What the fuKk happened to Great Britain ?

PsychoPete

They invaded a few countries then got notions

Gregor Samsa

buried wrote: »

Its not a misunderstanding. The term the Great British Empire was coined from the fact he chose to refer to it as a 'Empire'. That's where 'The Great British Empire' originates from. That is the history of it. That is the fact of it. Your argument was that the Greeks coined it back in the time of ancient Greece or the Noman kings were about, a time when the island was as p!ss poor as any other small island on the fringes of nowhere.

But no one used or uses the term “Great British Empire”!!!

It was just called the “British Empire”. By everyone. You’ve just decided to change the name of the Empire for some reason!

selectamatic

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Maybe we wont use any Connaught soldiers so.

Seems to me like you'd be on the other side anyways judging by the way you spell Connacht :pac:

buried

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

But no one used or uses the term “Great British Empire”!!!

It was just called the “British Empire”. By everyone. You’ve just decided to change the name of the Empire for some reason!

Jesus f**king christ man, I didn't decide it. Your boy John Dee decided it and every other gadge after him ran with it. That's how your 'Empire' came about. Don't go blaming me just because you just found out about it. How do you mean 'everyone'? Who is 'everyone'.

completedit

One of the most extraordinary countries in this world. A nation of shopkeepers to the greatest empire the world has ever known. A hugely influential country which gave birth to the language that has become the first truly global language. All dogs have their day and Britain's is over but lived like a lion they definitely did.

Alf Veedersane

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Rubbish. The Greek cartographer and scientist Ptolemy referred to the island as “μεγάλη Βρεττανία” (megale Brettania - Great Britain) in his book Almagest from 147 AD. Interestingly enough, he referred to the island of Ireland as “μικρὰ Βρεττανία” meaning Little Britain.

Gregor Samsa

buried wrote: »

Jesus f**king christ man, I didn't decide it. Your boy John Dee decided it and every other gadge after him ran with it. That's how your 'Empire' came about. don't go blaming me just because you just found out about it. How do you mean 'everyone'? Who is 'everyone'.

Let’s be clear. John Dee coined the term “British Empire”. He did not use the term “Great British Empire”. Great Britain is the island, the British Empire was the Empire. There was no Great British Empire. This is the simple fact of the matter, and I really don’t know how to explain it in a more basic way.

I know this won’t convince you, so I’ll leave it there at that.

Quantum Erasure

Stihl waters wrote: »

The decline started in 45 after the war

That when the Roman's arrived?

Hamsterchops

Westernworld. wrote: »

What the fuKk happened to Great Britain ?

I'd say after the UK breaks up they're looking at England splitting in 2 North /South

They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing

Cheap weed from the Dutch, that's what happened + the Eaton boys taking over operations. The Dutch have always been sore since New York was not named New Amsterdam, and now finally they have got their revenge on Great Britain by selling them cheap weed laced with LSD and other sh1t that Boris & the Eaton brigade are addicted to.

I like Jack Dee, I also like Kiki Dee

sligojoek

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

That when the Roman's arrived?

What did they ever do for Britain?

Hamsterchops

Straight roads, togas, Turkish Roman baths and I Claudius..

sligojoek

Jimmy's the lad to sort them out.

Only he died last week.

RIP Geoffrey Palmer.

branie2

I don't see anything wrong with them

Graces7

completedit wrote: »

One of the most extraordinary countries in this world. A nation of shopkeepers to the greatest empire the world has ever known. A hugely influential country which gave birth to the language that has become the first truly global language. All dogs have their day and Britain's is over but lived like a lion they definitely did.

Makes me sad reading this. Thank you.

It got so overcrowded. I moved to Cornwall around 1980 but it got crowded there too... So then I went all the way up to Orkney in 1990. Only that was filling up with all the folk seeking to escape the crowds...

So I came to Ireland at the millenium… a good move. Still open spaces.

Seeing the UK on news etc and youtube items I would hardly recognise it now and would never ever return.
Hard to quantify.

Hamsterchops

Thanks for that Graces7, sad but obviously true by your experience.
Tip, the IOW is still free of crowds.

Graces7

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Thanks for that Graces7, sad but obviously true by your experience.
Tip, the IOW is still free of crowds.

Ah thanks but I am too old for any more moves! 80 is in sight...When I see the UK on news etc. I guess I just did not grow with it. But then living things change.

When is the invasion starting?

Will they be on the 8am ferry or the 8pm?

whisky_galore

Aegir wrote: »

What armour?

A small collection of apcs backed up by Collins' armoured car.

Wibbs

completedit wrote: »

A nation of shopkeepers to the greatest empire the world has ever known.

Actually the "nation of shopkeepers" bit was as much a compliment(possibly by Napoleon, but the jury's out) as anything. That their empire was built on commerce. All long lasting empires are. Rome's straight roads and huge sea ports were as much if not more to do with trade than the military. Though Britain's empire didn't last very long. That said England's rate of progress from a piss poor rain soaked island on the edge of Europe at the time of Elisabeth the 1st to the world power a few centuries later is bloody impressive. At the time of Lizzie the King of Spain's entertainment budget would have come close to swamping her military one. The speed at which they lost it is equally if negatively impressive. Though the Spanish, Portuguese and French lost theirs just as rapidly. China is the only one that kept ans still has hers.

A hugely influential country which gave birth to the language that has become the first truly global language

Well the language going global is more to do with America and latterly the internet which was driven by mostly American anglophones.

Feisar

I thought WW2 was the beginning of the end.

A superpower before the war, not so afterwards.
Principles like self determination don't really congruent with the idea of an empire.
The death of industry.

Wibbs

I suppose the only way to sustain an empire is to keep it as local as possible, the edges usually fall first. Then make it inclusive and advantageous to the locals you're trying to add. Rome figured that out. Show up to some place, kick the crap out of the local military, then exchange mud huts for villas and baths and encourage the newly vanquished to think of themselves as Roman and give them the opportunity of full citizenship they have to work for. The European empires in the era of colonisation didn't do that(and they were fighting each other). France kinda tried it, but very half heartedly. England very much didn't. The Germans in WW2 could well have won if they had.

Dyr

whisky_galore wrote: »

A small collection of apcs backed up by Collins' armoured car.

Just waiting for the tax disk in the post then we'll steamroller 'em

ancapailldorcha

Their ultimate problem is that they've never had to confront their own history. Their only really shown WW2 as something that they won with some vague references to keep calm and carry on/stiff upper lip.

In reality, they had huge pools of resources in the Empire from hundreds of millions of Indians to steel and other precious metals but it's the former narrative they've swallowed so that's that. Battles like Roarke's Drift, Khartoum and Isandlwana are shown as brave British souls being overwhelmed by savage natives. They're always Robin Hood or Del Boy Trotter, or David vs Goliath.

They've never really had a serious defeat. As with most Empires, the British one was threadbare and once London took a hammering it fell apart but that made no difference to your average Brit. Contrast that with the Germans who seem to be well aware of their own past and have been forced to deal with it as few other Imperial powers have and seem to be all the better for it.

They've never accepted that England/GB has gone from top tier power to middling global power/top tier European power and until reality teaches them that the hard way they'll keep indulging in all sorts of silly fantasies.

byronbay2

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They've never accepted that England/GB has gone from top tier power to middling global power/top tier European power and until reality teaches them that the hard way they'll keep indulging in all sorts of silly fantasies.

I was just thinking about that last night, listening to Tories talking about how "Great" Britain will be after Brexit. Can they really believe that? While in the EU, Britain could pretend it was still the "Bossman" of Europe but reality is about to bite. Poor little Britain, all on it's own against NAFTA, The EU and now the new Asian Bloc of 11 countries. The end really is nigh and Scotland will be wanting out very soon!

Wibbs

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Their ultimate problem is that they've never had to confront their own history. Their only really shown WW2 as something that they won with some vague references to keep calm and carry on/stiff upper lip.

In reality, they had huge pools of resources in the Empire from hundreds of millions of Indians to steel and other precious metals but it's the former narrative they've swallowed so that's that. Battles like Roarke's Drift, Khartoum and Isandlwana are shown as brave British souls being overwhelmed by savage natives. They're always Robin Hood or Del Boy Trotter, or David vs Goliath.

True enough. Add in their heirarchcial class system and how distant(and generally admired, even fawned over) their rulers are to the "peasants"

They've never really had a serious defeat. As with most Empires, the British one was threadbare and once London took a hammering it fell apart but that made no difference to your average Brit. Contrast that with the Germans who seem to be well aware of their own past and have been forced to deal with it as few other Imperial powers have and seem to be all the better for it.

Oh they've had a few serious defeats and a load of very close run things, but their propaganda twists things, as propaganda will. Remember the Dunkirk Spirit!! We've just been utterly fcuked up by a smaller force, run, run away!! I mean they'll go on about remember Agincourt!! yet it was one of their few victories in the 100 years war and they lost it overall.

The Germans being forced to deal with their past has had an effect of course, though at this stage they really should take off the sack cloth(and most have). Plus the Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians and Dutch who also had huge empires(and all could be as bad or worse than the English) never had that self examination and yet today don't think in the same jingoistic near deluded way as many in Britain still do. The French have had some internal discourse on that sorta thing, but again they're not as jingoistic as the Brits can be.

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

True enough. Add in their heirarchcial class system and how distant(and generally admired, even fawned over) their rulers are to the "peasants"

It's not even so much admiration (except for Johnson) as the pervasion of the idea that a working class person just can't be trusted to run the country.

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh they've had a few serious defeats and a load of very close run things, but their propaganda twists things, as propaganda will. Remember the Dunkirk Spirit!! We've just been utterly fcuked up by a smaller force, run, run away!! I mean they'll go on about remember Agincourt!! yet it was one of their few victories in the 100 years war and they lost it overall.

Ah but the war was won. Dunkirk was but a setback. I don't think they lost the Hundred Years' War per se. I mean, Charles VII did recover all of France's territory save for Brittany (which was a semi-independent duchy), Burgundy (same) and the Pale of Calais that the English kept until the reign of Henry VIII.

Henry V died of possibly dysentry at Meaux and his son was probably the truest Christian ever to have reigned. He just cheerfully suggested to a French diplomat that the English could just return Maine. Queue les Francais now demanding this concession as a prerequsite to continuing negotiations. Henry VI is just a lovely chap whose kindness is rewarded with betrayal and deposition. Sad really.

Wibbs wrote: »

The Germans being forced to deal with their past has had an effect of course, though at this stage they really should take off the sack cloth(and most have). Plus the Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians and Dutch who also had huge empires(and all could be as bad or worse than the English) never had that self examination and yet today don't think in the same jingoistic near deluded way as many in Britain still do. The French have had some internal discourse on that sorta thing, but again they're not as jingoistic as the Brits can be.

I've never met a German with a sackcloth but yeah, just a point that you can look at the warts of your nation's history without cringing or being obliged to suffer being disrespected as a result, usually by some American twit.

Agreeed with the Belgians, Dutch, etc... The Italians did flip and hang Mussolini so there's that.

sbsquarepants

Wibbs wrote: »

but again they're not as jingoistic as the Brits can be.

Is anyone?


The yanks come close sometimes, but even they haven't really tried to kid themselves that the countries they bomb and plunder actually loved them and looked up up to them. They view themselves (deludedly) as a kind of stern but ultimately fair police force.

The brits i think see themselves as some divinely ordained ruling class. There is a genuine belief among large numbers of them that they are simply better than other people / races. There's a rude awakening around the corner for them and to be perfectly honest with you it's long overdue!

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's not even so much admiration (except for Johnson) as the pervasion of the idea that a working class person just can't be trusted to run the country.

Yes, the Brits would only ever vote for a good old fashioned Etonion, Like Theresa May, John Major or Margaret Thatcher :rolleyes:

For someone who lives there, you really have no idea about the place whatsoever.

_Brian

Westernworld. wrote: »

I'd say after the UK breaks up they're looking at England splitting in 2 North /South


They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing

Britain was never “great”

It was an empire built on slaves and the pillaging of countries they subjugated. Once these actions became unacceptable the British were left to their own devices and realised they have nothing to offer to themselves.

Wibbs

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is anyone?


The yanks come close sometimes, but even they haven't really tried to kid themselves that the countries they bomb and plunder actually loved them and looked up up to them. They view themselves (deludedly) as a kind of stern but ultimately fair police force.

That can be worse. The man who is convinced he's right and morally superior is not to be trusted. I would say American culture has taken over the imperial crown and can be just as if not more jingoistic about it. Outside of their oil wars in mostly a "soft" fashion through their media and propaganda within it. All imperial powers do this. We're better, they're barbarians in need of civilising into the [insert empire here] way. If they have stuff we want of course. The Chinese do similar, though generally more subtly. Then again they've been an imperial power for the guts of two thousand years so have practiced success in it.