Can I block up vents with expaning foam?

Brian201888

New build house and the vents are an annoyance, if I want to eliminate drafts is that the best way to achieve it?

I could buy a closable vent but I assume that would lead to issues with moisture in the vent gap?

I know it's for ventilation but we open windows so I don't see it being an issue in that regards.

gooseygander

No, crazy to suggest it even. If it’s a new build why not have went with mhrv ?. Don’t dream of blocking them up or you will create serious issues down the line, can be dangerous also especially if you have fires or stoves in the house. Don’t do it.

CoBo55

I stuffed mine with plastic bags 26 years ago, that bloody whistling would drive you stone crazy. Nobody died yet...

Stihl waters

Close it up it'll be fine, they're more for decorative purposes than anything else

I used fibreglass wool to block vents in bedrooms during the winter, I can then remove it in the summer.

listermint

Brian , please don't listen to any of the spoofers in here.

Vents are vital for multitude of reasons the top one being airflow.

Air exchange is needed for moisture removal it's also dangerously important for open fires or stoves.

The folks that tell you they blocked them up 26 years ago I'd imagine maybe unclear whether they have lung issues or not but restricting new air into living and sleeping rooms is a direct cause of bronchial issues including asthma.


Do not block vents ever.


If you want proper sound control or flow control there are many methods including baffles , passive vent systems, slider vents, trap vents. And so on and on.


Do not block them with foam , t-shirts or plastic bags and don't listen to people on the internet that tell you it's grand either.

dok_golf

Can you? Yes you can. Should you? No, you shouldn't.

Borzoi

dok_golf wrote: »

Can you? Yes you can. Should you? No, you shouldn't.

This. 1000 times this.

There has been cases of death caused by people making homes overly airtight, especially combined with open fires or gas appliances

Brian201888

gooseygander wrote: »

No, crazy to suggest it even. If it’s a new build why not have went with mhrv ?. Don’t dream of blocking them up or you will create serious issues down the line, can be dangerous also especially if you have fires or stoves in the house. Don’t do it.

New build in an estate, we'd no say in spec or would have gone MHRV


To clarify we've no stove/gas all electric in the house.

If the only concern outside of that would be airflow we do open windows daily to air the place?

Brian201888

But consensus seems to be against it so I'd best listen

con747

Brian201888 wrote: »

But consensus seems to be against it so I'd best listen

You would be better off getting a qualified expert opinion and not taking strangers advise on here.

Brian201888

Out of curiosity given we genuinely would have no issues opening windows to air the place out and we've no gas/fire is the only concern that windows wouldn't be opened regularly enough?

Fine Cheers

Opening windows is know as rapid ventilation. Wall vents are for background ventilation. See Part F of Building Regs. Do not block up but you could change to a decent hit n miss type ie slide to open / close.

Brian201888

Stupid question but would a closed vent not be doing the same thing?

listermint

Brian201888 wrote: »

Stupid question but would a closed vent not be doing the same thing?

No. This has been designed with scale of each room in mind.

You can take the advice or not. You've only one set of lungs entirely up to you obviously.

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

No. This has been designed with scale of each room in mind.

You can take the advice or not. You've only one set of lungs entirely up to you obviously.

Scale of room? Will you stop for god sake, get away from the desk mr architect and take a look at how the builder actually installs these life saving vents you refer too. It’s a piece of manky wavin pipe lobbed across the cavity and haphazardly sealed with a slobber of mortar, the cheapo plastic vent thingy is tacked on to the wall with two steel nails and on to the next one..
I’ve had 5 children in my sealed tomb of death I’m the only one left, they all died from some mysterious lung disease I’m going to be on medical detectives next week...

Lumen

CoBo55 wrote: »

take a look at how the builder actually installs these life saving vents you refer too. It’s a piece of manky wavin pipe lobbed across the cavity and haphazardly sealed with a slobber of mortar, the cheapo plastic vent thingy is tacked on to the wall with two steel nails and on to the next one..

I’ve had 5 children in my sealed tomb of death I’m the only one left, they all died from some mysterious lung disease I’m going to be on medical detectives next week...

If your house was built 25 years ago then it probably "ventilates" itself in other ways. It's not comparable to a modern new build.

Also, it's completely impossible to predict exactly the effect of inadequate ventilation on a given house, because it depends on how it is built. You might get hidden black mould or you might not. You might have excess VOCs or you might not.

OP, purge ventilation (opening windows) might be OK for living rooms but it definitely isn't for bedrooms. There's just too much moisture (breath and sweat) produced as you sleep for a healthy atmosphere.

You may be able to change the vents to reduce drafts; there are loads of past threads on this (search for black hole vent for example_).

listermint

CoBo55 wrote: »

Scale of room? Will you stop for god sake, get away from the desk mr architect and take a look at how the builder actually installs these life saving vents you refer too. It’s a piece of manky wavin pipe lobbed across the cavity and haphazardly sealed with a slobber of mortar, the cheapo plastic vent thingy is tacked on to the wall with two steel nails and on to the next one..
I’ve had 5 children in my sealed tomb of death I’m the only one left, they all died from some mysterious lung disease I’m going to be on medical detectives next week...

Trump supporter no doubt.

Hell with science and engineering , my opinion trumps all.....

It's a joy to behold

biko

Is Trump the new Godwin? Stick around and find out..


OP, this has come up before
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057814323
General consensus is to not block them as they are needed.

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

Trump supporter no doubt.

Hell with science and engineering , my opinion trumps all.....

It's a joy to behold

Reduced to name calling now?

Lumen

CoBo55 wrote: »

Reduced to name calling now?

Well you called him an architect. That's a low blow.

sbsquarepants

CoBo55 wrote: »

I stuffed mine with plastic bags 26 years ago, that bloody whistling would drive you stone crazy. Nobody died yet...

In theory at least the new build should be a lot less leaky than one built 3 decades ago. Blocking yours that long ago probably made little real difference to the total air movement through your house. Blocking the new vents is asking for trouble though - mold could become a problem fairly quickly, especially at this time of year if you're drying clothes indoor and so on.

biko

There are houses designed to be almost hermetically sealed - Passive Houses.
They are a far cry from regular Irish concrete boxes.


https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/sort-it-poor-ventilation-can-have-serious-health-consequences-1.2829959

Andrew Lundberg says: “I had a project recently where the builder had built well below five air changes per hour (ACH), but wasn’t aware of the implications, and nor was anyone else involved. They realised there was a problem when they started to get mould in the houses.”

CoBo55

sbsquarepants wrote: »

In theory at least the new build should be a lot less leaky than one built 3 decades ago. Blocking yours that long ago probably made little real difference to the total air movement through your house. Blocking the new vents is asking for trouble though - mold could become a problem fairly quickly, especially at this time of year if you're drying clothes indoor and so on.

It made a huge difference the house was freezing. Obviously we open the windows every day as the op said he's going to do. I use a meaco dehumidifier from now until around March. @ Op, do you have window vents? They're much better and controllable than shoddy wall vents.

sbsquarepants

CoBo55 wrote: »

It made a huge difference the house was freezing. Obviously we open the windows every day as the op said he's going to do. I use a meaco dehumidifier from now until around March. @ Op, do you have window vents? They're much better and controllable than shoddy wall vents.

I know where you're coming from, I've done it myself in a couple of places i've lived, but those places leaked air like sieves anyway. I felt the wind howling around the kitchen was a more pressing concern than sick building syndrome:D



Any house built in the last decade or so really shouldn't be like that however. I'd definitely leave those vents be.

FileNotFound

Brian201888 wrote: »

New build house and the vents are an annoyance, if I want to eliminate drafts is that the best way to achieve it?

I could buy a closable vent but I assume that would lead to issues with moisture in the vent gap?

I know it's for ventilation but we open windows so I don't see it being an issue in that regards.

If you don't have combustibles in the house (Fire, stove, gas hob) vents seem to be for ventilation. If you have any combustible DO NOT close up the vents in the room its in at least!!!!!

I'll defer to the experts here - but in the absence of any life threatening (and don't waste our time on non damp) issue is there an actual justification to all the venting in new houses? Most rooms seem to have 2 which creates a nice wind..

Lumen

FileNotFound wrote: »

in the absence of any life threatening (and don't waste our time on non damp) issue is there an actual justification to all the venting in new houses?

Yes, aside from humidity control and combustion by-products there's VOCs.

I closed up ours in the bedrooms because you could feel the draft as soon as you walk into the bedrooms, even with the vents closed, and, they were too noisy when the wind blew. As I said, fibreglass wool insulation is the job, easily removed during the summer.

Heighway61

Is the danger carbon monoxide build up? I blocked off mine, a sitting room with a wood burning stove. At the same time I put in a carbon monoxide alarm which hasn't triggerd since I blocked off the vent.

listermint

Heighway61 wrote: »

Is the danger carbon monoxide build up? I blocked off mine, a sitting room with a wood burning stove. At the same time I put in a carbon monoxide alarm which hasn't triggerd since I blocked off the vent.

Jesus wept...

..

I know a few people that have blocked them up for various reasons (Cold air, letting outside noise in, etc.). No one has died yet, or developed breathing issues.

There probably is a legitimate need for them, but my attitude to them has always been 'block them up' as I find they're a nuisance and a needlessly exaggerated step towards ventilation. No one needs a 4" hole in their sitting room wall. It's overkill.

That said, use an old T-shirt or something, using expanding foam makes it tricky to remove, should you reconsider.

Lumen

Heighway61 wrote: »

Is the danger carbon monoxide build up? I blocked off mine, a sitting room with a wood burning stove. At the same time I put in a carbon monoxide alarm which hasn't triggerd since I blocked off the vent.

You're risking lung cancer from smoke inhalation.

listermint

Deleted User wrote: »

I know a few people that have blocked them up for various reasons (Cold air, letting outside noise in, etc.). No one has died yet, or developed breathing issues.

There probably is a legitimate need for them, but my attitude to them has always been 'block them up' as I find they're a nuisance and a needlessly exaggerated step towards ventilation. No one needs a 4" hole in their sitting room wall. It's overkill.

That said, use an old T-shirt or something, using expanding foam makes it tricky to remove, should you reconsider.

Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

Depressing stuff all the same.

Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.

Melanchthon

listermint wrote: »

Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

Depressing stuff all the same.

Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.

Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

listermint

Melanchthon wrote: »

Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

because people arent willing to pay more for MHRV to be installed. A home owner can do that OR control via passive ventilation. Again its all down to cost.

But you NEED ventilation , simple as that.

timmyntc

Melanchthon wrote: »

Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

Majority are cheaply & lazily done - a hollow PVC pipe and two plastic vent coverings drilled in on either side. It literally is just a hole in the wall - and the noise, awful.

You can do stuff to reduce the noise, and to stop wind from blowing straight in, but be wary of anything that significantly reduces airflow through the vent.

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

Depressing stuff all the same.

Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.

Well, myself and my family are still alive that's factual enough for me:)
I've owned both Renaults and Fiats, anything in particular you'd like to know?
P.s. Damn (the word is damn) the word you used keeps back water, lots of water not lots of experts.

Melanchthon

listermint wrote: »

because people arent willing to pay more for MHRV to be installed. A home owner can do that OR control via passive ventilation. Again its all down to cost.

But you NEED ventilation , simple as that.

I understand respiration and combustion if applicable! My question is the idea of putting in a hole in the wall that results in air from outside blowing in at outside would seem to defeat the point of insulation.
I did see on this forum I think a link to a small vent based heat exchanger.

timmyntc wrote: »

Majority are cheaply & lazily done - a hollow PVC pipe and two plastic vent coverings drilled in on either side. It literally is just a hole in the wall - and the noise, awful.

You can do stuff to reduce the noise, and to stop wind from blowing straight in, but be wary of anything that significantly reduces airflow through the vent.

I know that I am a adult renter in Ireland! On that note having lived and stayed abroad other countries don't seem to generally have vents like they do in Ireland.

Basically what's the recommended rate of air flow that's safe, in in other places is it lower, is Ireland an outlier?

MicktheMan

Melanchthon wrote: »

Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

You go to serious amounts of effort to reduce the heat loss from a house (insulation and air tightness) but you then need to have either a ventilation system or strategy to get rid of the moisture (avg family of 2 adults & 3 kids put out between 12 & 18 litres of water per 24 hours from normal activities inside the home). This moisture needs to be gotten rid of or you will end up with issues such as mould and higher heating bills.
Unfortunately, "hole in wall" vents as a system has been proven to be a poor choice by the building industry.

If you block up your vents and don't get a problem of excess moisture and associated issues, then your house is already so leaky that they are not needed and blocking them gives a placebo effect.

CoBo55

MicktheMan wrote: »

You go to serious amounts of effort to reduce the heat loss from a house (insulation and air tightness) but you then need to have either a ventilation system or strategy to get rid of the moisture (avg family of 2 adults & 3 kids put out between 12 & 18 litres of water per 24 hours from normal activities inside the home). This moisture needs to be gotten rid of or you will end up with issues such as mould and higher heating bills.
Unfortunately, "hole in wall" vents as a system has been proven to be a poor choice by the building industry.

If you block up your vents and don't get a problem of excess moisture and associated issues, then your house is already so leaky that they are not needed and blocking them gives a placebo effect.

The only part of your post I agree with, the rest is alarmist rubbish.

MicktheMan

Melanchthon wrote: »

Basically what's the recommended rate of air flow that's safe, in in other places is it lower, is Ireland an outlier?

Interesting question that.
Were the other places you lived colder in winter?
We have a relatively moderate climate here (i.e. it doesn't really get cold in winter like it would in central or eastern Europe) so the "efficiency" of our ventilation systems is significantly lower than colder regions. This then means that it is more difficult here to rid the moisture from houses.

MicktheMan

CoBo55 wrote: »

The only part of your post I agree with, the rest is alarmist rubbish.

Each to their own:)

Lumen

Bit old (2004) but it'll do.

http://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/members_area/medias/pdf/Conf/2004/2004028_Yoshino.pdf

GreeBo

Brian201888 wrote: »

New build in an estate, we'd no say in spec or would have gone MHRV


To clarify we've no stove/gas all electric in the house.

If the only concern outside of that would be airflow we do open windows daily to air the place?

If its a new build then probably/hopefully the rest of the house is quite airtight.
If you remove the last source for fresh air in your house then you are asking for trouble (for both you and the house)

CoBo55

MicktheMan wrote: »

Interesting question that.
Were the other places you lived colder in winter?
We have a relatively moderate climate here (i.e. it doesn't really get cold in winter like it would in central or eastern Europe) so the "efficiency" of out ventilation systems is significantly lower that colder regions. This then means that it is more difficult here to rid the moisture from houses.

Just open the window:pac:

PCros

So I have a 35 year old home with the aul hole in the cavity block vent system. Metal grill on the external wall and plastic sliders on the internal wall.

1) We have one front facing room that takes a lot of traffic noise so this is currently semi blocked, the rest of the rooms are open. Is there a company in Ireland that provides upgrades to vent systems in older houses or even units that slot into the cavity block that decrease sound whilst maintaining airflow?

2) In the interim would a decent dehumidifier in said room counteract any humidity?

TIA

Alkers

PCros wrote: »

So I have a 35 year old home with the aul hole in the cavity block vent system. Metal grill on the external wall and plastic sliders on the internal wall.

1) We have one front facing room that takes a lot of traffic noise so this is currently semi blocked, the rest of the rooms are open. Is there a company in Ireland that provides upgrades to vent systems in older houses or even units that slot into the cavity block that decrease sound whilst maintaining airflow?

2) In the interim would a decent dehumidifier in said room counteract any humidity?

TIA

Take the cover off the existing vent and measure the diameter of the hole, then you'll easily fine a replacement vent for it, you can get accoustic versions and even humidity controlled ones which vary air flow with demand

PCros

Alkers wrote: »

Take the cover off the existing vent and measure the diameter of the hole, then you'll easily fine a replacement vent for it, you can get accoustic versions and even humidity controlled ones which vary air flow with demand

Thanks for the reply.

Are these of any use?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klimapartner-ESD-100-line-Absorbing/dp/B0133DPDSO/ref=asc_df_B0133DPDSO/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=231920353356&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1927715072931611861&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007850&hvtargid=pla-422799557223&th=1

FlipperThePriest

There's a fair amount of bad advice on this thread. A few of the resident experts seem to be refusing to engage, probably in the same way a scientist wouldn't engage with an antivaxxer... because there's just no point, and I wouldn't blame them. Doesn't bode well for anyone in the future coming across the thread though.

I would highly recommend that people with blocked vents buy a handful of hygrometers online and drop them around the house to learn how their house responds to inhabitants. If the relative humidity is consistently over 60% day or night then you need more ventilation.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thlevel-Temperature-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Greenhouse/dp/B07JW7K2M5/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hygrometer+pack&qid=1605889581&sr=8-6

I would guess that 9 out of 10 times the type of person blocking vents in a modern house is also the type of person that will skimp on opening windows adequately and decide it's too cold outside. Bedroom windows open for a bit before work in the morning for example isn't going to cut it.

I would find out how to block the wind, not the air.

Few years ago I bought a 1970s bungalow and have recently upgraded insulation, airtightness (to a fair degree) and upgraded the heating system and controls. I now find that the windows need to be left on the ventilation lock (cracked open) day and night to keep the place 50-60%. I will eventually install a heat recovery system. I don't have vents at the moment, so windows it is.

CoBo55

zippy84 wrote: »

There's a fair amount of bad advice on this thread. A few of the resident experts seem to be refusing to engage, probably in the same way a scientist wouldn't engage with an antivaxxer... because there's just no point, and I wouldn't blame them. Doesn't bode well for anyone in the future coming across the thread though.

I would highly recommend that people with blocked vents buy a handful of hygrometers online and drop them around the house to learn how their house responds to inhabitants. If the relative humidity is consistently over 60% day or night then you need more ventilation.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thlevel-Temperature-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Greenhouse/dp/B07JW7K2M5/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hygrometer+pack&qid=1605889581&sr=8-6

I would guess that 9 out of 10 times the type of person blocking vents in a modern house is also the type of person that will skimp on opening windows adequately and decide it's too cold outside. Bedroom windows open for a bit before work in the morning for example isn't going to cut it.

I would find out how to block the wind, not the air.

Few years ago I bought a 1970s bungalow and have recently upgraded insulation, airtightness (to a fair degree) and upgraded the heating system and controls. I now find that the windows need to be left on the ventilation lock (cracked open) day and night to keep the place 50-60%. I will eventually install a heat recovery system. I don't have vents at the moment, so windows it is.

More untrue assumptions, at least you didn't call me/us Trump supporters. 55% all day every day as reported by 3 hygrometers. The heating (oil) (outside burner) runs for 2.5 hours a day, no stoves or open fires. Yes, all my children are Vaccinated, I'll just nip that one in the bud. I have been in an Aeroplane so I know the earth is round.

listermint

CoBo55 wrote: »

More untrue assumptions, at least you didn't call me/us Trump supporters. 55% all day every day as reported by 3 hygrometers. The heating (oil) (outside burner) runs for 2.5 hours a day, no stoves or open fires. Yes, all my children are Vaccinated, I'll just nip that one in the bud. I have been in an Aeroplane so I know the earth is round.

You've brought me around with this one,

It's totally amazing. The engineers and architects in Ireland have been doing it wrong all these years.

Would you mind putting together a letter to the construction industry federation Ireland to tell them how vents are a con. They'd make a saving on the effort of leaving these slots open or core drilling. Win win all round