Free upskilling courses in Maths, Physics and Spanish

dory

The government have just announced this. If you're already a registered teacher, but not qualified in those subjects , you can apply for the new courses being funded by them.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2cd81-minister-foley-and-minister-harris-announce-new-upskilling-programmes-for-post-primary-teachers-in-mathematics-physics-and-spanish/

hurlingman97

Can u do it if u plan on doing a pme next year do u know?
Or do u already have to be qualified?

dory

You have to be registered. I don't know if you can still register as a teacher with just a degree. I would say not, but you'd have to ask someone in the Teaching Council.

SligoBrewer

Anything to avoid equal pay.

mirrorwall14

Have maths and music. Did applied maths in my first year of my degree. I’ve absolutely no reason to do this but I’m half tempted if they end up with empty spots (no way would I want to take a spot off someone without full time CID)

Polka_Dot

hurlingman97 wrote: »

Can u do it if u plan on doing a pme next year do u know?
Or do u already have to be qualified?

You need to be fully registered under Route 2,

Postgrad10

I wonder why just Spanish as a language ? Surely they should prioritise getting teachers to qualify in Irish. Even French can be tough to get.

RealJohn

Out of curiosity, if one was already qualified to teach maths, and did this physics course, how close are they likely to be to being qualified to teach applied maths?
Would they even be any closer at all?

RealJohn

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I wonder why just Spanish as a language ? Surely they should prioritise getting teachers to qualify in Irish. Even French can be tough to get.

Well, they were never going to prioritise Irish with FG in power. If FG ever get an overall majority, the first thing they’ll do in education is make leaving cert Irish optional.

On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if the boards policy makers are big FG supporters.

djemba djemba

Is the maths course, the same course that was run by UL a few years ago.

mtoutlemonde

RealJohn wrote: »

Well, they were never going to prioritise Irish with FG in power. If FG ever get an overall majority, the first thing they’ll do in education is make leaving cert Irish optional.

On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if the boards policy makers are big FG supporters.

What harm would it be though? Only students that want to do Irish would do it - more work in class etc. There could be a possibility to do an ab intio course to satisfy university requirements for those that really don't want to study Irish.

Don't get the anti FG spiel .... sounds like Colm O'Rourke about ASTI

RealJohn

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

What harm would it be though? Only students that want to do Irish would do it - more work in class etc. There could be a possibility to do an ab intio course to satisfy university requirements for those that really don't want to study Irish.

Don't get the anti FG spiel .... sounds like Colm O'Rourke about ASTI

The harm would be the fact that it’s mandatory is one of the main things keeping the language alive in the Gaeltachts, and it would probably kill the language off entirely. I’ll be the first to agree that things need to change in schools in Irish, but they need to change in primary schools, not secondary schools. The only real change needed in secondary Irish is that the course needs to reflect that most students are being taught by a competent Irish teacher for the first time in first year, and it probably needs to be taught more like the foreign languages (other than english).

And the FG thing is because they’re the one party that regularly pushes making Irish optional, even though it takes very little thought to work out why that would be a bad thing. They’re also the ones who sell everything they can as soon as they can, to the detriment of the country.

Treppen

djemba djemba wrote: »

Is the maths course, the same course that was run by UL a few years ago.

Presume it is. It takes a lot to get all the right modules accredited with QQI and Teaching Council , So I can't see them trying to re-invent the wheel.

Treppen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Have maths and music. Did applied maths in my first year of my degree. I’ve absolutely no reason to do this but I’m half tempted if they end up with empty spots (no way would I want to take a spot off someone without full time CID)

I did the course and found it upped my game a bit. The tutors we got were very good too. It was more for personal development than career progression. Might be more use if you're looking for jobs in other schools. Many schools don't really care once you're in and registered with the teaching council in one subject.

dory

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Have maths and music. Did applied maths in my first year of my degree. I’ve absolutely no reason to do this but I’m half tempted if they end up with empty spots (no way would I want to take a spot off someone without full time CID)

As part of the application you have to show that you're not already qualified in the subject you're applying for. In case people use it as a refresher course.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if one was already qualified to teach maths, and did this physics course, how close are they likely to be to being qualified to teach applied maths?
Would they even be any closer at all?

It depends what physics they offer as part of this course. I went back and did physics on a modular basis 5-6 years ago and was already qualified in maths and was able to register with the TC for physics and applied maths.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

The harm would be the fact that it’s mandatory is one of the main things keeping the language alive in the Gaeltachts, and it would probably kill the language off entirely. I’ll be the first to agree that things need to change in schools in Irish, but they need to change in primary schools, not secondary schools. The only real change needed in secondary Irish is that the course needs to reflect that most students are being taught by a competent Irish teacher for the first time in first year, and it probably needs to be taught more like the foreign languages (other than english).

And the FG thing is because they’re the one party that regularly pushes making Irish optional, even though it takes very little thought to work out why that would be a bad thing. They’re also the ones who sell everything they can as soon as they can, to the detriment of the country.

Many of the students who do pass or foundation Irish for LC will never speak a word of it ever again once they leave school. Lots of them don't speak a word of it in school unless they absolutely have to. And none of them are spending their time in the Gaeltacht.

It could be a positive move to have it compulsory as far as JC, and then optional for LC, with some sort of ab initio course like was suggested above that was completed in fifth year and a certificate awarded at the end for an oral exam.

I know the ones that are doing OL in my school are not going to further the language in any way once they've left education.

I did HL Irish for my LC back in the day and while I was able to rattle off essays on the environment and the problems of society etc, I would have struggled then to go into a supermarket and go through a shopping list in Irish beyond the basic, bread, butter, milk type items, because simple everyday vocabulary just isn't taught.

On the other hand, all those role plays about giving directions and buying return tickets in French and German have come in very handy over the years when on holidays.


I presume that Spanish is being offered because it's hard to recruit teachers for vacant jobs, let alone subbing.

mirrorwall14

dory wrote: »

As part of the application you have to show that you're not already qualified in the subject you're applying for. In case people use it as a refresher course.

I’m not qualified

dory

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m not qualified

You're good to go then! Which subject would you do?

mirrorwall14

dory wrote: »

You're good to go then! Which subject would you do?

Physics if I decide to in the end. I have maths and I’m not a languages person. To be honest though I’m not sure I will. Still have two young kids and it’s a long course

RealJohn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Many of the students who do pass or foundation Irish for LC will never speak a word of it ever again once they leave school. Lots of them don't speak a word of it in school unless they absolutely have to. And none of them are spending their time in the Gaeltacht.

It could be a positive move to have it compulsory as far as JC, and then optional for LC, with some sort of ab initio course like was suggested above that was completed in fifth year and a certificate awarded at the end for an oral exam.

I know the ones that are doing OL in my school are not going to further the language in any way once they've left education.

I did HL Irish for my LC back in the day and while I was able to rattle off essays on the environment and the problems of society etc, I would have struggled then to go into a supermarket and go through a shopping list in Irish beyond the basic, bread, butter, milk type items, because simple everyday vocabulary just isn't taught.

On the other hand, all those role plays about giving directions and buying return tickets in French and German have come in very handy over the years when on holidays.

All of these issues begin in primary schools though, and are then never really addressed in secondary. After eight years of learning Irish in primary school, you should have the everyday vocabulary. The fault is not with the secondary teachers, and the problem won’t be fixed by making changes at second level. It needs to be fixed at primary. Ignoring this is dooming any “reform” to failure before it begins.

If primary schools regularly produced whole classes of students who can’t add, nobody would be saying that we should make leaving cert maths optional.

SligoBrewer

RealJohn wrote: »

If primary schools regularly produced whole classes of students who can’t add, nobody would be saying that we should make leaving cert maths optional.

This is it.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Would this be available to teachers who already have full time jobs? I can't see how you could do a course and teach simultaneously.


You normally need a 4 year bachelor in addition to your pme to teach, would the maths be available to English teachers for example?
Would that not require taking 4 years out to do it?

Details are patchy.

dory

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Would this be available to teachers who already have full time jobs? I can't see how you could do a course and teach simultaneously.


You normally need a 4 year bachelor in addition to your pme to teach, would the maths be available to English teachers for example?
Would that not require taking 4 years out to do it?

Details are patchy.

It's aimed at teachers who are already qualified in other subjects. So yes, maths is available to English teachers. It's unclear if part-time / unemployed teachers will be given preference, I know of a few full time people who have applied.

A maths and English BA is a three year degree. If you were to only do one half of that, say the maths half, that's 1.5 years. So you can do enough coursework in 2 years to get enough credits to teach maths. You don't need a BA in maths, you need enough credits. I did it for History with DCU a few years ago. Technically they call it BA single module or something, but I don't say i've two degrees as the history one is only half the credits of a normal degree.

It's tough to study and work but doable. Lots did it for maths as well when the course was available in UL. And I've a colleague who did it online for English in DCU.

doc_17

I’m a Maths teacher and I teach Physics. I’m not qualified to teach Physics. I have done some course with the OU in Physics and I’m happy enough with that. I’d do it if I had the time but my advice would be that if you have a full time and can teach the subject no bother then don’t do it.

If you want to teach a new subject and need the qualification or have an interest then do it. But he warned, I know people who did the Maths one and it’s a hell of a lot of work and time with difficult material. So, expect nothing less from these courses on Physics and Spanish.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

doc_17 wrote: »

I’m a Maths teacher and I teach Physics. I’m not qualified to teach Physics. I have done some course with the OU in Physics and I’m happy enough with that. I’d do it if I had the time but my advice would be that if you have a full time and can teach the subject no bother then don’t do it.

If you want to teach a new subject and need the qualification or have an interest then do it. But he warned, I know people who did the Maths one and it’s a hell of a lot of work and time with difficult material. Some expect nothing less from these courses.

You've lost me.

How are you teaching physics if you're not qualified?

I thought you had to convince the teaching council that your course covered sufficient amount of material to get the qualification to teach that particular subject?

rainbowtrout

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

You've lost me.

How are you teaching physics if you're not qualified?

I thought you had to convince the teaching council that your course covered sufficient amount of material to get the qualification to teach that particular subject?

Registration with the Teaching Council is one thing. Your principal can (within reason) ask you to teach anything. The TC don't have access to your timetable or check what you are teaching. So it's not unusual for Science or Business teachers to be given maths classes, particularly if there's a shortage.

3d4life

rainbowtrout wrote: »

......I presume that Spanish is being offered because it's hard to recruit teachers for vacant jobs, let alone subbing.

Whilst true, the recognition of Spanish as an important language is long overdue in this country.

RealJohn

doc_17 wrote: »

I’m a Maths teacher and I teach Physics. I’m not qualified to teach Physics. I have done some course with the OU in Physics and I’m happy enough with that. I’d do it if I had the time but my advice would be that if you have a full time and can teach the subject no bother then don’t do it.

If you want to teach a new subject and need the qualification or have an interest then do it. But he warned, I know people who did the Maths one and it’s a hell of a lot of work and time with difficult material. Some expect nothing less from these courses.

I would advise the opposite of this. I teach maths. I used to teach it unqualified, but did an upskilling course (just before they brought in the free ones) and discovered that while my knowledge and ability in maths was adequate to teach leaving cert higher level, that’s all it was. I was doing my students a disservice teaching it before I was qualified, but I didn’t know that until I discovered how much I didn’t know, during the upskilling process.

Of course some teachers might still be great teachers, in spite of being unqualified, and some might get great results (but that doesn’t make them great teachers), but I suspect a great many (probably the majority, in my opinion) of the teachers who are teaching subjects unqualified are ultimately selling their students short. Your students deserve a fully qualified teacher.

(That’s not aimed at you specifically, doc.)

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

I would advise the opposite of this. I teach maths. I used to teach it unqualified, but did an upskilling course (just before they brought in the free ones) and discovered that while my knowledge and ability in maths was adequate to teach leaving cert higher level, that’s all it was. I was doing my students a disservice teaching it before I was qualified, but I didn’t know that until I discovered how much I didn’t know, during the upskilling process.

Of course some teachers might still be great teachers, in spite of being unqualified, and some might get great results (but that doesn’t make them great teachers), but I suspect a great many (probably the majority, in my opinion) of the teachers who are teaching subjects unqualified are ultimately selling their students short. Your students deserve a fully qualified teacher.

(That’s not aimed at you specifically, doc.)

I did the 2 year upskill maths course and I'd agree with both of ye.

Great to up your game and the tutors will bring you further if you want. They're a mix of university pure maths and maths education. Glad I did it and it was a slog in terms of time demands.

But science teachers mostly are offered the maths hours , qualified or not. Nothing really changed in terms of my timetable when I finished the course.

There's a few Computer Science courses I'd be interested in and I know my school might be keen for me to teach it. Honestly , I'm not so sure they care whether im qualified or not.

doc_17

RealJohn wrote: »

I would advise the opposite of this. I teach maths. I used to teach it unqualified, but did an upskilling course (just before they brought in the free ones) and discovered that while my knowledge and ability in maths was adequate to teach leaving cert higher level, that’s all it was. I was doing my students a disservice teaching it before I was qualified, but I didn’t know that until I discovered how much I didn’t know, during the upskilling process.

Of course some teachers might still be great teachers, in spite of being unqualified, and some might get great results (but that doesn’t make them great teachers), but I suspect a great many (probably the majority, in my opinion) of the teachers who are teaching subjects unqualified are ultimately selling their students short. Your students deserve a fully qualified teacher.

(That’s not aimed at you specifically, doc.)

I totally agree with you. But if I don’t teach Physics there won’t be Physics in my school. There aren’t any Physics teachers about, hence the reason for this course. So whilst I may not be on the register as a qualified physics teacher, at least they get to do it. Otherwise it’s more students doing Biology, and then more Biology teachers! That report several years ago that highlighted the feedback issue in science teaching was a good read. I was appointed as a Maths teacher and I’m doing the school and students a favour by taking this on since the previous physics teacher retired.

I did an OU course in 2010 and had I done the 2 week residential in the UK I’d be at a level where I would be deemed to have enough university Physics to teach to A Level. I’m happy I have enough to teach them well.

But my advice was that if you go into it you will face a fierce amount of work. If your school wants you to go into it then you should be looking for something from them in return.