Jump start car - connect negative terminals?

pmf84

Hi,


My 06 Clio 1.2L Petrol has been idle for a few months now and I have tried to jump start it several times using both jump leads and a starter pack (upto 2L) without any luck. The battery seems completely dead as turning the ignition produces no noise at all.


I did get a recovery truck out about 2 months ago and he was able to jump it almost immediately, but I remember he produced a spark (which I thought was unusual) when connecting his jump starter pack - so am wondering if he actually connected both the positive and negative terminals on the battery? I know this is not recommended but can this be more effective at getting a completely dead battery started? Just wanted to hear people's thoughts on this or if anyone has ever tried this?


thanks

tanko

Are you sure that your starter pack/booster is fully charged up?
It's not unusual for there to be a spark when connecting the leads even when done properly.
Connect the positive lead to the positive terminal on the battery and the negative lead to the negative terminal.

frozenfrozen

Id always do negative to chassis ground. Probably grand both ways but owners manual will say to do it that way

pmf84

Hi tanko,


Yes, the start pack is fully charged but has no effect whatsoever.


The instructions for the starter pack state "connect the black clamp to the engine chassis" but I am nearly sure the recovery guy connected the black clamp directly to the negative terminal on the battery - I also see some videos on Youtube doing the same thing (some even connecting the negative first).


So the question is; if following the instructions for the starter pack (red -> red, black ->chassis) has absolutely no effect - should I now try (red -> red, black -> black) or even (black -> black, red -> red)?


thanks

TheW1zard

I go black black, red red. the car your jumping last
Then red red black black to take off.

On the batteries.

Cordell

Ideally like so:
Donor - both clips on the battery
Receiver - positive on the battery, negative on a chunk of exposed non painted metal.

But your problem may be that the battery sat low on charge for too long, even a few days of very low charge will kill a car battery.

colm_mcm

Connect the red lead to the + terminal, and the black lead to the - terminal.

There’s a chance you’re not connecting to something that’s grounded on the chassis so just go to the terminals.

Whatever you do, don’t connect them the other way round or you’ll have real issues.

Connect + first then -

drdidlittle

How old is battery. If not newish its probably dead. New one needed as it won't hold charge even if you get car started.

doctorchopper

you'll get a better connection using the battery ground terminal as it is most likely cleaner (no rust), it is recommended to use a chassis ground to avoid sparks near the battery which can lead to explosion.

ted1

Connect to the -ve on the battery or follow a lead coming from the battery to an earthing point you can connect to.

pmf84

thanks for all your comments.


I'll try connect the red lead to the + terminal, and then black lead to the - terminal.


One last question - the instructions also state that you connect the clamps first and then switch the battery ON - should I follow this order if I am connecting to the negative battery terminal also?

And yeah I am looking to replace the battery - am just trying to jump start it in order to get it to the garage.

28064212

The reason for not connecting to the negative terminal is to prevent explosions. Car batteries emit ignitable gases, and if there's a sufficient amount of them when you get a spark connecting the last cable, you're not going to have a good time. There is not likely to be any significant difference in power generation whether you use a negative terminal or a grounded metal part of the engine, so just do it the safe way.

There's two likely reasons for not being able to jumpstart:

• You've chosen a bad grounding point on the engine: rust, paint, not metal, not grounded
• The battery's too far gone

khaldrogo

If you don't know how to jump start a car, probably best not to try. ECUs are not cheap.

Isambard

a spark connecting the leads could have done no damage if the car started

It's likely your battery is too far gone, can you borrow a battery from another car?

ted1

pmf84 wrote: »

And yeah I am looking to replace the battery - am just trying to jump start it in order to get it to the garage.

You could push start it.
Put it in 2nd, turn the key( as Uou round to start the car) get someone to push it ( have the hand break off, keep your foot on the clutch. When you get about 5km let the clutch out and give it some acceleration

mickdw

ted1 wrote: »

You could push start it.
Put it in 2nd, turn the key( as Uou round to start the car) get someone to push it ( have the hand break off, keep your foot on the clutch. When you get about 5km let the clutch out and give it some acceleration

If the battery is completely dead, pushing or towing it from here to hell wont start it.

Isambard

ted1 wrote: »

You could push start it.
Put it in 2nd, turn the key( as Uou round to start the car) get someone to push it ( have the hand break off, keep your foot on the clutch. When you get about 5km let the clutch out and give it some acceleration

we aren't allowed to go more than 5 km of course.....

ted1

Isambard wrote: »

we aren't allowed to go more than 5 km of course.....

Haha. That be a long push alright. What a difference a ‘h’ makes. 5kmh v 5km

Cerco

Your starting motor maybe stuck. Rock the car forwards and backwards in gear with ignition off.


Also have a look here:

Link: https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/threads/clio-non-starter-earth-fault-fixed.523290/

pmf84

Update: So I went out and tried to jump start it with the starter pack again after some posters made me doubt if I had grounded it properly previously (to the chassis). I tried connecting the negative clamp to several metallic parts (clean, unpainted) but there was absolutely no reaction from the ignition whatsoever.

So I decided to try connecting the black clamp to the negative terminal of the battery (this being after connecting the red) with the charger pack turned OFF. I then turned the starter pack on (no sparks) and tried the ignition - and hey presto - the car started immediately!

So it does seem that connecting to the negative terminal on the battery has a different effect to the chassis - even though the instructions on the charger pack specifically said not to do this!

Isambard

it depends what the clean unpainted metai parts were. Not everything is connected to earth


Anyway, you're good to go. Your charger starter with an off position should be safe to connect direct to the battery as you've found,.

shane b

Your battery is probably far too low in voltage for a booster. I had to jump start my house mates car a few years ago and it took about 20 minutes of the 2 cars being connected for her car to actually start. Granted the set of jump leads weren't that heavy so transfer rate was slow.
You may be better take the battery out of the car and charge it overnight if you know someone with a charger.

ohnonotgmail

shane b wrote: »

Your battery is probably far too low in voltage for a booster. I had to jump start my house mates car a few years ago and it took about 20 minutes of the 2 cars being connected for her car to actually start. Granted the set of jump leads weren't that heavy so transfer rate was slow.
You may be better take the battery out of the car and charge it overnight if you know someone with a charger.

they jumpstarted it last night

Bleating Lamb

Glad to hear you got sorted OP.........have a general question?.....if battery is run down and you need to get a push start does it help build up the battery by leaving the car running for a period of time?.....

Cee-Jay-Cee

TheW1zard wrote: »

I go black black, red red. the car your jumping last
Then red red black black to take off.

On the batteries.

I always do the opposite of that.

Red > Red and then black > black and then reverse when removing them ie remove the neg black on the car being jump started first.

Isambard

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I always do the opposite of that.

Red > Red and then black > black and then reverse when removing them ie remove the neg black on the car being jump started first.

and you are quite correct, spark quite likely if earth already connected when red attached.

Roanmore

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Glad to hear you got sorted OP.........have a general question?.....if battery is run down and you need to get a push start does it help build up the battery by leaving the car running for a period of time?.....

I had this issue in the past, don't think leaving it run on the drive will build up the battery. Think it has to be driven at over 2000 revs for a period of time.
Please note I'm not a mechanic so don't know the reason for it but it seemed to work.

zg3409

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Glad to hear you got sorted OP.........have a general question?.....if battery is run down and you need to get a push start does it help build up the battery by leaving the car running for a period of time?.....

Yes, as said though its best to bring it on a long fast 30 minute drive in a low gear with at least 2,000 rpm.
Its better to charge it overnight as even a 30 minute drive may not bring battery back to 100%

In terms of jumper pack and negative to chassis or battery negative, the correct way is when using another car is to connect direct to battery on good car. On bad car connect negative not to the battery but rely solid metal on engine or near battery. Ideally have someone in car ready to turn key just after you connect up.

I often leave good cars engine running to help a bit.

Once started make sure headlights, rear window heater are off and bring for a long run. If in any doubt go direct to motor factors and fit a new battery.

There are a few reasons to not connect direct to bad battery

1) You are trying to apply power to starter motor and electronics for a few seconds enough to kick car into life. If you connect direct to battery, battery will start taking say 50% of the power, leaving only 50% for starter motor. Its more likely to start.

2) Connecting two batteries directly together one good and one bad will result in a massive amount of power flowing from good battery to bad for a long time if you leave jump leads on. Going via chassis may half the rate the bad battery is super rapid charged preventing damage to both batteries.

I typically jump start in the first 4 or 5 seconds of connecting then disconnect. This prevents damage to both batteries and jump leads.

Sometimes if bad battery is really bad you may need to wait for a minute or two before car electronics will come to life. In older cars if you turn key and don't see all the normal red lights with engine off, then car is not ready to even try to start.

I don't recommend jump starting for beginners. You can easily connect wrong way around as cars wiring may have black for + or no clear markings. Connecting wrong way around can permanently break both cars or even cause a battery to explode its sulfuric acid. I know of one case where a fauly starter caused a starter battery to explode covering owner in acid. His clothes dissolved after a while.

antodeco

As someone has jumped cars about 10000000 times it's easy to remember to say "red dead". That's your starting point. Red dead to red good. Black good to black dead (or chassis).

OP, how long are you leaving it sit for? Being honest, better off connecting to another car and let the other rev up a bit. Where you based?

Edit: Note to self, read full thread. Glad you got sorted OP