Closure of the Limerick Coronavirus thread

James Bond Junior

This thread has been closed by MarkR. I think the moderation has been totally heavy handed and any attempt at conversation around some of the actual causes of C19 increases in Limerick, is stifled citing "traveller bashing" or other "off topic" yet Covid related discussion.
A thread like this in the current climate is needed badly as it gives local focus to many.

johnnyryan89

Just cause it's covid related doesn't mean it's Limerick related. Agree about the traveller bashing stuff, some like big pink were trying to stir **** but didn't see any mods jumping in when the Northside was getting a bashing when the numbers were high here during the year. Even though we all know who people were referring to when bashing the Northside.

sioda

Im not sure I've posted in it but do read it daily and would like it to stay open.

The traveller discussion yes at times heading the wrong way but to be very honest it's a valid point and Limerick is particularly unique in this situation.

Also this is a discussion forum and tbh it's doing that. I would agree the modding has been heavy but that's the board's way of late and a number of posters in that thread have been around a while and remember the good old days.

At the end of the day if it keeps us discussing Covid it keeps us mindful of it. Just my 2c

banie01

sioda wrote: »

Im not sure I've posted in it but do read it daily and would like it to stay open.

The traveller discussion yes at times heading the wrong way but to be very honest it's a valid point and Limerick is particularly unique in this situation.

Also this is a discussion forum and tbh it's doing that. I would agree the modding has been heavy but that's the board's way of late and a number of posters in that thread have been around a while and remember the good old days.

At the end of the day if it keeps us discussing Covid it keeps us mindful of it. Just my 2c

I agree tbh.
Yes there was deliberate and repeated traveller baiting at times on thread, (reported some of it even)but the last day or so?
Only one comment springs to mind and that was regarding the effect that returning travellers would have on the incidence rate.

That's not victimisation or traveller blaming IMO.
It's simply acknowledgement that the virus is spread via people and the more people move, the more potential spread.
It's particularly relevant to Limerick given that Rathkeale is within the county.

James Bond Junior

I was guilty of traveller bashing myself, I'll be the first to admit but the fact of the matter is the return of people from all over Europe and beyond to a small town in the county is of note and completely relevant to a corona discussion in the county.

Insect Overlord

The entire approach to the moderation of that thread was awful from the beginning.

The parameters for discussion were set far too narrowly, but even then posts seemed to be dealt with in a very arbitrary fashion.

The thread has been described as a "train wreck" by MarkR. I'd say he has a point, but only because of the overly frequent Mod warnings that keep popping up. Multiple general warnings have been issued to the entire forum user-base. It's patronising and distracting. Almost every time a mod has intervened with such a warning, it would have been far more effective to communicate it via PM with the offending parties.

And even at that, most times there was no actual "offence" committed. The Limerick forum should not be a difficult one to mod. Most heated discussions get sorted out between the posters themselves when they're given time to talk things through. There's hardly ever a sign of spamming or shilling. The pedantic approach to the Covid thread has all the appearances of one or two mods just trying to create work for themselves instead of letting adults chat naturally.

Mickeroo

Just moved this thread from Feedback to here as it doesn't pertain to site wide feedback.

James Bond Junior

I agree Insect Overlord. I got an on thread warning in the early days for discussing how things are in my current location even though my point was to compare how things were being done where I am and how it contrasted with Limerick. It was over the top and only moderation appeared to me to be focused only on allowing what the mod wished to be discussed versus an actual conversation and debate.

Insect Overlord

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I agree Insect Overlord. I got an on thread warning in the early days for discussing how things are in my current location even though my point was to compare how things were being done where I am and how it contrasted with Limerick. It was over the top and only moderation appeared to me to be focused only on allowing what the mod wished to be discussed versus an actual conversation and debate.

And as if it's just to prove your point, a new thread has been opened to discuss one very specific part of the whole issue. It has a list of terms and conditions in it, so many as to basically prevent any actual discussion.

I remember a time when one of the guiding principles of the forum was "This is a place for discussion, not a notice-board."

kilburn

Thread should never have been closed, there has to be a place in the Limerick forum for people to discuss Limerick C19 issues.

Real issue was over moderation based on how the Mods wanted the conversation to go, far too many warnings, some very pedantic warnings and bans were handed out.

Rathkeale is a very unique town in County Limerick where the traveller community makes up more than 50% of the population. These people are respected members of our community in Limerick and our neighbours.

Most of the threads on boards start with my neighbour did this, my neighbour did that but if your neighbour is a traveller you get a ban or warning. It is a fact that hundreds of travellers are returning to Limerick from all over Europe and further a field, mentioning that is traveller bashing.

"The if you wouldnt say it in a court, i wouldnt say it here" nonsense in the Limerick forum lately has really killed it and many regulars have stopped posting there.

If you remind someone in a local forum to wear a mask or wash their hands in the local shops i dont see how that is not considered worthy of other posters time and deserving to be deleted by the Mods.

Reminding someone its a viral pnuemonia and not a flu is not worthy of a threat ban as there is no offence there.

banie01

100% agree with those highlighting the issues with the modding on the Limerick forum.

Between certain posters who actually malign "foreign nationals" and take digs at travellers, a small number of repeat offenders who usually escape sanction.
It's usually a thread lock rather than deal with the posters.

There are very reasonable grounds for discussing the annual Rathkeale influx with regard to Covid.
There are also plenty of other things to discuss regarding Covid that are "general" but very pertinent to Limerick.

The handwashing note on the thread for example.
That grew out of a discussion where many posters corrected a poster regarding soap killing Covid.

The posts were all deleted as not relevant to Limerick?!
Had a pm exchange with the mod on foot of that, that led to the bolded handwashing post.

Modding has gone very off kilter in Limerick forum and it really is damaging engagement IMHO.

It's becoming quite unbalanced across many forums, but Limerick in particular is going downhill.

MarkR

I am actually at a loss as to what you want in regard to moderation. It looks like you want a free for all?

• Deleted off topic posts
• Deleted posts heaping blame on travellers for spreading the virus
• Deleted a two way conversation between members on the benefits of handwashing
• Used a bold font to differentiate my posts when I am making a post as a moderator

Which of the above points do you have an issue with? What is your alternative solution?

My posts in the Limerick forum have already been reported, with no action required. Take from that there was no issue with my moderation.

James Bond Junior

MarkR wrote: »

I am actually at a loss as to what you want in regard to moderation. It looks like you want a free for all?

• Deleted off topic posts
• Deleted posts heaping blame on travellers for spreading the virus
• Deleted a two way conversation between members on the benefits of handwashing
• Used a bold font to differentiate my posts when I am making a post as a moderator

Which of the above points do you have an issue with? What is your alternative solution?

My posts in the Limerick forum have already been reported, with no action required. Take from that there was no issue with my moderation.

No Mark. The chance to have a fluid conversation around the matter of C19 in Limerick. The ability to speak about one of the largest towns in LIMERICK and the effect that its inhabitants and visitors have on said town. The chance to discuss a WORLDWIDE virus and how things OUTSIDE of Limerick may actually have a bearing on how things may fair within Limerick. Not a discussion based around a rigid set of rules you decide upon.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Even mentioning the word traveler (in the sense of someone that has traveled, not necessarily the cultural variety) now leads to a 3 week ban. Absolute horse shíte modding of the Limerick forum from both Clareman and MarkR these days, they need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Insect Overlord

I'd assume that anyone who reported your Mod posts did so because they disagree with the way you and Yop have been modding the thread. I doubt anyone would have accused ye of breaching any rules in the Charter. :rolleyes:

To reiterate: ye set the parameters for discussion too narrowly. Yop dealt with posts in an inconsistent and arbitrary manner all summer (including some outrageous red cards for utterly innocuous posts) despite the fact that he hardly ever interacts with the forum outside of mod actions. Ye deleted posts that didn't breach the charter. Ye talked down to regular posters like they were naughty children. And now ye're leaving Clareman carry the weight of it because ye couldn't deal with negative feedback.

When this many regulars tell ye something's wrong (as opposed to a handfull of trouble-makers) ye should probably give them a listen.

banie01

MarkR wrote: »

I am actually at a loss as to what you want in regard to moderation. It looks like you want a free for all?

• Deleted off topic posts
• Deleted posts heaping blame on travellers for spreading the virus
• Deleted a two way conversation between members on the benefits of handwashing
• Used a bold font to differentiate my posts when I am making a post as a moderator

Which of the above points do you have an issue with? What is your alternative solution?

My posts in the Limerick forum have already been reported, with no action required. Take from that there was no issue with my moderation.

I think a few posters have lain out their issues, myself included.
As for your reported posts in the forum not being actioned?
I think 1 of those reports was mine?

It's hardly a vindication of your position and actions when the mod who dealt with that particular report was you.

The issues I have with the moderation pretty much mirror those IO laid out.
As for the bolded posts?
If your referring to my bolded comment?
That was merely shorthand to allow quick identification of the post I was referring to.

sioda

Mark sorry to pick you out on this but the modding of the Limerick forum has gone off the deep end in recent times. Forum bans have been handed out for minor offenses and you looking for citation on opinions come on.

The new Covid thread just banned and snipped a long time and poster for saying that he wouldn't be posting due to the nature of the modding (Claremans in this case) which is a joke.

osarusan

Deal with individual posters, not with threads. Threadban those causing trouble, and leave the thread open.

I don't see any need for forum bans when the issue is clearly limited to one particular thread (well, more than one now as they keep getting closed).

kilburn

What's going on in the forum with bans in the last 24 hrs is just disgraceful abuse of "power"

It seems discussion or comments are now censored.

How someone can be banned for saying a mod banned a mod is a joke.

Boards really needs to get a handle on what's going on in that forum.

Beasty

Apologies there has been no involvement of Admins in the discussion to date (beyond Mickeroo's post noting the forum move)

I'm coming to this fresh, having just seen the current dispute thread on a related issue. I have started a discussion with local mods, but given everything else going on it may be a day or two before I can provide any further commentary here. It is not being overlooked though.

Thanks beastly. This is overdue

I’m a frequent viewer but not not an active poster on the Limerick thread(as I no longer live there) but the modding on the COVID thread is very poor and it’s driving the meaningful contributors away from the forum in general. To give an example please check the actions of moderator YOP over the last few days, storms in out of nowhere and with the tone and actions of a 1950s Christian brother teacher starts wielding their power, almost makes me think that Santa didnt come to him and he has taken his anger out on the posters of the Limerick forum. This mod has been at this all year, really needs to rein it in.

banie01

Another on thread warning issued for racism.
Discussing Pavee Point's discomfort and their duties as an advocate is now potentially racist?

The thread is descending into petty PC nonsense.
Surely Pavee Point raising concerns regarding Rathkeale is a topic worthy of discussion?
The entire premise of the latest warning is on shaky ground.
Are Pavee Point now not to refer to their constituents as Travellers/Pavee or any other nomenclature?
Are we to disregard the entirety of an advocacy groups position when discussing Limerick and Rathkeale and the effect of the annual influx?

Clareman

Ah now banie01 that's being a bit selective in your viewing of the warning, just in case you can't remember the warning, it's

Folks,

You have been warned already,travellers are an ethnic group and labeling a full ethnic group could be considered racist so please stop, if you don't think some of the posts are racist replace traveller with Asian/Black/Indian/Polish/etc and read them again. Its fine to discuss the topic but if you choose to do so you have to obey by the rules so statements like "all of them" will result in bans.

My reasoning behind the warning rather than bans was as 1 of the posts had

I believe practically every traveller that came home knew the advice and ignored it.

which was thanked and followed up by yourself with

That's a fair assessment tbh.

and then another poster followed up with something. This is our third attempt at a COVID thread, all the others have descended into chaos, no problem discussing but as I asked, when ethnic groups/race is brought into it it crosses a line.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I've not been the most active poster around but have been a member since 2005. I generally have been reasonable enough and only had a few minor infractions.

However i do think the above posters have a fair point about the Limerick Covid thread. I have bowed out of that thread and have stated on the thread that I'm done with the Limerick forum as a whole. Maybe I'm getting too old but it's gone to a stage where things are so tight on moderating that people other than me are turned off from posting or engaging at all. Not something you want on a discussion forum.

banie01

Clareman wrote: »

Ah now banie01 that's being a bit selective in your viewing of the warning, just in case you can't remember the warning, it's

Folks,

You have been warned already,travellers are an ethnic group and labeling a full ethnic group could be considered racist so please stop, if you don't think some of the posts are racist replace traveller with Asian/Black/Indian/Polish/etc and read them again. Its fine to discuss the topic but if you choose to do so you have to obey by the rules so statements like "all of them" will result in bans.

My reasoning behind the warning rather than bans was as 1 of the posts had

I believe practically every traveller that came home knew the advice and ignored it.

which was thanked and followed up by yourself with

and then another poster followed up with something. This is our third attempt at a COVID thread, all the others have descended into chaos, no problem discussing but as I asked, when ethnic groups/race is brought into it it crosses a line.

You can't honestly claim selectivity on my part?
And then proceed to selectively quote in the manner you have

Funnily enough in my previous comment on this thread, I was going to make a glib remark regarding capital or bolded "T" because given the use of "traveller" and the amount of people both settled and traveller choosing to travel.
That confusion, a lack of clarity or oversensitivity may well be part of the issue.

There was no need for the warning, it is an overpolicing and frankly patronising.
Particularly as the conversation between myself and Breezy adequately (I feel at least) addressed the particular topic of it being targeted and why Pavee Point mattered.
It also addressed the context of our remarks, which in your selective quoting has been lost.

There is a cohort of posters who all share similar opinions of the direction of the modding on the Covid threads in particular but overall on the Limerick forums.

This isn't a concerted action, there has been no background chat amongst any of the posters on this thread, rather a growing dissatisfaction with the current atmosphere.

Long term posters are highlighting issues and nothing is being done.
Of course, it's boards.ie playground and their rules.
It's up to mods and admins how they'd hope their community will behave and the rules are tools to that end.

It's no longer a community though, their is a tangible air of irritation being given voice on this thread.
It is one that is pointedly ignored, IO's DRP thread is a prime example.

It's rapidly becoming in certain fora, a community in name only and one I find less and less inclined to contribute towards.

osarusan

Clareman wrote: »

Folks,

You have been warned already,travellers are an ethnic group and labeling a full ethnic group could be considered racist so please stop, if you don't think some of the posts are racist replace traveller with Asian/Black/Indian/Polish/etc and read them again. Its fine to discuss the topic but if you choose to do so you have to obey by the rules so statements like "all of them" will result in bans.

My reasoning behind the warning rather than bans was as 1 of the posts had

I believe practically every traveller that came home knew the advice and ignored it.

I think every adult is aware of the risks of travelling home over Christmas (or any other time). It's not like this Pandemic hasn't been the front page news worldwide for the last year, and the new strain hasn't been the main headline for the past month or so. Info on social distancing and restricting travel is absolutely everywhere you look, we're bombarded with it.



To apply your argument and replace the word traveller with some other race/ethnic group, it would end up something like this:

I believe practically every Asian person that came home knew the advice and ignored it.

I believe practically every Polish person that came home knew the advice and ignored it.

I believe practically every Irish person that came home knew the advice and ignored it.


And I'd argue that all three statements are spot on.

James Bond Junior

Yahir Late Ponytail wrote: »

I've not been the most active poster around but have been a member since 2005. I generally have been reasonable enough and only had a few minor infractions.

However i do think the above posters have a fair point about the Limerick Covid thread. I have bowed out of that thread and have stated on the thread that I'm done with the Limerick forum as a whole. Maybe I'm getting too old but it's gone to a stage where things are so tight on moderating that people other than me are turned off from posting or engaging at all. Not something you want on a discussion forum.

Me too. I live abroad and love to check to keep up with what's going at home. It's a dying forum currently. In fact I've been handed infractions for speaking about living abroad and how things are dealt with related to Covid as a comparison.

kilburn

I think the theme here is fairly consistent.

Very unjust infractions, bans and in thread warnings.

A handful of posters appear to be given free reign on what they can say, how they say it and it seems to be ok on how they chase other posters around challenging everything they say.

I was practically chased off the thread through over modding and other posters saying all my posts were "hearsay", curtain twitching, saying what I saw etc. Defend your post, ask these posters to stop bickering so we can keep the thread open and your one of the main "protagonists", it's so frustrating it's unbelievable.

I got a warning and ban for reminding people who were down playing the issue saying it's only a flu and correcting them that it is actually a viral pnuemonia, how is that logical or fair it impacts all Limerick people if we have some users saying it's grand it's a flu and not changing their behaviour.

When I challenged it I was threatened with a forum ban, in no logical man test does that make sense.

Strangely enough the new thread has nothing but what I was posting throughout the pandemic but No one is getting chased around on their posts like I was ?

sioda

Clareman wrote: »

Ah now banie01 that's being a bit selective in your viewing of the warning, just in case you can't remember the warning, it's

Folks,

You have been warned already,travellers are an ethnic group and labeling a full ethnic group could be considered racist so please stop, if you don't think some of the posts are racist replace traveller with Asian/Black/Indian/Polish/etc and read them again. Its fine to discuss the topic but if you choose to do so you have to obey by the rules so statements like "all of them" will result in bans.

My reasoning behind the warning rather than bans was as 1 of the posts had

which was thanked and followed up by yourself with

and then another poster followed up with something. This is our third attempt at a COVID thread, all the others have descended into chaos, no problem discussing but as I asked, when ethnic groups/race is brought into it it crosses a line.

Your finding a racial issue where there isn't one they are not a race. No matter how PC you want to be they are a section of Irish society that's it.

um7y1h83ge06nx

As a suggestion would it be better to have a Limerick Covid-19 thread on the main Covid-19 forum?

I think a thread for Limerick is justified given the seriousness of the topic and by moving it to another forum would allow a fresh start and put some distance between the posters and mods as things have gotten very strained.

I see other Covid-19 related threads on the Limerick forum could be going down the same path too.

Insect Overlord

It's happened before where awkward topics have come up in Regional forums. Sometimes debates come along that are just too complex for volunteer mods to look after in detail.

The issue here is that the mods never held their hands up to explain their position. We'd all understand if the message was "Sorry folks, this is above our payroll. We'll mod it as best we can, but we know that nobody in this forum is an expert. Please don't be dicks to each other."

Instead, from the start, the mods have tried to tie everything to "Keep it relevant to Limerick, OR ELSE." Some of the posted mod warnings have gone through extreme feats of cognitive gymnastics in an effort to prove that posters were posting things that aren't 100% specific to Limerick. That kind of contextual material doesn't break any of the traditional rules. It's not illegal, or immoral, or even simply annoying, and yet it has provoked over the top reactions.

I've been carded and banned for trying to point that out, which is technically fair enough. Back seat modding is a clear charter violation. It just flies in the face of the community spirit that most of us in this thread are looking for.

MarkR

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's happened before where awkward topics have come up in Regional forums. Sometimes debates come along that are just too complex for volunteer mods to look after in detail.

The issue here is that the mods never held their hands up to explain their position. We'd all understand if the message was "Sorry folks, this is above our payroll. We'll mod it as best we can, but we know that nobody in this forum is an expert. Please don't be dicks to each other."

Instead, from the start, the mods have tried to tie everything to "Keep it relevant to Limerick, OR ELSE." Some of the posted mod warnings have gone through extreme feats of cognitive gymnastics in an effort to prove that posters were posting things that aren't 100% specific to Limerick. That kind of contextual material doesn't break any of the traditional rules. It's not illegal, or immoral, or even simply annoying, and yet it has provoked over the top reactions.

I've been carded and banned for trying to point that out, which is technically fair enough. Back seat modding is a clear charter violation. It just flies in the face of the community spirit that most of us in this thread are looking for.

I'm slightly confused. Are you saying you have an issue with moderators of the Limerick forum trying to keep posts specific to Limerick?

Beasty

Insect Overlord threadban lifted