Housing Department: New plan to end direct provision is unworkable

Kivaro

While the concept to provide asylum seekers with their own housing within 3 months of arriving in Ireland was a head scratcher to many of us, finally we have officials coming out and actually telling us what we already know: "the new plan to end direct provision is unrealistic and unworkable".

According to the Sunday Business Post this morning (behind a paywall): the Department of Housing states that ‘untenable’ own-door proposal would drive up rents and lead to legal challenges. The department also stated that this new plan would result in greater levels of homelessness in Ireland and would exasperate rental inflation.

When they talk about homelessness in this context, it will not be asylum seekers being homeless, but Irish people will be made homeless in order to accommodate asylum seekers within the 3 month time frame. So with this new plan we will have a situation of African and Pakistani asylum seekers flying in from London and Paris after they fail in their asylum applications in those countries, and then provided with housing with 3 months of arriving at Dublin airport. One would have to wonder if Irish people who become homeless in the future could apply for asylum in Ireland in order to avail of this incomprehensible housing opportunity?

The Green Party's Roderic O' Gorman has already warned the country that this new Direct Provision plan will happen within the current government's lifetime, as it was a key commitment from the Green Party within their programme for government.

Fair play to the Department of Housing for actually coming out and stating what those living in the real world already knew; that the plan to provide asylum seekers with their own housing within 3 months of flying into Dublin airport is nonsensical. We can now only hope that common sense will prevail on the direct provision topic going forward.

Eric Cartman

Thank christ somebody saw sense and wasnt just blinded by virtue signalling

suicide_circus

Can't say i'm surprised that housing officials are coming out with this. While the plan to give asylum seekers their own gaff is nice on paper, it looks like not much thought went into it. Will be interesting to see how Roderic O' Gorman responds.

Donald Trump

such a load of bollix

Asylum seekers!!!!

I'd allow for those granted asylum to join the queue with the natives

smurgen

I think the next step needs to be processing of asylum seekers much much faster. The DP service helps no one.

Richard Hillman

There are 7000 people in direct provision. How are they going to magic up homes for 7000 people and then claim that it hasn't bumped anybody down on a housing list? Even if a Secret utopian Town was found in Ireland with homes for 7000 people, people are still going to get bumped on the list.

It ain't going to be the folks in Direct Provision that will be in the homeless shelters, hotels. They are going straight to council housing. It's a fact. O'Gorman saying anything otherwise is complete folly.

There is a lot of apartment building going on right now with social housing specific being added on. It won't be long to work out where those apartments are going to go to.

It's as if the left wing parties are just teeing it up for the rise of true right wing politics.

biko

In most countries the Green party have for some reason become the "open borders" party. I guess it's because environmental issues isn't a strong pull enough on the young radicals.
Ireland, UK, Germany, Sweden - all the greens want unrestricted immigration.

In Ireland the Greens have 50,000 members. Each of them could easily take in and house immigrants in their own homes, with no support from the state.


Edit, it's only 5000 members, not 50,000

smurgen

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There are 7000 people in direct provision. How are they going to magic up homes for 7000 people and then claim that it hasn't bumped anybody down on a housing list? Even if a Secret utopian Town was found in Ireland with homes for 7000 people, people are still going to get bumped on the list.

It ain't going to be the folks in Direct Provision that will be in the homeless shelters, hotels. They are going straight to council housing. It's a fact. O'Gorman saying anything otherwise is complete folly.

There is a lot of apartment building going on right now with social housing specific being added on. It won't be long to work out where those apartments are going to go to.

It's as if the left wing parties are just teeing it up for the rise of true right wing politics.

Or right wing parties guaranteeing their mates make cash no matter what the outcome. Some of the main DP owners in Kerry are FG affiliated. If they start getting HAP payments then the property companies are delighted. Either way the tax payer gets bad value for money.

jd1983

smurgen wrote: »

I think the next step needs to be processing of asylum seekers much much faster. The DP service helps no one.

I'm not sure that's true, going by text messages published by village magazine, they seem like a big help to unscrupulous ****ers who look to profit from misery.

suicide_circus

smurgen wrote: »

I think the next step needs to be processing of asylum seekers much much faster. The DP service helps no one.

Faster process means more people denied asylum due to fewer appeals. This wont sit well with the green party and the lobby/NGO industry.

Annasopra

biko wrote: »

In most countries the Green party have for some reason become the "open borders" party. I guess it's because environmental issues isn't a strong pull enough on the young radicals.
Ireland, UK, Germany, Sweden - all the greens want unrestricted immigration.

In Ireland the Greens have 50,000 members. Each of them could easily take in and house immigrants in their own homes, with no support from the state.

No. Its about 5,000

TomTomTim

smurgen wrote: »

Or right wing parties guaranteeing their mates make cash no matter what the outcome. Some of the main DP owners in Kerry are FG affiliated. If they start getting HAP payments then the property companies are delighted. Either way the tax payer gets bad value for money.

There's no right wing parties in Ireland. There's left and there's further left.

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

I think the next step needs to be processing of asylum seekers much much faster. The DP service helps no one.

Saw a lovely story in the Galway Triubue this week. An Algerian in court for a range of offences. Says he has previous too.
And hes 6 years in Direct Provision. So despite previous convictions they still didnt just fast track him on a plane out of here.

He'll probably be allowed to stay despite the convictions since hes here so long.

Complete joke.

biko

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. Its about 5,000

Sorry, yes 5000 of course.

a membership that's surged from 400 to almost 5000 - twitter.com/greenparty_ie/status/1304441870295195648?s=20

Goes to show how a fringe party still gets to decide on national policies that affect millions of regular people.

smurgen

TomTomTim wrote: »

There's no right wing parties in Ireland. There's left and there's further left.

Ah yes all those left leaning countries through the globe are up to their eyes in SPV's and charitable trusts used to shift profits and reduce tax liabilities of mega corporations in that typical leftist way.


https://twitter.com/thecurrency/status/1330440885956472832?s=19

Patrick2010

If they are moved out of direct provision there are only two choices, joining the housing list or being put top of the list. As the commitment is to end DP you have to assume they will get housing priority.

suicide_circus

https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-crisis-waiting-list-4490533-Feb2019/

With the economy floored by the response to covid-19 i can only imagine that demand for social housing will increase. Current housing waiting lists are years and years long. Housing asylum seekers within 3 months would necessarily involve them jumping the queue ahead of people who have been waiting years, i'm not sure that could be morally justifiable.

ExMachina1000

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-crisis-waiting-list-4490533-Feb2019/

With the economy floored by the response to covid-19 i can only imagine that demand for social housing will increase. Current housing waiting lists are years and years long. Housing asylum seekers within 3 months would necessarily involve them jumping the queue ahead of people who have been waiting years, i'm not sure that could be morally justifiable.

That has already and is already happened around the country.
Complain about it? Labelled a racist

ElJeffe

smurgen wrote: »

Or right wing parties guaranteeing their mates make cash no matter what the outcome. Some of the main DP owners in Kerry are FG affiliated. If they start getting HAP payments then the property companies are delighted. Either way the tax payer gets bad value for money.

What right wing parties?

Bubbaclaus

smurgen wrote: »

Ah yes all those left leaning countries through the globe are up to their eyes in SPV's and charitable trusts used to shift profits and reduce tax liabilities of mega corporations in that typical leftist way.


https://twitter.com/thecurrency/status/1330440885956472832?s=19

The article is paywalled. What do they mean by "complex accounting" exactly?

smurgen

ElJeffe wrote: »

What right wing parties?

Fine Gael are in my eyes.

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

Fine Gael are in my eyes.

Off to specsavers it is with you so

Gatling

biko wrote: »

Sorry, yes 5000 of course.

Also add not every asylum seeker are in dp we could have similar numbers who currently are not in dp

Jinglejangle69

smurgen wrote: »

Fine Gael are in my eyes.

Ia there any thread where you don't try shoehorn FG into to have a rant about?

suicide_circus

smurgen wrote: »

Fine Gael are in my eyes.

Centre Left =/= Right Wing

smellyoldboot

There's a much quicker way to end Direct Provision and it could be implemented tomorrow if we had the balls: Any waster that shows up without their documents in order or where Ireland could not possibly be the first safe country they landed in, straight out the fcukin door with them. No room for free-loaders, lifetime dolers , criminals and rapists here.

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ia there any thread where you don't try shoehorn FG into to have a rant about?

Is there any FG post you're not monitoring to police and spring to their defence?

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

Is there any FG post you're not monitoring to police and spring to their defence?

Defend them on what, ‘right wing’ isnt an insult, we wish FG were actually right wing and would do the things younger leo believed in, we lament you being wrong , not defending FG, if anything were insulting them for not living up to their older principals

smurgen

suicide_circus wrote: »

Centre Left =/= Right Wing

Not in my eyes. Voting down the child poverty bill for example was not a center left move.

smurgen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Defend them on what, ‘right wing’ isnt an insult, we wish FG were actually right wing and would do the things younger leo believed in, we lament you being wrong , not defending FG, if anything were insulting them for not living up to their older principals

What are the old principles you feel they're not living up to?

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

What are the old principles you feel they're not living up to?

To support the middle classes , support businesses and reduce taxation and welfare.

Remember increasing the higher tax threshold to 50k
‘Welfare cheats cheat us all’ clampdown
Flirtations with the flat tax
Leo condemning life time dole recipients.
Scrap the USC

What did we get : dole christmas bonus, more dole, more migrants, more tax , free for all abortion and same sex marraige.

FG are a twitter Clap centre left social policy party, not a right wing bone left in their leadership

smurgen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To support the middle classes , support businesses and reduce taxation and welfare.

Remember increasing the higher tax threshold to 50k
‘Welfare cheats cheat us all’ clampdown
Flirtations with the flat tax
Leo condemning life time dole recipients.
Scrap the USC

What did we get : dole christmas bonus, more dole, more migrants, more tax , free for all abortion and same sex marraige.

FG are a twitter Clap centre left social policy party, not a right wing bone left in their leadership

Funny enough I agree with you but all of that doesn't mean they're leftist. You can't just label things you don't like as leftist. Light touch regulation and low CT are right leaning. Corporate protection is high on the agenda in Ireland. The insurance and banking companies get away with murder here and this is facilitated by FG.

Eric Cartman

smurgen wrote: »

Funny enough I agree with you but all of that doesn't mean they're leftist. You can't just label things you don't like as leftist. Light touch regulation and low CT are right leaning. Corporate protection is high on the agenda in Ireland. The insurance and banking companies get away with murder here and this is facilitated by FG.

Those are policies left as a hangover from FF’s haughy and bertie. Just because FG didnt change them doesnt make them an indicator of FG’s right wing credentials. FF set this country up as a low corp tax country and encouraged FDI , were now stuck dependent on it. Theres no reasonable party in the land that could upset that apple cart without lunging us into poverty. charlies FF was centre right , but the foundations they lay down mean nobody is likely to change any of those rules, since bertie left in 07 the 2 big dogs of irish politics have been swinging just left of centre in every facet

goose2005

TomTomTim wrote: »

There's no right wing parties in Ireland. There's left and there's further left.

Most parties are right-wing economically but 'liberal' on social issues

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those are policies left as a hangover from FF’s haughy and bertie. Just because FG didnt change them doesnt make them an indicator of FG’s right wing credentials. FF set this country up as a low corp tax country and encouraged FDI , were now stuck dependent on it. Theres no reasonable party in the land that could upset that apple cart without lunging us into poverty. charlies FF was centre right , but the foundations they lay down mean nobody is likely to change any of those rules, since bertie left in 07 the 2 big dogs of irish politics have been swinging just left of centre in every facet

Did FFG not vote down a living wage bill,which eamonn ryan had to be famously woken up to do



Its a v.skewed perspective to list them.as centre left imo.....ireland as a country deosnt require union recognition....how is this position left leaning

Social welfare was only ever introduced 1st day to stave off communism popularity among poor in germany?

goose2005

smellyoldboot wrote: »

There's a much quicker way to end Direct Provision and it could be implemented tomorrow if we had the balls: Any waster that shows up without their documents in order or where Ireland could not possibly be the first safe country they landed in, straight out the fcukin door with them. No room for free-loaders, lifetime dolers , criminals and rapists here.

surely it would be possible to preserve anyone's documents digitally or something when they get on the plane? Then it wouldn't be possible to destroy them and turn up without them

ExMachina1000

Fg are not a right wing party. And even if they were people say right wing like it's a bad thing. It isnt

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did FFG not vote down a living wage bill,which eamonn ryan had to be famously woken up to do



Its a v.skewed perspective to list them.as centre left imo.....ireland as a country deosnt require union recognition....how is this position left leaning

Social welfare was only ever introduced 1st day to stave off communism popularity among poor in germany?

That bill was unconstitutionally written by The left specifically to get Headlines ‘they voted down a living wage’ , SF and PbP are famous for tabling unconstitutional bills with fuzzy titles for reactionary headlines

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Fg are not a right wing party. And even if they were people say right wing like it's a bad thing. It isnt

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

suicide_circus

smurgen wrote: »

Not in my eyes. Voting down the child poverty bill for example was not a center left move.

I'll goes as far as centrist but while there are ample examples of "left wing" policies, the examples of "right wing" policies are thin on the ground. Everything which is not pure as the driven snow left wing is not automatically right wing and vice versa

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

I wish he would , that would have solved our problems

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That bill was unconstitutionally written by The left specifically to get Headlines ‘they voted down a living wage’ , SF and PbP are famous for tabling unconstitutional bills with fuzzy titles for reactionary headlines

Meh...looks to me,they voted it down and havnt enacted a bill within the constitution to replace it,how is this left leaning position?

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Meh...looks to me,they voted it down and havnt enacted a bill within the constitution to replace it,how is this left leaning position?

You cant decide a parties political leaning based on bills they dont table...

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

Would save money long run and also free up housing for economic contributors. Great idea.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You cant decide a parties political leaning based on bills they dont table...

Why not?

Seems they voted down x,for being unconstitional and didnt enact a version of x,that would be constitional......seems to me,in no position would they have ever supported x?

TomTomTim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a reasonably strong right element within (not that anything wrong with that imo)....

didnt varadkar famously once want to pay forgieners on dole to go home??

Actions matter more than words. His actions always go the other way.

suicide_circus

I dont pay a Sunday Business Post subscription which means i can't access the article which is an intolerable affront to my dignity and my human rights, can anyone give any more detail from the article?

The Day report was a pie in the sky wish list of crazy things without any practical concerns taken into account. Day was at some UCD event during the week and she doesn't think that there will be any increased draw if her recommendations were followed which just shows that she is living in a dream world. I looked through the report and there are no discussions about ways to speed up the process just that it should be sped up. Its a really poor excuse for a report but I'm sure she'll enjoy the bualadh bos from the NGO's and feeling morally superior

Everyone talks about the time people spend in DP, so surely there is an apetite for change on that, it seems eminently more sensible than giving own door accommodation or right to work asap without actually verifying claims first. If we need a constitutional ammendment to speed it up so be it, put it to the people if we want this system reformed. The last government seemed to start a system of asylum decisions by petitions rather than them being judged on merit, the ability of any minister to influence an asylum decision where it has already been decided by the IPAT should be taken away.

I would love to see some sort of study into Ireland implementing a system similar to the Dutch for asylum processing

http://www.asylumineurope.org/reports/country/netherlands/asylum-procedure/general/short-overview-asylum-procedure

Procedural tracks: Since March 2016, the IND applies a “Five Tracks” policy,[1] whereby asylum seekers are channelled to a specific procedure track (spoor) depending on the circumstances of their case. These tracks are only applicable when the asylum application has been lodged on the territory, so not at the border.



Track 1 The IND is of the opinion that the Dublin Regulation is applicable on the asylum application. The application is assessed in a Dublin Procedure. The asylum seeker is not entitled to a rest and preparation period nor a medical examination by the Forensic Medical Society Utrecht (FMMU).[2]



Track 2 Applications from asylum seekers from a Safe Country of Origin or asylum seekers who already received international protection in another Member State are assessed in this fast-track procedure. The IND finds that it is not likely that these asylum requests will be complied with. The assessment of the application takes place in 8 steps within a maximum of 8 days; in practice they are concluded in less than 8 days. The asylum seeker is not entitled to a rest and preparation period or a medical examination by FMMU.[3]



Track 3 Applications of asylum seekers which are prima facie considered likely to be granted will be assessed in this fast-track procedure. This procedure is also linked to Track 5. This procedure has not yet been applied since 2017.



Track 4 This procedure is the Regular Procedure of 8 days, with the possibility to extend this time limit by 6, 8 or 14 days.[4] In case the application cannot be thoroughly assessed within the regular procedure there is a possibility of assessing the application in the Extended Procedure, within a deadline of 6 months.



Track 5 Asylum applications that could not be assessed in Track 3, due to the fact that nationality or identity documents have not been submitted. Like Track 3, Track 5 has not been applied in 2018 and 2019.

DeadHand

Finally, some good news.

Standby for the burgeoning anti-Irish elements within the Republic to tell us that the Housing Department is (along with the rest of our nation) “racist” and “too white”.

Jinglejangle69

smurgen wrote: »

Is there any FG post you're not monitoring to police and spring to their defence?

You didn't answer my question.

So you basically just deflected as you usually do.

kildare lad

Boils my blood reading crap like this, when my parents went to England they rented a tiny bedsit . Worked two jobs to get by and save up enough money to come back to Ireland and buy a house. When me and my mates went to australia we stayed in hostels or rented a house between us, my friends and my parents didn't get any welfare and yet we could support ourselves. I've cousins in England , canada , australia and New Zealand all emigrated with fxck all during the resession and all now own their own homes in them countries. Why in gods name do NGOs and some politicians think that people coming here should be given a council house for life within 3 months of getting here . I really feel for our kids who'll be growing up and trying to get a mortgage here anything around here to buy is at least 300, 000 grand . While johnny foreigner gets a house for nothing. Maybe they'd be better off going to Africa and getting a passport , then come here and they'll get a free house of the state .