Covid19 working from home arrangements.

patrafter7

Hi,

How are people coping in general with working from home during the pandemic?

dennyk

I'd been working from home for over a year before the pandemic started anyway, and a few months ago I changed to a new job that's also 100% remote even post-COVID, so it's been no different for me. I love working from home myself; no commute to take up time, just roll out of bed, hit the shower, and boot up the laptop. I live alone, so there's no distractions or anything to worry about. I've always been quite the hermit as it is, though, even before the pandemic, so not leaving the house or interacting with anyone else in person for days at a time is kinda my thing anyway. Guess folks who miss the social aspects of work are probably having a difficult time of it, and those with different living situations at home (roommates, tiny studios/bedsits, etc.) might find it hard as well, though. I'm very fortunate that I've the temperament for full-time WFH and a suitable living situation to support it.

LegacyUser

Absoulety awful. I have started a new job as a graduate and I moved out of home as I felt like I was annoying my parents by living at home so have moved into a house share.

Feel like I'm not part of the company at all and I am completely isolated. Can't wait to be back in the office and at least get to know my co-workers.

ednwireland

patrafter7 wrote: »

Hi,

How are people coping in general with working from home during the pandemic?

been back in the office since june !

theres 2 of us in on either ends of the floor

my broadbands terrible at home so thats left to the OH (works ok for one person)

the company havent provided anything but most people robbed monitors and chairs from the office

John Hutton

Initially I loved it because my 70 plus mins commute each way is gone.

However, I have found some difficulties in managing staff and maintaining motivation (including my own).

I also feel like I never leave the house.

All in all though I still prefer it.

I think I would like 1 or 2 days a week in the office, I am worried (long term) that I am missing out on networking and other opportunities (I work in a massive office).

California Dreamer

No commute - great
Roll out of bed 5 mins before first meeting - great
Extended smoke/lunch/tipping point breaks - great

At home all day/night - not great
No break from family - not great
More irritable - not great
Overall more angry - not great

Have gone back to counseling that I was doing a few years ago to get me over the hump.

2 hour commute saved.
1 car declared off the road.
roll out of bed and into work.
See more of my family.
can get more done at home.
will be home till at least next summer.

whats not to love looking at the beach from my home office.

qwerty13

Agree so much re 2 hours and more knocked off my commute, a better standard of life in general, and life just being so much more flexible in terms of even simple things, like washing clothes during the day. Batch cooking at lunchtime. I actually get a lot of household jobs done in 10 minute bursts, and have so much more free time. Don’t have to take a half day for deliveries or workmen for the house. I now have entire weekends free. And not because I doss during the week - because I genuinely have the opportunity to get personal stuff done.

I personally don’t miss the office chit chat at all. I have a bit of an extra chat before a few Skype calls.

However, there’s noises being made by I’d say by far less than 10% or so that they feel so isolated / want a return to office set up. The rest of my colleagues are just willing them to shut up, before they ruin our far better quality of life.

My fear is that the the ‘I need thousands spent to set me up at home’ small % of my workplace are going to scare my employer in case they get sued, and the rest of us have to give up the best workplace change that we could ever have imagined. There would have been some (reluctant) wfh before COVID, but it is working so well for most of us, and we’d have had to fight for this for years on end without the virus. Long may it continue (the wfh, not the virus!)

I’m more than happy to have a little portable radiator beside me, and use my kitchen table. My life is so much better since wfh

_Brian

Haven’t been in our office since Feb and absolutely don’t miss it. While there are a few friends in there I share an office side with allot of toxic individuals and being away from them is a joy. I think I was there once in Jan and Feb each. So two visits for the whole year is a win

I’m at home I’m very low workload which is very odd, majority of my job is out on sites.

I actually get on better with work when herself isn’t wfh as well. Loving doing all the school drop and pick ups.

Have a good sized house and we farm also so there’s plenty to be doing when I’m off with such low workload. The covid work situation has been good for me.

mojesius

I'm on maternity leave currently but was wfh since March. I absolutely loved it. Saving 12 hours a week commute, saving money on clothes, petrol, make up etc.

My work involves collaborating with people in Asia and US so I have no problem now starting early or joining for a late meeting, whereas before you'd be staying in the office late or trying to catch first and last trains.

Mostly, it gives me back so much time to do the things I love, spend time with family, cooking, getting outdoors. My dog seems to prefer it as well

The perfect arrangement for me would be 1 day in the office, max 2 per week. Still waiting for the long term plans for wfh for our company, but they've hinted it will be 2-3 days in office once vaccine is widely available.

I can't see myself ever going back to a job with 5 days in the office.

patrafter7

Im working from home while my wife minds our 3 kids all of whom are under 5. It can be challenging at times. The organisation l work for are extremely busy and l often have to work additional hours without extra pay or time off in lieu. Guess those of us who have jobs are lucky in the current circumstances.

beauf

That's sounds very challenging. Even without the lockdown.

It's much easier when the kids are older, though you run into needing more desks and computers as do the kids are using them for school and then games etc. So you need a dedicated space away from them.

I effectively hot desk around the house depending on who is at at home and what they are doing.

patrafter7

Can certainly be a challenge at times. I'm wondering do many employers give time off in lieu to staff working remotely for additional hours that need to be worked to meet targets? I'm finding I'm working an extra 4-5 hours extra every week on average.

Sunny Dayz

I’m a mixed bag with WFH. I didn’t have a commute to work before, it’s 5 mins away. I liked not having to get ready for work, so I’d go for a walk or a run before work, home quick shower and eat breakfast while logging in. My own workload was handy to do from home, less interruptions. But other things my job entails - managing junior staff, work review, file completion - that’s all much quicker in the office.

ELM327

patrafter7 wrote: »

Can certainly be a challenge at times. I'm wondering do many employers give time off in lieu to staff working remotely for additional hours that need to be worked to meet targets? I'm finding I'm working an extra 4-5 hours extra every week on average.

That's on you IMO.

whippet

Myself and the wife have been working from home for years now - but I always had the option to pop in to the office, customer or out for lunch with colleagues .. which I dearly miss

Pre-COVID my work-life balance was superb .. but now I’d love to be able to pop in to town for a day - have lunch with some customers or workmates etc

ELM327

I was working from home prior to covid 1-2 days a week.
My team of 6 is global, we have heads in Singapore, US, and here, so it doesnt matter where I am, the work is the same.

In that vein, my role is almost unaffected.

Antares35

Love it..was WFH for the last ten weeks of pregnancy and convinced that avoiding the five day a week rat race into the city contributed to quick recovery and zero complications. (In fact, some early studies into a drastic decrease in the number of premature births suggest a correlation between women WFH and better pregnancy outcomes). OH also WFH so has been here for us the whole time. Saved a load on parking, petrol, pet sitter etc.

Can't ever see myself going back to Monday-Friday 9-5 to be honest, throwing the child into a creche for ten hours a day and sitting in traffic for three. Ideally, I'd like to to one day at the office and four at home, loading all the meetings into that one day.

Work life balance has never been better and productivity hasn't suffered at all. I get that isolation is a factor for some people, but I think it's a strange trade off to want to go back to that because you're lonely, and sacrifice family time.

Edit, I should add I've been lucky. I've an amazing boss who more or less said they don't mind when the work.is done so long as it gets done, so I've had huge flexibility in that regard.

WFH almost exclusively since March and although initially I didn't love it as much as I thought I would an investment in a nice desk and chair has made all the difference. The downside I would say is I find I work more hours (salaried so no overtime) and as other colleagues aren't keeping regular hours due to family commitments there's a blurring of when I should/shouldn't be working to get team projects done. I think a day or two in the office and the rest at home would suit me....let's see what my Company thinks :P

jmlad2020

Feel sorry for those poor extroverts on this thread who just can't handle the lack of human interaction associated with WFH. Before the pandemic I could not go on much longer working in a bull**** office environment.. awkward water cooler chat, pretending to work and the counting down the hours.

I much prefer it, but of course the office has its place when needed, for myself that would potentially be 1-2 days per week when required, but I suspect a lot of my weeks could be entirely WFH. Good riddance to being a full time office-bot.

patrafter7

Does anyone get to take flexi leave for additional hours worked from home?

bluestrattos

I love WFH, no commuting, no crowded trains/luas, it's just awesome.

At home, it's just me and my wife, and we have a dedicated home office, good/fast broadband, quiet neighbors, so overall, I can't complain.

If I had kids, I would definitively prefer to be away from home as long as possible, that is: work in a office and take a long commute.

I'm much more productive at home, no distractions, no "visits" to my desk.

I will detest the day I'll have to return to the office

Antares35

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Feel sorry for those poor extroverts on this thread who just can't handle the lack of human interaction associated with WFH. Before the pandemic I could not go on much longer working in a bull**** office environment.. awkward water cooler chat, pretending to work and the counting down the hours.

I much prefer it, but of course the office has its place when needed, for myself that would potentially be 1-2 days per week when required, but I suspect a lot of my weeks could be entirely WFH. Good riddance to being a full time office-bot.

Yup, I know someone who is in an at risk group and really should know better, who insisted on coming into the office even against public health and company advice. This person lives with just her husband and they have a dedicated office at home, but she couldn't bear staying at home because there was nobody to listen to her there. I'm much more productive WFH because I don't have to spend all day being interrupted by her. Sad really to have to go to work just for company. Wonder how her husband feels about that.

beauf

patrafter7 wrote: »

Hi,
How are people coping in general with working from home during the pandemic?

Work is fine, but I share spaces with the rest of the family. So I'm pretty much hot desking around the house. Which is a little convoluted. So I have to unplug and replug monitor, and peripherals every time I move.

I suspect many in my office can't wait to back in the office. They like doing everything unstructured and unplanned and WFH requires discipline especially managing things.

It has cut down on the brain fart ad hoc requests you get. Since people can't charge their mind every five minutes.

beauf

patrafter7 wrote: »

Can certainly be a challenge at times. I'm wondering do many employers give time off in lieu to staff working remotely for additional hours that need to be worked to meet targets? I'm finding I'm working an extra 4-5 hours extra every week on average.

You've a load of different issues there.
Extra hours are extra hours. It's working for free unless it's rewarded in some way.

.

patrafter7

beauf wrote: »

You've a load of different issues there.
Extra hours are extra hours. It's working for free unless it's rewarded in some way.

.

Yes you're right, it is working for free under such circumstances.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Extra hours are extra hours. It's working for free unless it's rewarded in some way.

.

Not if he is paid a salary.

beauf

salonfire wrote: »

Not if he is paid a salary.

Once extra hours becomes normal, and is not rewarded. You've effectively agreed to degrade your terms and conditions. You probably get better terms somewhere else. Rarely have I seen working more for less be beneficial in the long run.

qwerty13

I think doing some extra hours, when really needed in order to push something over the line, demonstrates flexibility / commitment and does tend to be appreciated. If not directly in terms of a salary review, it puts you slightly ahead in terms of promotion and increases.

The problem lies in when the extra hours become habitual. That suggests to me either poor planning/communication by upper management, or perhaps poor planning/prioritisation/work patterns/communication on the part of the employee. Or a combination of the two.

Habitual extra hours do not tend (in my experience) to get rewarded or even recognised all that much.

TheSheriff

Really don't like WFH......not suited to it.

Hoping to get back to the office asap

FlubberJones

WFH is repetitive and boring, the lockdown simply enhances that with not being able to break the monotony with a trip to the shops.
As a manager I would prefer to be in the office half the week, I could do with catching up with the team, not that I have to as I have said to them if they wish to be full time at home they can. Thankfully the majority wish t attend to some degree also.

patrafter7

In my situation unfortunately only office based staff can take flexible leave for additional hours worked. Staff WFH who have no choice because they have been asked to WFH to make space (2m distance) are not allowed take this flexible leave for additional hours worked.

dennyk

patrafter7 wrote: »

In my situation unfortunately only office based staff can take flexible leave for additional hours worked. Staff WFH who have no choice because they have been asked to WFH to make space (2m distance) are not allowed take this flexible leave for additional hours worked.

That either sounds like a contract violation (if the flexi-leave terms are defined there) or a good reason to stop putting in overtime.

beauf

dennyk wrote: »

That either sounds like a contract violation (if the flexi-leave terms are defined there) or a good reason to stop putting in overtime.

I think thats the rule across the Civil service and Public Sector, and probably common in the private sector also.

If you are overloaded at work, but just keep doing it, no one will stop you.

It will only stop once it becomes someone else's problem, that has the power to change things. Or you change it yourself.

dazberry

My o/h works night shifts (7 days), and I'm 9 to 5ish m-f but am in an American company so due to timezones quite often I'll end having to get back online later in the evenings.

Everything is just really really awkward, and there are just so many conflicting things that overlap and compete time wise. During the "on" week - missing the 9am start because someone wants to debrief - creeping around the house trying not to make any noise - maybe trying to get uniforms washed and dried, being the wake up call and inevitably someone wants to chat again - maybe being on dinner duty the odd time. In the meantime trying to work with ppl in the US were we only overlap between 4 and 5pm (subject to daylight savings time) - sometimes having to get back on line later in the evening. Then the "off" week you have someone that's bored, and you get another set of distractions, any after hour work in the "off" week causes huge conflict.

The thing about going to an office was that I could compartmentalise this a lot better, and I was able to maintain a much better routine. This is all a struggle

ongarboy

There is definitely a psychological exit when you left the office building for the day and even the commute home was an unwinding opportunity. I feel that separation and release doesn't exist in the same way by flipping your laptop shut and walking the 6 feet to your kitchen/living room etc at the end of the work day. I actually enjoyed my 30 minute train ride into work in the mornings too as it gave me downtime to read the news, text friends, catch up on social media or just mentally prepare before facing the day's work.

I worked for American multi nationals for years where WFH was allowed up to 2 days a week but I always opted to work in the office as I felt more productive and comfortable there with a proper ergonomic swivel chair, keyboard, printer and two giant monitors and better headsets for the endless conference calls. I only previously WFH if I was expecting a tradesman, delivery or had something special planned for straight after work.

A blend of both is probably the best future state model where employees can opt for as much as or little work at the office as suits theirs and their department's circumstances.

beauf

Some people do a virtual commute. They go for a 10-20 min walk around the block and back before starting and when then when they finish. This seems like a good idea.

Mrs OBumble

beauf wrote: »

Some people do a virtual commute. They go for a 10-20 min walk around the block and back before starting and when then when they finish. This seems like a good idea.

Yes, I do this. Makes an enormous difference to how I feel.

The feeling of getting up, eating some toast and sitting straight down to the laptop is just horrible.

I call it a fake commute.

Even if the weather is horrible I at least walk down the stairs to the front door, open it and look outside at the rain.

jmlad2020

If an employer doesn't offer some degree of WFH in the future then it will be a massive deal breaker for me. I personally can't stand the office environment.

dennyk

dennyk wrote: »

That either sounds like a contract violation (if the flexi-leave terms are defined there) or a good reason to stop putting in overtime.

If it is civil service, it's not a contract violation. Flexi time working does not form part of the civil service terms and conditions of employment.

Basically, within the CS, flexi time is a privilege but not a right, and each department can operate the flexi time scheme to suit their business needs.

CS can still work flexi hours from home, but DPER suspended the ability to accrue flexi leave across the board for those WFH back in April.

beauf

Public sector mirrored that in many of not all also.

AndrewJRenko

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Feel sorry for those poor extroverts on this thread who just can't handle the lack of human interaction associated with WFH. Before the pandemic I could not go on much longer working in a bull**** office environment.. awkward water cooler chat, pretending to work and the counting down the hours.

I much prefer it, but of course the office has its place when needed, for myself that would potentially be 1-2 days per week when required, but I suspect a lot of my weeks could be entirely WFH. Good riddance to being a full time office-bot.

I'm generally introverted, but I'd be keen to get back to the office for more social interaction. I'm not the party animal type, but I do enjoy the coffee chats or lunchtime chats that enable getting beyond a purely work-based relationship.

I also this it is fairly awful that employers have done a land grab to take private space from the homes of their employees for work purposes without any payment, but that's a different issue.

qwerty13 wrote: »

However, there’s noises being made by I’d say by far less than 10% or so that they feel so isolated / want a return to office set up. The rest of my colleagues are just willing them to shut up, before they ruin our far better quality of life.

My fear is that the the ‘I need thousands spent to set me up at home’ small % of my workplace are going to scare my employer in case they get sued, and the rest of us have to give up the best workplace change that we could ever have imagined. There would have been some (reluctant) wfh before COVID, but it is working so well for most of us, and we’d have had to fight for this for years on end without the virus. Long may it continue (the wfh, not the virus!)

I'm one of those small percentage, but I'm not trying to get anyone else forced back to the office. I am expecting that my employer will revert to providing office space for me at the earliest, reasonably safe opportunity. The fact that I will be very much in the minority will make it easy enough to achieve social distancing in the workplace.

It's not an either/or scenario.

qwerty13

qwerty13 wrote: »

I personally don’t miss the office chit chat at all. I have a bit of an extra chat before a few Skype calls.

However, there’s noises being made by I’d say by far less than 10% or so that they feel so isolated / want a return to office set up. The rest of my colleagues are just willing them to shut up, before they ruin our far better quality of life.

You know this is probably one of the most selfish things I have heard. You have no idea what is going on with your colleagues that want to get back to the office. Did you ever think maybe the isolation is getting to them? Not everyone copes the same way with being on their own 24/7. Also ever stop to think that maybe they are in an abusive relationship and getting to the office is their only saving grace? Please have a think about it before making comments about how they are going to ruin things for the rest of ye that are content to work from home.

qwerty13

Littlefinger wrote: »

You know this is probably one of the most selfish things I have heard. You have no idea what is going on with your colleagues that want to get back to the office. Did you ever think maybe the isolation is getting to them? Not everyone copes the same way with being on their own 24/7. Also ever stop to think that maybe they are in an abusive relationship and getting to the office is their only saving grace? Please have a think about it before making comments about how they are going to ruin things for the rest of ye that are content to work from home.

Equally, why don’t *you* stop to think that there might be people working from home who are terrified of being forced back into an office environment as they’re protecting a loved one by having far less contact with people than normal. Or people whose anxiety is through the roof at the thoughts of being pushed back into an office setting. Or those who have always found the daily ‘banter’ and interaction with others a bit of a stress, and are thriving working from home. Or people whose family life and relationships has improved through less commuting time, and more interactive family time. Or those who can’t drive and would worry about getting public transport. Or those who were being bullied at work and and grateful for a bit of distance working from home.

Works both ways kiddo.

qwerty13

qwerty13 wrote: »

Equally, why don’t *you* stop to think that there might be people working from home who are terrified of being forced back into an office environment as they’re protecting a loved one by having far less contact with people than normal. Or people whose anxiety is through the roof at the thoughts of being pushed back into an office setting. Or those who have always found the daily ‘banter’ and interaction with others a bit of a stress, and are thriving working from home. Or people whose family life and relationships has improved through less commuting time, and more interactive family time. Or those who can’t drive and would worry about getting public transport. Or those who were being bullied at work and and grateful for a bit of distance working from home.

Works both ways kiddo.

Kiddo? Seriously there is zero need to be patronising. You are coming across as incredibly self entitled in your posts . Like I said everyone's situation is different but you do not get to say that people who want back to offices are ruining it for everyone else. By your logic you ruining it for them by wanting to stay at home.

qwerty13

My point was that we can both come up with outliers of extremes as to why people want to work from the office, or at home. I just quoted the wfh outliers right back at you. Your list of outliers doesn’t give you some sort of moral high ground, and neither does mine.

From my workplace, over 90% have in an anonymous staff survey said that they want to continue to working from home, acknowledging that their presence may be required for training, occasional meetings etc. Some people have said they’d like the option to do 1 to 2 days a week max, when we come out the other side of the pandemic.

My issue is that where I work, there’s a lot noise coming from a very small number of people about preferring to be back 5 days a week in an office when we get through Covid times (and they don’t just mean “when it’s declared over”. This stuff started in the summer). Sure we can both quote outliers for either scenario, but the small % are rattling cages about it at the moment, and my friends and I are really hoping that it’s not going to get to a situation where flexibility gets eroded, and we’re all back to a long commute and the rest 5 days a week, ie losing the gains in a flexible wfh culture that would have taken years if not a decade more to achieve.

Antares35

Littlefinger wrote: »

You know this is probably one of the most selfish things I have heard. You have no idea what is going on with your colleagues that want to get back to the office. Did you ever think maybe the isolation is getting to them? Not everyone copes the same way with being on their own 24/7. Also ever stop to think that maybe they are in an abusive relationship and getting to the office is their only saving grace? Please have a think about it before making comments about how they are going to ruin things for the rest of ye that are content to work from home.

While I agree the post could have been worded better, I personally know people who just have nothing going on at home and miss the incessant gossip and idle chit chat, something which reduced my own productivity at times when I had to listen to it.

Are we all meant to trudge back to the dreary, insane commute which for some people represents an extra working day per week, in case other people are suffering domestic abuse?

Ever stop to think that families, especially those with the responsibility of young children, are actually better off because they have some semblance of a life and work/ life balance now? Are we meant to go back to dumping our kids in crèche ten hours a day because other people need a distraction?

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

Ever stop to think that families, especially those with the responsibility of young children, are actually better off because they have some semblance of a life and work/ life balance now? Are we meant to go back to dumping our kids in crèche ten hours a day because other people need a distraction?

It sounds like you need to find a job which is a better fit for your lifestyle.

Even if you're WFH, your kids need to be in creche, or in the care of another adult, while you are working. You may have gotten away with not doing this during the public health emergency, but companies are not going to allow you to be distracted during the working day in normal circumstances.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It sounds like you need to find a job which is a better fit for your lifestyle.

Even if you're WFH, your kids need to be in creche, or in the care of another adult, while you are working. You may have gotten away with not doing this during the public health emergency, but companies are not going to allow you to be distracted during the working day in normal circumstances.

Excuse you, who do you think you are telling me what I "got away with" during the pandemic? Not that it's any of your business, I was on maternity leave, so I "got away" with having my baby and looking after her. Now we are both back working and we manage quite well with our childcare arrangements and our jobs. And I know quite well what my company will allow people away with when it comes to working from home because I wrote the working from home policy. You think just because I'm not throwing my child into crèche at 8am and collecting her at 6pm and sitting in traffic for ninety minutes each end of that run, that I'm slacking? Maybe you need to change jobs if you think that's normal.

qwerty13

Antares35 wrote: »

While I agree the post could have been worded better, I personally know people who just have nothing going on at home and miss the incessant gossip and idle chit chat, something which reduced my own productivity at times when I had to listen to it.

Are we all meant to trudge back to the dreary, insane commute which for some people represents an extra working day per week, in case other people are suffering domestic abuse?

Ever stop to think that families, especially those with the responsibility of young children, are actually better off because they have some semblance of a life and work/ life balance now? Are we meant to go back to dumping our kids in crèche ten hours a day because other people need a distraction?

This. So much this.

I shouldn’t have said that I wished the people campaigning for a return to the office would shut up. I should have expressed myself better.

However! When you have 92.7% (I checked) in my workplace saying that they want to continue wfh as their primary location, and a small but v noisy % going on about the company paying for refitting their box room, refusing existing office chairs being shipped to them and demanding newer high spec ones, complaining about the ergonomics of their kitchen table ... and you can just feel the bristling at that from HR / management on group calls. We in my workplace just have a bad feeling that management are going to turn around and say right then, everyone back in the building when it’s remotely safe to do so, because the small % are causing so many issues / “concerns”.

And then 92.7% of our workplace have lost out, as we want to wfh, albeit with a sacrifice of a not ideal office type setup. In my particular job, no one absolutely must be in the premises to deliver services. And that’s why the very noisy 7.3% are jeopardising it for everyone else: they want perfection wfh, whereas the rest of us are delighted to have wfh which we’d asked for for years, and we don’t want to give it up. The 92.7% are willing to compromise, as the view seems to be that overall, our quality of life and work/life balance is better. My issue is with the 7.3% who either want perfection from a wfh environment, or else they want full time back to the office.

I fully acknowledge that some people find it dreadfully isolating wfh. But it has to be equally acknowledged that some people hated being in an office environment, and found it cliquey, exclusionary or bullying.

beauf

qwerty13 wrote: »

....But it has to be equally acknowledged that some people hated being in an office environment, and found it cliquey, exclusionary or bullying.

You seem to be suggesting they'd prefer to keep the 7%...