Brexit impact on UK imports?

Tombo2001

Cant see a recent thread on this which surprises me.

Is there any firm detail in pounds and pence or euro and cent vis a vis what the Brexit impact will be for people that buy a car in Newry and want to register it in Dundalk (for example).

There's a month to go, and the revenue website is still dealing in what 'may' happen rather than what 'will' happen.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

User1998

If revenue can’t give firm detail, folk on boards won’t be able to either.

When Revenue say ‘may’ happen, Its because the UK and the EU are still working on a trade deal which may or may not be finished in time.

According to Revenue, N.I imports won’t be subject to any extra charges, cars from the UK will be subject to VAT, customs, and VRT. Similar to a Japanese import

Theres a dedicated Importing from UK thread hence no separate thread for this

_Kaiser_

User1998 wrote: »

If revenue can’t give firm detail, folk on boards won’t be able to either.

When Revenue say ‘may’ happen, Its because the UK and the EU are still working on a trade deal which may or may not be finished in time.

According to Revenue, N.I imports won’t be subject to any extra charges, cars from the UK will be subject to VAT, customs, and VRT. Similar to a Japanese import

Theres a dedicated Importing from UK thread hence no separate thread for this

I see a business opportunity for NI dealers and traders to import from the "mainland" and sell on down South

bazz26

They have been doing that for years.

Tombo2001

User1998 wrote: »

If revenue can’t give firm detail, folk on boards won’t be able to either.

When Revenue say ‘may’ happen, Its because the UK and the EU are still working on a trade deal which may or may not be finished in time.

According to Revenue, N.I imports won’t be subject to any extra charges, cars from the UK will be subject to VAT, customs, and VRT. Similar to a Japanese import

Theres a dedicated Importing from UK thread hence no separate thread for this

Thanks for this. I hadn't seen the sub-forum.

By the sounds of it, if NI imports arent subject to any extra charges, then I dont see how things change all that much.

Isambard

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thanks for this. I hadn't seen the sub-forum.

By the sounds of it, if NI imports arent subject to any extra charges, then I dont see how things change all that much.

no one knows and it's dependant on a deal... No Deal and extra charges apply.

Del2005

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see a business opportunity for NI dealers and traders to import from the "mainland" and sell on down South

I thought the same but isn't one of the reasons the DUP don't like this deal is because there will be duty between Northern Ireland and Britain

User1998

Dealers in the north are going to have to pay more taxes on the profits they make from cars from the mainland and that will increase the prices they charge here

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-54967496

Marcusm

User1998 wrote: »

Dealers in the north are going to have to pay more taxes on the profits they make from cars from the mainland and that will increase the prices they charge here

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-54967496

They will have to focus on VAT qualifying cars and I suspect HMRC will give an input tax credit.

gally74

looks liek this is over as its going to get complicated..... the reality is 2nd hand car prices will rise over here, then eventually they will realise they can raise the price of new cars too.

Citrus_8

gally74 wrote: »

looks liek this is over as its going to get complicated..... the reality is 2nd hand car prices will rise over here, then eventually they will realise they can raise the price of new cars too.

Does a deal Brexit mean tariffs and taxes on the card imports? I thought most things are going to be same except a more paperwork which shouldn't increase prices too much. Or it's just a classical way to find any reason to increase prices and blame Brexit for it? Irish car importers should be interested in keeping their business and servicing a demand and they shouldn't increase prices to cover their lose due to paperwork.

Quebec Delta Mike

Hi,


Not sure if this has been followed up anywhere else, but here is the answer to the question...


https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/index.aspx


So, Revenue are applying the full quota of restrictions/taxes on a UK vehicle import. I spoke to them today for clarification, and was told by someone there, reading the same web page as me, what was now expected since Jan 1st 2021.



To import a UK vehicle...


1. You need to engage with a Customs Facilitation Agent....Google it, there are lots, all for a fee, I haven't chased it up yet. They will need a Commodity Code/HF Code for the vehicle, supplied by the seller/dealer. The agent will fill out the Customs Declaration Form for you.

2. You will then pay 10% import duty.
3. On top of that...21% VAT !!
4. Then pay the VRT....and don't forget the NOX tax as well (if it's a diesel)


So that's 5 separate taxes/payments now needed to bring in a car/mcycle from the UK....someone do the sums, but I think that market is now dead!


QDM

Isambard

Quebec Delta Mike wrote: »

Hi,


Not sure if this has been followed up anywhere else, but here is the answer to the question...


https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/index.aspx


So, Revenue are applying the full quota of restrictions/taxes on a UK vehicle import. I spoke to them today for clarification, and was told by someone there, reading the same web page as me, what was now expected since Jan 1st 2021.



To import a UK vehicle...


1. You need to engage with a Customs Facilitation Agent....Google it, there are lots, all for a fee, I haven't chased it up yet. They will need a Commodity Code/HF Code for the vehicle, supplied by the seller/dealer. The agent will fill out the Customs Declaration Form for you.

2. You will then pay 10% import duty.
3. On top of that...21% VAT !!
4. Then pay the VRT....and don't forget the NOX tax as well (if it's a diesel)


So that's 5 separate taxes/payments now needed to bring in a car/mcycle from the UK....someone do the sums, but I think that market is now dead!


QDM

unfortunately you are not correct on a couple of points, some more research needed.

The_B_Man

Does that apply to second hand cars as well? I mean where VAT has already been paid in England, can you claim it back?

MetzgerMeister

Isambard wrote: »

unfortunately you are not correct on a couple of points, some more research needed.

Correct. Revenue's website says that a car imported from the UK will not incur a customs duty fee. There is still however VAT and VRT to be paid.

Bluefoam

I would hazard a guess and say that most UK imports have already paid VAT in the EU... they were originally bought when the UK was in the EU... I'm not saying revenue won't charge VAT on them again, but seems slightly obscure to me. I'm not offering answers, just speculating.

I do think Brexit will drive second hand car prices up. Ideally Ireland should switch to LHD, but that seems a massive endevour at this stage.

MetzgerMeister

So it would make sense then that only cars registered on and after 01.01.21 will incur the VAT charge? Makes a lot more sense.

Casati

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So it would make sense then that only cars registered on and after 01.01.21 will incur the VAT charge? Makes a lot more sense.

That might make sense to you or I, however VAT has to be paid again. Also if the car was manufactured outside the U.K. you will be stung for 10% duty also

Tropheus

Casati wrote: »

That might make sense to you or I, however VAT has to be paid again. Also if the car was manufactured outside the U.K. you will be stung for 10% duty also

It doesn't make sense that duty would apply on an EU manufactured car.

However, we have VRT so nothing would surprise me.

Isambard

Tropheus wrote: »

It doesn't make sense that duty would apply on an EU manufactured car.

However, we have VRT so nothing would surprise me.

I beleive that this is for EU registered cars exported to or used in the UK. These would attract duty on export to Ireland.

celtic_oz

taken from https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40201356.html

If you are an individual or a business and you import vehicles from Britain, you are required to complete a customs declaration; pay or account for customs duty of 10% if applicable; and pay Vat at 21% prior to presenting the vehicle for registration

so VAT is always due ?

is customs duty normally applicable ?

in this context is N Ireland = Britain ?

MetzgerMeister

So in essence someone sells a car in the UK to me, they get a VAT and VRT refund upon export and then I have to pay VAT and VRT here.

Yep, that market is dead and so are the likes of Flipping Cars (he'll be flipping burgers from now on :pac: ) and any other car sourcing company unless they focus on NI cars.

EDIT: As an example, a car I was looking at was going to cost c. €43,000 cleared before Brexit. Now it's at €56,000. !LOL!

ELM327

Tropheus wrote: »

It doesn't make sense that duty would apply on an EU manufactured car.

However, we have VRT so nothing would surprise me.

It doesnt make sense, but that's the agreement.

ELM327

celtic_oz wrote: »

taken from https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40201356.html



so VAT is always due ?

is customs duty normally applicable ?

in this context is N Ireland = Britain ?

No.
There are three terms that are now going to be fully understood. UK, GB,NI.

celtic_oz

ELM327 wrote: »

No.
There are three terms that are now going to be fully understood. UK, GB,NI.

Are you saying VAT or customs duty are not due on cars imported from NI ?

MetzgerMeister

celtic_oz wrote: »

Are you saying VAT or customs duty are not due on cars imported from NI ?

That's how it looks.

The thing is, one can own and drive a UK reg car in NI without any cost involved. It's up to the owner if they want to register it on NI plates but it's not necessary so beware of that if you're looking for only NI cars.

Esel

Car has to have been registered in NI before 31/12/2020 to qualify for no Duty or VAT afaik.

Isambard

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

That's how it looks.

The thing is, one can own and drive a UK reg car in NI without any cost involved. It's up to the owner if they want to register it on NI plates but it's not necessary so beware of that if you're looking for only NI cars.

you would have to have proof that a GB car was properly imported to NI, and registered by a Resident or NI business , or a NI dealer.

Different VAT arrangements apply too for a business importing into NI , they will have to pay the VAT up front rather than on sale.Presumably to avoid the cars all disappearing over the border, VAT unpaid.

ELM327

celtic_oz wrote: »

Are you saying VAT or customs duty are not due on cars imported from NI ?

VAT and customs duty on importing an NI car with the appropriate paperwork is nil.


See from revenue:

Revenue wrote:

If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

• Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
• VAT at 21% (only in respect of new vehicles).

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

MetzgerMeister

Isambard wrote: »

you would have to have proof that a GB car was properly imported to NI, and registered by a Resident or NI business , or a NI dealer.

Different VAT arrangements apply too for a business importing into NI , they will have to pay the VAT up front rather than on sale.Presumably to avoid the cars all disappearing over the border, VAT unpaid.

Correct. Also the car has to have lived in NI for 6 months previous to import date.

Casati

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Correct. Also the car has to have lived in NI for 6 months previous to import date.

Where did you get the six month rule from- don't believe this is stated on the revenue site?

Either way N.I. looks like they will also struggle to get enough cars to fulfil their own demand as vat is also liable between U.K. and N.I. on used cars older than 6 months / > 6,000km covered so its likely prices up there will increase to a level that it won't make sense to import from their either.

ELM327

Casati wrote: »

Where did you get the six month rule from- don't believe this is stated on the revenue site?

Either way N.I. looks like they will also struggle to get enough cars to fulfil their own demand as vat is also liable between U.K. and N.I. on used cars older than 6 months / > 6,000km covered so its likely prices up there will increase to a level that it won't make sense to import from their either.

Correct. The 6 month rule does not exist. It is not mentioned on the revenue site. The only requirement is that the dealer has to register the car in NI and provide proof. There is a form for this.

To correct your statement a little, VAT is due between GB and NI. Not UK and NI.

celtic_oz

where does it say the car has to be registered in the northern Ireland ?

MetzgerMeister

I read about the 6 month rule somewhere...can't for the life of me remember where.

WacoKid

6 month rule is if you have lived in NI and have owned the car for over 6 months then you can bring it south with no VRT.

You need to prove with bills etc. that you have lived in NI for the period in question. I imagine the VRT checks for this scenario would be very detailed.

quokula

WacoKid wrote: »

6 month rule is if you have lived in NI and have owned the car for over 6 months then you can bring it south with no VRT.

You need to prove with bills etc. that you have lived in NI for the period in question. I imagine the VRT checks for this scenario would be very detailed.

I went through this a few years ago when moving back from the UK, along with a car I'd owned for ages. They are indeed very detailed - I needed six different pieces of proof, each one dated for a separate month, to show that I lived there for all six of the months in question, along with proof of purchase of the car prior to that date, proof it was insured in the UK for the whole period, ferry ticket showing the date the car came across from Holyhead, and they even asked for some parking receipts showing evidence that the car was physically in the UK during that period too.

celtic_oz

I cant find anything online that says the car has to be registered in Northern Ireland

If VAT is due for people who live in NI importing from GB and they DONT pay it, and an Rep of I person imports said car, surely the VAT liability stops with the NI person, as long as the car was in their name (albeit temporarily )

If people have views can they link the reference thanks

WacoKid

Up until end of Dec 2020, the import model was from UK to ROI. NI is part of the UK.

The term 'UK import' no longer exists as of Jan 2021. It is a GB import from mainland Britain. NI is not part of Great Britain.

For cars that resided in NI pre Jan 2021 you will pay VRT on them as normal. For cars brought into NI from Jan 2021 sees the NI importer having to pay VAT to GB when bringing them in.

So:
If you import a car from NI post Jan 2021 then it is VRT only as VAT will have been charged when it was brought in from GB to NI.

If you import a car from GB post Jan 2021 then it is VRT & VAT.

Casati

WacoKid wrote: »

Up until end of Dec 2020, the import model was from UK to ROI. NI is part of the UK.

The term 'UK import' no longer exists as of Jan 2021. It is a GB import from mainland Britain. NI is not part of Great Britain.

For cars that resided in NI pre Jan 2021 you will pay VRT on them as normal. For cars brought into NI from Jan 2021 sees the NI importer having to pay VAT to GB when bringing them in.

So:
If you import a car from NI post Jan 2021 then it is VRT only as VAT will have been charged when it was brought in from GB to NI.

If you import a car from GB post Jan 2021 then it is VRT & VAT.

+ Duty for GB imports if the car was manufactured outside of U.K.

Casati

celtic_oz wrote: »

If the car is registered to a Northern Ireland dealer, then this is irrelevant, correct?

why does it where it was manufactured make a difference ?

Sorry duty is only ever applicable if the car is coming from GB - i.e. England, Scotland or Wales. If coming from N.I. then no duty.

Duty is also only applicable if the car was made outside of the U.K.. So if your keen on a Jag then you can buy it from England without Duty

MetzgerMeister

I wouldn't mind paying duty. It's the VAT I don't like :pac:

Lleyn elec

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying duty. It's the VAT I don't like :pac:

You can avoid paying the UK vat if it’s a vat qualifying UK car.
It’s definalty possible to filter the auction sites for this.

Isambard

Lleyn elec wrote: »

You can avoid paying the UK vat if it’s a vat qualifying UK car.
It’s definalty possible to filter the auction sites for this.

The GB VAT will already be paid. A qualifying car presumably means it can be reclaimed in the UK. Still would be paid in Ireland though on a GB car

ELM327

Lleyn elec wrote: »

You can avoid paying the UK vat if it’s a vat qualifying UK car.
It’s definalty possible to filter the auction sites for this.

So it would have to be a car that was never in private ownership to avoid UK VAT and also contain at least 40% UK parts to avoid 10% import duty.

Isambard

i expect the situation will be clarified quite shortly. It's obvious that the situation cannot remain like that

Bluefoam

This seems to address some of the issues:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-tier-system-applies-for-post-brexit-vehicle-imports-from-north-and-britain-1.4455376?mode=amp

ELM327

Indeed it does


"Revenue confirmed neither a customs declaration nor VAT would be payable on second-hand vehicles coming from the North. "






PS: Shout out to phil fitzgerald getting his name in there, a well known car retailer on the EV side of this board.


"Phil Fitzgerald, a used car importer based in Naas, Co Kildare said the changes would mainly impact dealers in Northern Ireland who can not source “margin” sales of second-hand cars in the UK, without paying VAT."

Isambard

makes no mention at all of where a car is built. Facebook is rife with people saying a car has to be 40% built of GB parts to avoid Import duty. I'm sure that's a mis-interpretation

pale rider

I've been searching today for a Northern Ireland Registered car for myself from maybe 2018, so it seems I can also purchase any 2018 car from a Dealer in NI regardless of original registration being NI OR UK without fear of VAT, that sound right, just the VRT/Nox so ?

Casati

pale rider wrote: »

I've been searching today for a Northern Ireland Registered car for myself from maybe 2018, so it seems I can also purchase any 2018 car from a Dealer in NI regardless of original registration being NI OR UK without fear of VAT, that sound right, just the VRT/Nox so ?

If the dealer has imported that car from U.K. I think you need to show that he has completed relevant customs documentation to import from U.K.

pale rider

Casati wrote: »

If the dealer has imported that car from U.K. I think you need to show that he has completed relevant customs documentation to import from U.K.

So, it may be safer if I focus on NI reg cars that have lived there since first registration or ask for proof as you outlined, cheers.