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An Taisce sharpens the axe for battle against Electric SUVs

  • 17-10-2020 1:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious


    SUV's. Remember those yokes from the tiger that everyone had? Well, our government-funded group of anti-everything serial-objecting looneybin greenies have already started making an enemy out of these vehicles, even if they're fully electric.


    It just goes to show that you can't win with those kind of groups. Before it was carbon emissions now it's microplastics from tyres and that they allegedly need a bigger battery than the weak, slow and useless electric vehicle they were hoping people would buy.



    Have a look at this US-centric opinion piece from them. Who writes this bee ess? Clearly not someone from here (tailpipe? sedan?) Even if we all went back to the horse and cart they'd be trying to ban those because the horses fart too much

    https://www.antaisce.org/an-taisce-seeks-climate-and-public-health-action-on-vehicle-emissions

    Stellantis: All the sh1t brands under one roof



«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Yes it's a load of nonsense, there are certain folk who want to keep us down. For decades the Irish have been forced in to underpowered box cars and forced to live in box houses that have hardly room for furniture, a bed end to end is almost hitting 2 walls but this is acceptable......

    I wouldn't call most SUV's sold in Ireland as SUV, they haven't much more room than a hatch, they're just taller, the Hyundai Kona for instance is a pretty small car but still too large for these loonies who wrote the above article.

    Wait until they get started on emissions from tyres.

    I do believe that Anthropogenic warming is a joke that just keeps gaining more and more traction, natural climate changes that have been going on for millions of years, we didn't melt the ice during the last Ice Age ? no we didn't, that was some Climate change. Anyway I know I am deefinitely without doubt one of very few People on Boards.ie who disagree with these so called "experts".

    Anyway, one thing I do agree with is microplastics and plastics in general. They are more serious than any Co2 in the Atmosphere and we need real action fast but no, Co2 Co2 Co2. The whole Island of Ireland is a disgusting dump full of rubbish in ditches and the sides of the motorway's the length and breath of the Island and no one is cleaning it up.

    Climate Change is the greatest con created by the powers that be to distract us from more serious issues and that is the breaking down of Nuclear treaties, more Countries getting Nuclear Weapons, defying treaties and next you know we'll be back to testing of Nukes above ground and who's going to stop someone with nukes ? Russia and the U.S are now building more and more new weapons and building more stockpiles of Nukes, The world is in Chaos and nothing like Climate Change, Covid and Donald Trump to take over the daily news to distract us from the actual greatest threat to mankind and the planert we need to wake up, fast!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,942 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    Comparing an American SUV, you need a C1 licence here to drive one, and the vehicles sold here as SUVs is like comparing apples and oranges. The are completely different in all aspects.

    The ironic thing is that the rise of the American SUV was the result of increased fuel efficiency laws and similar to the diesel fiasco in Europe lead to worse emissions. I wonder what will be the unintended outcome of the push to electric?


  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭ 3d4life


    Del2005 wrote: »
    .... similar to the diesel fiasco in Europe lead to worse emissions.....


    and then they compounded the air quality issue by promoting wood burning stoves...10 years later they wake up and see the resulting pm2.5 levels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    There's no real viable alternative to fossil fuels for heating yet because electricity is too expensive, in towns and cities Gas is probably going to be the only solution for many decades yet.

    The focus on cars is insane, there's so many towns in Ireland choking under clouds of smoky coal, briquette and turf smoke even in towns with smoky coal bans. There was absolutely no mention of banning solid fuel burning.

    Wood burning in the Country I wouldn't really have a problem with, I don't burn solid fuels myself, probably will install a pellet stove in the Sitting room soon, I live in the sticks and emissions would be low enough.

    The budget missed the opportunity to introduce a feed-in-tariff so we still can't export to the grid and get paid so we can buy back energy in winter for heating. Still only allowed 5.5 Kw to the grid at least last time I checked.

    Heat pumps remain very expensive, they're getting more efficient and can even replace oil boilers but to upgrade from Oil to Heat pump would take many years to pay off and at that the heat pump might only have a few years left before it needs serious investment in money.

    Forcing People into small cars is not going to happen, a lot of People here have no idea what an SUV is, a Hyundai Kona and Nissan Qashqai for instance are small cars, not SUV. They're crossovers, there's a big difference.

    Next we'll have People calling for electric cars to be no more than 80 HP, they'll say a 200 Hp Kona is far too powerful for Ireland and needs more energy because it's more powerful motor and we shouldn't need such outrageous power for Ireland. :D

    Anyway, a lot of that rubbish about SUV looks like it came from some folk over in the cycling forum here on Boards. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,591 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    The budget missed the opportunity to introduce a feed-in-tariff so we still can't export to the grid and get paid so we can buy back energy in winter for heating. Still only allowed 5.5 Kw to the grid at least last time I checked.
    :D

    Would you prefer they removed the grant to provide a REFiT ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    ted1 wrote: »
    Would you prefer they removed the grant to provide a REFiT ?

    Absolutely because when grants are given installation goes up anyway and managing energy without grid is insanely difficult no matter what you have installed to dump energy which is wasteful if it's energy used that you wouldn't otherwise need at least dumped to the grid you can buy back when you need it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭ Mr Q


    ted1 wrote: »
    Would you prefer they removed the grant to provide a REFiT ?

    I would. But I don't qualify for the grant so that is part of the reason. The other is the installers are getting the benefit of the grant in most cases and not the home owner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭ zom


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Yes it's a load of nonsense, there are certain folk who want to keep us down.

    They will be probably most happy to see us all dead and I only wish average Paddy to have glimpse of common sense before next general election giving a vote to people who actually care of him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    we didn't melt the ice during the last Ice Age ? no we didn't, that was some Climate change.
    Place brain in gear, then type. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭ salamiii


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    There's no real viable alternative to fossil fuels for heating yet because electricity is too expensive, in towns and cities Gas is probably going to be the only solution for many decades yet.

    The focus on cars is insane, there's so many towns in Ireland choking under clouds of smoky coal, briquette and turf smoke even in towns with smoky coal bans. There was absolutely no mention of banning solid fuel burning.

    Wood burning in the Country I wouldn't really have a problem with, I don't burn solid fuels myself, probably will install a pellet stove in the Sitting room soon, I live in the sticks and emissions would be low enough.

    The budget missed the opportunity to introduce a feed-in-tariff so we still can't export to the grid and get paid so we can buy back energy in winter for heating. Still only allowed 5.5 Kw to the grid at least last time I checked.

    Heat pumps remain very expensive, they're getting more efficient and can even replace oil boilers but to upgrade from Oil to Heat pump would take many years to pay off and at that the heat pump might only have a few years left before it needs serious investment in money.

    Forcing People into small cars is not going to happen, a lot of People here have no idea what an SUV is, a Hyundai Kona and Nissan Qashqai for instance are small cars, not SUV. They're crossovers, there's a big difference.

    Next we'll have People calling for electric cars to be no more than 80 HP, they'll say a 200 Hp Kona is far too powerful for Ireland and needs more energy because it's more powerful motor and we shouldn't need such outrageous power for Ireland. :D

    Anyway, a lot of that rubbish about SUV looks like it came from some folk over in the cycling forum here on Boards. :D
    put solar on your roof


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,652 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    SUV's. Remember those yokes from the tiger that everyone had? Well, our government-funded group of anti-everything serial-objecting looneybin greenies have already started making an enemy out of these vehicles, even if they're fully electric.


    It just goes to show that you can't win with those kind of groups. Before it was carbon emissions now it's microplastics from tyres and that they allegedly need a bigger battery than the weak, slow and useless electric vehicle they were hoping people would buy.



    Have a look at this US-centric opinion piece from them. Who writes this bee ess? Clearly not someone from here (tailpipe? sedan?) Even if we all went back to the horse and cart they'd be trying to ban those because the horses fart too much

    https://www.antaisce.org/an-taisce-seeks-climate-and-public-health-action-on-vehicle-emissions

    I'm no greeny. But SUVs are an awful stupid poxy machine in any form. More so in EV. Hate them.


    They should start building proper estates again. Or station wagons of you will.

    Volvo are the only ones left making decent looking and we'll sized and specs estates vehicles.

    No one needs an suv. They're crap on all fronts.


    Estates for the win!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    listermint wrote: »
    I'm no greeny. But SUVs are an awful stupid poxy machine in any form. More so in EV. Hate them.


    They should start building proper estates again. Or station wagons of you will.

    Volvo are the only ones left making decent looking and we'll sized and specs estates vehicles.

    No one needs an suv. They're crap on all fronts.


    Estates for the win!!

    But most of them are not SUV, they're Crossovers. And surely People are entitled to choose what they want to drive ?

    Not everyone wants to climb down into a car, a lot of People want a taller car that's more comfortable to get in and out of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭ First Up


    Not sure how to define SUV but I have an all wheel drive hatchback that can handle ice and snow, big enough for two sets of golf gear and to bring back a good supply of wine when I go to France.

    Will I be punished for that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,646 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    There's no real viable alternative to fossil fuels for heating yet because electricity is too expensive, in towns and cities Gas is probably going to be the only solution for many decades yet.

    The focus on cars is insane, there's so many towns in Ireland choking under clouds of smoky coal, briquette and turf smoke even in towns with smoky coal bans. There was absolutely no mention of banning solid fuel burning.

    Wood burning in the Country I wouldn't really have a problem with, I don't burn solid fuels myself, probably will install a pellet stove in the Sitting room soon, I live in the sticks and emissions would be low enough.

    The budget missed the opportunity to introduce a feed-in-tariff so we still can't export to the grid and get paid so we can buy back energy in winter for heating. Still only allowed 5.5 Kw to the grid at least last time I checked.

    Heat pumps remain very expensive, they're getting more efficient and can even replace oil boilers but to upgrade from Oil to Heat pump would take many years to pay off and at that the heat pump might only have a few years left before it needs serious investment in money.

    Forcing People into small cars is not going to happen, a lot of People here have no idea what an SUV is, a Hyundai Kona and Nissan Qashqai for instance are small cars, not SUV. They're crossovers, there's a big difference.

    Next we'll have People calling for electric cars to be no more than 80 HP, they'll say a 200 Hp Kona is far too powerful for Ireland and needs more energy because it's more powerful motor and we shouldn't need such outrageous power for Ireland. :D

    Anyway, a lot of that rubbish about SUV looks like it came from some folk over in the cycling forum here on Boards. :D

    Nail on head.

    Consider this though.

    Electricity isn’t viable to heat homes which are already permanently tethered to the network.

    Electricity is viable to power cars that run on batteries.

    How can this be?

    Oh yes - the tax they add to petrol and diesel for road cars makes electricity more attractive, even though that same electricity isn’t cheap enough to heat homes.

    Solution: Tax natural gas, coal, wood, and any other means of heating a house so high that electricity is the ‘most viable’.

    That’s how this works isn’t it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious


    listermint wrote: »
    I'm no greeny. But SUVs are an awful stupid poxy machine in any form. More so in EV. Hate them.


    They should start building proper estates again. Or station wagons of you will.

    Volvo are the only ones left making decent looking and we'll sized and specs estates vehicles.

    No one needs an suv. They're crap on all fronts.


    Estates for the win!!




    I love a good estate meself and had a few in years gone by. Wouldn't try to deprive someone of a SUV though.

    Stellantis: All the sh1t brands under one roof



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    There's some awful ranty ****e posted on this thread

    Loads of houses are heated efficiently by electricity.

    Electric SUVs do produce more emissions than electric non -SUVs.

    Ireland has legally binding emissions targets, therefore it makes sense to encourage people to choose efficient cars, whatever the power source.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    In laws have he run ins with An Taisce for years, would rather buildings fell down than let you modernise them, membership seems to be retired civil servants with jealousy issres


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    Lumen wrote: »
    There's some awful ranty ****e posted on this thread

    Loads of houses are heated efficiently by electricity.

    Electric SUVs do produce more emissions than electric non -SUVs.

    Ireland has legally binding emissions targets, therefore it makes sense to encourage people to choose efficient cars, whatever the power source.

    Heating the house solely from electricity is very expensive, efficiency doesn't equal affordable, forcing people into buying items that aren't fit for purpose is definately not efficient, EV vehicles are basically second cars, most households who own one have a ICE vehicle as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    First Up wrote: »
    Not sure how to define SUV but I have an all wheel drive hatchback that can handle ice and snow, big enough for two sets of golf gear and to bring back a good supply of wine when I go to France.

    Will I be punished for that?

    The Greens place you somewhere between Fred West and Pol Pot for crimes against humanity, be afraid of idiots in hemp dungarres


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭ zom


    The Greens place you somewhere between Fred West and Pol Pot for crimes against humanity, be afraid of idiots in hemp dungarres
    Talked to few Greens myself and each time I had a weird feeling they are embarrassed by any human activity and existence - like they would be happiest if people extinct completely. And to be clear - I don't have a problem with them having such beliefs, any person could be free to believe whatever they want. I only worry about them ruling other people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭ An Ri rua


    listermint wrote: »
    I'm no greeny. But SUVs are an awful stupid poxy machine in any form. More so in EV. Hate them.


    They should start building proper estates again. Or station wagons of you will.

    Volvo are the only ones left making decent looking and we'll sized and specs estates vehicles.

    No one needs an suv. They're crap on all fronts.


    Estates for the win!!

    That's patently ridiculous.

    One of the most perfect vehicles ever made is a series 1 or 2 Honda CRV or similar. Small engines, ride height, AWD, fold down seats etc etc.
    Or the likes of a Seat Alhambra /Volkswagen Touran. Such seriously practical, useful vehicles. Estates are yesterday.

    Edit: an XC70 or a Subaru Outback being exceptions...


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,591 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    But most of them are not SUV, they're Crossovers. And surely People are entitled to choose what they want to drive ?

    Not everyone wants to climb down into a car, a lot of People want a taller car that's more comfortable to get in and out of.

    As long as they drive one that fits on streets in turns that are several hundred years and old, not an issue in the states


  • Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭ omicron


    Heating the house solely from electricity is very expensive, efficiency doesn't equal affordable, forcing people into buying items that aren't fit for purpose is definately not efficient, EV vehicles are basically second cars, most households who own one have a ICE vehicle as well.

    If a house is well insulated heating it with a heat pump is efficient and affordable. At 0 degrees outside temp with an air to water 1kw of electricity is giving 3 kw of heat, putting it comparable to gas in cost, cheaper above 0 as it gets more efficient.
    You do need underfloor heating or large surface area radiators to make it work though as it becomes less efficient to heat to hotter temps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,591 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Lumen wrote: »
    There's some awful ranty ****e posted on this thread

    Loads of houses are heated efficiently by electricity.
    .

    Please expand a gas boiler is 90+% efficient

    An CCGT is 65%. Which is about 50% of Ireland output

    The COP of a heat pump drops in low temperatures and relies heavily on a good building fabric.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭ markpb


    EV vehicles are basically second cars, most households who own one have a ICE vehicle as well.

    Got any CSO stats to back that up?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,942 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Nail on head.

    Consider this though.

    Electricity isn’t viable to heat homes which are already permanently tethered to the network.

    Electricity is viable to power cars that run on batteries.

    How can this be?

    Oh yes - the tax they add to petrol and diesel for road cars makes electricity more attractive, even though that same electricity isn’t cheap enough to heat homes.

    Solution: Tax natural gas, coal, wood, and any other means of heating a house so high that electricity is the ‘most viable’.

    That’s how this works isn’t it?

    Or we could go back to having some of the cheapest electricity in Europe and no competition to our semi state monopoly, the only reason our electricity is so expensive is because the EU wanted competition in the market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,591 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Or we could go back to having some of the cheapest electricity in Europe and no competition to our semi state monopoly, the only reason our electricity is so expensive is because the EU wanted competition in the market.

    That and we are investing 19bn to accommodate renewables


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    omicron wrote: »
    If a house is well insulated heating it with a heat pump is efficient and affordable. At 0 degrees outside temp with an air to water 1kw of electricity is giving 3 kw of heat, putting it comparable to gas in cost, cheaper above 0 as it gets more efficient.
    You do need underfloor heating or large surface area radiators to make it work though as it becomes less efficient to heat to hotter temps.

    Yeah that's all well and good but the majority of homes are heated with fossil fuels and retrofits are either not practical or too expensive by the time you add insulation and most homes are heated with radiators.

    It's easier to add a HP to a new build but too costly or not practical otherwise.

    HP are becoming more efficient and being able to directly replace oil boilers at the expense of efficiency but cheaper than converting to big storage heaters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,348 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    ted1 wrote: »
    That and we are investing 19bn to accommodate renewables

    Yeah, in other words, out hard earned is for the majority funding big commercial wind energy investors and soon solar PV.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    listermint wrote: »
    I'm no greeny. But SUVs are an awful stupid poxy machine in any form. More so in EV. Hate them.


    They should start building proper estates again. Or station wagons of you will.

    Volvo are the only ones left making decent looking and we'll sized and specs estates vehicles.

    No one needs an suv. They're crap on all fronts.


    Estates for the win!!

    No one, ever, regardless of their profession or hobbies or family make up?
    I suggest thinking before typing.


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