cost of making a will

JCJCJC

Claw Hammer wrote: »

On intestacy a grant of administration must be applied for through the courts ....go

No, that’s not correct. The vast majority of grants, testate or intestate, are issued administratively through the Probate office in Dublin or District Probate Registries in some counties. The Revenue side of it has gone online since last September. Probate fees are still payable to the Probate office even if you go the diy route. All the information is on courts.ie

JCJCJC

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Solicitors fees will be taken from your estate and there is no way around this, but your administrators are free to choose any solicitor from the cheapest to the most expensive in the country. They don't necessarily have to go with whoever you made your will with.

The general starting point is a percentage of the gross estate plus VAT and outlays. 4% would be top dollar. The bigger the estate, the more of a reduction should be negotiable, because above a certain point, it’s the same amount of work.
Before you pee on lawyers, take account of the other issues that arise - does the deceased have good marketable registered title to their real estate, are the addresses of all beneficiaries available, do they all have Irish PPS numbers, is the lawyer doing the CAT returns or is there an accountant needed, etc. If the lawyer has to sort out all that stuff, they have to be paid for the time it takes.

mrcheez

would be interested to know roughly what cost differences are between will vs no will, assuming the wording of the will is line for line what is in rules on intestacy.

We talking a couple of hundred, or would it be thousands in the difference?

Say the estate is 1 million - I don't have an estate worth 1 million .. this is just for arguments sake

JCJCJC

mrcheez wrote: »

would be interested to know roughly what cost differences are between will vs no will, assuming the wording of the will is line for line what is in rules on intestacy.

We talking a couple of hundred, or would it be thousands in the difference?

Say the estate is 1 million - I don't have an estate worth 1 million .. this is just for arguments sake

To many variables to answer that. If you have €1m and only one brother to leave it to, there is only one tax return to be made - quick and easy. If you have sixteen brothers spread over the five continents, there is obviously a lot more work involved and there may be no tax payable but that must be fully checked out.

mrcheez

JCJCJC wrote: »

To many variables to answer that. If you have €1m and only one brother to leave it to, there is only one tax return to be made - quick and easy. If you have sixteen brothers spread over the five continents, there is obviously a lot more work involved and there may be no tax payable but that must be fully checked out.

Say it goes to the parents, and they split it as they need.

That's how the intestacy rules go afaik?

Say I got knocked off my bike tomorrow. Parents still alive.

PhilOssophy

JCJCJC wrote: »

The general starting point is a percentage of the gross estate plus VAT and outlays. 4% would be top dollar. The bigger the estate, the more of a reduction should be negotiable, because above a certain point, it’s the same amount of work.
Before you pee on lawyers, take account of the other issues that arise - does the deceased have good marketable registered title to their real estate, are the addresses of all beneficiaries available, do they all have Irish PPS numbers, is the lawyer doing the CAT returns or is there an accountant needed, etc. If the lawyer has to sort out all that stuff, they have to be paid for the time it takes.

I was 100% not peeing on lawyers, they like every other professional service are fully entitled to charge for their time and I have absolutely no problem with that. I know full well that there is a lot of time and effort goes into the administration of estates.

I was actually making the opposite point to how you construed it! My point to the OP was that his administrators aren't obliged to stay with the solicitor who wrote the will if they think it is too expensive. That was all.

JCJCJC

mrcheez wrote: »

Say it goes to the parents, and they split it as they need.

That's how the intestacy rules go afaik?

Say I got knocked off my bike tomorrow. Parents still alive.

'as they need' is too loose. Under intestacy they get 50:50. If you get knocked off your bike tomorrow or even today or next week and go into a coma for the next twenty years with a half-inch pipe stuck up your willy with a jubilee clip to hold it there you'll be sorry you didn't make a will...

JCJCJC

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I was 100% not peeing on lawyers, they like every other professional service are fully entitled to charge for their time and I have absolutely no problem with that. I know full well that there is a lot of time and effort goes into the administration of estates.

I was actually making the opposite point to how you construed it! My point to the OP was that his administrators aren't obliged to stay with the solicitor who wrote the will if they think it is too expensive. That was all.

Construed - a nice lawyerly word.Your point is absolutely correct, but often the solicitor making the will is appointed as either the sole or one of the executors, and also some solicitors who don't charge for making a will do so on the basis that they will be instructed in the administration of the estate.

Claw Hammer

mrcheez wrote: »

Say it goes to the parents, and they split it as they need.

That's how the intestacy rules go afaik?

Say I got knocked off my bike tomorrow. Parents still alive.

The parents could be taxed on it and it could be taxed again if they make gifts with it. A lot would depend on the cumulative value of inheritances received by your parents.
Equally, your parents might not give anything at all to your siblings or their children. They could leave it to the parish priest to say masses for the repose of their souls.

mrcheez

JCJCJC wrote: »

'as they need' is too loose. Under intestacy they get 50:50. If you get knocked off your bike tomorrow or even today or next week and go into a coma for the next twenty years with a half-inch pipe stuck up your willy with a jubilee clip to hold it there you'll be sorry you didn't make a will...

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The parents could be taxed on it and it could be taxed again if they make gifts with it. A lot would depend on the cumulative value of inheritances received by your parents.
Equally, your parents might not give anything at all to your siblings or their children. They could leave it to the parish priest to say masses for the repose of their souls.

ok but these answers don't address how it would be different if there was a will with the intestacy rules in it, rather than the default intestacy setup.

Legal fees with will = taken out of estate
Legal fees without will = taken out of estate

The way the estate would be split up or taxed appears to be identical, and fees appears to be similar?

Claw Hammer

mrcheez wrote: »

ok but these answers don't address how it would be different if there was a will with the intestacy rules in it, rather than the default intestacy setup.

Legal fees with will = taken out of estate
Legal fees without will = taken out of estate

The way the estate would be split up or taxed appears to be identical, and fees appears to be similar?

A grant of administration has to be applied for by the next of kin, who may be reluctant. Much easier to have a willing executor, or two. If you make a will, you can structure things in a tax efficient way.

PhilOssophy

JCJCJC wrote: »

Construed - a nice lawyerly word.Your point is absolutely correct, but often the solicitor making the will is appointed as either the sole or one of the executors, and also some solicitors who don't charge for making a will do so on the basis that they will be instructed in the administration of the estate.

I happen to have a family member who is one so I hear it quite a bit!

Anyway, I have added all I want to the discussion OP, good luck with whatever you do!

JCJCJC

mrcheez wrote: »

ok but these answers don't address how it would be different if there was a will with the intestacy rules in it, rather than the default intestacy setup.

Legal fees with will = taken out of estate
Legal fees without will = taken out of estate

The way the estate would be split up or taxed appears to be identical, and fees appears to be similar?

You're missing the point. first you said the estate would be split according to need, I told you that won't happen, it's 50:50. Taxation depends on CAT thresholds and I've given you the link. If the bus doesn't kill you fully dead, your parents could pre-decease you and you would be past the point of changing your mind. If another sibling did the same thing as you're doing, your parents could exceed their thresholds and all your money would go to the Revenue, well, 33% of it. Now will you ffs go and see your own solicitor and break his/her heart.

mrcheez

JCJCJC wrote: »

You're missing the point. first you said the estate would be split according to need, I told you that won't happen, it's 50:50. Taxation depends on CAT thresholds and I've given you the link. If the bus doesn't kill you fully dead, your parents could pre-decease you and you would be past the point of changing your mind. If another sibling did the same thing as you're doing, your parents could exceed their thresholds and all your money would go to the Revenue, well, 33% of it. Now will you ffs go and see your own solicitor and break his/her heart.

lol

I think you're missing the point of my question but I'm enjoying how stressed you appear to be getting over it...the other poster appeared to understand my query.

The earlier info was handy though

.

mrcheez

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A grant of administration has to be applied for by the next of kin, who may be reluctant. Much easier to have a willing executor, or two. If you make a will, you can structure things in a tax efficient way.

grand

rogber

Costs have gone up in this field too