Medical Cannabis for Ava Twomey - Deliver it.

Gruffalux

What a stupid thing that the government are telling Vera Twomey, Ava's mother, that after this lockdown is lifted she or her husband will have to travel every 12 weeks to the Netherlands to get Ava's cannabis. They would be putting themselves at far greater risk of contracting Covid 19 by traveling, and it would be terrible for Ava to catch it. The government have managed to import and deliver Ava's medical cannabis since March but now they want the parents to do it...Really Stupid.

https://twitter.com/_BenFinnegan/status/1331114250102824961?s=20


Stephen Donnelly is wondering what's up, Vera? How can I help? :rolleyes: Come on for goodness sake, don't be stupid.

https://twitter.com/veras1/status/1331176523177537542?s=20

flazio

Just to clarify. Is CBD oil this legal cannabis that everyone is mulling over?

McGinniesta

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Gruffalux

flazio wrote: »

Just to clarify. Is CBD oil this legal cannabis that everyone is mulling over?

It is medicinal cannabis oil for Dravet's syndrome which Ava has - a severe form of epilepsy. The oil Ava uses contains THC.

There are other people in the country in the same predicament. About 40 according to Twomey.

Cordell

CBD oil is extracted from hemp, not from the strains which are colloquially called weed. Also, it does nothing.

suicide_circus

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Gruffalux

Cordell wrote: »

CBD oil is extracted from hemp, not from the strains which are colloquially called weed. Also, it does nothing.

As far as I an aware the type of oil Ava benefits from contains THC which is psychoactive. She has written that her child's medicine regime includes the THC component. It has been extremely beneficial for her condition - her mother says it has saved her life.

In recent years, a series of clinical trials on a CBD treatment called Epidiolex have shown promising results in reducing seizures in children with rare and severe epilepsies such as Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut syndrome (link 1; link 2; link 3).

In June 2018, Epidiolex received approval from the US FDA for use in these epilepsies. The drug is currently being reviewed in Europe by the European Medicines Agency and is expected to be approved in 2019 or early 2020.

https://www.epilepsy.ie/content/medical-cannabis

biko

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

Gruffalux

biko wrote: »

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

That would be good of you. Every 12 weeks is what they used to do before Covid. Then the govt stepped in to import and deliver. I am guessing they don't want to continue that as it would be de facto recognition of, or establishment by custom of - not quite a right, but some kind of prerogative - to medical cannabis and they would have to then supply others. It is all just so stupid at this stage.

Thelonious Monk

It's easy enough to buy all sorts from the dark web, normal cannabis and other drugs anyway

suicide_circus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's easy enough to buy all sorts from the dark web, normal cannabis and other drugs anyway

Well quite but a 10 year old girl for whom cannabis is the answer to her severe seizures shouldnt have to do that!

amadangomor

McGinniesta wrote: »

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Great contribution duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude :rolleyes:

amadangomor

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Agree totally but strong regulation with this please. Make sure no one under 18 gets it and the strains with crazy strong THC to be still banned.

amadangomor

biko wrote: »

I'll go get it for them. A trip to Holland every few weeks would be nice.

Pity someone here can't grow the medical strain they need under license for them.

If someone can get a license to use it they should be providing licenses to produce it within the state.

Cordell

The girl needs the medical grade extract, you can't expect her to smoke/inhale/eat the home grown stuff. She needs to get better, not high.
I do support legalization, but this is not a case for it.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

That would be good of you. Every 12 weeks is what they used to do before Covid. Then the govt stepped in to import and deliver. I am guessing they don't want to continue that as it would be de facto recognition of, or establishment by custom of - not quite a right, but some kind of prerogative - to medical cannabis and they would have to then supply others. It is all just so stupid at this stage.

That’s part of it alright, and there’s also this conflation -

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

And the fact that claims of it’s efficacy are not supported by scientific evidence -


A report by the Health Protection Regulatory Authority (HPRA) in February 2017 found a lack of scientific data to demonstrate the robust effectiveness of any form of medicinal cannabis. It stated that there was "At best, a moderate benefit for cannabis in a small number of conditions and conflicting evidence, or no evidence at all, in a large number of other medical conditions. The effectiveness and safety of cannabis in large numbers of medical conditions is simply not proven." In addition, "The HPRA considers that there is not currently evidence that cannabinoids are an effective treatment in epilepsy.


Plus the unknown long term effects on brain development of it’s use.

It creates not just a significant ethical dilemma for Government because there are children involved, quite apart from any consideration of whether it would be economically viable or would the Government be put over a barrel again as they were for the provision of Orkambi -


One year on: Has Orkambi improved CF patients’ lives?

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s part of it alright, and there’s also this conflation -





And the fact that claims of it’s efficacy are not supported by scientific evidence -


A report by the Health Protection Regulatory Authority (HPRA) in February 2017 found a lack of scientific data to demonstrate the robust effectiveness of any form of medicinal cannabis. It stated that there was "At best, a moderate benefit for cannabis in a small number of conditions and conflicting evidence, or no evidence at all, in a large number of other medical conditions. The effectiveness and safety of cannabis in large numbers of medical conditions is simply not proven." In addition, "The HPRA considers that there is not currently evidence that cannabinoids are an effective treatment in epilepsy.


Plus the unknown long term effects on brain development of it’s use.

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I do not mind the conflation with recreational cannabis. Personally I cannot even handle caffeine and take no drugs, not even tea, but if alcohol can be freely enjoyed I do not see why people who prefer cannabis should not have ordinary regulated access to it as adults have to alcohol. They should just legalise it altogether and also provide excellent medical grade products to people like Ava.

As for the efficacy of the medical cannabis for Ava it seems to have really helped the child. Dravet's syndrome is horrible and if her number of daily seizures have lessened that is worthwhile. A lot of pharmaceuticals produced by medical companies have severe side effects and long term issues. I would also not be surprised if there is a pharmaceutical lobby to undermine medical cannabis.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

I do not mind the conflation with recreational cannabis. Personally I cannot even handle caffeine and take no drugs, not even tea, but if alcohol can be freely enjoyed I do not see why people who prefer cannabis should not have ordinary regulated access to it as adults have to alcohol. They should just legalise it altogether and also provide excellent medical grade products to people like Ava.

As for the efficacy of the medical cannabis for Ava it seems to have really helped the child. Dravet's syndrome is horrible and if her number of daily seizures have lessened that is worthwhile. A lot of pharmaceuticals produced by medical companies have severe side effects and long term issues. I would also not be surprised if there is a pharmaceutical lobby to undermine medical cannabis.

I think medicinal and recreational should be kept separate. The conflation of cannabis for recreational purposes is precisely what makes arguments for it’s medicinal use suspicious - the underlying primary motivation being decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes.

What you’re suggesting just isn’t economically viable. Government don’t want a repeat of the Orkambi fiasco where a tugging of the public’s heartstrings meant the public were fleeced to the tune of €400m over five years for a drug that it turned out didn’t live up to it’s marketing hype - it wasn’t the wonder drug it was claimed to be, same as the drugs being marketed as treatments to alleviate the effects of very specific forms of epilepsy.

It’s regulation btw is putting pharmaceutical companies off exploring investing in cannabis for medicinal purposes. They’re aware they stand to make a fortune by being able to control the supply to market, as they do with many other types of drugs -


Exclusive: One Of The Largest Pharma Companies In The World Has Made A Big Move In Cannabis

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think medicinal and recreational should be kept separate. The conflation of cannabis for recreational purposes is precisely what makes arguments for it’s medicinal use suspicious - the underlying primary motivation being decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes.

.

Suspicious of what? Reefer madness?
Just make available medical and non-medical use.

kildare lad

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is medicinal cannabis oil for Dravet's syndrome which Ava has - a severe form of epilepsy. The oil Ava uses contains THC.

There are other people in the country in the same predicament. About 40 according to Twomey.

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Suspicious of what? Reefer madness?
Just make available medical and non-medical use.

Suspicious of arguments for it’s medicinal use being used to covertly attempt to argue it’s decriminalisation for recreational use. They’re two very different issues.

Gruffalux

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

That's terrible. I imagine good oil would be better.
It should be legal for medical purposes and for non medical purposes. Some people don't like the drugs the government says are legal. If I take any alcohol I go bright red immediately - apparently it is a faulty ALDH2 gene. Yay me!

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Suspicious of arguments for it’s medicinal use being used to covertly attempt to argue it’s decriminalisation for recreational use. They’re two very different issues.

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

jimmycrackcorm

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal for anyone who has serious medical conditions.

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

When you write ''then'' it does not make everything or anything you write afterwards automatically true, although that is how it is framed.
But, grand job, I have got your opinion on the matter now.

Gruffalux

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

Do you think there is no drug driving now? There is loads of it. Not to mention the drivers hopped up to the eyeballs on anxiolytics and other legal meds.
Regulation would have to include drug driving testing just like for alcohol.

One eyed Jack

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

They’re different drugs for a start, neither are ideal, but the goal in either case is harm reduction. Methodone use has plenty of evidence of it’s efficacy in harm reduction. Cannabis, not so much -

Twenty years of the methadone treatment protocol in Ireland: reflections on the role of general practice

kildare lad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If drug addicts can get prescribed methadone then I don't see what the problem is regarding medicinal cannabis. I don't know what the objections are within the existing health system provisions for drugs.

As for recreational use, I'm not in favour of adding more drug drivers to the existing set of drunk ones. Also, given the campaigns in recent decades to get people to quit smoking, It doesn't make sense to introduce cannabis leaf.

I'd say big pharma have a big say in what gets legalised . The thing is you cant patent a plant , so they can't make money of it unless they synthesis it . There a drug I take and the company makes 2 billion a year off that one drug , could you imagine how much money they lose if there was a cure or if medical marijuana done most of the things the drug done. I'm not saying medical marijuana is the answer in a lot of cases but in some cases it is . I'd rather take a plant oils than a pill. But the option isn't there Lots of medications have side affects aswell. I'm currently changing my medication as I've been on it 6 years and I've a higher chance of getting lymphoma , and I can't be out in the sun for too long as it increase the chances of getting skin cancer, I've to get bloods done ever two months to see what my white blood count is like, and that's not from the disease that's from the medication I'm taking

TomTomTim

kildare lad wrote: »

It would be a lot more beneficial to more than 40 people here. I've crohn's disease and when I'm very sick , I can't eat , I've trouble sleeping, severe stomach cramps and go to the toilet 20 plus times a day passing blood . I used to smoke a joint and it's help with the pain, help me sleep and give me an appetite. I'd rather take the oil though if I could get it as you don't know what in half the weed you buy here. The medication I got off the doctors nearly drove me insane with insomnia.

I don't see what the governments problem is regarding medical marijuana. It should be legal to anyone who has serious medical conditions .

Ireland is an uber progressive country, something I'm no fan of, yet the only progressive thing I desire is weed legislation, yet it's not even on the table. Gay rights, feminism, abortion, all but open borders, yet I can't even smoke a joint legally.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

When you write ''then'' it does not make everything or anything you write afterwards automatically true, although that is how it is framed.
But, grand job, I have got your opinion on the matter now.

I know it doesn’t make it true, the point is that I’m suspicious of arguments for medicinal use being used as a cover for arguing for it’s recreational use. You started the thread by giving an example of the circumstances of a young girl with epilepsy.

We’re both aware of the reasons why you didn’t start a thread using Ming Flanagan as an example in spite of the fact that he’s been campaigning for decriminalisation of cannabis for decades, and he almost looks respectable in his Louis Copeland designed hemp suit -


Luke 'Ming' Flanagan wears hemp suit in the Dáil

drunkmonkey

Why doesn't she just go to the Athlone mail center they've been stockpiling it all lockdown.

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

............

Methodone use has plenty of evidence of it’s efficacy in harm reduction.

.......

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

gctest50

To add to that is the huge CPA ( Cost-per-Addict)

"But in 2009, as the country was in the grip of financial crisis and mass emigration, a massive €277m was required to treat drug addicts."

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-cost-of-drugs-crisis-has-been-1bn-over-past-five-years-34179535.html

emo72

Never had drugs myself, but it's beyond me how we are not growing fields of the stuff. We could have a huge homegrown industry of marijuana. Same with fish. Huge industry if we kept our waters to ourselves.

It's almost as if someone doesn't want us to be self sufficient. Keep us dependant on foreign corporations, like pharma! This is ludicrous.

rapul

Terrible that a little girl might suffer when it's all over a plant that should be decriminalised anyway. Her parents should look into ordering off the dark net as already mentioned, I'd chip in.

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

The headline on the article is misleading. The increased incidence of deaths were among poly substance users, as opposed to deaths which were specifically attributable to methodone use. It’s a trend that’s only increasing in Irish society, so decriminalisation of cannabis would only exacerbate an existing issue.

Just taking the numbers from one specific year isn’t going to tell anyone anything about trends -


The overall number of cases treated for problem opiate use (mainly heroin) increased between 2006 and 2015. Most recent trends indicate a concerning shift toward greater levels of poly substance use with related treatment demand (i.e. benzodiazepines) since 2007, dependence rates on over the counter and prescribed opiates such as codeine since 2008, increase in drug related deaths and the emergence of potent and potentially fatal synthetic fentanyls in 2018. Treatment data in 2013 reports that incidence of treated problem substance use among Travellers is three times that compared to the general population (523 per hundred versus 173 per 100,000), with reports in 2017 indicating increased vulnerability of this ethnic minority to problem opiate use. In 2016, the Health Protection Surveillance Centre reported that the rate of infectious diseases (human immune deficiency virus, (HIV) and hepatitis C (HCV) is declining among people who inject drugs (PWID), despite an increase in 2015 due to a reported HIV outbreak.

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

...........so decriminalisation of cannabis would only exacerbate an existing issue.

Any evidence to back that statement up ?

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

Any evidence to back that statement up ?

Yes, it’s reasonable to conclude that decriminalisation increases drug use for recreational purposes, and evidence from existing trends suggests that mixing drugs is becoming more common among users, so making cannabis more available to them exacerbates issues which exist already.

Glurrl

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

rapul

Glurrl wrote: »

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

Have you?

gctest50

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes, it’s reasonable to conclude that decriminalisation increases drug use for recreational purposes, ............

That's an opinion or some breed of a notion - not evidence

Just cos ya put a poat boards doesn't make it magically true - it might be true or maybe not

jimmycrackcorm

Gruffalux wrote: »

Do you think there is no drug driving now? There is loads of it. Not to mention the drivers hopped up to the eyeballs on anxiolytics and other legal meds.
Regulation would have to include drug driving testing just like for alcohol.

Whatever is out there now, would be multiplied if weed was legalised. It's like saying we should get rid of road speed limits because everyone is speeding anyway.

kildare lad wrote: »

I'd say big pharma have a big say in what gets legalised . The thing is you cant patent a plant , so they can't make money of it unless they synthesis it . There a drug I take and the company makes 2 billion a year off that one drug , could you imagine how much money they lose if there was a cure or if medical marijuana done most of the things the drug done. I'm not saying medical marijuana is the answer in a lot of cases but in some cases it is . I'd rather take a plant oils than a pill. But the option isn't there Lots of medications have side affects aswell. I'm currently changing my medication as I've been on it 6 years and I've a higher chance of getting lymphoma , and I can't be out in the sun for too long as it increase the chances of getting skin cancer, I've to get bloods done ever two months to see what my white blood count is like, and that's not from the disease that's from the medication I'm taking

I don't think there is any evidence that the introduction of medical marijuana is being blocked by big pharma. In fact, they'd still want to process it and package it and make an easy profit. Regulation would suit them.

TomTomTim wrote: »

Ireland is an uber progressive country, something I'm no fan of, yet the only progressive thing I desire is weed legislation, yet it's not even on the table. Gay rights, feminism, abortion, all but open borders, yet I can't even smoke a joint legally.

gctest50 wrote: »

If you count death as harm reduction


"The Health Research Board found that 113 methadone users died of an overdose  in 2011, almost double the number of heroin users. "

From here :

https://www.thejournal.ie/methadone-heroin-deaths-1281196-Jan2014/

.

I have a strong feeling that those 113 methadone users would have died for Heroin instead had they not been able to get Methadone...

One eyed Jack

gctest50 wrote: »

That's an opinion or some breed of a notion - not evidence

Just cos ya put a poat boards doesn't make it magically true - it might be true or maybe not

You asked me for evidence to back up my opinion, I provided it by showing that we can draw reasonable conclusions from looking at trends in Irish society in relation to how drugs are abused already among specific groups within the population, and even from the article you linked to in the Independent where there is also data provided focusing on specific groups within Irish society -


The figures show that the HSE spent €651m over the five years to 2013 and the Department of Health a further €169m. The total expenditure over the five years to 2013 was €1.224bn. The report says there has been an increase in expenditure over 2014 but no figure is supplied.

Detail in the report states that Merchants Quay Ireland (MQI), a national voluntary agency providing services for homeless people and for drug users in Dublin, "reported that in 2012 there were 22,475 visits to its Drug Services and 20,847 needle exchanges, with 3,639 individuals using the services, 558 of whom were new clients".

It also refers to a study of drug use in Irish prisons published in 2014 which reported that "the drugs most commonly used by the prison population were cannabis, cocaine powder and benzodiazepines."

...

Oral fluid testing for drug use in the previous 24 to 72 hours showed 4pc had used cannabis, 13pc methadone and 11pc benzodiazepines.

More an 200 prisoners said they were "doing heroin now". Among these current users, 75pc reported smoking heroin as their only method of choice, with 13pc reporting injecting and 1pc snorting as their only method.

Disturbingly, it also reports high rates of drug use among Irish teenagers, higher than in other EU states. It refers to an Irish study on "non-medical use of psychotropic prescription drugs among adolescents (aged 13 to 18 years)". It says: "The most common medication used without a prescription was sedative/anxiolytics (62pc), followed by sleeping (hypnotic) medication (43pc). The paper concluded that non-medical use of prescription drugs is commonplace among adolescents who abuse illicit drugs and that they typically use these prescription drugs for hedonic reasons."

...

The report also highlights a previously unreported huge rise in drug addiction in the Traveller community.

It states: "The number of cases among the Traveller community seeking treatment for problem drug and alcohol use increased by 163pc between 2007 and 2010.

"However, this number is likely to be under-estimated. Alcohol was the most common problem substance, while the number seeking treatment for opiates increased by 291pc.

"Traveller women reported high rates of problem opiate use and injecting behaviours. The findings present a major cultural issue and challenge to Traveller health services and, given the high level of sharing, this has implications for the delivery of needle exchange services."


Personally, I can’t say I give a fiddlers fcuk about Tarquin the webel having a sneaky toke in the conservatory, or the sweet old lady next door who uses cannabis for a placebo, or anyone else who chooses to indulge every so often to chill out and socialise, whatever, they’re unlikely to end up dead or in prison or in hospital. I give a fcuk about the people mentioned above who you’d prefer to overlook as they’re an inconvenience to the decriminalisation Utopian ideal which offers no benefit to Irish society whatsoever.

Glurrl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You asked me for evidence to back up my opinion, I provided it by showing that we can draw reasonable conclusions from looking at trends in Irish society in relation to how drugs are abused already among specific groups within the population, and even from the article you linked to in the Independent where there is also data provided focusing on specific groups within Irish society -


The figures show that the HSE spent €651m over the five years to 2013 and the Department of Health a further €169m. The total expenditure over the five years to 2013 was €1.224bn. The report says there has been an increase in expenditure over 2014 but no figure is supplied.

Detail in the report states that Merchants Quay Ireland (MQI), a national voluntary agency providing services for homeless people and for drug users in Dublin, "reported that in 2012 there were 22,475 visits to its Drug Services and 20,847 needle exchanges, with 3,639 individuals using the services, 558 of whom were new clients".

It also refers to a study of drug use in Irish prisons published in 2014 which reported that "the drugs most commonly used by the prison population were cannabis, cocaine powder and benzodiazepines."

...

Oral fluid testing for drug use in the previous 24 to 72 hours showed 4pc had used cannabis, 13pc methadone and 11pc benzodiazepines.

More an 200 prisoners said they were "doing heroin now". Among these current users, 75pc reported smoking heroin as their only method of choice, with 13pc reporting injecting and 1pc snorting as their only method.

Disturbingly, it also reports high rates of drug use among Irish teenagers, higher than in other EU states. It refers to an Irish study on "non-medical use of psychotropic prescription drugs among adolescents (aged 13 to 18 years)". It says: "The most common medication used without a prescription was sedative/anxiolytics (62pc), followed by sleeping (hypnotic) medication (43pc). The paper concluded that non-medical use of prescription drugs is commonplace among adolescents who abuse illicit drugs and that they typically use these prescription drugs for hedonic reasons."

...

The report also highlights a previously unreported huge rise in drug addiction in the Traveller community.

It states: "The number of cases among the Traveller community seeking treatment for problem drug and alcohol use increased by 163pc between 2007 and 2010.

"However, this number is likely to be under-estimated. Alcohol was the most common problem substance, while the number seeking treatment for opiates increased by 291pc.

"Traveller women reported high rates of problem opiate use and injecting behaviours. The findings present a major cultural issue and challenge to Traveller health services and, given the high level of sharing, this has implications for the delivery of needle exchange services."


Personally, I can’t say I give a fiddlers fcuk about Tarquin the webel having a sneaky toke in the conservatory, or the sweet old lady next door who uses cannabis for a placebo, or anyone else who chooses to imbibe every so often to chill out and socialise, whatever, they’re unlikely to end up dead or in prison or in hospital. I give a fcuk about the people mentioned above who you’d prefer to overlook as they’re an inconvenience to the decriminalisation Utopian ideal which offers no benefit to Irish society whatsoever.

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

Solutionking

emo72 wrote: »

Never had drugs myself, but it's beyond me how we are not growing fields of the stuff. We could have a huge homegrown industry of marijuana. Same with fish. Huge industry if we kept our waters to ourselves.

It's almost as if someone doesn't want us to be self sufficient. Keep us dependant on foreign corporations, like pharma! This is ludicrous.

Marijuana needs heat to grow, not the pissing raining and cold. Plus it is illegal. Two very good reasons why we don't have fields of it.

Fish?

One eyed Jack

Glurrl wrote: »

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

I don’t know, you’ll have to tell me because I didn’t draw any such equivalence?

I’ve been quite explicit in saying that arguments for regulation of cannabis for medicinal use are completely separate from arguments for decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational use -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Then the argument has nothing to do with decriminalisation of cannabis for medicinal purposes, it’s entirely about decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. I would support the former, I don’t support the latter.

Glurrl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t know, you’ll have to tell me because I didn’t draw any such equivalence?

I’ve been quite explicit in saying that arguments for regulation of cannabis for medicinal use are completely separate from arguments for decriminalisation of cannabis for recreational use -

I havent read all your posts and as it's a thread about medicinal use its ironically not that explicit.

Prisoners. How many were given a criminal record as a teenager for cannibas offences that fuelled thier path to prison? How many are in prison for cannibas offences and found harder drugs in there?

Teenagers, used as pawns by drugs gangs to do thier bidding, that lad in drogheda that got chopped up was 17.

Traveller women, there a broader issues in thier culture that if perhaps were addressed might lessen thier need to rely on drugs


Why make criminals out of all the people who are most vulnerable and make millionaires out of dealers on the black market?

How are you helping or protecting these people. They already have access to the drugs and underfunded support services. What's the benefit in having it as a black market?

One eyed Jack

Glurrl wrote: »

I havent read all your posts and as it's a thread about medicinal use its ironically not that explicit.

I can’t say I blame you for the confusion, but no, the thread isn’t solely about medicinal use. The OP used the example they did as a jumping off point, and only later did it become clear that they were also referring to decriminalisation for recreational use -

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not covert. I am saying openly legalise and regulate all uses. The medical issue brings the stupidity of present regulation into clear focus.

Glurrl wrote: »

Prisoners. How many were given a criminal record as a teenager for cannibas offences that fuelled thier path to prison? How many are in prison for cannibas offences and found harder drugs in there?

Teenagers, used as pawns by drugs gangs to do thier bidding, that lad in drogheda that got chopped up was 17.

Traveller women, there a broader issues in thier culture that if perhaps were addressed might lessen thier need to rely on drugs

Why make criminals out of all the people who are most vulnerable and make millionaires out of dealers on the black market?

How are you helping or protecting these people. They already have access to the drugs and underfunded support services. What's the benefit in having it as a black market?

Five minutes ago you were asking this -

Glurrl wrote: »

These are people who already use drugs. Why prioritise a prisoner who is already a drug addict over a child with a medical illness who wants to follow the law the best she can?

Now you’re trying to appear as though you give a shiny shyte about prisoners who are already drug addicts? And this is after you posted this asinine comment about the girl in the opening post -

Glurrl wrote: »

Has she tried smoking banana skins?

G’wan outta that :pac:

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Full access to medical cannabis and decriminalisation of recreational cannabis NOW.

Another few states voted to legalise it during the Election 2020, it went under the radar as;

A. Trump has taken over the media coverage
B. Theres less than 15 states now.


Absolutely laughable that the country that caused criminalization is not nearly free of it and then countries like ours are wasting resources trying to stop it and declining a revenue stream and employment opportunities.

Shows the dinosaurs we have in the Dail.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can’t say I blame you for the confusion, but no, the thread isn’t solely about medicinal use. The OP used the example they did as a jumping off point, and only later did it become clear that they were also referring to decriminalisation for recreational use -
:

Wrong again Jack, do you never tire of it? I started this thread because I saw a tweet direct from Vera Twomey and I thought WTF ...how is this woman supposed to travel to the Netherlands and increase risk of Covid exposure for her and her child when the government could keep facilitating the safety of her family and give her the child's supplies? It was actually my sole intention to bring public attention to that sole and exact case when I wrote the Op - but you do love to go around imputing what others mean and intend, left right and centre.
It came up then regarding cannabis for ordinary use - which is to be expected, naturally - and I just made it clear I am in favour of decriminalisation and regulation of cannabis in those circumstances also. So no Jack, wrong again, the OP was and remains about facilitating Ava Twomey and the decriminalisation of medical cannabis.