Solicitors Fees in 2020

jizzyjeff

I searched this forum and found a few posts about solicitors fees, though most are 3+ years old.

What are standard solicitor's fees on property purchases. I've seen 1% mentioned in a few places, though it seems ridiculous to charge based on property price vs an hourly rate.

Has anyone any experience of purchasing a property in the past year or 2, and if so, what type of fees did you pay?

Cheers

pooch90

That 1% is most likely the reference to Stamp Duty which you normally pay through your solicitor.
From what I've seen most pay 4500-7000 for solicitors. Some people get their wills done at the same time.

dubrov

jizzyjeff wrote:

Has anyone any experience of purchasing a property in the past year or 2, and if so, what type of fees did you pay?

The range 2 years ago in dublin was 900-2000 plus vat plus outlays (VAT, registration fees etc.)

Polkadotpjs

jizzyjeff wrote: »

I searched this forum and found a few posts about solicitors fees, though most are 3+ years old.

What are standard solicitor's fees on property purchases. I've seen 1% mentioned in a few places, though it seems ridiculous to charge based on property price vs an hourly rate.

Has anyone any experience of purchasing a property in the past year or 2, and if so, what type of fees did you pay?

Cheers

Do a google search for solicitors with fixed professional fees for conveyancing in your area. Some do a rate of 950 + VAT + outlays which is really the best deal you can get. Obviously do your research and check out their reviews too.

thebiggestjim

I just paid 1800 + VAT + Outlay

cr-07

Also interested in this. Anyone who has gotten a good solicitor recommendation in the Galway City area please PM me, looking for one who has a reasonable price. ��

duffysfarm

If someone tried to charge a percentage cost i would run a mile
I think somewhere round the €1k plus vat is reasonable

Pawwed Rig

There are a fair few fixed charges that solicitors will include in their fees so the rates. Call 10 solicitors get a price from each and go with the cheapest. Conveyancing isn't difficult.

Samuel T. Cogley

The issue with the cheapest will be they make their money on volume and will be more difficult to contact and will be less inclined to deal with any difficulties.

Duke of Url

Bought a new build, solicitor time and communications were 1600. Total was 6k

Geuze

jizzyjeff wrote: »

I searched this forum and found a few posts about solicitors fees, though most are 3+ years old.

What are standard solicitor's fees on property purchases. I've seen 1% mentioned in a few places, though it seems ridiculous to charge based on property price vs an hourly rate.

Has anyone any experience of purchasing a property in the past year or 2, and if so, what type of fees did you pay?

Cheers

Recent purchase: 950 + VAT + outlays

Recent sale = 1200 + VAT + outlays

goingagain

Was recently quoted 1.5% , looked around and most other places were giving fixed prices.

I went with someone who came recommended at 1,500 to well and 2,500 to buy , which was less that half the price based on the 1.5%.

CarMc

I recently sold and bought, I shopped around and got quotes from about 5 or 6 local solicitors, all came in at similar prices:

2500 + Vat to complete the sale of my house

1500 + Vat to complete the purchase of my new house

The difference is they have to prepare the contracts for one and just review them for the other.

dev_ire

I would recommend the call 10 and go with cheapest approach, I went with 1750 + vat + outlays and they have been a nightmare.

JimmyVik

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There are a fair few fixed charges that solicitors will include in their fees so the rates. Call 10 solicitors get a price from each and go with the cheapest. Conveyancing isn't difficult.

Thats what I did.
Going with one who is €900 + VAT + outlay.
For buying house in Co. Dublin.
Not selling any.

Claw Hammer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There are a fair few fixed charges that solicitors will include in their fees so the rates. Call 10 solicitors get a price from each and go with the cheapest. Conveyancing isn't difficult.

Conveyancing can be quite difficult. Even straightforward transactions can be time consuming and messy. It is not like buying a t shirt in a department store.
Buyer beware rules. There can be huge difficulties in the future if something goes wrong. An inefficient solicitor not stamping the deed, not registering the title properly, not detecting a restrictive covenant, a planning breach or some other title issue. It is better to get a recommendation and deal with a known reliable solicitor and pay the price.

Pawwed Rig

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Conveyancing can be quite difficult. Even straightforward transactions can be time consuming and messy. It is not like buying a t shirt in a department store

That is why you pay a solicitor. I do not need a solicitors help to buy a Tshirt as there is no training or skill needed to do that. A solicitor will have nothing arise on a conveyance that they cannot deal with. In fact the majority of the work will be done by a trainee with the actual solicitor there just to make sure it is done right.

nerrad01

Im buying at the moment, paying 2300 all in

Claw Hammer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is why you pay a solicitor. I do not need a solicitors help to buy a Tshirt as there is no training or skill needed to do that. A solicitor will have nothing arise on a conveyance that they cannot deal with. In fact the majority of the work will be done by a trainee with the actual solicitor there just to make sure it is done right.

You can bring a bad t shirt back. You can't give a house back. Solicitors sometimes have to get advice from another solicitor or a barrister in relation to a conveyance where a novel issue arises. If a mistake is made, it is the solicitor who is sued , not the trainee.
Like everything else, whether it is a hairdresser, mechanic or plasterer going for the cheapest is not always best. It is worth paying more for a known reputation.

bikeman1

I would be budgeting in the region of €1,500 to €2,000 when purchasing. This is their fee excluding VAT plus and outlay.

Also consider the location, I had a place about 10/15 minutes from my work at the time. The bank “lost” the paperwork that was sent into them. I flew over to the solicitors and signed again without much hassle.

Pawwed Rig

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Like everything else, whether it is a hairdresser, mechanic or plasterer going for the cheapest is not always best.

For conveyancing I would disagree and would equate it with asking a mechanic to change your oil or getting a short back and sides. We can agree to differ though

Claw Hammer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

For conveyancing I would disagree and would equate it with asking a mechanic to change your oil or getting a short back and sides. We can agree to differ though

Have you ever carried out a conveyance? Have you ever given a haircut? Have you ever changed oil in a vehicle? Competent people can easily do it but the incompetent can cause a disaster.

cubatahavana

1750 plus VAT plus outlay for both sale and purchase (each). Fantastic solicitor

Nijmegen

I paid €1,700 plus €200 in office outlays and then VAT, so €2,362 overall. And it was a long ass process that dragged on. I have used the same solicitor on a previous purchase and a remortgage in between and excellent service for a fixed price, with known additional costs if things spiral - eg I had issued contracts to a buyer who pulled out, so effectively had to prepare two contracts that drove the price up a bit. But all flagged ahead of time.

There are some solicitors who specialise in conveyancing and are very efficient. As well as looking for a fixed price you should look for references or reviews to ensure they will move it quickly for you. Not just take your uncle's mate in town (I remember we dealt with a couple based in Dublin, us also in Dublin, who used a solicitor away down their home location, and it was a pain in the ass to get anything to move and also to physically get things done...)

You then have other costs typically from €50 to €300 like: Commissioners fees, Property Registration Authority fees (in our case on a new build: ownership fee, mortgage fee, fee to open a new folio, copy folio and filed plan fee), law search fee, fee for completion of first registrations (if applicable), same day electronic funds transfer (to get the keys). And then stamp duty.

Mad_maxx

my solicitor charges 1500 + vat + outlay , she is worth it too , i once employed a solicitor for 900 + vat , he had not a clue

brisan

pooch90 wrote: »

That 1% is most likely the reference to Stamp Duty which you normally pay through your solicitor.
From what I've seen most pay 4500-7000 for solicitors. Some people get their wills done at the same time.

Anyone who would pay 4500-7000 for a conveyancing solicitor needs their head examined

Pawwed Rig

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

For conveyancing I would disagree and would equate it with asking a mechanic to change your oil or getting a short back and sides. We can agree to differ though

And yet machanics and barbers sometimes balls up what you think should be simple.

chops018

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There are a fair few fixed charges that solicitors will include in their fees so the rates. Call 10 solicitors get a price from each and go with the cheapest. Conveyancing isn't difficult.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. Full disclosure, I'm a Solicitor who deals primarily with property.

Once you've done a few from start to finish you will know the process and main points to hit, but as another poster said above it's when something pops up with planning or a boundary issue on a map is when things get complicated. Nothing that usually cannot be overcome but at the same time involves work and problem solving.

I think conveyancing is underpaid fees wise in a lot of places to be honest. As one poster above said, it's a big enough transaction, the biggest of most people's lives. Get it done right. If it's done wrong that's why Solicitor's have PI. I don't know how firms do conveyances for €800-900 a pop. If it's a complicated unregistered title, with say a probate element or a buying out the freehold from the council element, along with planning issues, dealing with the clients bank, that's easily up to 10-15 hours work and then you've the post closing tasks. If it was billed like litigation at say €250 per hour that's €3,500 - €4,000 for a complicated conveyance that you might only get €800 - 900 for and the firms that charge these might not put the proper effort they should in and just want to get it closed and move on to the next one.

Even if it's a straightforward freehold unencumbered title you still need to review, as purchaser's solicitor:

- Contracts.
- Replies to Reqs.
- Folio: ensure registered owner is the vendor, ensure no burdens registered that would adversely affect the purchaser's ownership, if so seek the instrument for same and any other instruments appearing on the folio. Check the map and make sure nothing glaringly obvious there and ensure boundaries look correct and access is ok. Advise client to get their own surveyor to ensure boundaries are ok on the ground and that they are happy.
- Do a pre-contract planning search. Anything that shows up that affects the property that is not with the title given by the vendor's solicitor needs to be provided along with certificates of compliance with planning and building regs.
- Check the planning with the title docs. Ensure there's certs of compliance with same. Ensure there are letters of compliance from the council for certain conditions such as financial contributions.
- Declaration of Identity to ensure all the services servicing the property are within the boundaries of the folio being bought, if not get appropriate easements put in place so they can be maintained. Also get clients surveyors input here as they are invaluable as to what is on the ground.
- Ensure letter re roads and services abutting the property from the council confirming same are in charge of the council.
- Ensure taxes up to date: LPT, NPPR.
- Ensure BER and advisory report given.
- Appropriate declarations on closing: s. 72, Family Home declaration, declaration re Planning and no other developments carried out other than disclosed, declaration re any burdens on the title confirming don't adversely affect.
- Draft purchase deed for closing.
- Deal with purchaser's lender and drawdown if borrowing, qualifying title if required.
- Stamping the deed.
- Registering the deed.


And that's just a straightforward purchase. Gets more complicated if any planning issues, if management company involved, if its a new build there's other matters involved such as booklets of title, indemnities etc. If the property has a tenant in situ, if the vendor is a company there's further things need to be sought, if buying from a receiver, if buying from an LPR - all might need further docs and evidence.

Ensure you're putting in special conditions to protect the purchaser - subject to loan clause, subject to them selling their own property.

So yeah, conveyancing isn't easy, even straightforward ones above it takes time to review everything and ensure it is in order. Most of the time it is not in order at all when contracts are issued and pre-contract queries have to be raised and dealt with to get it in order and these can take weeks to satisfactorily resolve, even over minor things.

If a Solicitor doesn't do all these checks properly and at least try and sort them out pre-contract and if they cannot be sorted then they have to qualify title with the bank and make the purchaser aware of the issues and that when reselling the same issues will pop up unless sorted then they leave their PI open to be being sued by the purchaser and the bank (if there's one involved and it will affect their security).

€800 - 900 fees are 3-4 hours professional time and work. No way all of the above fits in that time. If it does you're not looking at everything properly in my opinion.

Mad_maxx

i dont think conveyancing fees are that expensive , certainly cheaper than paying a consultant in the health sector 250 euro for half an hour , a conveyancy job usually involves a good few phone calls to the client , never mind other parties , not to mention the hours involved reviewing both title and other important detail

Nijmegen

I agree with chops018, it does take more than €800-900 work. Although the bigger question we should be asking is why a common transaction needs to involve quite so much legal make-work that's billable at €250 an hour, but that's a discussion for another day (and one the IMF couldn't get us to properly reform on when they were here!)

It is worth shopping around, get a good price but always be of the opinion that you get what you pay for and check references.

DublinCJM

Mine was 2,000 for selling and 2,500 for buying (ex VAT and outlays). They were really good, prompt, responsive, proactive with updates and lovely to deal with.

Heard some horror stories about not being able to contact solicitors, no calls returned, no progress updates etc.

So, was happy to pay maybe a little extra knowing that I was being kept up to date, and that I could get hold of them if I needed to.

Paddigol

chops018 wrote: »

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. Full disclosure, I'm a Solicitor who deals primarily with property.

...

Excellent post. I did a bit of conveyancing in my time and not a hope in hell would I go back to it. Almost zero appreciation for your work from clients. While almost always completely ignorant of what is involved, their sole focus will be on race to the bottom price wise. I just can't understand how firms can charge 3/4 hours rate, provide a proper service, and make any money. Nearly every other professional in the process make more money with less risk - surveyors, estate agents, banks, insurers.

The liability taken on by solicitors for even the most basic conveyance, plus the weighting it puts on your professional indemnity insurance premium... just not worth it.

KilOit

Mortgage switch all in €1100

Samuel T. Cogley

KilOit wrote: »

Mortgage switch all in €1100

With a mortgage switch I'd defer to the cheapness argument.

CarMc

chops018 wrote: »

- Contracts.
- Replies to Reqs.
- Folio: ensure registered owner is the vendor, ensure no burdens registered that would adversely affect the purchaser's ownership, if so seek the instrument for same and any other instruments appearing on the folio. Check the map and make sure nothing glaringly obvious there and ensure boundaries look correct and access is ok. Advise client to get their own surveyor to ensure boundaries are ok on the ground and that they are happy.
- Do a pre-contract planning search. Anything that shows up that affects the property that is not with the title given by the vendor's solicitor needs to be provided along with certificates of compliance with planning and building regs.
- Check the planning with the title docs. Ensure there's certs of compliance with same. Ensure there are letters of compliance from the council for certain conditions such as financial contributions.
- Declaration of Identity to ensure all the services servicing the property are within the boundaries of the folio being bought, if not get appropriate easements put in place so they can be maintained. Also get clients surveyors input here as they are invaluable as to what is on the ground.
- Ensure letter re roads and services abutting the property from the council confirming same are in charge of the council.
- Ensure taxes up to date: LPT, NPPR.
- Ensure BER and advisory report given.
- Appropriate declarations on closing: s. 72, Family Home declaration, declaration re Planning and no other developments carried out other than disclosed, declaration re any burdens on the title confirming don't adversely affect.
- Draft purchase deed for closing.
- Deal with purchaser's lender and drawdown if borrowing, qualifying title if required.
- Stamping the deed.
- Registering the deed.

€800 - 900 fees are 3-4 hours professional time and work. No way all of the above fits in that time. If it does you're not looking at everything properly in my opinion.

But it's never 800-900, it's Fee plus Outlays and all of the items in your list above are in the outlays, I was charged for each item and each document separately in the outlays. This was all clearly quoted beforehand but there were some extras as the buyers solicitor requested additional closing declarations. But they were added to the final bill. I'm not knocking what they are paid and I know I paid 1250 plus outlays for both sale and purchase but just saying no one is getting away with a 800-900 bill for a conveyancing solicitor.

housemurf99

New build in Maynooth. A & B solictors in neighbouring town. C in Maynooth. Land Registry charges on top of quotes.

A €1500+ vat+outlays
B €1200+ vat +outlays
C €1000+vat +outlays

stampydmonkey

€1500 fees and approx €1200 for land reg and other bits for a purchase. Approx €2700 ex vat. At the start of the process so no idea if they are good or not. Came highly recommended so we'll see

chops018

CarMc wrote: »

But it's never 800-900, it's Fee plus Outlays and all of the items in your list above are in the outlays, I was charged for each item and each document separately in the outlays. This was all clearly quoted beforehand but there were some extras as the buyers solicitor requested additional closing declarations. But they were added to the final bill. I'm not knocking what they are paid and I know I paid 1250 plus outlays for both sale and purchase but just saying no one is getting away with a 800-900 bill for a conveyancing solicitor.

I was talking about professional fees being €800-900. Which is what the Solicitor/Firm actually makes from the work put in. I know there are some firms that do conveyances for this kind of professional fee. It is simply too low for the work involved in my opinion, if it is done right. Anyone can take a quick look at the contract, folio/map, not raise any queries, get you in to sign and pay the closing monies and then pay stamp duty and register the deed. However, a proper review of everything and raising proper queries will take much more than €800-900 worth.

Nothing can be done about outlay, they will be the same everywhere, or at least should be. So obviously professional fees, VAT, stamp duty, land registry fees and other outlay will see the bill go up to nearly €5,000 for most standard purchases.

lawred2

pooch90 wrote: »

That 1% is most likely the reference to Stamp Duty which you normally pay through your solicitor.
From what I've seen most pay 4500-7000 for solicitors. Some people get their wills done at the same time.

4500 - 7000 for conveyancing?

That's absurd

chops018

lawred2 wrote: »

4500 - 7000 for conveyancing?

That's absurd

If he meant all in then it's not.

For example let's take a purchase of €300,000.00

Professional Fee: €1,500.
Post, stationary etc.: €25.
VAT at 21%: €320.25.
PRAI Registration of Transfer: €700.
PRAI Registration of Mortgage: €130.
PRAI Folio & File Plan: €40.
Searches (estimate): €250.
Commissioners Fees: €12.
SDMT Bank Charge: €25.
Stamp Duty at 1%: €3,000.

Total = €6,002.25.

That's all just off the top of my head. Could be one or two things for outlay that I missed!

Easily builds up. The stamp duty usually being the highest.

brisan

chops018 wrote: »

If he meant all in then it's not.

For example let's take a purchase of €300,000.00

Professional Fee: €1,500.
Post, stationary etc.: €25.
VAT at 21%: €320.25.
PRAI Registration of Transfer: €700.
PRAI Registration of Mortgage: €130.
PRAI Folio & File Plan: €40.
Searches (estimate): €250.
Commissioners Fees: €12.
SDMT Bank Charge: €25.
Stamp Duty at 1%: €3,000.

Total = €6,002.25.

That's all just off the top of my head. Could be one or two things for outlay that I missed!

Easily builds up. The stamp duty usually being the highest.

Not sure stamp duty can be considered solicitors fees
He just collects it and passes it on

chops018

brisan wrote: »

Not sure stamp duty can be considered solicitors fees
He just collects it and passes it on

Yes, agreed. I think that's where people get mixed up. They hear "€6,000" solicitors fees for a house purchase. When in reality the Solicitors professional fees which they/the firm get from the work are more likely €1,000-1,500.

Anything else is outlay payable to third parties or the revenue (stamp duty).

Corruptedmorals

A good solicitor is worth the extra. Our sale was horrific. It took 8 months. Every step of the way our solicitor was pressuring the other side for updates even without being prompted, had endless amounts of non-standard sale things to deal with such as boundary issues, map issues, title issues, bank's legal team. He pulled the sale over the line and was always very prompt with his responses and updates. In the end he didn't even charge for all of the extra time that went into the sale. I couldn't imagine going with the cheapest one without any recommendation. We had no reason to expect that our sale would be anything other than bog standard.

Dolbhad

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

A good solicitor is worth the extra. Our sale was horrific. It took 8 months. Every step of the way our solicitor was pressuring the other side for updates even without being prompted, had endless amounts of non-standard sale things to deal with such as boundary issues, map issues, title issues, bank's legal team. He pulled the sale over the line and was always very prompt with his responses and updates. In the end he didn't even charge for all of the extra time that went into the sale. I couldn't imagine going with the cheapest one without any recommendation. We had no reason to expect that our sale would be anything other than bog standard.

Our solicitor has been like that and a god send to us. I really feel we wouldn’t have secured the house we have and gotten it over the line if we had used someone else. And like that extra work was involved and still at the fee quoted.

I’ve always said you don’t necessarily have to go with the most expensive but I wouldn’t go with the cheapest. Anything less than €1200 if your on a major area like Cork or Dublin I would expect the solicitor to work off volume rather than time.

L1011

950 inc VAT all in, including outlays for a mortgage switch; albeit with the solicitor who handled the original purchase and hence has quite a lot of the required stuff already to hand.

This would be considered a 'cheap' solicitor locally however they handled my original purchase absolutely fine including physically dropping off some docs that would probably have been DXed otherwise to ensure the sale closed on the right day.