Ireland consumers pay over €17,000 more for a Yaris, than rest of EU

stezie

So I'm interested in new Yaris GR. As a telecommuter, it is a car that I will use for weekend use. To use no more than 5,000 KM per year, so very little environmental impact.

From review of the European websites for Toyota:

Toyota Ireland - Priced from €49,650
Toyota Germany - Priced from €32,363
Toyota France - Priced from €37,600
Toyota Spain - Priced from €32,900
Toyota UK - From £29995 ( €32,855)

SEVENTEEN THOUSAND extra.... Obviously in Irish taxes...

What have we done so wrong to deserve this...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EnoZc1DV3B5X6G6iVnMfcaOQsNGuSt0X/view?usp=sharing

colm_mcm

Have you priced them in Scandinavia yet?

stezie

colm_mcm wrote: »

Have you priced them in Scandinavia yet?

This model currently isn't listed on the Danish or Swedish sites

CiniO

Well it seem pretty common.

I.e Fiat Tipo saloon basic model on fiat.ie starts at €18,688.
Fiat Tipo saloon basic model on fiat.pl (Poland) is offered at 46,900pln (€10,553 at todays exchange rate).

Yes - there is slight difference that basic model offered in Poland is more basic that the one offered in Ireland (lower trim level), but does it justify a difference of over €8k which is basically 80% of Polish price) ???

jmreire

stezie wrote: »

So I'm interested in new Yaris GR. As a telecommuter, it is a car that I will use for weekend use. To use no more than 5,000 KM per year, so very little environmental impact.

From review of the European websites for Toyota:

Toyota Ireland - Priced from €49,650
Toyota Germany - Priced from €32,363
Toyota France - Priced from €37,600
Toyota Spain - Priced from €32,900
Toyota UK - From £29995 ( €32,855)

SEVENTEEN THOUSAND extra.... Obviously in Irish taxes...

What have we done so wrong to deserve this...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EnoZc1DV3B5X6G6iVnMfcaOQsNGuSt0X/view?usp=sharing

Yeah, but you have to bear in mind that included in that €17'000 is the penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove the VRT.....unless that situation has been changed recently????

stezie

jmreire wrote: »

Yeah, but you have to bear in mind that included in that €17'000 is the penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove the VRT.....unless that situation has been changed recently????

That may as well be, it is still all tax at the end of the day.

If its illegal in the EU, and the EU are fining Ireland for the charging of VRT, then the EU supports illegal activity for their own gain.. Why hasn't the EU stepped in and said enough is enough.. If someone was selling drugs, and the fine for selling drugs was less than the profit gained from selling drugs, they wont be allowed to continue, no ifs or buts. It is define in court as being illegal or not.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

jmreire wrote: »

Yeah, but you have to bear in mind that included in that €17'000 is the penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove the VRT.....unless that situation has been changed recently????

There of course is no penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove VRT because VRT is not illegal.

Captcha

say hello to higher income tax without vrt or some other charges introduced.

bazz26

So OP, what's your plan to fight this?

NIMAN

jmreire wrote: »

Yeah, but you have to bear in mind that included in that €17'000 is the penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove the VRT.....unless that situation has been changed recently????

We have never been fined by the eu for vrt.

Other euro countries have an equivalent to vrt as well.

Don't let social media fake news become fact.

CiniO

NIMAN wrote: »

We have never been fined by the eu for vrt.

Other euro countries have an equivalent to vrt as well.

Don't let social media fake news become fact.

Yes, but with exception of Netherland and Denmark this equivalent to vrt is much lower than in Ireland. Also many EU countries don't have such tax at all.

colm_mcm

NIMAN wrote: »

We have never been fined by the eu for vrt.

Other euro countries have an equivalent to vrt as well.

Don't let social media fake news become fact.

The fact is that we sit in the middle in terms of registration taxes.

colm_mcm

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, but with exception of Netherland and Denmark this equivalent to vrt is much lower than in Ireland. Also many EU countries don't have such tax at all.

But isn’t it up to the individual country to figure out it’s own taxation strategy?

All these free houses, rent subsidies and Christmas bonuses for welfare careerists (and genuine cases) don’t pay for themselves.

Has to come from somewhere.

RandRuns

colm_mcm wrote: »

The fact is that we sit in the middle in terms of registration taxes.

Are we? Genuine question, as I had always assumed we were one of the most expensive.

Although it is from all the way back in 2002, this IT article claims "the rates levied on Irish motorists are amongst the most punitive"

So what is the real case, are we one of the highest or somewhere in the middle?

Seth Brundle

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, but with exception of Netherland and Denmark this equivalent to vrt is much lower than in Ireland. Also many EU countries don't have such tax at all.

...but I'm sure that they have other taxes.
Either way, the exchequer needs money each year and VRT fills a decent hole.

jmreire

Evelynn Broad Wheelbarrow wrote: »

There of course is no penalty fine imposed by the EU for failing to remove VRT because VRT is not illegal.

Yes, you are right Evelynn Broad Wheelbarrow.. The EU has commented that although VRT is legal it is totally contrary to the spirit of the single market and has recommended that it be phased out over a 5 to 10 year period'.
I remember reading an article some where that Ireland would be fined for not adhering to the EU rules....seems that I was wrong. Which begs the question of just why the EU introduced a policy removing import duty on cars, then allow the rules to be flouted???

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

The fact is that we sit in the middle in terms of registration taxes.

How is that, if only Netherland and Denmark have more expensive registration taxes, with all remaining 24 EU countries having much lower registration taxes or not having them at all ?

Rrrrrr2

I think this is an extreme example for soem reason? Most cars seems in or around the EU average prices anytime I've looked.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

But isn’t it up to the individual country to figure out it’s own taxation strategy?

All these free houses, rent subsidies and Christmas bonuses for welfare careerists (and genuine cases) don’t pay for themselves.

Has to come from somewhere.

It certainly does.

But surely it's allowed not to agree that having this money taken from motorists is a good idea.

colm_mcm

CiniO wrote: »

It certainly does.

But surely it's allowed not to agree that having this money taken from motorists is a good idea.

When our public transport is far from ideal, it certainly doesn’t seem all that fair.
That said I prefer this to a few more % in my income tax.

FlubberJones

That's why it seems like there are a lot more sh1tty cars on the roads in Ireland than there are in the UK. In particular premium motors they seem to be much more prevalent. Obviously buying a new premium motor with additional tax just puts the average buyer off.

batman_oh

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I think this is an extreme example for soem reason? Most cars seems in or around the EU average prices anytime I've looked.

It's the same for everything. A BMW M2 starts at €84k here and £46k in the UK.

Seth Brundle

colm_mcm wrote: »

When our public transport is far from ideal, it certainly doesn’t seem all that fair.
That said I prefer this to a few more % in my income tax.

Without wanting to get into the merits of it or whatever, there are plans in place to improve all of this via the likes of BusConnects.
However, too many NIMBY politicians and selfish or ill-informed locals are doing their best to stop these plans.

As for the fairness, motoring costs the state a lot more than the contributions paid from motoring. Aside from the cost to maintain the roads, you also have the costs incurred from pollution, mainly in cities. There is ample evidence that traffic congestion is causing long term health damage to both the drivers, other road users and people living there.
If you want things to be fair, then in reality, motor taxes should be a lot higher.

Seth Brundle

batman_oh wrote: »

It's the same for everything. A BMW M2 starts at €84k here and £46k in the UK.

Brexit will bring the UK prices closer to Irish prices.
Also, the manufacturers choose the sale price. If people decided that they would not pay these prices, surely the prices would decrease somewhat?

loyatemu

€50K for a Toyota Yaris?! Is it made of gold?

Henry Ford III

loyatemu wrote: »

€50K for a Toyota Yaris?! Is it made of gold?

It's not an ordinary one.

CiniO

loyatemu wrote: »

€50K for a Toyota Yaris?! Is it made of gold?

Of gold... not.
But looks fun enough to drive:

MrMusician18

While a good chunk of the difference is in tax, the remainder is down to the willingness of Irish consumers to pay more.

Big multinational retailers don't call this place treasure Ireland for nothing.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

wonder if the CAT is protected ...

theteal

loyatemu wrote: »

€50K for a Toyota Yaris?! Is it made of gold?

It's basically the rally car and limited production numbers iirc

If I was at the bin lids off to college stage of life I'd be very interested in one tbh

stezie

loyatemu wrote: »

€50K for a Toyota Yaris?! Is it made of gold?

Its actually a €32,000 car . But in Ireland we pay €17,000 more for the same car.

This Yaris GR is a limited edition performance model.

stezie

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While a good chunk of the difference is in tax, the remainder is down to the willingness of Irish consumers to pay more.

Big multinational retailers don't call this place treasure Ireland for nothing.

Its not "willingness". It is forced. If you live in a rural area a car is a necessity. I live in town. A pretty big town with about 18k population. Nearest supermarket to my house to do a shop is about a 25 minute walk, down a hill. You then need to come back up this hill carrying all your shopping.

There is no Trains. There isn't a regular bus service. There is taxis.

But you want to leave the house more than once a week, so everyone depends on a car. Although I don't need to leave the house for work, an enjoyable car would be nice for the limited yearly mileage. I recognise that its not going to have great MPG, but 100km a week is my average requirement.



The necessity to own a car in Ireland, is heavily taxed. There isn't alternatives to get around. This necessity is obvious with the driving test waiting lists.

MrMusician18

stezie wrote: »

Its not "willingness". It is forced. If you live in a rural area a car is a necessity. I live in town. A pretty big town with about 18k population. Nearest supermarket to my house to do a shop is about a 25 minute walk, down a hill. You then need to come back up this hill carrying all your shopping.

There is no Trains. There isn't a regular bus service. There is taxis.

But you want to leave the house more than once a week, so everyone depends on a car. Although I don't need to leave the house for work, an enjoyable car would be nice for the limited yearly mileage. I recognise that its not going to have great MPG, but 100km a week is my average requirement.



The necessity to own a car in Ireland, is heavily taxed. There isn't alternatives to get around. This necessity is obvious with the driving test waiting lists.

There is a necessity to own a car, but there isn't a necessity to own a yaris. All products are priced to maximize profit, cars included. Toyota feel that at this price will maximize the profit from the volume of cars sold.

galwaytt

Seth Brundle wrote: »

As for the fairness, motoring costs the state a lot more than the contributions paid from motoring. Aside from the cost to maintain the roads, you also have the costs incurred from pollution, mainly in cities. There is ample evidence that traffic congestion is causing long term health damage to both the drivers, other road users and people living there.
If you want things to be fair, then in reality, motor taxes should be a lot higher.

Sorry, but no.

Motoring contributes €6Bn a year to central exchequer: the State is a nett beneficiary, not a subsider, of motoring.

Furthermore, tax on motoring here is actually a tax on work. We all have to get there. We should actually be allowed to claim relief on our motoring-to-work expenses.

bazz26

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There is a necessity to own a car, but there isn't a necessity to own a yaris. All products are priced to maximize profit, cars included. Toyota feel that at this price will maximize the profit from the volume of cars sold.

Well isn't that the basic business model of most companies, maximize their profits? How is what your saying unique to Ireland or Treasure Ireland as you put it? New car pre tax prices in Ireland are some of the lowest in the EU. Toyota don't profit from the taxes the Irish Government slap on cars.

colm_mcm

Aren’t the emissions on that Yaris off the scale?
We know for the last 12 years that emissions tax and VRT are scaled up to discourage people from buying them.

NBar

The importers know the end price so once they factor what they can get out of the selling price they don't give a crap cause they know the Irish will always pay, like we pay through the nose for everything

Rrrrrr2

I remember for curiosity I was comparing some standard supermini prices with the continent - 208, Clio, Polo, Fiesta and here was about bang on and below some on price.
So maybe it’s once you thread into higher emissions our VRT system really kicks in and thrashes prices?

theguzman

Its just the new tax on fugly Japanese designs, making our roads much more allosterically pleasing.

Snotty

VRT is a very fair tax, you want a large expensive new car then you can afford to pay more tax for the privilege, you want a smaller car, you pay less, if you buy a secondhand car the VRT is still keeping the price higher, but only slightly.
People love to complain about it but never state where they would prefer this taxation to come from, unless the spout some rubbish about taxing millionaires or corporation tax.

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

Of gold... not.
But looks fun enough to drive:

Not sure I could justify a 50k outlay for 1 day in the snow every 5-7 years or so.

stezie

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There is a necessity to own a car, but there isn't a necessity to own a yaris. All products are priced to maximize profit, cars included. Toyota feel that at this price will maximize the profit from the volume of cars sold.

Correct. It comes to the point where it isn't financially viable for Toyota to try and sell and support a car sold elsewhere in the EU for €32,000 , for €17,000 more in Ireland. Consumers just wont pay it. If Toyota do try and push that model to be successful in Ireland, they will need to offset their profits on that model to absorb the tax. The losses will be passed across other models for sale.

I have noticed that Toyota and Honda stop selling their high spec'd cars in Ireland way before EU/UK. The Honda NSX for example isn't listed on Honda Ireland's website anymore. The Honda Accord stopped wasn't available in Ireland, two years before UK. While our counter parts in the UK can buy a well spec'd car, we don't have that option. If we do we pay heavily, or we need to sacrifice and buy a smaller model for the same money.

sbsquarepants

theguzman wrote: »

Its just the new tax on fugly Japanese designs, making our roads much more allosterically pleasing.

Sorry to digress but I had to look this word up

Allosterically: - Related to allosterically: gluconeogenesis. (ăl′ə-stĕr′ĭk) adj. Of or relating to the binding of a molecule to an enzyme at a site other than the active site, resulting in modulation of the enzyme's activity as a result of a change in its shape.

I'm guessing this isn't what you meant:D


Aesthetically maybe?

stezie

colm_mcm wrote: »

Aren’t the emissions on that Yaris off the scale?
We know for the last 12 years that emissions tax and VRT are scaled up to discourage people from buying them.

Its not actually that bad for the power it can produce. As stated earlier, if it is expensive to run, I will be taxed on my additional fuel used, which has carbon tax included.

But this car wont be used for doing 20k miles a year, or spend hours every day in stop and go traffic.

stezie

Snotty wrote: »

VRT is a very fair tax, you want a large expensive new car then you can afford to pay more tax for the privilege, you want a smaller car, you pay less, if you buy a secondhand car the VRT is still keeping the price higher, but only slightly.
People love to complain about it but never state where they would prefer this taxation to come from, unless the spout some rubbish about taxing millionaires or corporation tax.

The Yaris is about as small as you can get..

You are pretty deluded buddy.. I'd love to know how you think €17,000 extra for a €32,000 car is only "slightly" higher. You should do a maths class and work out the percentages....

People need to buy 2nd hand cars in Ireland. You have requirements for a car to support your family. Say a Ford Galaxy with the additional seats. Alot of families aren't as flush with cash as you would imagine. So they just cant spend the money on a new one, like you would think.

They need to make a compromise and buy a 2nd hand one from the UK. But what exactly is being compromised? A 2nd hand car with No warranty, old tyres and brakes, etc to move their precious family around in... If the money isn't there then compromises have to be made.

stezie

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not sure I could justify a 50k outlay for 1 day in the snow every 5-7 years or so.

€50k, no.. but €32k.. maybe...

colm_mcm

stezie wrote: »

Correct. It comes to the point where it isn't financially viable for Toyota to try and sell and support a car sold elsewhere in the EU for €32,000 , for €17,000 more in Ireland. Consumers just wont pay it. If Toyota do try and push that model to be successful in Ireland, they will need to offset their profits on that model to absorb the tax. The losses will be passed across other models for

Toyota Ireland have zero interest in selling these. They’re not a volume model and this isn’t even a halo car that would encourage Doris to buy a 1.0 Yaris on the back of liking the GR.
The car is completely at odds with their environmentally friendly ‘self charging’ marketing too.

ednwireland

stezie wrote: »

The Yaris is about as small as you can get..

specifications from toyota ireland Fuel efficiency (l/100km) 8.9* :eek:

stezie

ednwireland wrote: »

specifications from toyota ireland Fuel efficiency (l/100km) 8.9* :eek:

What is so scary about that? that is about 9 litres of fuel a week I would need.. I can manage that..

Henry Ford III

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While a good chunk of the difference is in tax, the remainder is down to the willingness of Irish consumers to pay more.

Big multinational retailers don't call this place treasure Ireland for nothing.

The pre tax price is very similar and in some cases less than other markets.

stezie

colm_mcm wrote: »

The car is completely at odds with their environmentally friendly ‘self charging’ marketing too.

Which is another scam... taking the C-HR as an example..

non hybrid, 1.2 litre engine.
Hybrid 1.8 litre engine..

If hybrid technology was so awesome why does it need a bigger, more powerful, more environmentally damaging engine?

And you still have to pay for an electrical system, and an Internal combustion Engine system, along with the maintenance of those two.. It doesn't make sense to me.