Extractor fan venting into attic.

sonny liston

Hi folks,


recently realised that extraction fan from the ensuite bathroom in the appartment below me was venting straight into the attic above me. Some minor damage to timber around the vent. Also, silverfish are a problem so want to get as much moisture out of attic as possible. 15 year old development.



A tradesman recently extended the extractor pipe over towards the soffit vents. But he missed the vent by a few inches. Said he couldn't get the pipe directly over vents, but that any steam would get sucked out the nearby vent. (I'm sure with a simple 90 degree elbow connection it is possible to get pipe directly over vent.)



- is the solution shown in the image acceptable (my common sense tells me any steam will just rise back up into the attic).
- is it even acceptable if the pipe was directly over the soffit vent?


Regards.

sonny liston

The soffit vent is a little to the right of the end of the pipe in that image, in case it is not obvious.

Cheers.

Dr_Colossus

Hard to make sense of that set up. That's a 1 1/2" waste pipe rather than a minimum 100mm flexi hose (that should be insulated) I'd be expecting from an extractor fan. Did the "trademan" put a reducer on the flexi hose to join it to the waste pipe. Either way if it's a vent from an extractor fan having it exit at the soffit is not satisfactory, needs to be vented via a slate vent in the roof so that the moisture doesn't re-circulate back into the attic from the soffit.

Is the apartment underneath part of a duplex and you have access/owndership of the attic space above? Don't understand why their ensuite would be venting all the way through your apartment and then into the attic. Any moisture over that length of vertical run would likely condense and drip/fall back into their ensuite.

Any more pictures of the vent pipe coming into the attic, is there an inline fan in the attic or is the extraction via a wall/ceiling fan in the apartment below.

MicktheMan

sonny liston wrote: »

Hi folks,


recently realised that extraction fan from the ensuite bathroom in the appartment below me was venting straight into the attic above me. Some minor damage to timber around the vent. Also, silverfish are a problem so want to get as much moisture out of attic as possible. 15 year old development.

- is the solution shown in the image acceptable (my common sense tells me any steam will just rise back up into the attic).
- is it even acceptable if the pipe was directly over the soffit vent?


Regards.

Is this not an issue for the apartment complex management company?

sonny liston

Thanks for the reply.

Here's a pic of how vent pipe enters the attic.
It is driven by a ceiling fan below me, up through a conduit in my appartment, and then into the attic.
Only I have access to the attic.

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Hard to make sense of that set up. That's a 1 1/2" waste pipe rather than a minimum 100mm flexi hose (that should be insulated) I'd be expecting from an extractor fan. Did the "trademan" put a reducer on the flexi hose to join it to the waste pipe. Either way if it's a vent from an extractor fan having it exit at the soffit is not satisfactory, needs to be vented via a slate vent in the roof so that the moisture doesn't re-circulate back into the attic from the soffit.

Is the apartment underneath part of a duplex and you have access/owndership of the attic space above? Don't understand why their ensuite would be venting all the way through your apartment and then into the attic. Any moisture over that length of vertical run would likely condense and drip/fall back into their ensuite.

Any more pictures of the vent pipe coming into the attic, is there an inline fan in the attic or is the extraction via a wall/ceiling fan in the apartment below.

sonny liston

Yes, management company employed the tradesmen.
But I have a interest in ensuring any job is done properly and won't cause problems further down the line.

MicktheMan wrote: »

Is this not an issue for the apartment complex management company?

ted1

sonny liston wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Here's a pic of how vent pipe enters the attic.
It is driven by a ceiling fan below me, up through a conduit in my appartment, and then into the attic.
Only I have access to the attic.

Did they just drop the pipe into a 4 inch duct?
If he had if cut a few inches off the pipe it would have better aligned to the vent.

It’s a poor job. By the time it reaches the exit it’ll be water.

I’d say it was a handyman as opposed to a qualified tradesman

MicktheMan

sonny liston wrote: »

Yes, management company employed the tradesmen.
But I have a interest in ensuring any job is done properly and won't cause problems further down the line.

Given the pictures you posted, "tradesmen" is a stretch. I wouldn't allow them back tbh.

Who in their right mind attaches an 1" 1/4 or 1" 1/2 waste pipe to an (probably 4") extractor fan and then runs it uninsulated through a cold attic. I doubt the extractor fan is very good in the apartment below.

sonny liston

To clarify.....

The vertical white pipe was put in by the builders 15 years ago. It goes all the way down to ceiling fan in the appartment below me. No idea how the ceiling fan and pipe connect?

The horiztonal white pipe was attached this week in an attempt to vent the pipe to the exterior.

MicktheMan

Okay, clearer picture now.
The recent work has, imo, increased the risk of a water leak in your attic by adding the horizontal section and not adding a down piece exiting through the soffit vent.
Thus compounding the error of the original, ahem, "solution".

sonny liston

Thanks for the replies.

Is there any benefit to adjusting the new pipe so that it exits over soffit vent.
And any suggestions on how to achieve this? I see some flexible waste pipes online. Would that work?

I know venting thru roof tile is better, but not something I can do myself, and no guarantees management company will pay for it.

Dr_Colossus

sonny liston wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Is there any benefit to adjusting the new pipe so that it exits over soffit vent.
And any suggestions on how to achieve this? I see some flexible waste pipes online. Would that work?

I know venting thru roof tile is better, but not something I can do myself, and no guarantees management company will pay for it.

No excuse for "trademan" not getting pipe directly over vent, he could have put in a 45 bend a few inches prior to the exit or alternatively swung pipe over to the next vent for a shorter run.

Truely bizarre set up, I expect the vent is not exiting from a shower room as the moisture extraction would be non existant and putting some pressure on the fan with air flow reduced from 4" to 1 1/2".
Is it worth checking with your neighbours downstairs to see the room/fan and if they have any problems with it. If it is a shower room there must be water dripping from the fan as it condenses back down along the pipe.

sonny liston

If you look at my 2nd pic, you can see the timber above the vertical pipe is black. So I do think mousture/steam is coming up the pipe.

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

No excuse for "trademan" not getting pipe directly over vent, he could have put in a 45 bend a few inches prior to the exit or alternatively swung pipe over to the next vent for a shorter run.

Truely bizarre set up, I expect the vent is not exiting from a shower room as the moisture extraction would be non existant and putting some pressure on the fan with air flow reduced from 4" to 1 1/2".
Is it worth checking with your neighbours downstairs to see the room/fan and if they have any problems with it. If it is a shower room there must be water dripping from the fan as it condenses back down along the pipe.

Alkers

How difficult is roof access to the main roo It's really not a big job for a roofer to put a tile vent directly above the vertical pipe.
The whole setup is a sham though, does their bathroom have any external walls they could core through?

Lumen

This is probably a question for the Construction and Planning Forum, but my take is...

Does it comply with building regulations? I'm guessing "no".
How will it be brought into compliance?
Who must pay?

That's it.

There's debate over whether soffit venting is even acceptable, and this isn't even that.

It's one sh!t non solution on top of another.

sonny liston

Is it possible, should I, move this thread to Construction & Planning Forum? Or open another question there?

There is an unused tile vent on the opposite side of the attic to where the extractor fan vent enters the attic.
My neighbour has the exact same layout. Seems to be the same layout in every apartment.

I suspect architect put roof tile on wrong side of attic and builder never corrected it? And this got copy/pasted on every roof in the development?

sonny liston

There are 5 other roof tiles which are connected by flexible hoses to where extractor fans enter the attic.
But this one roof tile and extraction pipe are on opposite sides of roof and not connected!

Alkers

sonny liston wrote: »

Is it possible, should I, move this thread to Construction & Planning Forum? Or open another question there?

There is an unused tile vent on the opposite side of the attic to where the extractor fan vent enters the attic.
My neighbour has the exact same layout. Seems to be the same layout in every apartment.

I suspect architect put roof tile on wrong side of attic and builder never corrected it? And this got copy/pasted on every roof in the development?

In that case the management company should get s roofer organised to move the roof vents, it's probably a quicker job than the "handyman" having to gain access to all of the attics to do what he's done.

dathi

MicktheMan wrote: »

Given the pictures you posted, "tradesmen" is a stretch. I wouldn't allow them back tbh.

Who in their right mind attaches an 1" 1/4 or 1" 1/2 waste pipe to an (probably 4") extractor fan and then runs it uninsulated through a cold attic. I doubt the extractor fan is very good in the apartment below.

i wonder if it is a soil pipe vent. even if its that it wrong

iwillhtfu

dathi wrote: »

i wonder if it is a soil pipe vent. even if its that it wrong

I'd have said it's exactly that and OP may have just seen the pipe and assumed it was somehow part of the extractor fan. I'd say the extractor fan is just screwed t the ceiling and the moisture issue will still be there.

OP can you take the extractor fan down and see if anything is actually attached to it. It would be a lot of effort to connect an 1 1/2" wavin to a typical 4" extractor outlet, surely they'd just have used flexi pipe instead.

cruizer101

Surely if it was a soil pipe vent you would as the attic would absolutely stink

iwillhtfu

cruizer101 wrote: »

Surely if it was a soil pipe vent you would as the attic would absolutely stink

An apartment building so probably no storage etc so no reason for anyone to be up there it would easily go unnoticed. I've seen similar a few times when working in attics and can't say I noticed an obvious stink in the attic but around the end of the pipe itself yes.

sonny liston

Hmmmm......you could be right about it being a soil pipe vent.

There are three of these pipes coming up from the apartment below. One even seems to be directly over his ground floor toilet. So coming up 3 stories. Maybe an extractor fan wouldn't go up that far?

The ensuite in the appartment below is at the front of the building, but there are no grills/vents in the wall. There are 3 grills/vents at the back of the building. Maybe the extractor duct runs through his apartment and out the back.

There is a bit of a smell when you get up close to the the pipes in the attic. i assumed it was just from years of shower steam? But maybe it is related to the sewerage system?

Thanks.

awec

There's no way that is a functioning extractor fan setup IMO.

If it's an extractor fan then I think what would be coming out of that pipe would be water, not steam. But most of it would end up just going back down the vertical run into the apartment below.

GreeBo

If its a soil pipe vent then the attic has the potential of turning into a bomb due to gas buildup...

OP I would get back onto the management company ASAP and get this fixed.

If it is just a badly installed fan vent then I would block it up until they resolve it. (And block it on the vertical so that any water returns to where it came from rather than dripping into your attic as it does now.)

sonny liston

Met the roofer in the estate today and got him to improve the venting pipes he put in(see attached).


He was pretty sure it was not a soil pipe vent because there was no smell from it. Also because of water droplets he saw on rafters above the vent previously, he thought that it is a steam vent.


I also emailed the management company asking them to find out exactly what is being vented here, and if a better solution needs to be put in place.


Appreciate all the feedback so far!

GreeBo

Can you throw a tape on the pipe and give us the size, perhaps it is a 100/120mm but it doesnt look like it!

Also, is there a fall to the horizontal section to ensure than any drips are going out rather than in (or pooling somewhere that will eventually break and soak your ceiling)

sonny liston

The pipe is 40mm in diameter.


Yes, there is a fall in the horizontal pipe as it moves towards the exit.


Cheers.

GreeBo

sonny liston wrote: »

The pipe is 40mm in diameter.


Yes, there is a fall in the horizontal pipe as it moves towards the exit.


Cheers.

Ok so it is a waste water pipe...worrying.

I would love to see how its connected to the fan...

chooseusername

GreeBo wrote: »

Can you throw a tape on the pipe and give us the size, perhaps it is a 100/120mm but it doesnt look like it!

Also, is there a fall to the horizontal section to ensure than any drips are going out rather than in (or pooling somewhere that will eventually break and soak your ceiling)

I'd say the amount exhaust reaching the loft in a 40 mm pipe with an elbow over 3mtrs is not very much.

100 mm down to 40mm is a reduction of over 80%

sonny liston

Having listened to the feedback here; and after looking at plans of the apartments, and found 100mm extraction fan vents on the side of building, I'm now pretty sure the 40mm pipe in the attic is a soil pipe.
Sorry for the confusion, I was not even aware of soil pipe vents and assumed it was extractor vent.

Is a soil pipe venting into the attic space against building regulations, or just lazy/bad practise?

listermint

sonny liston wrote: »

Having listened to the feedback here; and after looking at plans of the apartments, and found 100mm extraction fan vents on the side of building, I'm now pretty sure the 40mm pipe in the attic is a soil pipe.
Sorry for the confusion, I was not even aware of soil pipe vents and assumed it was extractor vent.

Is a soil pipe venting into the attic space against building regulations, or just lazy/bad practise?

It's against regs. It should be out through the roof. It's meant to vent external to the building and above the top of the block line.

sonny liston

Ok thanks.
Do you know if it would have been against regulations in 2007 when built?
Is there any authority to complain to, force the builder to correct it?

listermint

sonny liston wrote: »

Ok thanks.
Do you know if it would have been against regulations in 2007 when built?
Is there any authority to complain to, force the builder to correct it?

2007! , go back a long long time for this pre 97 I'd say.

No idea. Who you can complain to tbh. Probably on your management company to fight this battle.

dathi

sonny liston wrote: »

Ok thanks.
Do you know if it would have been against regulations in 2007 when built?
Is there any authority to complain to, force the builder to correct it?

1.2.2.12 If the values in Diagram 3 are
exceeded, the branch pipe should be
ventilated by a branch ventilating pipe to
external air, to a discharge stack (modified
single stack system), to a ventilating stack
(ventilated system) or internally by an air
admittance valve complying with I.S. EN
12380: 2002 air admittance valves for
drainage systems - Requirements, test
methods and evaluation of conformity.

taken from part H building regulations TGDs

iwillhtfu

Looking into this a bit more after noticing a soil pipe vent on the gable wall of my own house. Is this pipe an air admittance inlet and not actually a vent at all? apparently these aid the draining of the system for flushing etc.

listermint

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Looking into this a bit more after noticing a soil pipe vent on the gable wall of my own house. Is this pipe an air admittance inlet and not actually a vent at all? apparently these aid the draining of the system for flushing etc.

from description that is your vent system for the soil stack. I suppose you could say they aid draining due to air pressure, but thats not their primary purpose.

iwillhtfu

listermint wrote: »

from description that is your vent system for the soil stack. I suppose you could say they aid draining due to air pressure, but thats not their primary purpose.

I'm just thinking when you pour water from a barrel if you pierce the end of the barrel when pouring it'll poor out easier so makes sense there would be an air inlet at the highest point.

listermint

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'm just thinking when you pour water from a barrel if you pierce the end of the barrel when pouring it'll poor out easier so makes sense there would be an air inlet at the highest point.

no i got it, and technically its correct. But consider the system isnt necessarily pressurised and all your neighbours systems are vented if that makes sense.

GreeBo

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Looking into this a bit more after noticing a soil pipe vent on the gable wall of my own house. Is this pipe an air admittance inlet and not actually a vent at all? apparently these aid the draining of the system for flushing etc.

You have been behind water to aid draining and to prevent siphoning the water from all your other traps.
It also stops gas build up.

iwillhtfu

listermint wrote: »

no i got it, and technically its correct. But consider the system isnt necessarily pressurised and all your neighbours systems are vented if that makes sense.

It's not actually mine I'm just spit balling ideas

SteelyDanJalapeno

I did this very job today in my own house, birds had gotten in and damaged our Flexi pipe before we bought it.
It's a veyr simple job with the right access, get a few metres of the flexipipe below and run it from the extractor fan to an exterior wall or roof vent.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/manrose-pvc-flexible-ducting-hose-white-3m-x-100mm/18232

kravmaga

MicktheMan wrote: »

I doubt the extractor fan is very good in the apartment below.

Its probably a cheap Manrose extractor fan which was put into most apartments built in 2005/2006.

Most developers back then put in the cheapest of materials and charged skyrocket prices for apartments in the celtic tiger boom in the early to mid 2000's.