Stop feeding Drummonds meal.....well any Meal

endainoz

I'm suprised nobody has talked about red clover silage instead of meal? I have heard of it used for finishing but not so much about it being given to weanlings. Would be a seriously cheap option if it could be used.

jaymla627

endainoz wrote: »

I'm suprised nobody has talked about red clover silage instead of meal? I have heard of it used for finishing but not so much about it being given to weanlings. Would be a seriously cheap option if it could be used.

Weather is the biggest issue re clover you have a small window to cut at the right stage and after that quality drops off rapidly, was maybe three chances here this year that a good 2-3 day window was got to make these high dm bales been raved about, in 80% of cases alot of baled silage was wet low dm shot out crap that needed to be cut 2 weeks earlier but no weather windows where got, no land charge been added to calculations re bales versus meal on a cost per dm basis is a textbook teagasc trick to

Bass Reeves

endainoz wrote: »

I'm suprised nobody has talked about red clover silage instead of meal? I have heard of it used for finishing but not so much about it being given to weanlings. Would be a seriously cheap option if it could be used.

I have tried different stuff to make silage. I have tried red clover while you are saving N you cannot autumn or spring graze, and you are looking at a 3 year reseeding cycle. Hybrid and Italian rygrasse were similar. Undersowing to barley and making arable silage was caught by reseeding grass struggle to compete for in silage award rape is an option in a year if caught for silage but land is out of commission until May early June following year.

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

Weather is the biggest issue re clover you have a small window to cut at the right stage and after that quality drops off rapidly, was maybe three chances here this year that a good 2-3 day window was got to make these high dm bales been raved about, in 80% of cases alot of baled silage was wet low dm shot out crap that needed to be cut 2 weeks earlier but no weather windows where got, no land charge been added to calculations re bales versus meal on a cost per dm basis is a textbook teagasc trick to

In drystock land is often not really the option. Most drystock farmers are stocked below 150kgN/ HA and some are not much with 100 kgs. There is a mortal fear of a fertilizer bill but lads have no issue going to the co-op every Friday from late August to early May and dropping 30-60 euro there.

My fertilizer bill is not inordinate I get 3 pallets of Urea, 2 of 18-6-12 and a pallet of CAN. However I treat slurry as an important nutrient as opposed to cost.

On high DM silage it matter of watching the weather from the 20th of May. I saw many lads get caught as crops had not bulked up last year and some missed late May cutting window. I struggled last year with grass all summer long I did not get the drenching come got and second cut ran to early August when I got the window after a wet spell.

cute geoge

Imo it os the quality of bought in meal is the problem most lads won't see results from feeding meal .Down here in Kerry it is impossible to get a simple 3 way mix with any combination of barley,maize meal ,soya ,distillers or glutten .Instead the choice will include wheat feed ,palm kernal ,extracted sunflower & other such fillers etc and the price is no less then if the main ingredients I listed were included .Farmers then can not figure why cows won't go incalf and cattle staggering after the winter after being fed this inferior cake!!!
Is there any mill that deliver a simple 3 way mix with a combination of native barley ,soya hulls/citrus ,maize meal /soya meal ,gluten distilllers in Kerry

endainoz

jaymla627 wrote: »

Weather is the biggest issue re clover you have a small window to cut at the right stage and after that quality drops off rapidly, was maybe three chances here this year that a good 2-3 day window was got to make these high dm bales been raved about, in 80% of cases alot of baled silage was wet low dm shot out crap that needed to be cut 2 weeks earlier but no weather windows where got, no land charge been added to calculations re bales versus meal on a cost per dm basis is a textbook teagasc trick to

I think last year weather-wise was exceptional at the same time. Drought followed by seemingly never ending rain, crops did suffer for sure. But seen as you have a sward established you'll surely try for a couple of cuts again?

endainoz

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In drystock land is often not really the option. Most drystock farmers are stocked below 150kgN/ HA and some are not much with 100 kgs. There is a mortal fear of a fertilizer bill but lads have no issue going to the co-op every Friday from late August to early May and dropping 30-60 euro there.

My fertilizer bill is not inordinate I get 3 pallets of Urea, 2 of 18-6-12 and a pallet of CAN. However I treat slurry as an important nutrient as opposed to cost.

On high DM silage it matter of watching the weather from the 20th of May. I saw many lads get caught as crops had not bulked up last year and some missed late May cutting window. I struggled last year with grass all summer long I did not get the drenching come got and second cut ran to early August when I got the window after a wet spell.

The idea of not being able to graze it probably puts some lads off the idea, I had thought to possibly pick a dry corner of one of the meadows and plant it there. I still haven't heard how weanlings would take to it, but if they are used to a mixed sward already, they should get used to eating it faster than meal.

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

Imo it os the quality of bought in meal is the problem most lads won't see results from feeding meal .Down here in Kerry it is impossible to get a simple 3 way mix with any combination of barley,maize meal ,soya ,distillers or glutten .Instead the choice will include wheat feed ,palm kernal ,extracted sunflower & other such fillers etc and the price is no less then if the main ingredients I listed were included .Farmers then can not figure why cows won't go incalf and cattle staggering after the winter after being fed this inferior cake!!!
Is there any mill that deliver a simple 3 way mix with a combination of native barley ,soya hulls/citrus ,maize meal /soya meal ,gluten distilllers in Kerry

I agree with you regarding quality in a lot of rations. Do Dairygold deliver into Kerry. I know Crecora mills and Riches feeds deliver into part of Kerry. It really a matter of checking different suppliers.

However on Teagas research projects the best of rations are specified. I not get caught up.on three way mixes for the winter anyway. There is no need of a fibre source feeding 2-3 kgs. I feeds 6 kgs to finishing cattle and there is no fibre source. It should not be an issue with baked silage. However Teagas research again has shown no difference between using straights by themselves to feed weanling or bullocks. If you want P try using straight palm Kernel.

You just need to balance the.minerals and vits . Remember KISS

Water John

Yeah have a bit of red clover silage. You'd nearly eat it yourself, it's really nice, cattle mad for it.
Like Bass I think says above, got caught with it as an undersow on oats. Will reseed again in the Spring. Haven't tried grazing it yet, but I think the trick is to have the animals full going into it and limit the amount for the first few days. I'd say really only talking of autumn grazing after 3rd cut.

Neo Sanders

Hi bass,

You said :
"There is a few reasons I do not feed ration. Spoilage of silage if I feed ration or mints on ration."

There's other lads on about putting barrels on the silage for ration.

What is the problem with putting ration or nuts on the silage. I'm doing it for years and I find it helps with clean out of silage. I'm on pit silage, so maybe it's different with bales???

My cattle aren't that picky, they'll just eat it!!

Sure anyone with a diet feeder is mixing a number of ingredients..

IMO a small bit of meal over the winter for weanlings or stores keeps them ticking over. They'll take a lot longer to come, if left stagnating for too long.... A wise man once said to me, 'by the time you've paid for the feed you haven't much out of them, but if you don't feed them you've nothing out of them'...

Jb1989

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Hi bass,

You said :
"There is a few reasons I do not feed ration. Spoilage of silage if I feed ration or mints on ration."

There's other lads on about putting barrels on the silage for ration.

What is the problem with putting ration or nuts on the silage. I'm doing it for years and I find it helps with clean out of silage. I'm on pit silage, so maybe it's different with bales???

My cattle aren't that picky, they'll just eat it!!

Sure anyone with a diet feeder is mixing a number of ingredients..

IMO a small bit of meal over the winter for weanlings or stores keeps them ticking over. They'll take a lot longer to come, if left stagnating for too long.... A wise man once said to me, 'by the time you've paid for the feed you haven't much out of them, but if you don't feed them you've nothing out of them'...

Cattle here eat every stem of silage with mail scattered across too. Never seen wastage.

Good loser

Half my stock are Frs and at 2.5 to 2.8 years they average €1060 ish in the factory. Calf to beef. Half P's and half O's (I'm a bottom feeder!)

Usually put the best 5/10 out in Feb. This year put the certain Ps out first.
Most were still Ps at sale in November around 350 kgs Fat score over 3.

Several years fed Frs significant ration on Oct/Nov grass; now I don't feed any.
The margin(for me) is not worth the work/management involved.

Generally give them 1/2 kgs over Winter. Silage quality is slowly improving.

amens

I say weigh them when you house them and when you let them out. If last year's group had a daily lwg of 0.6kg then I wouldn't change anything. If it's greater then reduce meal feeding. When I started farming silage fields hadn't been reseeded and I fed them no meal and they were the same weight at the end of the winter as at the start. Last year I was at around 0.5kg trying to give them the best of the silage and plenty of it with the meal. I can't see myself getting to 0.6kg without meal feeding.

I just saw a presentation by teagasc from 2013 where it said not to overrely on compensatory growth. They won't care either way whether your cattle gain weight or not.