adjusted B-screw and tried at various distances from the cassette. No noticeable difference no matter where I adjust the B-screw to.
- Adjusted low limit screw on rear derailleur, again checking at different points. No affect on the noise.
- Checked the jockey wheels. No noticeable play really. Seem good.
- Checked chain routing through the derailleur cage. All good.
- Tried with a different wheel. Noise there too. Also a 28T cog.
- Listened very closely and can 100% confirm the noise is coming from the chainring area.
- Pedalled around the driveway and noise the same as when on the bike stand.
- Indexing is spot on right through every combination. Chain runs smooth in all other combinations (didn't bother checking 36/11 or 36/12.). No chain rub in 52/28.

Any ideas what the noise could be and how to fix?? It's not a huge issue. It's bugging me though and I'd like to get it right.

Only think I can think of that I haven't tried is another chain.

Cheers!

Might be a stupid question, but is it the right speed chain

G1032

cletus wrote: »

Might be a stupid question, but is it the right speed chain

It is. It's a SRAM PC-1130 chain. It's the same type as the chain I just replaced.

But........ it's not a Shimano chain and it's a Shimano groupset.

One other thing I haven't checked is it the noise is there in a lowest gear of 36/25.

TheBlaaMan

There is normally a small 'tab' on the metal cage of the RD that acts as a 'guide' for the chain around the lower jockey wheel........any chance that you have routed the chain over, rather than under, it ?

Bambaata

Is if a PF BB that might not be properly seated?

Im having a similar'ish problem hwere i have a massive amount of lateral movement and been reading all i can on what it might be, i reckon mine is a bent crank, have tried all other things and can only come up with this for now. chain sings a few mm on each rotation and id come across the BB as a possible issue in my reading but its not it for me as ive had the same on 3 different bikes with same crank

Wishbone Ash

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

There is normally a small 'tab' on the metal cage of the RD that acts as a 'guide' for the chain around the lower jockey wheel........any chance that you have routed the chain over, rather than under, it ?

If that were the case, wouldn't the noise be there on any gear rather than just the lowest?

Tony04

Intermittent rubbing or constant.
If its intermittent then there is lateral movement in the chainrings so could be bent chainring or something related to the cranks/bb

If its constant might it be that your chainrings are worn i.e there is a fair amount of day light between chaineing and chain

crosstownk

@OP - any chance of posting a video with sound?

G1032

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

There is normally a small 'tab' on the metal cage of the RD that acts as a 'guide' for the chain around the lower jockey wheel........any chance that you have routed the chain over, rather than under, it ?

No. All checked and good!

G1032

Bambaata wrote: »

Is if a PF BB that might not be properly seated?

Im having a similar'ish problem hwere i have a massive amount of lateral movement and been reading all i can on what it might be, i reckon mine is a bent crank, have tried all other things and can only come up with this for now. chain sings a few mm on each rotation and id come across the BB as a possible issue in my reading but its not it for me as ive had the same on 3 different bikes with same crank

BB30. Checked it last night and it's perfect. No play at all. Was replaced a few months ago but I'm not getting any play in it

G1032

Tony04 wrote: »

Intermittent rubbing or constant.
If its intermittent then there is lateral movement in the chainrings so could be bent chainring or something related to the cranks/bb

If its constant might it be that your chainrings are worn i.e there is a fair amount of day light between chaineing and chain

Constant but there is no way the chain rings are worn. Drivetrain cleaned after every wet spin. It's not that old either. Maybe 12 - 13 thousand km. And it's small ring only which isn't used a fraction as much as big ring

G1032

crosstownk wrote: »

@OP - any chance of posting a video with sound?

I'll try get one!

smacl

G1032 wrote: »

It is. It's a SRAM PC-1130 chain. It's the same type as the chain I just replaced.

But........ it's not a Shimano chain and it's a Shimano groupset.

One other thing I haven't checked is it the noise is there in a lowest gear of 36/25.

Have you checked for a stiff link? I had a duff SRAM chain recently where there was a small dent in one of the outer plates. If you pedal slowly and watch the chain passing through the jockey wheel where you've got a very small radius you'll see a small rear derailleur movement as you pass the bad link if this is the case. I sorted it by taking out the bad link and adding an extra quick link. Bit of a hack but works fine.

Other thing to check is that if you've inadvertently used a 10 speed quick link on an 11 speed chain it works fine but is a tiny bit wider and can lead to front mech rub. Also check the quick link is fully opened, I find the 11sp SRAM ones a bugger and need the chain pliers to do it properly.

It could also be too much play on the chain. If the spring on the rear mech is getting weak this can happen as the chain is left too slack. Check that the chain feels tight in big ring / big cog. If there is any slack in this combo, you can remove another link.

In your situation, first thing I'd do is put any other chain on and see if the problem is still there. If it isn't, the problem lies with the chain, otherwise it is the bike. Doing a lot of gravel riding, I go for the cheaper SRAM 1110 chains as none of the chains last that long once they regularly hit mud. I buy two at a time so always have a spare for this reason.

All else fails, new bike....

Wishbone Ash

smacl wrote: »

... Also check the quick link is fully opened, I find the 11sp SRAM ones a bugger and need the chain pliers to do it properly.,,,

I'd imagine that the link would open into place with minimal pressure from pedalling (the OP said he pedalled around the driveway).

G1032

@smacl

I'll do that later ya. Gotta try a different chain.

G1032

crosstownk wrote: »

@OP - any chance of posting a video with sound?

Video 1 - 36/24 - Sounds smooth
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akk2mjjNlxAbgas8Fkz0MyiuGi7fsw?e=5ljqbu

Video 2 - 36/28 - Sounds like chain rubbing off front derailleur but it's not rubbing off it
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akk2mjjNlxAbgas94QGslIxoLL3zMA?e=Wnh4HU

I know the 2nd video might look like the chain is rubbing off the derailleur but it's not. All was smooth as silk until I replaced the chain.

Recap!
I replace chains regularly and don't let them wear down much. Inner ring not worn. Shifting good right across the range. Chain runs smooth in every other gear.

Image attached also showing derailleur alignment from the rear of the bike. Not sure how good the pic is but hanger is aligned well and low limit is set correctly.

I checked for stiff links. Nothing obvious noted.

bronkobilly

G1032 wrote: »

It is. It's a SRAM PC-1130 chain. It's the same type as the chain I just replaced.

But........ it's not a Shimano chain and it's a Shimano groupset.

One other thing I haven't checked is it the noise is there in a lowest gear of 36/25.

shimano chains are slightly smaller in with than sram if its a 10 or 11 speed a shimano 105 would more suitable i guess

G1032

bronkobilly wrote: »

shimano chains are slightly smaller in with than sram if its a 10 or 11 speed a shimano 105 would more suitable i guess

Ya. I think a change of chain is in order but the chain I took off was the same kind as the one I put on. It's just so strange. Will put on a 105 or Ultegra chain I think over the next couple of days and see if it helps.

magicbastarder

bronkobilly wrote: »

shimano chains are slightly smaller in with than sram if its a 10 or 11 speed a shimano 105 would more suitable i guess

you have a source on this? i've never heard it before, and from this article, SRAM deliberately copy shimano's sizing:

When SRAM entered the road groupset market in 2006, it decided to adopt Shimano’s specifications for its chains and cassettes. As a result, the chains and cassettes from the two brands have always been completely interchangeable for any given type of transmission (e.g. 11-speed)

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/mixing-road-groupsets-what-works-together-and-what-doesnt-2/

G1032

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a source on this? i've never heard it before, and from this article, SRAM deliberately copy shimano's sizing:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/mixing-road-groupsets-what-works-together-and-what-doesnt-2/

I think it's correct. Googled PC-1130 chain and it's 5.7mm wide.
New Ultegra chain for 11spd is 5.62mm wide
You're only talking 1/10 of a mm but it's not the width I'd be worried about. The Shimano chain might just run that bit smoother

crosstownk

I hear what sounds like a light rub in the 36x24 video that is far more pronounced in the 36x28 clip.

By all accounts, it does sound like FD chain rub which you're sure it isn't. Very strange.

G1032

Weepsie wrote: »

Definitely sure it's the front? Could it be from the rear at all?

Thought initially it was from the rear but when I listen closely in its positively definitely from the front

G1032

crosstownk wrote: »

I hear what sounds like a light rub in the 36x24 video that is far more pronounced in the 36x28 clip.

By all accounts, it does sound like FD chain rub which you're sure it isn't. Very strange.

Agreed. I noticed that slight rub this evening in the 36/24. Very slight but there nonetheless. And the derailleur is miles from the chain in the 36/24.

Just looking at the pic you uploaded of the mech from above there is an obvious curve in the chain towards the right end of the shot. I've never really looked that closely at mine from that angle to know if thats right or not but if you asked me was that rubbing I'd say if it wasn't it's close.

EDIT: One thing is for sure, nobody could ever accuse you of keeping a dirty poorly maintained bike, it looks immaculate.

crosstownk

Is it possible to 'feel' the rub by lightly putting your finger tip on various suspected (and obviously stationary) components?

Actually you could rule out the rub where I mentioned with a needle nosed pliers and spreading that part of the RD a mil or two maybe?

crosstownk

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually you could rule out the rub where I mentioned with a needle nosed pliers and spreading that part of the RD a mil or two maybe?

Maybe use feeler blades before bending anything....? Most motor factors will supply a set.

G1032

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just looking at the pic you uploaded of the mech from above there is an obvious curve in the chain towards the right end of the shot. I've never really looked that closely at mine from that angle to know if thats right or not but if you asked me was that rubbing I'd say if it wasn't it's close.

EDIT: One thing is for sure, nobody could ever accuse you of keeping a dirty poorly maintained bike, it looks immaculate.

I wonder is that just an optical illusion, so to speak? I'll have a closer look tomorrow

Re the clean bike... Cheers!! I do keep it clean. Wouldn't do so much cleaning during the summer and or dry weather but drive train is cleaned after every or almost every spin in the wet. I suppose it takes 10 minutes or so. Kind of like doing it.

G1032

crosstownk wrote: »

Is it possible to 'feel' the rub by lightly putting your finger tip on various suspected (and obviously stationary) components?

Like the front derailleur you mean? Good idea. I'll try that too..
Think at this stage now I'll put on another chain and see.

Wishbone Ash

Deleted User wrote: »

Just looking at the pic you uploaded of the mech from above there is an obvious curve in the chain towards the right end of the shot....

That was my first thought. The cage looks slightly bent.

magicbastarder

yeah, could be an optical illusion, but the chain does not look centred in the cage as it goes around the tension jockey wheel, it seems to be sitting noticeably closer to the outside of the cage than the inside. that said, that might be entirely normal.

G1032

Thanks folks
Maybe it does need new jockey wheels. They seem ok but have 13k km on them now, a lot of which has been in atrocious weather!!

Hanger or derailleur never got a bang or a crash.

Was out on it today anyway for 90+ minutes and it's not an issue so no major panic to try and resolve. But might be an issue if doing v steep climbs

G1032

Installed an Ultegra chain and the noise went away. Well, went away for 70 odd km!

Took wheel off after spin today because rims were filthy and the noise is back after replacing the wheel. Worse than ever now.

So, time to look at the jockey wheels, but........
Was going to pop into LBS on way home from work on Thursday coming and get the jockey wheels. I'm running R7000 groupset. They have R8000 jockey wheels in stock but I'm reading online they the R8000 pulley wheels aren't compatible with the 105 derailleur?? Can anyone here verify this?

SigmaSports answered a query for a customer and said R8000 wasn't compatible with R7000.
Why is this? Anyone know?

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Shimano/Ultegra-R8000-Tension-and-Guide-Pulley-Set/LO56

Yet this site says R8000 pulley can be used instead of R7000

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/shimano-105-rdr7000-tension-guide-pulley-set-y3f398010/

magicbastarder

i'd say that's an 'err on the side of caution' response from sigma sports.

here's someone else reporting excessive noise with R8000, and there are some suggestions the teeth on the guide pulley are too pronounced?
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/gegy32/ultegra_r8000_noise/

Plastik

Can you post a vid of the RD in action while in those gears?

G1032

Plastik wrote: »

Can you post a vid of the RD in action while in those gears?

I'll try get a video later today.

G1032

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd say that's an 'err on the side of caution' response from sigma sports.

here's someone else reporting excessive noise with R8000, and there are some suggestions the teeth on the guide pulley are too pronounced?
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/gegy32/ultegra_r8000_noise/

Very interesting
The 3rd (I think) post on that thread describes exactly what I experienced yesterday.

I put on a new Ultegra HG701 chain and for the spin after everything was perfect. Quiet, smooth. Perfect.
Roads were filthy and wet so cleaned drive train after I got home and the noise was back again.

The guy in that 3rd post says he also experienced a noise that went away with a new chain and returned once chain was cleaned, albeit on an R8050 groupset.

I've noticed that vibration mentioned in the thread above from time to time. It comes and goes. It doesn't seem to cause an issue any it's more of an annoyance. I might replace gear cable and reindex to see if it makes a difference. I really don't think the jockey wheels are worn. I was just replacing them for want of trying something else.

G1032

Bambaata wrote: »

Is if a PF BB that might not be properly seated?

Im having a similar'ish problem hwere i have a massive amount of lateral movement and been reading all i can on what it might be, i reckon mine is a bent crank, have tried all other things and can only come up with this for now. chain sings a few mm on each rotation and id come across the BB as a possible issue in my reading but its not it for me as ive had the same on 3 different bikes with same crank

Was replacing rear derailleur cable. The front cable also needs to be disconnected in order to replace the rear cable (both routed through a guide under the BB)
Noticed after I loosened the cable retaining bolt on the FD that the nut the bolt goes into was cracked.

I removed the FD altogether as I can't clamp the cable and ordered a new one. Will try source a nut and bolt soon.

Chain noise was still there with the FD off. So I replaced both jockey wheels on the RD. Noise still there

So then this morning I removed the BB. The non drive side bearing is as rough as a bear's @rse. Not sure how that could cause the noise but stranger things have happened. So going to order bearings now and hopefully they'll arrive soon.

07Lapierre

Noisy BB bearings? Can’t be...noises never come from the BB!

G1032

Hmmmmm
Need your expertise again folks please

I removed BB bearings. The non drive side doesn't feel anything as rough when out of the shell as it did when in the shell? Is this normal? How could this be?

Also, they are Enduro bearings (packaged as Rotor).
They'd be these bearings (though bought in LBS at the time they were replaced)
https://tinyurl.com/y6yeen28

Plastik

NDS BB is undersized and compressing the bearing when it's in the shell.

What's the frame, looks like a CAAD12?

G1032

Plastik wrote: »

NDS BB is undersized and compressing the bearing when it's in the shell.

What's the frame, looks like a CAAD12?

It's a CAAD 12

G1032

Plastik wrote: »

NDS BB is undersized and compressing the bearing when it's in the shell.

What's the frame, looks like a CAAD12?

I figured as much
Can I just put back in the bearings or do I order new SKF and put those in?

Plastik

Thought I recognised the colour. You could put the bearings back in but the bigger issue obviously is that the BB isn't to spec and any bearing that you put in that NDS is going to feel or go rough in quick order. It might be worth your while in the long run considering something like a Hambini BB for it.

G1032

Plastik wrote: »

Thought I recognised the colour. You could put the bearings back in but the bigger issue obviously is that the BB isn't to spec and any bearing that you put in that NDS is going to feel or go rough in quick order. It might be worth your while in the long run considering something like a Hambini BB for it.

So I have them back in
I swapped the bearings around. Now the 'rough' bearing feels rough on the DS and the bearing on the NDS seems fine
So could be that it'll get rougher over time or it could be that the tolerance of the actual bearing was off a fraction? Will order new bearings and check out the Hambini BB

G1032

So, as above, I've put the bearings back in the BB and it appears the sound is louder than it was before
There is no FD installed here so that rules out FD rub

(Recap - Sound loudest in 36/28 but also there in 26/24, albeit much less obvious)

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akk2mjjNlxAbgatPEvp3O9LeaeoCNQ?e=dwdwGd

I have new bearings on order which will go in as soon as they arrive.

Here is a video also of the rear derailleur. I removed the derailleur, replaced the jockey wheels with Ultegra ones and verified without a shadow of a doubt that the chain is not rubbing off any part of the RD cage. RD also aligned correctly.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akk2mjjNlxAbgatQDMAs5rSkf2aKZQ?e=RHMizQ

This was all absolutely perfect until the chain was replaced. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Tried different wheels also.

Plastik

Have you had the chainrings off for cleaning, is the 36t on backwards? Was going to suggest it might be rubbing off the 52 but then it would be most prominent in the 11/12t. Does sound like it's from the front alright, and does sound like the chain. RD looks as smooth as can be.

G1032

Plastik wrote: »

Have you had the chainrings off for cleaning, is the 36t on backwards? Was going to suggest it might be rubbing off the 52 but then it would be most prominent in the 11/12t. Does sound like it's from the front alright, and does sound like the chain. RD looks as smooth as can be.

RD is super smooth ya..
Never took the 36 off for any reason before. I have also looked to check if the chain is hitting the 52 when it's in the 36 and that's not happening either.
The only conclusion I can come to now is that somehow or other the chain line is off? But how or what what would happen I don't know.

Actually what i haven't done is try it with a 25T lowest gear. I've tried another wheel but I'm almost sure it also has a 28 lowest..

Tomorrow I'll put on a 12/25 and check and see.