I see the Christmas street traders are allowed now

Spanish Eyes

What could have been an opportunity to shove them all down to Wolfe Tone Park in a sort of Christmas Market situation, not happening, they are now to be allowed in reduced numbers in Henry and O'Connell Streets. Maybe next year they will be banned or moved :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-dublin-street-traders-and-council-reach-deal-for-run-up-to-christmas-1.4425528

I hate them, not personally but the way they clog up the street and sell total shyte, together with Tobacco under the prams and god knows what else.

Not suitable for a pedestrianised shopping street. Don't know how the established shops put up with them TBH.

What do you think?

IngazZagni

Saw a couple stalls there today. Selling counterfeit handbags. It looks absolute gash. In years gone past I used to be embarrassed when tourists would ask if this was Dublin’s Christmas market.

Now Henry Street today was very busy. I’d hate to see it on a weekend with extra stalls cluttering up the street.

Amazingfun

I was under the (clearly false) assumption that the flower traders wouldn't be allowed either, so was very pleasantly surprised to see all the lovely Christmas bouquets out today :-)

(agree about the mostly crap items sold on Henry St. though).

The J Stands for Jay

They're part of the reason I started avoiding the area at Christmas years ago.

Spanish Eyes

McGaggs wrote: »

They're part of the reason I started avoiding the area at Christmas years ago.

Totally agree. Never went down that way after December 1st. Just so shoddy and awful. But I really hope DCC rethink this for next year.

I still cannot understand the relaxed way the indoor businesses on the street put up with it. Baffled.

mad m

Wouldn’t be bad if the Stalls weren’t full of $hite....

Spanish Eyes

mad m wrote: »

Wouldn’t be bad if the Stalls weren’t full of $hite....

I reckon those who buy from them are looking under the prams, not at the tat above lol. I am sure you know what I mean here.

Time to get rid of them. They can be given space in Wolfe Tone Park and set up their own Christmas Market. Would be very atmospheric lol.

Get them off the streets FGS.

Strumms

Do an audit on them.

Plain clothes Gardai...approach to enter into a transaction as if to buy...

On purchase, walk away, check item to see if counterfeit, when you asked for a receipt were they able to provide one with ALL required details so that it’s an appropriate and legal document ? And a legal transaction ?

Spanish Eyes

sugarman wrote: »

Agreed, they just resell stuff from the €2 shops, Dealz and Penneys at marked up prices along with cheap counterfeit tat from China.

Lots of "stuff" under the counter/pram aswell. DCC were asleep at the wheel here. Along with the Guards and Revenue too. But maybe they just turned a blind eye, like they do along Moore Street too.

L1011

Amazingfun wrote: »

I was under the (clearly false) assumption that the flower traders wouldn't be allowed either, so was very pleasantly surprised to see all the lovely Christmas bouquets out today :-)

(agree about the mostly crap items sold on Henry St. though).

The flower traders have different ongoing pitches; same as Moore Street and the Thomas Street ones; the dithering was solely over the Henry/Mary Street pitches - two of which are actually just other permanent pitches moved anyway out

The council has a fees list that gives where they can be allowed; although I don't know if this was actually enacted - it removed Cumberland Street which caused a bit of controversy.

Some of these just I suspect aren't used at all e.g. the Cardiffsbridge Road one sounds like a hangover from the time it was built but I don't live nearby so maybe it does happen.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Lots of "stuff" under the counter/pram aswell. DCC were asleep at the wheel here. Along with the Guards and Revenue too. But maybe they just turned a blind eye, like they do along Moore Street too.

Lots of stuff under the counter/pram?

What kind of stuff?? You seem to be in the know. Id be interested in what you think they are selling from under their counters?

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Do an audit on them.

Plain clothes Gardai...approach to enter into a transaction as if to buy...

On purchase, walk away, check item to see if counterfeit, when you asked for a receipt were they able to provide one with ALL required details so that it’s an appropriate and legal document ? And a legal transaction ?

This is done.

Prosecuting counterfeit in court is however highly unlikely as the companies will rarely send an expert witness for the sake of a small street seller.

Besides, if you locked up all the Irish women who had knock off bags and wallets, there wouldnt be any left! :P

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Lots of "stuff" under the counter/pram aswell. DCC were asleep at the wheel here. Along with the Guards and Revenue too. But maybe they just turned a blind eye, like they do along Moore Street too.

I assume you mean cigarettes? Which is a revenue offence for customs to deal with and not the Gardai primarily

L1011

A lack of dodgy smokes coming in due to much less travel is believed to be one reason why excise duty is up 11% year-on-year in November as it happens...

Spanish Eyes

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I assume you mean cigarettes? Which is a revenue offence for customs to deal with and not the Gardai primarily

I know. You know, we all know this. Same with the knockoff stuff.

Terribly sorry I mentioned the Gardai there, mea culpa.

Get those traders outta there. As you can see I am not a fan. At all.

There is something dodgy about it all in my mind. Go across the road to Dealz or the Euro shop and buy at your leisure. It's a cover for something :eek:

Spanish Eyes

Jake1 wrote: »

Lots of stuff under the counter/pram?

What kind of stuff?? You seem to be in the know. Id be interested in what you think they are selling from under their counters?

You really don't have to be a genius to work it out, honestly.

Spanish Eyes

L1011 wrote: »

A lack of dodgy smokes coming in due to much less travel is believed to be one reason why excise duty is up 11% year-on-year in November as it happens...

That is not surprising, but they can't catch everyone even pre Covid. Maybe need tobacco detecting dogs aswell as the money and drug detecting pooches.

Just walk them up and down Henry/Mary/Moore Streets.

I know, I know, what about the Boardwalk and the open drug dealing etc. but we are talking about a main shopping street and permission from DCC here.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You really don't have to be a genius to work it out, honestly.

I was aware of the dodgy tobacco, but honestly, never knew they were selling drugs, as you are alleging.

learn something new everyday.

Spanish Eyes

Jake1 wrote: »

I was aware of the dodgy tobacco, but honestly, never knew they were selling drugs, as you are alleging.

learn something new everyday.

Lawless, the lot of them, perfect cover. Get your tinsel, your bits of Christmas tat, and.......

Now why would anyone buy from them when it can be bought for the same or lower price in a store across the road? Often wondered about that.

But I am the one who will be arrested for saying this. :P

ixoy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I still cannot understand the relaxed way the indoor businesses on the street put up with it. Baffled.

The shops, I believe, would gladly see the stalls banned. They've no say in the matter and the stall owners would cry tears of persecution by the Big Bad Council if they were shut down.

Pete Moss

Spanish Eyes wrote:

That is not surprising, but they can't catch everyone even pre Covid. Maybe need tobacco detecting dogs aswell as the money and drug detecting pooches.

This has to be a wind-up? You think there is some Narcos style drug dealing going on from prams under stalls on one of the busiest streets in the country? At the busiest time of year? Where hundreds of unknown passers-by (any one of which could be a Garda in plain clothes) browse the same exact stalls?

I worked in the area and knew a few of the traders when I was younger. To think, Rose the 50 year old mother of 2, who sold selection boxes and tat made in China, was really El Chapo all this time.

Spanish Eyes

ixoy wrote: »

The shops, I believe, would gladly see the stalls banned. They've no say in the matter and the stall owners would cry tears of persecution by the Big Bad Council if they were shut down.

But the indoor shops are paying a mint to the Council in rates. The street traders just pay a license fee or something.

Funny that the Traders were giving out first, but the indoor shops stayed quiet. I still can't figure it out. Are the indoor shops afraid of them or what?

Pete Moss

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Funny that the Traders were giving out first, but the indoor shops stayed quiet. I still can't figure it out. Are the indoor shops afraid of them or what?

Intimidation now too. The charge sheet is growing by the minute. Throw the book at 'em, OP.

Spanish Eyes

Pete Moss wrote: »

This has to be a wind-up? You think there is some Narcos style drug dealing going on from prams under stalls on one of the busiest streets in the country? At the busiest time of year? Where hundreds of unknown passers-by (any one of which could be a Garda in plain clothes) browse the same exact stalls?

I worked in the area and knew a few of the traders when I was younger. To think, Rose the 50 year old mother of 2, who sold selection boxes and tat made in China, was really El Chapo all this time.

Look, if I want to buy tinsel and all that I'll go to a shop, it is cheaper and you can browse to your heart's content. Work it out. These street trading people cannot fool purchasers anymore so there you go.

Spanish Eyes

Pete Moss wrote: »

Intimidation now too. The charge sheet is growing by the minute. Throw the book at 'em, OP.

LOL. :P

elperello

I find it easy enough to not buy from them.

From their point of view I suppose they have to hold their ground.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

LOL. :P

Im heading in tomorrow for selection boxes and a big bad of heroin.

Spanish Eyes

Good to see it's (so far) lighthearted.

But they grind my gears just the same, anyway...

Spanish Eyes

Jake1 wrote: »

Im heading in tomorrow for selection boxes and a big bad of heroin.

As a Dub I broke me heart laughing at that. Fair play to you.

Pete Moss

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Look, if I want to buy tinsel and all that I'll go to a shop, it is cheaper and you can browse to your heart's content. Work it out. These street trading people cannot fool purchasers anymore so there you go.

For what it's worth, I dislike the stalls. Years ago, there was an element of 'Dublin in the rare auld times' from them. Times move on and it would be better to have a designated Christmas Market.

That said, I would not for one second be thinking that the traders there are peddling smack. There would be plenty of more secure locations to do that than on Henry Street at Christmas - one of the most densely packed and well-lit streets in the country.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. Have a merry Christmas, OP - I feel safer knowing you're walking the beat of this town :P

Spanish Eyes

Pete Moss wrote: »

For what it's worth, I dislike the stalls. Years ago, there was an element of 'Dublin in the rare auld times' from them. Times move on and it would be better to have a designated Christmas Market.

That said, I would not for one second be thinking that the traders there are peddling smack. There would be plenty of more secure locations to do that than on Henry Street at Christmas - one of the most densely packed and well-lit streets in the country.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. Have a merry Christmas, OP - I feel safer knowing you're walking the beat of this town :P

I don't think I ever mentioned Smack at all. Just dodgy dealing and a bit of weed and cheap tobacco maybe under the prams/stalls.

But wishing you a great Christmas too. I am just shooting the breeze on a topic that most people ignore, but I absolutely hate!

All the best.

Rrrrrr2

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

Rrrrrr2

I’ll hopefully be up in Dublin pre Xmas for some shopping, must make a point of buying a few bits off them. Trade must be way down due them. It’s not like they can go online or click/collect

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

This is done.

Prosecuting counterfeit in court is however highly unlikely as the companies will rarely send an expert witness for the sake of a small street seller.

Besides, if you locked up all the Irish women who had knock off bags and wallets, there wouldnt be any left! :P

True, to a point, but if you turn a blind eye to certain levels of criminality it will spiral out of control.

Gardai decide not to bother with people going through red lights by a fraction, speeding... after a while society gets more complacent with grave consequences...

If laws are broken, no matter what, arrest and prosecute.

mad m

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

Yes, generations ago ,when decent folk sold sound stuff. It’s changed a lot since then. I do agree with you though as there is some sellers who are out in all weathers at top of Meath st/Thomas st. I’ve walked through Greek street flats on numerous occasions near fruit market. Girl at end of steps in husky voice “ smokes love” runs up to 2nd floor gets the fags and money changes hand...

Atlantic Dawn

I really feel sorry for Arnotts, the effort they make on their front window display to be then hidden by what resembles a disorganised car boot sale selling utter sheite that makes Dealz look like Harrods.

Pkiernan

But their charming inner city accents are a delight on the ears.

IngazZagni

I've been accused of being a guard on more than one occasion in that area.
Whatever about the counterfeit goods they sell. I have genuine concerns about some of the children's toys they sell. Are they really safe? We hear often about fake toys being dangerous to children due to shoddy workmanship and the presence of lead etc.
I'm not a smoker but I've heard some of the cigarettes they sell are cheap knockoffs. These could have dangerous chemicals (yes more than the real ones) in them.

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

Niallof9

its clearly a soft policy of acceptance/regulation, to encourage some economic activity in these communities and if they were banned there would be war. I don't like them but i can see their need. Same up on Meath Street. At least its mostly tat, go down to the Milk Market (one of the best in Ireland) and outside people sell machinery, which you have to ask is coming from where...i mean if some of the stuff is coming from the back of a truck, yeah its a disgrace.

But shutting them down would create a huge problem. Its like the horse lads on Grafton st, alot of 15 year olds. They are earning money here, in as about as honest a way as they can, so its mainly a positive.

Niallof9

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

I agree with what you say, but the last bit is what pisses people off. How much is paid in tax etc?

But yeah if you shut these stalls down you have damaged a whole community and undone 100 years of history. SO i agree with your sentiment. Now if you reopened the Iveagh markets i would argue against putting them back.

El Tarangu

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!

The fact that they sell illegal things like fireworks and untaxed cigarettes is why people want them closed down.

Rrrrrr2

El Tarangu wrote: »

The fact that they sell illegal things like fireworks and untaxed cigarettes is why people want them closed down.

Ah it’s over 20 years ago now! Was very blatant back then. Think it’s more discrete now

Black cats and Roman candles!!!

strandroad

IngazZagni wrote: »

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

Last year's Dublin Castle market was actually really nice, it's the right location for it, it just needs to be expanded to the castle grounds beyond the courtyard which is too small to hold it all. I hope that it will be back in 2021.

This way the Southside can have artisan bakes and ornaments, and the Northside can have tat prams with dodgy smokes, choose the right one for ye!

Chiorino

Regardless of what you think of the traders, they do need insurance and tax clearance before the council will issue them a licence for the month (which costs around €500 incidentally) and if they have any convictions for selling anything illegal, they wont get it. Most of them have been there for decades and in all likelyhood, once they retire, they won't be replaced. Numbers trading have been in steady decline for a while now so leave them at it and eventually it will fade away naturally. Lots of people enjoy having them on Henry Street at Christmas and if you don't, just avoid them.

Thelonious Monk

Can't stand these stalls and I avoid Henry St at this time of year because of them. At least it gets them off the dole for a few weeks!

fleet_admiral

IngazZagni wrote: »

I've been accused of being a guard on more than one occasion in that area.
Whatever about the counterfeit goods they sell. I have genuine concerns about some of the children's toys they sell. Are they really safe? We hear often about fake toys being dangerous to children due to shoddy workmanship and the presence of lead etc.
I'm not a smoker but I've heard some of the cigarettes they sell are cheap knockoffs. These could have dangerous chemicals (yes more than the real ones) in them.

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

The fact that they are accusing you of bring a garda says something. Why would they do that if they are only selling tinsel and Toblerones

ixoy

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can't stand these stalls and I avoid Henry St at this time of year because of them. At least it gets them off the dole for a few weeks!

Same for myself and my husband and I imagine there's more people put off visiting the street than heading in just to see the stalls.

Spanish Eyes

Hope they scrap them next year. They add nothing. Tacky and all that, Dealz is far better.

I agree with a pp, the shops like Arnotts put a lot of work into dressing their windows, only for them to be invisible because of the stalls.

You’d never see them outside BT or on Grafton Street now would you.

thenightman

Hope they stay and would sooner have them in the area than the sort of 'respectable retailers' like Debenhams who fecked over their staff without a second thought. Some sour auld folk in here. What harm are they doing?

On a note with nothing to do with the Christmas traders; Customs are always active enough either covertly or in uniform on Moore Street on the hunt for the cigs, great craic watching the auld wans trying to suss them out!

Spanish Eyes

thenightman wrote: »

Hope they stay and would sooner have them in the area than the sort of 'respectable retailers' like Debenhams who fecked over their staff without a second thought. Some sour auld folk in here. What harm are they doing?

On a note with nothing to do with the Christmas traders; Customs are always active enough either covertly or in uniform on Moore Street on the hunt for the cigs, great craic watching the auld wans trying to suss them out!

The street traders are an anachronism these days. Their days are numbered. Tacky and cheap and clogging up the streets.

Wolfe Tone park around the corner is DCC owned, let them off there to sell their crap.

Not one stall to be found on Grafton Street or surrounds. Hmm. wonder why.

Rrrrrr2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The street traders are an anachronism these days. Their days are numbered. Tacky and cheap and clogging up the streets.

Wolfe Tone park around the corner is DCC owned, let them off there to sell their crap.

Not one stall to be found on Grafton Street or surrounds. Hmm. wonder why.

Aren’t there still those flower stalls in the middle of Grafton St?