Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

political analyst

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1013/1171375-mother-baby-homes/

Minister for Children Roderic O'Gorman has responded to complaints about plans to seal the archive of the Mother and Baby Homes Commission (MBHC) for 30 years.

The Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Records Bill 2020 is set to be discussed in the Seanad this week with the MBHC due to publish the findings of its five-year investigation on 30 October.

The Justice for Magdalenes group and the Adoption Rights Alliance said in a statement the sealing of the archive "means no-one will be able to access their personal records [or information] about their disappeared relatives or babies who are buried in unmarked graves".

Minister O'Gorman continued: "The 2004 Act also requires that such records are sealed for a period of 30 years pending their transfer to the National Archives.

"This provision was already in place ahead of the establishment of the Commission.

Which side is right - the government or the campaign groups who oppose the 30-year rule?

Why was the 30-year-rule included in the Act of 2004? Couldn't the relevant information be released without infringing on witnesses' right to privacy?

Mules

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Zebra3

I'd suspect it's to protect FFFG and the RC cult.

Don't let any more stories of all this out and about.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I think it's a massive failure that its an issue now. If people had an issue about it 2004 was the time to campaign about it. In my opinion its too late now.

Eric Cartman

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers. A gigantic stain on our nations past but one that theres no political will to ever truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

ILoveYourVibes

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres political will to truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

:cool: Believe.

Gimme your vibes im making gumbo!

Senator Mary Higgins and Senator Lynne Ruane have put forward 20 amendments in a very tight space of time to stop the sealing in the bill.Ivana Bacik is trying her best too

All they can do is their best ...even if they are senators.


There is a light....

Acosta

The Greens putting an end to any doubt that I'll ever vote for them again.

ILoveYourVibes

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think it's a massive failure that its an issue now. If people had an issue about it 2004 was the time to campaign about it. In my opinion its too late now.

They did.

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

The amendments won't affect that at all.

John Hutton

The Catholic Church is not in favour of keeping these files secret either, only the government is.

ILoveYourVibes

If you want good to happen you have to believe in the good in people and raise the vibes.

s1ippy

Typical and horrible. I also don't see how the 30 year rule even applies because the whole business happened well over 30 years ago.

This is clearly an exercise in waiting until those involved are dead, so that no high profile scandals come out of it; pathetic to see that the church and state are still in cahoots to ensure that victims of the mass physical and sexual abuse, systematic oppression and outright people trafficking the Catholics are famous for remain suppressed and silenced to their graves. All to guard money and ill-gained reputations.

Imagine if it was revealed Muslims in Ireland are doing the things that happened in Tuam right now. There would be armageddon.

ILoveYourVibes

I just looked online

Looks like the bill passed in its original form.

political analyst

Mules wrote: »

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Why do Justice for Magdalenes and the Adoption Rights Alliance not believe the government?

Mrs OBumble

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers.

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

Eric Cartman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

I think we do have to remember that at the time, going against the priest could make you a pariah in the community, it was wrong what happened but I dont think theres any point in condemning family members for not having the stones to oppose the church at the time.

steddyeddy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Or their gutless fathers or the other useless family members who were responsible for their mothers being incarcerated.

I agree completely.

whisky_galore

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we do have to remember that at the time, going against the priest could make you a pariah in the community, it was wrong what happened but I dont think theres any point in condemning family members for not having the stones to oppose the church at the time.

A brainwashed people, under the thumbs of old biddys, priests and bishops.

Gatling

Every single document Should be digitally scanned and made available on a secure website that would require a passcode to access related to each persons file and records ,
Not hidden away from view for another 3 decades ,
The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Mrs OBumble

Gatling wrote: »

The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Which particular god gave them this right?




I've heard enough stories of individual families refusing to let women be put into homes to not buy the "priest made me do it" line.

I suspect in many cases, it was simply about covering up incest. This would contribute to the death rate too.

salamiii

it's a cover up who are they protecting

all files should be open and searchable by all


the state is muzeling the victims still


https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/07/europe/ireland-mother-and-baby-homes-intl/index.html

salamiii

sound proof the stairs underneath the stairs


http://www.soundservice.co.uk/soundproofing_of_stairs.html

Eric Cartman

whisky_galore wrote: »

A brainwashed people, under the thumbs of old biddys, priests and bishops.

it truly was a sad time in Irish history we'd do well to keep the memory alive of but never attempt to replicate again.

Gervais08

Gatling wrote: »

Every single document Should be digitally scanned and made available on a secure website that would require a passcode to access related to each persons file and records ,
Not hidden away from view for another 3 decades ,
The victims have a god given right to all the information they require ,

Yeah cos everything digitally secured is hack proof.

Graces7

The full report will be out on October 30th; in time for Hallowe'en

Oh and there is fresh debate re the sealing.

jmayo

Mules wrote: »

I'd imagine it's to protect the mothers privacy. It was the same with private adoptions. The women went on to marry and have kids and often never told their family about having another child. Imo if the law at the time guaranteed privacy, it's not fair on the mothers to change it retroactively.

Bullshyte.
They never gave two fooks about the mothers and I don't suddenly see them caring now.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I suspect its to wait until all the former residents are all dead, stopping keen solicitors from building compensation cases and stopping those children ever finding their mothers. A gigantic stain on our nations past but one that theres no political will to ever truly do right by the victims (mothers and children)

I agree, it looks like covering up any state involvement in certain cases.
The state turned a blind eye, it has already been shown about the industrial schools. where negative reports by the few decent people in the system were squashed to not rock the boat.
FFS they even used the Gradai to round up kids.

There is also probably still a few die hards religious types hanging around who will continue to do their best to protect the church.

After all two FF ministers protected the churches exposure to compensation payments and made the tax payers cover the costs.

Zebra3

jmayo wrote: »

After all two FF ministers protected the churches exposure to compensation payments and made the tax payers cover the costs.

And nobody who protected paedophiles in the RC church has ever been prosecuted. These scumbags moved these even worse scumbags around so they could rape different kids.

Many of these lowlifes are still alive.

We always hear FFFG tell us that they are tough on crime yet like DOB these people seem to be unaccountable to the law.

Acosta

Is there even a FF or FG TD in the house to listen to this? Never mind support any of the amendments being proposed.

Shameless ****ers the lot of them. Them and their predecessors that let off this happen and did nothing.

Nice to hear Terry Prone get a mention. Whose still wheeled out on every current affairs show on tv and radio like nothing ever happened.

440Hertz

This is the second time the Greens have supported extremely socially regressive stuff. Last time that made me feel absolutely let down was when they supported the blasphemy legislation. I contacted them at the time and got wishy-washy, deflecting nonsense.

They seem to basically be a Conservative party, albeit one with green credentials.

Acosta

Catherine Connolly is a brilliant TD

thomas 123

Acosta wrote: »

Catherine Connolly is a brilliant TD

It helps being a barrister and not a school teacher I’d say. A fantastic and learned speaker. Her point about the missing documents that T’D’s are not getting is scandalous - the media appear to be super quite on this also.

Richard B-B’s point about the whips being brought out for this is equally as important, absolute disgrace and a cover job as the rest have said.

listermint

Had not seen another thread on this , but from reading the voting pattern today it appears as if the 3 parties in government may have scored a massive own goal in this one.

This doesn't sit well with the public at all.

https://www.thejournal.ie/roderic-ogorman-amendments-5241697-Oct2020/
THE DÁIL HAS passed the Government’s Mother and Baby Homes Bill.

The Bill was passed with 78 voting for it and 67 voting against.

PsychoPete

It's not like Ireland has a history of covering things up or anything

nthclare

440Hertz wrote: »

This is the second time the Greens have supported extremely socially regressive stuff. Last time that made me feel absolutely let down was when they supported the blasphemy legislation. I contacted them at the time and got wishy-washy, deflecting nonsense.

They seem to basically be a Conservative party, albeit one with green credentials.

What was the blasphemy legislation ?

thomas 123

Government voted it in tonight - they truly don’t represent us.

Is this the only thread on boards on this - way too quite...

thomas 123

Vote breakdown.

whisky_galore

thomas 123 wrote: »

Vote breakdown.

Any breakdown on who voted for what?

thomas 123

whisky_galore wrote: »

Any breakdown on who voted for what?

Not yet - all ff all fg and all gp per the screenshot. It was a whipped vote.

whisky_galore

thomas 123 wrote: »

Not yet - all ff all fg and all gp per the screenshot. It was a whipped vote.

Cûnts.
The lot of them.

listermint

PsychoPete wrote: »

It's not like Ireland has a history of covering things up or anything

Cover ups?

Nah. Wrong island... ..

.... ......

..

Acosta

thomas 123 wrote: »

Government voted it in tonight - they truly don’t represent us.

Is this the only thread on boards on this - way too quite...

The general indifference I come across about this subject whenever it's in the news from many I know(especially the ones that vote for the establishment) tells me that unfortunately they pretty much do. Or at least largely do. I don't know what it is with this subject that makes so many care so little, I really don't. And all these people have kids indoctrinated into the church. How can people do that. To attach your kids to an institution that is responsible for so much horrendous acts to children and have basically got away with it makes no sense to me.

Official Ireland's general response to the mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries and industrial schools has been to say has little as possible and hope that it will go away. Fine Fail and Fine Gael most certainly don't want to talk about it and the media help them out as much as possible by making as little about it as humanly possible. Their first inclination when Tuam was uncovered a few years back was to immediately downplay and in some cases suggest it was not true.
Once they couldn't deny it any longer, it was a huge story for about a month and then.....nothing. It was gone out of the media as quickly as it arrived with no resolution to the matter whatsoever.
The reaction to sealing of the documents or lack of one is just par of course.

steddyeddy

I think it will take external pressure from the EU or outside media to bring attention to this.

landofthetree

listermint wrote: »

Cover ups?

Nah. Wrong island... ..

.... ......

..

So these women who had these kids dont have a right to privacy?

440Hertz

nthclare wrote: »

What was the blasphemy legislation ?

They supported the introduction of legislation that defined blasphemy back in 2009 while in government, activating the blasphemy provision in the Irish constitution, which to that point, had been a dead letter law because, while it was in the constitution, there was no legislation defining it and the courts had been unable to define it as it would have required an established state religion.

The legislation provided a definition based on offending a large number of people.

It remained in force until the constitution was amended to remove it in 2018.

[url] http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/02/ireland.blasphemy.law/index.html[/url]

Led to ludicrous stuff like this : https://www.thejournal.ie/file-may-be-sent-to-the-dpp-over-blasphemous-ucc-exhibition-163550-Jun2011/

dundalkfc10

Scumbags and every person who ever votes for any of them again should be ashamed of themselves

Trying to hide the Church's past again

Acosta

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think it will take external pressure from the EU or outside media to bring attention to this.

To be honest at this point I think it will take a future generation of Irish people to deal with this. And that generation will look at the one that came before us and say how the hell did you people let this happen? And they will look at our generation, an Ireland that STILL has religious iconography plastered over every spec of the town in the country and say, why the hell didn't you give these people justice and pease? Why didn't you fcuking talk about it!?

landofthetree

All Catholics must share the blame but they want to blame everyone else.

They put the women in these places not the government.

Nexytus

listermint wrote: »

Cover ups?

Nah. Wrong island... ..

.... ......

..

Not our little island?



Church rapes and beatings, planning bribes, tapping journalists phones, Stardust, Niall Molloy murder, McBrearty stitch up for murder, beef export insurance skullduggery, Hepatitis C blood contamination debacle, finance ministers with no bank accounts, Anglo Bank "irregularities", €10 million templemore missing money, morris mccabe ........

landofthetree

Acosta wrote: »

The general indifference I come across about this subject whenever it's in the news from many I know(especially the ones that vote for the establishment) tells me that unfortunately they pretty much do. Or at least largely do. I don't know what it is with this subject that makes so many care so little, I really don't. And all these people have kids indoctrinated into the church. How can people do that. To attach your kids to an institution that is responsible for so much horrendous acts to children and have basically got away with it makes no sense to me.

Official Ireland's general response to the mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries and industrial schools has been to say has little as possible and hope that it will go away. Fine Fail and Fine Gael most certainly don't want to talk about it and the media help them out as much as possible by making as little about it as humanly possible. Their first inclination when Tuam was uncovered a few years back was to immediately downplay and in some cases suggest it was not true.
Once they couldn't deny it any longer, it was a huge story for about a month and then.....nothing. It was gone out of the media as quickly as it arrived with no resolution to the matter whatsoever.
The reaction to sealing of the documents or lack of one is just par of course.

Maybe the public are fed up of the exaggerated claims by the media?

Thousands were raped in Irish reform schools’, said the UK Independent in 2009 when the Irish government published its extensive report on the abuse of boys in Catholic-run schools. Clearly the Indie hadn’t read the report, for if it had it would surely have noticed that in fact there were 68 claims of rape, not all of them proven, between the period of 1914 and 1999.

Step fathers have abused thousands of children but nobody mentions that. :rolleyes:

cnocbui

landofthetree wrote: »

So these women who had these kids dont have a right to privacy?

Not if it infringes or interferes with another womans right to justice.

s1ippy

https://twitter.com/SocDems/status/1319296907416514565?s=20

This is hard to watch.

Richard Boyd Barrett was born in a mother and baby home.

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1319360295085744129?s=20

I am not in favour of protesting right now but I really don't see what alternative we have. The government voted 78 to 67 in favour of sealing these records. They are going to allow abusers and murderers to die without facing justice. With this action they have enabled institutional rape, murder, paedophilia. This cannot be allowed and we need to organise to take action on behalf of the voiceless dead, maimed, mentally unwell and the fearful victims.

smurgen

Did anyone ever see the posts here deflecting blame on society saying things like "everyone knew" and "society is to blame" when the finger is pointed at church and government? This sealing of the documents puts that stupid argument to bed.