The housing "crisis" is over

GazzaL

Great to see huge numbers of new-build council houses being handed out. Top quality, A-rated homes worth anything up to €500k that look fantastic with all the nearly new BMWs and Mercs parked outside.

Fair play to all the lads that worked hard to build them. Those lads are heroes, working long hours, knowing that for every €1 they earn at the higher rate of tax, the Government is taking (approx.) a €1 out of their pocket to fund these free houses, the likes of which they would struggle to get a mortgage for.

I'll get my coat. Should this be posted in Finance?

Tell us what political party you follow? They might just be that wee bit embarrassed.

Boggles

Must be fúcking exhausting to be constantly outraged.

Dozyart

GazzaL wrote: »

Great to see huge numbers of new-build council houses being handed out. Top quality, A-rated homes worth anything up to €500k that look fantastic with all the nearly new BMWs and Mercs parked outside.

Fair play to all the lads that worked hard to build them. Those lads are heroes, working long hours, knowing that for every €1 they earn at the higher rate of tax, the Government is taking (approx.) a €1 out of their pocket to fund these free houses, the likes of which they would struggle to get a mortgage for.

Cry harder,might change something!

GazzaL

Dozyart wrote: »

Cry harder,might change something!

Who's crying m8? This thread is a celebration of both the people getting free houses, and the people who break their balls building them while not having a hope in hell of affording to buy a house of a similar standard on the private market.

fergus1001

GazzaL wrote:

Great to see huge numbers of new-build council houses being handed out. Top quality, A-rated homes worth anything up to €500k that look fantastic with all the nearly new BMWs and Mercs parked outside.

Eoin Murphy is that you ?

More of a Rave so. Too poor even for AH standards really.

Darc19

Another option would be to increase the wages of many mundane jobs so that these people can afford a roof over their heads.

But that would see substantial inflation and even higher taxes.

But I would limit any social housing to 3 beds and 100sqm. A good basic standard.

pjohnson

Ooooh another welfare thread.

Original.


Same again next week?

James Brown

GazzaL wrote: »

Who's crying m8? This thread is a celebration of both the people getting free houses, and the people who break their balls building them while not having a hope in hell of affording to buy a house of a similar standard on the private market.

Gone be the days they were put up in D4 luxury apartments wha? :rolleyes:

GazzaL

Darc19 wrote: »

Another option would be to increase the wages of many mundane jobs so that these people can afford a roof over their heads.

But that would see substantial inflation and even higher taxes.

But I would limit any social housing to 3 beds and 100sqm. A good basic standard.

You're being very stingy. There's some lovely new 4 bed, 160 sq m council houses with walk-in robes, ensuites and underfloor heating being built at the moment.

There'll be significant inflation next year, completely unrelated to wages and social housing.

Spanish Eyes

There never was a housing crisis, there was an entitlement crisis pushed to death by the Lefties in the meedja.

suicide_circus

People might take crisis a little more seriously if you didnt get 2 refusals while holing out for a nicer gaff.

Atlantic Dawn

Define 'nearly new BMW or Merc'?

boardise

GazzaL wrote: »

You're being very stingy. There's some lovely new 4 bed, 160 sq m council houses with walk-in robes, ensuites and underfloor heating being built at the moment.

There'll be significant inflation next year, completely unrelated to wages and social housing.

What ...no double garage ?

GazzaL

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Define 'nearly new BMW or Merc'?

3-5 years old. If they don't have one of them, theres a good chance they have a 201 or 202 hatchback.

GazzaL

boardise wrote: »

What ...no double garage ?

Unfortunately not, just spaces for 2-3 cars.

Samuel T. Cogley

GazzaL wrote: »

Fair play to all the lads that worked hard to build them. Those lads are heroes, working long hours, knowing that for every €1 they earn at the higher rate of tax, the Government is taking (approx.) a €1 out of their pocket to fund these free houses, the likes of which they would struggle to get a mortgage for.

I'm not sure thats how the higher tax bracket works.

Coybig_

There is a crisis insofar as the people who most deserve housing - as in the people who go out and work, are pushed to live huge distances away from their workplace due to lack of availability and high prices. These same people struggle to save for mortgages due to extortionate rent costs, which are propogated by the HAP system and local authorities basically competing in the private rental market.

We know that most social housing applicants are on the dole because of the income limits required to be housed. 2 people on minimum wage 40 hour week jobs have you over the income limit in all (or nearly all bar Dublin, would have to check figures) local authorities.

The answer is absolutely not to build more social housing. We don't need any more scroungers than there already are, or to be encouraging that sort of behaviour. We should be building nice affordable housing as a priority for the people on the border between lower and middle class.

Homelessness has turned into a scam. People present into local authorities as homeless because they believe it will fast track their "free house". People turn up saying that they have moved out of Mammies house and are now homeless. What a laugh. Worst case scenario, if there are no substance abuse issues, they get a hotel for a while and get found a place to rent with the HAP paid.

We have an insane amount of foreign applicants for social housing - to the point where it is close to 40% non Irish applicants in certain areas. You wouldn't see it anywhere but here, been taken for an absolute ride.

GazzaL

Coybig_ wrote: »

There is a crisis insofar as the people who most deserve housing - as in the people who go out and work, are pushed to live huge distances away from their workplace due to lack of availability and high prices. These same people struggle to save for mortgages due to extortionate rent costs, which are propogated by the HAP system and local authorities basically competing in the private rental market.

We know that most social housing applicants are on the dole because of the income limits required to be housed. 2 people on minimum wage 40 hour week jobs have you over the income limit in all (or nearly all bar Dublin, would have to check figures) local authorities.

The answer is absolutely not to build more social housing. We don't need any more scroungers than there already are, or to be encouraging that sort of behaviour. We should be building nice affordable housing as a priority for the people on the border between lower and middle class.

Homelessness has turned into a scam. People present into local authorities as homeless because they believe it will fast track their "free house". People turn up saying that they have moved out of Mammies house and are now homeless. What a laugh. Worst case scenario, if there are no substance abuse issues, they get a hotel for a while and get found a place to rent with the HAP paid.

We have an insane amount of foreign applicants for social housing - to the point where it is close to 40% non Irish applicants in certain areas. You wouldn't see it anywhere but here, been taken for an absolute ride.

There are young couples where both people are working to pay mortgages on houses which aren't worth as much as nearby council houses that are being given to people who haven't worked a day in their lives.

Jinglejangle69

Coybig_ wrote: »

There is a crisis insofar as the people who most deserve housing - as in the people who go out and work, are pushed to live huge distances away from their workplace due to lack of availability and high prices. These same people struggle to save for mortgages due to extortionate rent costs, which are propogated by the HAP system and local authorities basically competing in the private rental market.

We know that most social housing applicants are on the dole because of the income limits required to be housed. 2 people on minimum wage 40 hour week jobs have you over the income limit in all (or nearly all bar Dublin, would have to check figures) local authorities.

The answer is absolutely not to build more social housing. We don't need any more scroungers than there already are, or to be encouraging that sort of behaviour. We should be building nice affordable housing as a priority for the people on the border between lower and middle class.

Homelessness has turned into a scam. People present into local authorities as homeless because they believe it will fast track their "free house". People turn up saying that they have moved out of Mammies house and are now homeless. What a laugh. Worst case scenario, if there are no substance abuse issues, they get a hotel for a while and get found a place to rent with the HAP paid.

We have an insane amount of foreign applicants for social housing - to the point where it is close to 40% non Irish applicants in certain areas. You wouldn't see it anywhere but here, been taken for an absolute ride.

Come to Ireland.

Work legit for a while in a minimum wage job.

Go on the housing list.

Bingo!!

Atlantic Dawn

GazzaL wrote: »

3-5 years old. If they don't have one of them, theres a good chance they have a 201 or 202 hatchback.

But do they own it outright?

Kivaro

There are 3 main tiers in Irish society.
The first one is the elite or the untouchables, who are net gainers from the so-called housing crisis; in fact they help to propagate it.
The third tier are those who live in free or almost-free housing, which is just one of the many "entitlements" for those who live that lifestyle. Because it is a lifestyle to those who can work, but won't. There are groups of deserving people e.g. carers, those on disability, and pensioners who do not fall into this category and deservedly get State assistance.
The second tier represents the majority of the people of Ireland. They are the ones who are busting their asses scraping out a living in order to pay the exorbitant rents for sub-standard apartments and houses or pay among the highest mortgage rates in Europe.

We can guess the tier of those who mock the poster of the original post.
It is an unfair system for the majority, and it is no wonder that they are angry about it. It is such a pity that they have no real voice in this country.

Spanish Eyes

A bit of transparency would be good, like stats regarding those trying to access Social Housing now.

Are stats available does anyone know? You know, age, income, incomers, refugees, those kicked out separated, in violent relationships, overcrowding and all the rest of it. I dunno. Wish there was, as am paying for this along with my own gaff.

Spanish Eyes

Kivaro wrote: »

There are 3 main tiers in Irish society.
The first one is the elite or the untouchables, who are net gainers from the so-called housing crisis; in fact they help to propagate it.
The third tier are those who live in free or almost-free housing, which is just one of the many "entitlements" for those who live that lifestyle. Because it is a lifestyle to those who can work, but won't. There are groups of deserving people e.g. carers, those on disability, and pensioners who do not fall into this category and deservedly get State assistance.
The second tier represents the majority of the people of Ireland. They are the ones who are busting their asses scraping out a living in order to pay the exorbitant rents for sub-standard apartments and houses or pay among the highest mortgage rates in Europe.

We can guess the tier of those who mock the poster of the original post.
It is an unfair system for the majority, and it is no wonder that they are angry about it. It is such a pity that they have no real voice in this country.

People who pay for everything are muzzled. That is the reality now.

fergus1001

Spanish Eyes wrote:

There never was a housing crisis, there was an entitlement crisis pushed to death by the Lefties in the meedja.

and may I ask if you own a house ?

Spanish Eyes

fergus1001 wrote: »

and may I ask if you own a house ?

Do you? And did you work to fund your deposit, and pay all the fees and pay a hefty mortgage and so on. Back at ya.

For the record, I am happy that people who need it will be housed, but not in 500k homes. Nope. There are alternatives.

Idbatterim

Dont bring up this issue OP, it shouldn't be discussed.... just live in a kip or commute for hours, to pay for someone else luxury and top location...

fergus1001

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Do you? And did you work to fund your deposit, and pay all the fees and pay a hefty mortgage and so on. Back at ya.

I am currently seeking planning permission for a house have a deposit saved ect ect so now I ask you the same

SEPT 23 1989

A roof over your head and an education are the basics of a civilised society

punisher5112

I think a better system should be in place and this business of having to be living next door to family etc is ridiculous.... If you can't buy and are actually getting looked after then you should be housed where it's the best bang for the buck as they say.....


Ghost estates and apartment blocks etc sold off for buttons which were snapped up, renting out all these for an absolute mint....

Just because you are living in Dublin and are going to be housed, why should you be housed in Dublin?

I've had to move an hour's drive away and commute to work, no choice, it was continue to rent or buy where I could afford, how is someone not working and not contributing at all then housed in a major city with everything on their doorstep.

I don't accept the bleeding hearts etc asthee is nothing stopping them from using public transport which many have for free anyway and they could be put close to anywhere on this small island.

fergus1001

Spanish Eyes wrote:

For the record, I am happy that people who need it will be housed, but not in 500k homes. Nope. There are alternatives.

the reason people are being housed in expensive homes is because the regulations on house building minimum size ect is gone bananas

the problem I have is that if you are on a social housing list then you should not have the right to be placed only in their own community, plenty of houses in leitrim that are equally as good but dont cost as much

Kivaro

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A roof over your head and an education are the basics of a civilised society

This is not a hypothetical question, but what if you are a Turkish Kurd arriving from Canada after working in an airport in Calgary for a number of years, and then, comparatively quickly, getting a €3/4 million social housing apartment in a ritzy part of Dublin. Does that sound fair to your friends and family who are breaking their backs working trying to eke out an existence in this country? Is that being civilised to them?

Now multiply that by many tens of thousands who receive free housing and who are not deserving of it. Free = paid for by the people who work every day.

Coybig_

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A roof over your head and an education are the basics of a civilised society

Why should those who rely on the taxes of others to pay for their lifestyle, housing, income, healthcare and everything else - receive houses in more convenient and attractive areas than those who pay the tax in this country? Why should they have access to a better standard of housing than many others who are working regularly?

It's flat out wrong and an absolute disgrace that this carry on is allowed in this country. Priority should be given to those who contribute.

You see this nonsense right across the board. The "Christmas bonus" for example. What a crock of ****e that is. If it absolutely must be handed out, it should only be given to people who have been on welfare for less than 12 months. No lifetime scroungers should be getting a bloody bonus for bleeding the states finances dry.

Childrens allowance, should be a tax credit after child number 2. No more Jacinta having 5 children that she can't afford while on the dole. No. You don't get to pop out sprogs at will if you can't pay for them.

We need to move a lot of payments into the tax credit system to start encouraging work and stop encouraging lifetime wasters.

Wanderer78

GazzaL wrote:

Great to see huge numbers of new-build council houses being handed out. Top quality, A-rated homes worth anything up to €500k that look fantastic with all the nearly new BMWs and Mercs parked outside.

Bmers and mercs are so last century now, we get free top of the range teslas now, and free power of course!

GazzaL

Coybig_ wrote: »

Why should those who rely on the taxes of others to pay for their lifestyle, housing, income, healthcare and everything else - receive houses in more convenient and attractive areas than those who pay the tax in this country? Why should they have access to a better standard of housing than many others who are working regularly?

It's flat out wrong and an absolute disgrace that this carry on is allowed in this country. Priority should be given to those who contribute.

You see this nonsense right across the board. The "Christmas bonus" for example. What a crock of ****e that is. If it absolutely must be handed out, it should only be given to people who have been on welfare for less than 12 months. No lifetime scroungers should be getting a bloody bonus for bleeding the states finances dry.

Childrens allowance, should be a tax credit after child number 2. No more Jacinta having 5 children that she can't afford while on the dole. No. You don't get to pop out sprogs at will if you can't pay for them.

We need to move a lot of payments into the tax credit system to start encouraging work and stop encouraging lifetime wasters.

The Christmas bonus is a complete joke. There's a colossal amount of people who've worked all their lives and never received a Christmas bonus, the only bonus they get is that they have a job to go back to in January, yet the bleeding heart brigade would cry blue murder about how unfair life is if they don't get extra free cash at Christmas. It's daylight robbery.

As a country, we often benchmark against our nearest neighbour, in everything but social welfare. In the UK, unemployed under 25s get £58.90 per week and over 25s get £74.35. In Ireland, everyone apart from under 25s living with mammy and daddy get €203 per week, plus a Christmas bonus.

Wanderer78

GazzaL wrote: »

The Christmas bonus is a complete joke. There's a colossal amount of people who've worked all their lives and never received a Christmas bonus, the only bonus they get is that they have a job to go back to in January, yet the bleeding heart brigade would cry blue murder about how unfair life is if they don't get extra free cash at Christmas. It's daylight robbery.

As a country, we often benchmark against our nearest neighbour, in everything but social welfare. In the UK, unemployed under 25s get £58.90 per week and over 25s get £74.35. In Ireland, everyone apart from under 25s living with mammy and daddy get €203 per week, plus a Christmas bonus.

has hardly lead to their current situation, has it???

lalababa

Have a look at the architect on irishvernacular.com who worked out, designed and built a very simple 3bed house for c.25k. An A/B rated BER mind! We are being sold a pup re the cost of materials and construction. A one size fits all ****show.
But sure till be grand.
Did ye see the talking heads on primetime amazed and confounded at the tenants living six to a small room in Dublin and paying 300/month! "how can people live like this??" "How's this happening??" "how can they not afford something better??" "why aren't they earning 50k "etc.....

Idbatterim

No doubt the morons in rte were championing the abolishment of bedsits too! Like you you say, if they only want to provide rip off housing, please provide several hundred thousand extra high paying jobs to go with it...

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

has hardly lead to their current situation, has it???

Im sure it has, way better infrastructure. Not a pisstake marginal rate of tax, better health service etc ... assuming relative lower national debt too! They also have a larger percentage of elderly and a large military and defence spend. What can we brag about here? World class welfare to keep margaret cash and co from emigrating? While doctors, nurses, trades people etc leave due to rip off housing and a scandalous marginal tax rate to fund the legions of waste and wasters in this country!

Listen at least we are wealthy enough to siphon off billions into the bookies, pubs, fast food, online shopping etc!

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sute it has, way better infrastructure. Not a pisstake marginal rate of tax, better health service etc ... assuming relative lower national debt too!

Listen at least we are wealthy enough to siphon off billions into the bookies, pubs, fast food, online shopping etc!

once again, public debt has caused far less serious and far less frequent economic crashes, as 08 showed us yet again, private debt is the far more dangerous of the two

Eric Cartman

Idbatterim wrote: »

No doubt the morons in rte were championing the abolishment of bedsits too! Like you you say, if they only want to provide rip off housing, please provide several hundred thousand extra high paying jobs to go with it...

Abolish bedsits, landlords cant decline hap, developments have to give over 10% to the social , cluid buys up houses and forces taxpayers to live next to those who in general contribute nothing

The media : “but why are they building so many hotels and co-living spaces”
Maybe because those are the only things exempt from the above madness..

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Abolish bedsits, landlords cant decline hap, developments have to give over 10% to the social , cluid buys up houses and forces taxpayers to live next to those who in general contribute nothing

The media : “but why are they building so many hotels and co-living spaces”
Maybe because those are the only things exempt from the above madness..

As housing becomes more and kore expemsibe, more people will question the insanity of tge situation here, a minoroty of us have for years!

One documentary on the scandalous welfare state, free housing, medical cards and its abuse, you would have people singing a different tune here. But you wont get it from amy spineless irish outlet...

Ive an idea, stop sorcha from ucd getting a deposit bailout from parents, she and her liberal " arent the poor great aul fellas" would change then! Go live with the consequences of rip off property like many of us have too.

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

As housing becomes more and kore expemsibe, more people will question the insanity of tge situation here, a minoroty of us have for years!

One documentary on the scandalous welfare state, free housing, medical cards and its abuse, you would have people singing a different tune here. But you wont get it from amy spineless irish outlet...

once again, you ll find one of the main reasons for the rapid rise in the price of housing has in fact been the rapid increase in the availability of credit towards developers and buyers

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, you ll find one of the main reasons for the rapid rise in the price of housing has in fact been the rapid increase in the availability of credit towards developers and buyers

No credit increase towards buyers as far as i am aware ... and i agree with this stance. Prices will simy rise if you offer more money to peoole, looking for a most basic human need and particularly in this banana republic housing market and the psychology of ownership here...

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

No credit increase towards buyers as far as i am aware ... and i agree with this stance. Proces will simy rise if you odfer more mo ey to peoole, looking for a most basic human need and particularly in this banana republic housing market and the psychology of ownership here...

central bank rules havent actually done anything in relation to demand for housing, demand has in fact increased, there is effectively infinite amounts of credit available, but only to those that can afford it, central bank rules have only locked a whole cohort of people out of property markets, our housing issues have little or nothing to do with welfare classes. the psychology of home ownership is understandable, its called security, its a critical human need, and security of accommodation is by far the most critical of human needs

creeper1

If you successfully find a job when on the dole you stand to lose - the dole itself (something like 800 euros a month I believe), help with rent ( though I suppose low paying jobs allow you to keep this) and the medical card.

Has anyone done a calculation on what the minimum salary is before it’s worth your while working?

Government buildings

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There never was a housing crisis, there was an entitlement crisis pushed to death by the Lefties in the meedja.

And all the political parties in Ireland follow this.

Ardillaun

Coybig_ wrote: »

The answer is absolutely not to build more social housing. We don't need any more scroungers than there already are, or to be encouraging that sort of behaviour. We should be building nice affordable housing as a priority for the people on the border between lower and middle class.

What about the Viennese model with more renters and affordable housing?

The exhibition shows how Vienna – often ranked first in international quality of living scales – has developed a cost-rental housing model [the price tenants pay is based on construction and maintenance costs, not market rent] in well designed, adaptable and inclusive neighbourhoods.
It also explains the historic context of how the City of Vienna owns over 220,000 homes with another 200,000 provided by limited-profit housing associations. And, how three quarters of the city’s 1.9 million inhabitants rent apartments, many of which have terraced balconies, rooftop gardens and communal courtyards. About half of the population in Vienna were born outside of Austria.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/dublin-turns-to-vienna-for-affordable-housing-solution-1.3852436

One big advantage would be a more stable property market.

Wanderer78

creeper1 wrote:

If you successfully find a job when on the dole you stand to lose - the dole itself (something like 800 euros a month I believe), help with rent ( though I suppose low paying jobs allow you to keep this) and the medical card.

If you ve been long term unemployed, the chances of gaining employment are seriously stacked against you, and if you manage to over come this obstacle, which some do, you re very likely to remain in low waged work indefinitely, so meeting your accommodation needs will always be a serious problem

Ardillaun

For too long, we’ve gone down the Anglo-American route on property, viewing ever higher prices as a good thing rather than a cost to the real economy. As a result, productive young workers are pushed ever farther out of Dublin. It’s not a wise way to organize things.