Ever get sick of Irish stereotyping?

440Hertz

I got it way worse in America than in the U.K.
To be fair, I think they’ve mostly moved on from paddywhackery in Britain over the last 30 years, but the Americans certainly haven’t and it can alternate between just ignorant “can you see the moon in Europe?” to just using stereotypes about Lucky Charms.

That being said, the Americans often have a tendency to produce comedy based on characters with “silly” foreign accents etc and can be extremely lacking in awareness of anything beyond their own bubble.

They’ve also a rather hilarious notion that we are ultra conservative in a puritanical way, which given our history in might not be baseless, but it is extremely dated and just a bit ironic coming from a culture that currently can’t do anything without thanking Jesus and where politics and religion are merged.

I had the bizarre experience of someone a in the USA tiptoeing around mentioning gay marriage and assuming I must be some ultra hardcore right wing Catholic and would be offended. Also had the experience of being asked to say grace at dinner, and when I said : “emmmh... I have ever done this before and actually, I’m an atheist” so I just raised a toast to the farmers, the food producers & the chef and everyone just went into this weird and awkward silence and someone later got a bit drunk and started giving me hassle over it, including implying I wasn’t Irish enough!!!

It’s also not just Irish people who get stuff like this. I’ve a lot of French family and they get absolute hell - stuff like being asked by English people “do you wash? which is ironic, as the assumption in France is the British are soap shy and use fish & chips as perfume. France tends to be the other extreme spending ludicrous amounts per capita on cosmetics and perfume.
Then Americans going on about how women don’t shave their armpits, I am aware of one case where this actually ended up in a guy being slapped! People doing terrible impressions of French accents and in one case being if you drink wine for breakfast!

The one thing I would say though is Ireland tends to actually care about what they think. The French would tend to just think : “oh how awful it must be for them to be so uncultured!” and approach it as an anthropological study.

I think sometimes we could do with developing a bit more of a brass neck ourselves & ignoring it.

At times I feel Ireland has a history of being the bullied kid at school who deflects by acting the clown & making it into a joke, when in reality they’re often really quite put out by what has been said and goes home to over analyse it and brood about it on boards.ie

irishblessing

440Hertz wrote: »

I got it way worse in America than in the U.K.
To be fair, I think they’ve mostly moved on from paddywhackery in Britain over the last 30 years, but the Americans certainly haven’t and it can alternate between just ignorant “can you see the moon in Europe?” to just using stereotypes about Lucky Charms.

That being said, the Americans often have a tendency to produce comedy based on characters with “silly” foreign accents etc and can be extremely lacking in awareness of anything beyond their own bubble.

They’ve also a rather hilarious notion that we are ultra conservative in a puritanical way, which given our history in might not be baseless, but it is extremely dated and just a bit ironic coming from a culture that currently can’t do anything without thanking Jesus and where politics and religion are merged.

I had the bizarre experience of someone a in the USA tiptoeing around mentioning gay marriage and assuming I must be some ultra hardcore right wing Catholic and would be offended. Also had the experience of being asked to say grace at dinner, and when I said : “emmmh... I have ever done this before and actually, I’m an atheist” so I just raised a toast to the farmers, the food producers & the chef and everyone just went into this weird and awkward silence and someone later got a bit drunk and started giving me hassle over it, including implying I wasn’t Irish enough!!!

It’s also not just Irish people who get stuff like this. I’ve a lot of French family and they get absolute hell - stuff like being asked by English people “do you wash? which is ironic, as the assumption in France is the British are soap shy and use fish & chips as perfume. France tends to be the other extreme spending ludicrous amounts per capita on cosmetics and perfume.
Then Americans going on about how women don’t shave their armpits, I am aware of one case where this actually ended up in a guy being slapped! People doing terrible impressions of French accents and in one case being if you drink wine for breakfast!

The one thing I would say though is Ireland tends to actually care about what they think. The French would tend to just think : “oh how awful it must be for them to be so uncultured!” and approach it as an anthropological study.

So you just made a post generalising and stereotyping 330 million people in America, all the British and French and Irish because you feel generalised and stereotyped? Well done.

440Hertz

irishblessing wrote: »

So you just made a post generalising and stereotyping 330 million people in America, all the British and French and Irish because you feel generalised and stereotyped? Well done.

One has to admire though how modern Ireland is becoming over sensitive, permanently offended and utterly humourless.

My point is the biggest issue we have here is a tendency to superficially laugh off stereotypes when they are aimed at us but then go off into self-critique in discussions like this.

We care far, far too much about how we are perceived a lot of that time and I don’t think it’s a particularly useful trait sometimes as I think it shatters a lot of self confidence and take self deprecation into more like a self destructive complex.

I know for example, I have encountered older Dubliners using the term “oh that’s a bit Irish” meaning obtuse or somewhat gruffly thick e.g. when some plumber didn’t show up or whatever.

Our national self image is pretty poor sometimes and you can see that in the “only in Ireland (is water this wet)” type narrative that regularly is a feature here.

If you compare how most more self confident cultures tend to react to such things it’s usually just with totally dismissal or not even significantly noticing unless they’re very extreme insults. I find we spend a lot of time analysing and reanalysing some comment that someone made. We could do with just brushing it off a lot more than we do.

I find Ireland affable but when you see or hear stuff like a radio & other media attention about an American who blogged about her pet peeve about living in Ireland, as happened a few years ago, it does tend to point to extreme over sensitivity.

There’s a fine line between healthy self deprecation and an unhealthy, serious lack of self confidence & I think it’s one we sometimes trip over a little too easily - it likely stems from our history and particularly the interaction with the British establishment but, also I think from a home grown education system that for a very long time seemed to try to knock any sparks of pride or confidence out of most of those who experienced it. That’s really only changed since the 1980s.

dxhound2005

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

And the English usually can't pronounce 'wh' correctly either. 'Whales' is pronounced the same as 'Wales', for example. In certain areas, 'th' is pronounced like 'f', as something already said with the' think/fink' thing.

The one that I'm hearing more and more is their inability to say the word 'sixth'. They say 'sickth' instead.

You're condemning "the English" unfairly. The Wales pronunciation is standard these days. Wh still exists in Scotland. These things can change over the centuries.

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/11/whale.html

And sixth is just one of thousands of words with more than one standard pronunciation. There is an old riddle which works in speech, but not in writing. If I had 26 sheep and one died, how many would I have left? The answer will usually be 25, but you can say 19 claiming that you said 20 sick sheep.

AllForIt

No. I never get sick except when i drink over 10 pints of Guinness.

AllForIt

irishblessing wrote: »

So you just made a post generalising and stereotyping 330 million people in America, all the British and French and Irish because you feel generalised and stereotyped? Well done.

I agree with 440Herts. It's a painfully lefty trend to complain about generalising or stereotyping. I think that is just a way to stop people saying things that have truth to them but ppl like you think you have found a way to nullify a point altogether if some claim isn't 100% true if every case. Well it's not gonna work.

fonecrusher1

Erraah I wouldn't be fond of the Irish stereotyping, but when I do go at it I go at it awful hard. I'd have about 45 pints in about 2 hours, and I'd have an aul packet a crips then or an aul packet eh peanuts, and I'd have 3 more anyway. And I'd get up in the morning then, and Maureen'd have the fry on.

And I'd go at it again. And I tell ya one thing, there'd be no fückin shtopping me. I'd drink the shirt off any man's back.

Bastards.

Pauliedragon

To be sure to be sure was one comment that used to wreck my head when I was in OZ. I literally never heard that saying before I left Ireland. To be fair though most of the time it's just friendly stuff they genuinely don't realise how annoying it is for us Irish.

440Hertz

On the pronunciation issue, these islands have *extremely* strong localised accents in contrast to relatively homogenised American or Australian accents that have much less regionalisation (with some exceptions in older US cities especially)

It can become a bit tiresome when you’ve someone who in their mind has no accent (but often has eg a central Dublin accent or a Cockney accent) is laughing at someone who has a slightly different accent from another nation or region.

Eg Th issue is common - often ends up as de, dh and even F in London.

The reason you can’t hear a difference between Whales and Wales in parts of England is they’ve an unvoiced H which varies from places to place and speaker to speaker.

In general though I think we, especially in Ireland and Britain, wear accents as a badge of national and regional identity. There’s also a lot of class system nonsense linked to them, more so in England - history of public schools, RP etc etc.

We’re not above mocking accents from inner city Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Belfast, Cavan etc etc either.

Hyperbollix

As stereotypes go, we could have done worse. The association with drunken eejitry can be tiresome but it's nice that the world thinks of Irish people in terms of happiness, friendliness and hospitality.

jam_mac_jam

I think you have to laugh it off. it generally isn't really meant in badness. The potato thing coming from Brits is funny, oh yeah famines, how hilarious..

its weird that its totally acceptable to laugh at an Irish person's accent while I don't think you would be slagging off somebody from India to their face about their accent. I notice this in particular in the UK and UK television.

I think you generally have to take it that the person is a bit stupid or uncultured and not get offended by it. I think you just smile and nod.

440Hertz

AllForIt wrote: »

I agree with 440Herts. It's a painfully lefty trend to complain about generalising or stereotyping. I think that is just a way to stop people saying things that have truth to them but ppl like you think you have found a way to nullify a point altogether if some claim isn't 100% true if every case. Well it's not gonna work.

[sarcasm]

There you go stereotyping the extremely woke!

[/sarcasm]

440Hertz

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I think you have to laugh it off. it generally isn't really meant in badness. The potato thing coming from Brits is funny, oh yeah famines, how hilarious..

its weird that its totally acceptable to laugh at an Irish person's accent while I don't think you would be slagging off somebody from India to their face about their accent. I notice this in particular in the UK and UK television.

I think you generally have to take it that the person is a bit stupid or uncultured and not get offended by it. I think you just smile and nod.

It’s done quite regularly on American television. It’s just that the U.K. has become lot more sensitive to humour that’s based around xenophobic stereotyping, particularly when it’s targeted towards groups who are already subject to a lot of racism in general. There are varying degrees of sensitivity because it can be part of an overall wall of nasty in some cases, and in others you’re looking at quite established and robust groups.

Take a look at the Big Bang Theory and their Raj character, a really poorly written Indian stereotype.

Apoo on the Simpsons has only very recently become a sensitive issue. Groundskeeper Willie is also a rather ludicrous stereotyping. As is Mexican Bee Guy and that went to town on us on Whacking Day, Bart’s trip to France etc etc etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Originally Posted by AllForIt View Post
I agree with 440Herts. It's a painfully lefty trend to complain about generalising or stereotyping. I think that is just a way to stop people saying things that have truth to them but ppl like you think you have found a way to nullify a point altogether if some claim isn't 100% true if every case. Well it's not gonna work.

I agree.

NSAman

First time in America, meeting a plumber who came to the house.

I was introduced as an Irish person. Plumber then went into the usual lucky charms etc. The proceeded to say “ I’ve never met a real live Irish person”

Of course I replied “ so you’ve met plenty of dead ones?”

Totally over his head.

sbsquarepants

Pauliedragon wrote: »

To be sure to be sure was one comment that used to wreck my head when I was in OZ.

I have to admit to saying that one quite regularly myself. Sometimes you do need to be sure, to be sure.;)

Incel In The Membrane

Not really, makes it easy to lay American chicks. Just Paddy it up, get 'em drunk and give them a taste of your auld shilleleagh.

blackbox

Never bothered me...

Chockablock Theodore

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Fair enough but to say that we're all alcoholics I feel isn't a fair representation of us. It's like me saying that all Spanish people are bull Killers and are gypsy flamenco dancers.

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

ILoveYourVibes

Incel In The Membrane wrote: »

Not really, makes it easy to lay American chicks. Just Paddy it up, get 'em drunk and give them a taste of your auld shilleleagh.

At least you get something out of it.

I suppose we do have ourselves to blame somewhat for the stereotypes.

I mean ...all the hamming.

Richard harris etc ...they do play up to it ...

A generation of abbey actors were always ranting about the famine to be sure to be sure.

landofthetree

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1_glHa8F7fA&t=62s


So called liberals like Kate McKinnon think we all marry our cousins.

:rolleyes:

Immortal Starlight

I love this film. This scene always makes me smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuJ3bN20dBE

Hamsterchops

Tis a fierce gale blowin out'dare taday, so it is . . .

simongurnick

Worked in a call centre before for a brokerage firm, basically placing stock orders for Americans.
Guy called in one day, heard my accent and proceeded to place his order in the worst Irish accent since Tom Cruise in Far and Away. Funniest part was he was buying about 300 grands worth of Apple! Not exactly a small order.
Another time on Paddy's Day a woman asked if my accent was real or was everyone putting them on for the day that's in it!

So funny.

ILoveYourVibes

Originally Posted by irishguitarlad View Post
Fair enough but to say that we're all alcoholics I feel isn't a fair representation of us. It's like me saying that all Spanish people are bull Killers and are gypsy flamenco dancers.

Spain is divided into autonomous regions. Some regions attempted to ban it (notably catalan)But the cental govt ...insists its in the spanish constitution to allow people to bullfight.



The flamenco etc that is all in the south. And its REAL. La Feria de Seville etc. Its huge.

BTW bullfighting is huge all over latin america too ..they have it in mexico ...argentina etc.

But it is a part of spanish culture


Within spain ...they have their own stereotypes about each other..the regions are quite different ..but yes there is some truth to them.



catalonians are friends for life!

Fritzbox

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yeah i think we can all agree ..no he didn't denis ..feck is not gaelic ..and erm gaelic is not irish.

Americans always say ....oh my parents spoke irish ...they did in their hole ...2% of the population speaks it ..

Can you remember your parents ever speaking irish? cuz i can't

Why wouldn't his father not have spoken (and sworn) in Irish? There is every chance he would have.

Denis Colin Leary was born on August 18, 1957, in Worcester, Massachusetts, the son of Catholic immigrant parents from County Kerry, Ireland.[2] His mother, Nora (née Sullivan) (b. 1929), was a maid, and his father, John Leary (1924–1985), was an auto mechanic. Born in America to Irish parents, Leary is a citizen of both the United States and Ireland. Leary is a third cousin of talk show host Conan O'Brien.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Leary#Early_life

fonecrusher1

landofthetree wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1_glHa8F7fA&t=62s


So called liberals like Kate McKinnon think we all marry our cousins.

:rolleyes:

In fairness its SNL which is generally awful unfunny sh!te. Pretty sure they get those audiences well pissed before the show starts. I wouldn't get too upset about it.

ILoveYourVibes

Fritzbox wrote: »

Why wouldn't his farther not have spoken (and sworn) in Irish? There is every chance he would have.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Leary#Early_life

:rolleyes:

And he calls it gaelic?

440Hertz

NSAman wrote: »

First time in America, meeting a plumber who came to the house.

I was introduced as an Irish person. Plumber then went into the usual lucky charms etc. The proceeded to say “ I’ve never met a real live Irish person”

Of course I replied “ so you’ve met plenty of dead ones?”

Totally over his head.

I was in the US a few years ago and hanging around with a good few EU people. We were at a big table in a food court and two of the Dutch people were speaking Dutch to each other. This American “lady” at the next table turned around and said “are you speaking Klingon?” “Your language sounds like vomiting” - we just looked at her in total shock but herself and her friend seemed to be just thinking their comment to a random stranger was entirely acceptable.

Stuff like that happened way too frequently. It’s not just the Lucky Charms thing. There’s a significant lack of awareness and rather unpleasant mocking goes on.

ILoveYourVibes

440Hertz wrote: »

I was in the US a few years ago and hanging around with a good few EU people. We were at a big table in a food court and two of the Dutch people were speaking Dutch to each other. This American “lady” at the next table turned around and said “are you speaking Klingon?” “Your language sounds like vomiting” - we just looked at her in total shock but herself and her friend seemed to be just thinking their comment to a random stranger was entirely acceptable.

That's kind of funny though. Dutch DOES sound like that.

There is a certain type of american i love ...the BLUNT ones.