Feeding minerals to cattle

morphy87

Just looking for some views here on feeding minerals to cattle, the cattle I will be feeding will be stores to be finished off the grass next fall, they will be getting 2 kgs of beef ration and 6 kgs of foddder beet, what do people think of feeding minerals and do you see much benefits and are they exspenive? How much would it cost per head for 130 day housing period?

_Brian

I’d expect the 2kg to have sufficient minerals in them.

Water John

Not that much up on it but I think the fodder beet, whilst a great feed may be lacking in some minerals. Hope Bass Reeves chips in. Know he gives minerals to all his animals and wouldn't be a fella to waste his money, if he didn't think there was a return.
Would like to know better on the subject. Was going to get lick buckets this week. Some do bolus as well.

DBK1

Beet is an excellent feed for cattle but it’s a high in energy and low in protein. 6 kgs wouldn’t be considered a high feed rate for beet but even still you will be better off to feed at least 50 grams per head per day of a high phosphorus high calcium mineral.

More important than the minerals is to balance it for protein. Beet is about 6% protein, store cattle would need a diet balanced to around 13 - 14% protein. Beef ration would be only 14% so more is needed. You’d have 2 options, reduce the beef ration to 1.5 kgs a day and give 0.5kgs of hi-pro soya or forget about the beef ration, soya and minerals and use a beet balancer ration instead.

Beet balancer would be around 22% protein and would have the high phos high calcium minerals included so you’d have everything in the one feed. I use it from Grennans and find it very good as long as you tell them to keep the molasses to a minimum! The only issue would be that most merchants don’t stock it so it’s mixed to order. This means you’d have to be getting minimum 5 ton at a time for them to mix it.

Count Mondego

I would only give nuts to weanlings, decent silage should be enough for stores, and mineral.

memorystick

I just feed silage but everything gets copper going to grass.

Tomjim

what kind of minerals would you give to store bullocks - no meal is fed silage only

morphy87

DBK1 wrote: »

Beet is an excellent feed for cattle but it’s a high in energy and low in protein. 6 kgs wouldn’t be considered a high feed rate for beet but even still you will be better off to feed at least 50 grams per head per day of a high phosphorus high calcium mineral.

More important than the minerals is to balance it for protein. Beet is about 6% protein, store cattle would need a diet balanced to around 13 - 14% protein. Beef ration would be only 14% so more is needed. You’d have 2 options, reduce the beef ration to 1.5 kgs a day and give 0.5kgs of hi-pro soya or forget about the beef ration, soya and minerals and use a beet balancer ration instead.

Beet balancer would be around 22% protein and would have the high phos high calcium minerals included so you’d have everything in the one feed. I use it from Grennans and find it very good as long as you tell them to keep the molasses to a minimum! The only issue would be that most merchants don’t stock it so it’s mixed to order. This means you’d have to be getting minimum 5 ton at a time for them to mix it.

Where I buy my feed this is not possible, if I was to feed the minerals at the recommended rate how much a head would it cost for a 140 day winter? Do you think I should see much improvements by feeding minerals? Thanks for that detailed information

Bass Reeves

Beet is more suitable to a finishing diet than for stores. Finisher's use it as it increased intake. 6kgs has similar energy to 1.5kkgs of barley. I have never fed it so I am not too familiar with it. However it should always be balanced you require calcium and phosphorus with it. Calcium is easy enough to supplement using limestone flour. A lot of cubicle limes are good grade limestone flour. I feed limestone flour to cattle on silage about 15 grams/100kgs. I use a general purpose beef mineral. A lot of mineral manufacturers are putting limestone flour as a base so read the package to confirm.

You really have to look at the ration bag to confirm the inclusion rate of mineral's. Cattle need about 15-20 grand/100kgs bodyweight.

Depending on what you are paying for ration your winter feeding costs are hitting 1.5/day. The problem mid you are putting on flesh not bone. I not sure what you are paying for sugar beet but it is unlikely to be a valuable addition

morphy87

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Beet is more suitable to a finishing diet than for stores. Finisher's use it as it increased intake. 6kgs has similar energy to 1.5kkgs of barley. I have never fed it so I am not too familiar with it. However it should always be balanced you require calcium and phosphorus with it. Calcium is easy enough to supplement using limestone flour. A lot of cubicle limes are good grade limestone flour. I feed limestone flour to cattle on silage about 15 grams/100kgs. I use a general purpose beef mineral. A lot of mineral manufacturers are putting limestone flour as a base so read the package to confirm.

You really have to look at the ration bag to confirm the inclusion rate of mineral's. Cattle need about 15-20 grand/100kgs bodyweight.

Depending on what you are paying for ration your winter feeding costs are hitting 1.5/day. The problem mid you are putting on flesh not bone. I not sure what you are paying for sugar beet but it is unlikely to be a valuable addition

I must check what’s in the ration so, what minerals would you recommend and how much a head a day does it work out? Also do you see much benefits with minerals? One of the main reasons I use beet is because I do be short of silage so the beet covers this deficit

Hershall

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Beet is more suitable to a finishing diet than for stores. Finisher's use it as it increased intake. 6kgs has similar energy to 1.5kkgs of barley. I have never fed it so I am not too familiar with it. However it should always be balanced you require calcium and phosphorus with it. Calcium is easy enough to supplement using limestone flour. A lot of cubicle limes are good grade limestone flour. I feed limestone flour to cattle on silage about 15 grams/100kgs. I use a general purpose beef mineral. A lot of mineral manufacturers are putting limestone flour as a base so read the package to confirm.

You really have to look at the ration bag to confirm the inclusion rate of mineral's. Cattle need about 15-20 grand/100kgs bodyweight.

Depending on what you are paying for ration your winter feeding costs are hitting 1.5/day. The problem mid you are putting on flesh not bone. I not sure what you are paying for sugar beet but it is unlikely to be a valuable addition

I started feeding minerals to store bks at the weekend nutribio 25g per 100kg you wouldnt feel going through a few bags! Will be interesting to see how it goes have never given them before

Bass Reeves

Hershall wrote: »

I started feeding minerals to store bks at the weekend nutribio 25g per 100kg you wouldnt feel going through a few bags! Will be interesting to see how it goes have never given them before

The advantage of feeding minerals cannot really be seen until next spring after turnout. Then they coat faster than cattle that do not get them. Ya if feeding a few cattle you will go through a good few bags. Rate of a lot of minerals is 20grams/100kgs subject to 100grams/head. There is a certain amount of bits and mins in the silage anyway so I consider 15 grams/100kgs. I have 60 stores and I go through a bag a week I have everything housed now and average turn out date is about the 10of march that 17 weeks I will skip 2-3 weeks in the middle of the winter to allow there systems clean out.

I expect to pay about 17/bag and will use 15 bags so total cost will be 255 euro divide by 60 cattle do 4.25/head. Limestone flour will cost About 4.5/bag and will work out at 65euro or 1.10/ head over he winter. So in total 5.35/head or less than 5c/day over the winter.

DBK1

morphy87 wrote: »

Where I buy my feed this is not possible, if I was to feed the minerals at the recommended rate how much a head would it cost for a 140 day winter? Do you think I should see much improvements by feeding minerals? Thanks for that detailed information

Only seeing this now, I think Bass has that well covered above and at 5cent a day I think it’s money well spent.

DBK1

morphy87 wrote: »

I must check what’s in the ration so, what minerals would you recommend and how much a head a day does it work out? Also do you see much benefits with minerals? One of the main reasons I use beet is because I do be short of silage so the beet covers this deficit

Definitely for anyone short on silage beet is far better value than buying silage. A ton of beet is a ton of beet no matter what but you never know what you have buying silage until you open the polythene and at that stage it’s too late!

Bass Reeves

DBK1 wrote: »

Only seeing this now, I think Bass has that well covered above and at 5cent a day I think it’s money well spent.

Even if I fed at the recommended rate it would only be 7c/day and that is including limestone flour as well. Lads often have a mental block when looking at the price of minerals and vitamins. They see the 17/bag and if feeding a few cattle like me and they need a bag every week they go into heart failure. Especially as the bags even though 25kgs look very smallest. However the same lads will call into the local co-op or Merchant on Friday evening or Saturday and pay 7.50/bag for what ever lucky bag they are selling in the line of a beef nut or weanling crunch. They will gladly hand over there 50 euro note for 6-7 bags of it.

Bass Reeves

DBK1 wrote: »

Definitely for anyone short on silage beet is far better value than buying silage. A ton of beet is a ton of beet no matter what but you never know what you have buying silage until you open the polythene and at that stage it’s too late!

I would not agree I bought good dry silage last February delivered for 23/bale. Lad selling was near me and was willing to deliver. At present there is plenty of good silage around. Beet is extra work every evening chopping it and putting it in front of the feed face. Ya the year everyone is short of silage you take what you get. But in general those years I feed 3-4kgs if ration and minimal silage for last few weeks.

But you have to be on top of it. No point looking at the pit or bale stack itching your head the first week n march thinking what will I do. I knew before Christmas I needed silage did a deal with a lad for a load then, when the weather got very bad in February I knew we have a late winter and I took two more loads off him. There was two bad bales and he replaced them.

morphy87

Has anyone here tryed the Euro bloc minerals,these are the minerals that are blocks on a roll, and if used what did ye make of them?

gerrymx115

morphy87 wrote: »

Where I buy my feed this is not possible, if I was to feed the minerals at the recommended rate how much a head would it cost for a 140 day winter? Do you think I should see much improvements by feeding minerals? Thanks for that detailed information

Larger animals will have a higher demand for minerals. Also the demand will be higher if there is a deficiency of certain minerals in animal. if you put a bucket lick in front of animals that never seen minerals they will absolutely motor through it. each man has his own views, but here bolus is mainly used. use mastervet bolus, box of 12 is 70 euro in co op. less than 6 euro a bolus, 2 per year, will last for 5 or 6 months. started doing this a few years ago and very happy with results. cows go in calf easier, clean straight away at calving, calves are born easier and hardier and animals look healthier and have a much cleaner coat etc. Putting it simply, your losing money through reduced thrive/health etc by not giving some form of mineral

Count Mondego

morphy87 wrote: »

Has anyone here tryed the Euro bloc minerals,these are the minerals that are blocks on a roll, and if used what did ye make of them?

Is that a mineral lock that you hang up in the pen? If it is, my merchant told me that they were a great job and would last a pen of cattle 2 weeks. They had it gone in 2 days. I'd imagine they're so bored all day they never left it alone.

Jb1989

Count Mondego wrote: »

Is that a mineral lock that you hang up in the pen? If it is, my merchant told me that they were a great job and would last a pen of cattle 2 weeks. They had it gone in 2 days. I'd imagine they're so bored all day they never left it alone.

They ate them blocks quickly if they lacking in a certain vitamins, once there vitamin def has been rectified they slow down on the licking, there is very little mollases in them to make them overly palatable for boredom licking.

Who2

im using the blocks this year. cows with calves are went through a couple fairly swiftly, anything that is on silage only is barely using them and anything getting meal is barely touched.

richie123

Would anyone have any link to independent studies or trials showing the benefits of feeding minerals to store cattle ?

White Clover

richie123 wrote: »

Would anyone have any link to independent studies or trials showing the benefits of feeding minerals to store cattle ?

I'd imagine it's really farm specific. I feed minerals due to blood samples indicating low levels of copper, selenium and iodine. The land would be heavy and high in molybdenum.
If you farm a nice loam soil or over limestone, chances are you need not offer any extra minerals to stock.

richie123

White Clover wrote: »

I'd imagine it's really farm specific. I feed minerals due to blood samples indicating low levels of copper, selenium and iodine. The land would be heavy and high in molybdenum.
If you farm a nice loam soil or over limestone, chances are you need not offer any extra minerals to stock.

Ya true it would be farm specific
I'm just wondering is there any independently verified studies trials to show that feeding minerals to store cattle is of any benefit?
Huge money spent by farmers on minerals every year and nothing but hearsay/circumstancial evidence.
I've never fed minerals and don't see any benefits.
Paid **** all for beef so why would i spend more on something that's not returning in the first place ?
No one seems to question this.
A link to one decent study a large scale one too that's shows any benefits as I can't find one.

_Brian

White Clover wrote: »

I'd imagine it's really farm specific. I feed minerals due to blood samples indicating low levels of copper, selenium and iodine. The land would be heavy and high in molybdenum.
If you farm a nice loam soil or over limestone, chances are you need not offer any extra minerals to stock.

We’re on low selenium and high iron content. High iron content blocks the uptake of Cooper.
We bolus all trace at turnout and meal has mineral over winter.

Have seen improvements in thrive and health since starting the bolus and haven’t needed a copper injection since which is a bonus.

Count Mondego

Jb1989 wrote: »

They ate them blocks quickly if they lacking in a certain vitamins, once there vitamin def has been rectified they slow down on the licking, there is very little mollases in them to make them overly palatable for boredom licking.

They're full of salt, cattle love salt.

jntsnk

It’s worth blood testing the animals. Got the vet to do it during my herd test day. Animals here were low on Selenium. On one of the farms , where all the young stick would go, the soil test found it was low then, so spreading selenium in the fertilizer also. Best money I spent on animal performance. I’d rather bolus than blanket cover silage with minerals, it can be hit or miss on the latter.

Bass Reeves

Count Mondego wrote: »

They're full of salt, cattle love salt.

Cattle require a huge amount of salt every day. I have heard of figures of 100 grams per day. It back to if there is a deficiency cattle will try to correct it if they have access to it.

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cattle require a huge amount of salt every day. I have heard of figures of 100 grams per day. It back to if there is a deficiency cattle will try to correct it if they have access to it.

Sure what does that mean ?if kept giving a child chocolate they'll stay eating it

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Sure what does that mean ?if kept giving a child chocolate they'll stay eating it

What it means is that using licks or buckets can work out expensive. Cattle will often consume huge amounts as they may be short or 1-2 elements on the block or buckets. As another poster alluded to they can get bored as well in a shed and lick it out of boredom.

Cattle require large quanties of salt or calcium and when these are in block form they may lick away to address an imbalance in them. I bought Rick salt a few years ago. I was feeding minerals with it. I could not keep the rocks in front of the pens for the first 10-12days after than consumption slowed back by 50-60%.

For this reason it hard to beat bagged minerals, salt or limestone flour. Jut read the directions on the minerals to find how much the cattle are getting of them and top up with straight salt or calcium

MfMan

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What it means is that using licks or buckets can work out expensive. Cattle will often consume huge amounts as they may be short or 1-2 elements on the block or buckets. As another poster alluded to they can get bored as well in a shed and lick it out of boredom.

Cattle require large quanties of salt or calcium and when these are in block form they may lick away to address an imbalance in them. I bought Rick salt a few years ago. I was feeding minerals with it. I could not keep the rocks in front of the pens for the first 10-12days after than consumption slowed back by 50-60%.

For this reason it hard to beat bagged minerals, salt or limestone flour. Jut read the directions on the minerals to find how much the cattle are getting of them and top up with straight salt or calcium

On this point, would it be beneficial to throw on fists of ordinary salt randomly into the silage when pit-filling? Would it's potency be lost or effective?