What's it like airside at DUB at the moment?

Scotty #

air wrote: »

All lockdowns have achieved is creating dramatic peaks and troughs in our hospital occupancy.
They have had zero overall impact in terms of halting the spread of the disease.

Oh jeez, are you anti-vax too!?

Lockdown are not to 'halt' the spread. They are to slow it down so our hospitals do not become too overwhelmed.

When lockdowns are active the numbers go down and pressure on the health service eases. When lockdowns are lifted, pressure builds back up again. It's not rocket science. Look at the stats. Lockdowns work. In previous lifts they've gone too far. They won't be making that mistake again.

Not allowing clowns travel to Lanzarote to sit baking in the sun for a week prevents new variants coming in. It's that simple.

air

I've looked at the stats, we locked down too long and too hard before Christmas so our hospitals were empty.
We paid the price for this when some semblance of normality was restored in the lead up to Christmas, after which mortality was restored to normal levels.
We just squeezed the normal 3 month flu cycle into 1 month more or less.

So you're happy to restrict foreign travel forever more so then because more variants are always going to be possible.
That's fine and you're entitled to that position, I just don't see what you're doing in a travel forum then, you're clearly happy not to travel.

I'm not anti vax by any stretch, but I have my doubts around the likely efficacy of the Covid ones. They are after all the most rushed ones in history.

Beda Stadler stated back in April that they would be ineffective for those that need them and relatively pointless for those that don't.

At the moment it looks like we're moving into a variant panic mode, and the panic will go on each time a new variant is identified until confirmation can be gotten that they will be covered by the vaccine.

In any case, if you're under 85 you're at least 10x more likely to die driving a car than from Covid. I think we need to accept that and move on with our lives.

Caranica

So...airside in Dublin must be pretty grim at the moment? Think that's the thread I'm in??

Scotty #

air wrote: »

So you're happy to restrict foreign travel forever more so then because more variants are always going to be possible.

If it means hotels, pubs, sport, live entertainment can function as normal then yes, I'm happy to restrict international travel. I think most people would be.

air wrote: »

I just don't see what you're doing in a travel forum then...

It was on the home page and caught my eye. I didn't know it was the travel forum.

air wrote: »

I'm not anti vax by any stretch, but I have my doubts around the likely efficacy of the Covid ones...

I'd feel the same to be honest. I'd be first in line to take it but I've little faith that they're going to make a huge amount of difference. I hope we're wrong!!

air wrote: »

If you're under 85 you're at least 10x more likely to die driving a car than from Covid. I think we need to accept that and move on with our lives.

I'd say it 1000's times more likely, UNLESS, you're symptomatic and all the hospitals are full. Then what? It already happened in Italy. Portugal currently are shipping out their sick.

That's the crux of the issue. It's all about hospital capacity. Masks, travel, lockdowns, vaccines, social distancing.... it's all about keeping the health service functioning. Yes, zero covid may be a pipe dream but it may also be our only hope of returning to normal, albeit, without international holidays.

DessieJames

Scotty # wrote: »

Oh jeez, are you anti-vax too!?

Lockdown are not to 'halt' the spread. They are to slow it down so our hospitals do not become too overwhelmed.

When lockdowns are active the numbers go down and pressure on the health service eases. When lockdowns are lifted, pressure builds back up again. It's not rocket science. Look at the stats. Lockdowns work. In previous lifts they've gone too far. They won't be making that mistake again.

Not allowing clowns travel to Lanzarote to sit baking in the sun for a week prevents new variants coming in. It's that simple.

christ you sound just like Tony Holohan :eek:

Seen as your an advocate of lockdowns, i have some questions - what about the long term impact which will be felt for many years to come because of these yo yo lock downs, thoundands of people have already lost their jobs for good, and if you keep with lock downs thousands more will lose their jobs, the travel industry has , more than any other industry taken a severe hit and if this continues there wont be any travel industry left and you'll have thousands upon thousands of people on the dole, depressed out of their minds and struggling badly, and many may not recover from something like this,some people have never been on the dole in their entire life find themselves out of work, broke and struggling to pay rent and buy food.

The ecomony has already taken a huge hit but the longer this goes on it'll just get worse, peoples mental health and well being is often mentioned, however i feel it's a hell of a lot worse than what is spoke about in the media, people have become a shell of the person they previously were , some people are that racked with anxiety they are afraid to actually even leave the house the scaremomgeriong and fear on a daily basis from Holohan and NPHET is that intense.

So you might want to bear all this in mind before you go on about lockdowns, banning travel indefinitely and shutting down airports and give it a bit more thought, the PCR test is there for a reason, you take the test, if your negtive you fly, upon arrival into Ireland you isolate for 14 days or take another test after 5 days and if that's negative you can stop isolating, so where is the problem here,it's minimising the risk hugely.

Rapid antigen tests though which give results within an hour would be a much better long term solution for the forseeable future until a large percentage are vaccinated and travel is opoened up fully, indeed many scientists and medical professionals have recommended this, but NPHET are so stuck in their ways they wouldnt recommend this.

So you need to take a step back and think of the overall bigger picture instead of knee jerk reactory comments.

air

Scotty # wrote: »

UNLESS, you're symptomatic and all the hospitals are full. Then what? It already happened in Italy. Portugal currently are shipping out their sick.

The hospitals were never full in "Italy", they were full in Bergamo for a brief period, largely due to medical misadventure as I understand it.
They admitted a large number of mild cases and packed them in close to one another.

The neighbouring region of Piedmont had a similar number of cases at the same time with a fraction of the mortality at the same time, due to adopting a different strategy.

Mistakes were made and lessons learned, similar with early intervention ventilation.
None the less those images from the hospital in Bergamo were a key factor in driving lockdowns across Europe I believe.

Scotty # wrote: »

That's the crux of the issue. It's all about hospital capacity. Masks, travel, lockdowns, vaccines, social distancing.... it's all about keeping the health service functioning. Yes, zero covid may be a pipe dream but it may also be our only hope of returning to normal, albeit, without international holidays.

Herd immunity is the only credible approach at this point I believe.
I was under the impression we had paid hundreds of millions to set up a new hospital in CityWest and acquire space in private hospitals.
We should be keeping case numbers up to 3-4000 a day until this thing has run it's course. Manage restrictions to maintain hospitals near full capacity.
Relax restrictions for the young and tighten them for the old until herd immunity has been achieved.

The alternative is the status quo for an indefinite further period with regular fear mongering about the latest variant.

Scotty #

DessieJames wrote: »

Seen as your an advocate of lockdowns, i have some questions...

Do you honestly believe that someone who's gone against public health advise in the first place and gone on a foreign holiday is going to then isolate for another two weeks after returning?? I don't.

Yes, all those negatives you mention are terrible. Lots of businesses will never recover. But if the hospital numbers are swarming, as they do when restrictions are eased, what alternative is there other than to impose stronger restrictions? Wouldn't a short severe lockdown to attempt zero covid be better than what we have now?

Scotty #

air wrote: »

Herd immunity is the only credible approach at this point I believe.
We should be keeping case numbers up to 3-4000 a day until this thing has run it's course.

At 4000/day our hospitals would be overrun in a few weeks.
At 4000/day it would take 3 years for 75% coverage and it would only work if having had it once you were then immune. Unfortunately the data is showing this not to be the case.

DessieJames

Scotty # wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that someone who's gone against public health advise in the first place and gone on a foreign holiday is going to then isolate for another two weeks after returning?? I don't.

Yes, all those negatives you mention are terrible. Lots of businesses will never recover. But if the hospital numbers are swarming, as they do when restrictions are eased, what alternative is there other than to impose stronger restrictions? Wouldn't a short severe lockdown to attempt zero covid be better than what we have now?

sorry thats a shockingly bad response,i outlined clearly a number of issues relating to lock down and travel and you have failed to properly answer any of them, 2 months isnt a short severe lockdown either, again ill say to you - the long term impact from lock downs will be far far more severe and damaging than this virus will ever be, anyone who says otherwise is away with the fairies.


Good afternoon....

air

Scotty # wrote: »

At 4000/day our hospitals would be overrun in a few weeks.
At 4000/day it would take 3 years for 75% coverage and it would only work if having had it once you were then immune. Unfortunately the data is showing this not to be the case.

At 4000/day detected the true number of cases would be at least double that, pretty well assured that you'd have herd immunity within 18 months I think.

I don't believe that it's likely that the hospitals would be overrun, the spikes since the initial one have mainly been due to yoyo lockdowns, artificially restricting and then promoting the spread of illnesses.

The current approach is costing us 10Bn+ per annum and is going to cost multiples of the lives that Covid has taken in missed cancer diagnoses, heart attacks, suicides and everything else besides.
It's the very definition of unsustainable.

Riesen_Meal

What has any of this got to do with airside?

My friend works airside doing security and it's been made clean the place half the time due to the lack of passengers through the airport...

dory

Thread gone very off topic and I think the original question has been answered. Thread closed.