Advertisement
If you have a new account but can't post, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help to verify your email address. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Who will be Ireland's 1st choice outhalf at the next world cup?

  • 11-11-2020 8:55am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Who ye got?

    Contenders ordered by age as of Sept 1st 2023:
    1. Jack Carty(31/Connacht)
    2. Billy Burns(29/Ulster)
    3. Ross Byrne(28/Leinster)
    4. Joey Carbery(27/Munster)
    5. Conor Fitzgerald(26/Connacht)
    6. Michael Lowry(25/Ulster)
    7. Ben Healy(24/Munster)
    8. Harry Byrne(24/Leinster)
    9. Jack Crowley(23/Munster)

    Who is 1st choice outhalf at the 2023 World Cup? 236 votes

    Jack Carty
    75% 178 votes
    Billy Burns
    1% 4 votes
    Ross Byrne
    0% 2 votes
    Joey Carbery
    0% 2 votes
    Conor Fitzgerald
    6% 15 votes
    Michael Lowry
    0% 1 vote
    Ben Healy
    0% 1 vote
    Harry Byrne
    5% 14 votes
    Jack Crowley
    6% 16 votes
    Other
    1% 3 votes


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,224 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    I still think Joey Carbery is the most naturally gifted outhalf we've produced since Sexton so if fit he would be my pick.

    I really don't know after that - Harry Byrne looks like he might have the widest skill set combined with good athleticism.

    Sexton is arguably one of the best players we've ever produced in any position - it's going to be an incredibly tough act to follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ aloooof


    There’s an alternative possibility (like 2011) where we end up going into the tournament not knowing who our 1st choice 10 is.

    England managed it in 2019 where Farrell started all 6N games at 10 but they played the RWC semi-final and final with 10. Ford 12. Farrell. But I don’t think we currently have anyone of that calibre.

    I’m hoping this indefinite break for Carbery will help solve his injury issues. Even then, pinning you hopes on him comes with risk given his injury profile. I think one of Carbery or Harry Byrne


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 33,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pickarooney


    Hopefully one of 5-8 will have staked his claim.
    I don't rate Carty as a starting international 10, Ross Byrne is bang average, Billy Burns could have improved his game by then or might have moved on, Carbery is finished. Never heard of the last guy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ hahashake


    No Sexton?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    Carbery and Healy ahead of the pack so far. Realistically, we can't have two 10s who could be starting for Ireland fighting for game time at the same province. One will surely have to move...


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭ partyjungle


    Could be quite the drought of mediocrity after Sexton retires


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,214 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Carbery and Healy ahead of the pack so far. Realistically, we can't have two 10s who could be starting for Ireland fighting for game time at the same province. One will surely have to move...

    carbery and H Byrne


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    Ha, you're right. How did I see that wrong! :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 kingofthekong


    As far as talent goes I think Carberry and H byrne are two best,

    However its so far out with injuries and form its so hard to tell,

    As of right now presuming all fit - Carberry and H Byrne look the most likely for me


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    I still don't think Carberry is the answer. He failed to bump RB at Leinster and was playing at fb! His injury profile is alarming also.
    RB, Carty are leading the also ranks imo. Burns is worth a look at, but he doesn't take the kicks at Ulster.
    Healy and HB are the lads to keep an eye on. They both look very capable.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ aloooof


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    I still don't think Carberry is the answer. He failed to bump RB at Leinster and was playing at fb!

    I'm not sure it's that simple, as it wasn't like Ross Byrne was 10 and Carberry in the 22 jersey. My take is that they preferred to have the combination of
    10. RB
    14. Larmour
    15. Carbery

    over, say
    10. Carbery
    14. Daly
    15. Larmour
    22. Byrne

    What we can say for certain is that, at any opportunity an international level, Carbery has been ahead of RB.

    I do agree with you tho, his injury worries are a massive concern.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,214 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    so sexton starts at 12 then???


    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,445 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    hahashake wrote: »
    No Sexton?

    Absolutely no sexton. He’s been a great servant and a real positive to the team, but he’s winding down now. He’s in the phase of the game where he used to do things, doesn’t do those things anymore but still gets credit for it. Hearing sexton referred to as a running threat is just a lie at this stage. And I heard a podcast talking about how he “carries the ball so close the the line“ and that’s also not true anymore.

    Anyone noticed the reduction in the late hits on sexton recently? That’s because he’s not carrying the ball as close to the line but he still gets credit for the work he did in 2017 as if he’s was doing it in 2020.

    And as long as there isn’t an obvious, readymade, replacement for sexton, it’s excusable to pretend he’s still playing at 2017 levels. But at some point we have to pull the plug and shake his hand and tell him “thanks for all the hard work”.

    I hope that next year they draw a line under the sexton era and start playing H Byrne and Carbery if he makes it back from injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,026 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.

    You genuinely think Sexton will be starting at 38 years old?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ aloooof


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.

    3 years is a long time in rugby at the best of times, let alone for a 35 year old out-half. Personally think you're way off the mark here.

    As for the "delusional" comment, it's just condescending, hubristic and adds zero to the conversation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭ briandebum


    I do try and make the effort to watch the U-20s every year. I think if Crowley gets the gametime he could be special. But I also thought Bill Johnston was also the best upcoming outhalf at that level, goes to show how hard it is to predict these guys careers. So much comes down to injuries and also opportunity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    I hope Sexton is done by the next rwc. He's not the player he was and will decline more with age. I hope someone else takes the reins.
    It is a shame what happened with Jackson. I think he would be starting if he was still playing here in Ireland.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Neil3030


    I reckon it will be one of Carbery, Healy or H Byrne.

    For the sake of a punt, I'll say Healy. He really seems to tick more boxes at his age than anyone else I've seen in quite some time.

    However, the wildcard here for me is Craig Casey. Size is the obvious issue, but if he can get into the Munster team ahead of Murray, that could decide Ireland's 10 in 2023. Because I just don't see a 10 developing core strategic skills at the highest level when the 9 is making all the decisions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭ theVersatile


    Joey if he stays fit - if he doesn't then it could be anyone really.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,445 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Joey if he stays fit - if he doesn't then it could be anyone really.

    Any player who has been out for that long has to be reintroduced with skepticism and has to re-earn their place. Joey has been out for over a year and has no estimated return date yet.

    I hope he can get back to where he was but I’d take nothing for granted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭ partyjungle


    It's really bad that I can't confidently choose anyone from that poll. Carbery if fit I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭ Uriel.


    It's really bad that I can't confidently choose anyone from that poll. Carbery if fit I guess.

    That's because there is a glaring omission..
    Mads to come back to D4 and lead Ireland to a WC semi final, tears and all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    Alternatively, who will be our 9?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,641 Dog Botherer


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Alternatively, who will be our 9?

    i’ll do it


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭ KaneToad


    Ciaran Frawley


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭ Heres Johnny


    No 38 year old will be playing 10 for Ireland, or any other country for that matter, in the next world cup. Think there may have been 1 or 2 forwards of that age for tier 2 or 3 nations in the past but not for a contending team. Even the great Dan Carter knew his time in black was up in 2015 and he was 33 or so then. BOD too.
    I commend sextons drive to want to be there, but it just ain't happening folks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,445 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    No 38 year old will be playing 10 for Ireland, or any other country for that matter, in the next world cup. Think there may have been 1 or 2 forwards of that age for tier 2 or 3 nations in the past but not for a contending team. Even the great Dan Carter knew his time in black was up in 2015 and he was 33 or so then. BOD too.
    I commend sextons drive to want to be there, but it just ain't happening folks.

    I think it’s unlikely but there’s a clear path to being forced to play him: There isn’t a clear successor and most of the best candidates are very young and inexperienced at the top level. Johnny was a world class player and has the influence of a tip top player so it won’t be easy to drop him while he’s still better than his potential replacements.

    So they could end up continuing with Sexton until it’s too late to try the new guys. How long until we start hearing talk of “what he brings to the dressing room”, which is code for “not doing it on the pitch but it feels comfortable to play him anyway”.

    It’s also difficult for a coach to drop him. If they play Sexton and lose then it’s everyone’s fault. If you drop sexton and lose then it’s the coach’s fault. Much easier to just keep playing him this year and next year and hope a player comes along to usurp him so they don’t have to make the difficult decision to drop him or not give him another year’s contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 kingofthekong


    I think it’s unlikely but there’s a clear path to being forced to play him: There isn’t a clear successor and most of the best candidates are very young and inexperienced at the top level. Johnny was a world class player and has the influence of a tip top player so it won’t be easy to drop him while he’s still better than his potential replacements.

    So they could end up continuing with Sexton until it’s too late to try the new guys. How long until we start hearing talk of “what he brings to the dressing room”, which is code for “not doing it on the pitch but it feels comfortable to play him anyway”.

    It’s also difficult for a coach to drop him. If they play Sexton and lose then it’s everyone’s fault. If you drop sexton and lose then it’s the coach’s fault. Much easier to just keep playing him this year and next year and hope a player comes along to usurp him so they don’t have to make the difficult decision to drop him or not give him another year’s contract.

    Could end up seeing some kind of Rog/sexton situation at the 2011 rwc - except this time its Sexton being in Rog's shoes


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ CMcsporty


    Could end up seeing some kind of Rog/sexton situation at the 2011 rwc - except this time its Sexton being in Rog's shoes

    Sexton's contract is up at the end of the season.
    It wont be renewed. Bon voyage to Pro14

    I've voted for Carbery. But he does look too frail considering his injuries.
    He may have to get moved to FB to protect him a bit more and also allow Crowley to emerge.
    Prob the best medium to long term plan considering the lack of depth at FB.
    Fingers crossed Harry Byrne is also the real deal.


Advertisement