4 adults now sleeping under a bridge after not paying their mortgage

Foxhound38

Read the article there this morning, as it's all over social media.


My initial reaction upon seeing the headline was one of sympathy (I still have some sympathy for them on a human level - it's a crap situation they are now in) but having read and reread the article, unless I'm missing something there were 4 adults living in that house (himself, 2 29 year old sons and one of their girlfriends), and the mortgage was €52,700. Repossession would not have taken place unless no attempt was made to service the debt, which at the amount it's at should have been very managable between 4 people even assuming that they are all on the dole.

Maybe I'm missing something here but what did they think was going to happen? I do really hope they get a roof over their heads but how is this anyone elses fault?

theteal

What's a lifetime mortgage?





Edit - that google thing is handy. Equity release that's paid back upon death (I guess that means the house is sold to pay it????). So were these former occupants paying towards it at all?

amadangomor

Strange. What would a repayment on 52,000 mortgage be? 500/600 per month

Even if all on the dole surely they could get they together between four adults?

BPKS

amadangomor wrote: »

Strange. What would a repayment on 52,000 mortgage be? 500/600 per month

Even if all on the dole surely they could get they together between four adults?

Of course they would but then they would have no money for takeaways, cans and drugs:rolleyes:

Akabusi

You're not missing anything. They have no excuse and don't deserve our pity. This is Ireland not America even if they had made a token effort to pay they would still have a roof over their heads.

cruizer101

theteal wrote: »

What's a lifetime mortgage?

It is a mortgage that only has to be paid off when you die from the proceeds of the estate, frees up money from an asset you have.

So it seems the grandfather took one out on the house he then died in 2015 and the mortgage should then have been paid off from the proceeds of selling the house.
Instead it seems the father and sons stayed on, possibly with some agreement to service the mortgage, can only guess at the full details.

Id does seem strange that 4 adults couldn't service the debt in some way to avoid eviction.
I have some sympathy but it is not a case of a single father and young children as is being implied by some headlines

AlphaDelta1

Very rough situation for them all tbh. Not the place to be with Winter closing in around them. I hope they find something ASAP.

As an aside there is no way is the woman in that picture is 36??? She looks mid 50's to me.

hurikane

Sounds like the father sold the house for x amount and was allowed live there until he died?

Now he has died, the house is being handed over?

Akabusi

Yes, there are four of them of working age there to contribute to the debt payments. Even without work their dole could easily pay it.

gmisk

I had a quick read but tbh
There are a lot of adults there..4?!...none of them working? The mortgage would be tiny.

Something off with this story imo.

B-D-P--

Hold on, Worked in bar until covid, So he got covid payment? Hows that an excuse

doc22

A 52,700 loan in 2007 with vulture type interest rates on equity release would be alot more than 50k in 2020

gmisk

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Hold on, Worked in bar until covid, So he got covid payment? Hows that an excuse

He said he didn't get his last two payments....
But clearly a lot more to this story, they don't just hoof people out of a house if they are attempting to pay the mortgage

893bet

Father was a sick **** clearly.


Who calls their son John when their last name is Johnson.

doc22

gmisk wrote: »

He said he didn't get his last two payments....
But clearly a lot more to this story, they don't just hoof people out of a house if they are attempting to pay the mortgage

It's not their mortgage to pay

banie01

When the article starts out with an address of Assumpta Park, Moyross!
You cant have too much faith in the actual accuracy of the reporting, given Assumpta Park is in Kings Island and nowhere near Moyross!
Still, easier for non-limerick folk to get antsy over Moyross.

Fair play to the father who took out a reverse mortgage in 2007 for 52.7k for a house down there, shows how mental house prices went in the Tiger :pac:

That himself, 3 sons and a GF cant club together and afford to house themselves is quite odd.

Limerick_dude

Address is wrong in the independent article Assumpta Park is not in Moyross and from the Irish Times article the figure is almost double the €52k @ €101,599

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/fund-gets-possession-of-property-under-loan-taken-out-8-years-before-owner-s-death-1.4171568

banie01

doc22 wrote: »

It's not their mortgage to pay

By the same token, its also not their house to live in.

Akabusi

I hope they got to see Claire Byrne last night so that they know how to keep warm when they are drinking their cans.

Gunmonkey

hurikane wrote: »

Sounds like the father sold the house for x amount and was allowed live there until he died?

Now he has died, the house is being handed over?

He died in 2015, and the €53000 bill for the remortgage came due. So either:

A- the financial institution was playing hardball the past few years and demanding it upfront (unlikely, almost all of them know its easier to get some money over time rather than a huge lump sum out of folks), had enough and went for repossession.

or

B- there was a payment system in place....which didnt get paid into for those 5 years.


But there will be no way to discuss this while not blaming "de banks/de guberment" without being branded heartless/no compassion/no sympathy.

Dempo1

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Read the article there this morning, as it's all over social media.


My initial reaction upon seeing the headline was one of sympathy (I still have some sympathy for them on a human level - it's a crap situation they are now in) but having read and reread the article, unless I'm missing something there were 4 adults living in that house (himself, 2 29 year old sons and one of their girlfriends), and the mortgage was €52,700. Repossession would not have taken place unless no attempt was made to service the debt, which at the amount it's at should have been very managable between 4 people even assuming that they are all on the dole.

Maybe I'm missing something here but what did they think was going to happen? I do really hope they get a roof over their heads but how is this anyone elses fault?

Good points however I noticed the actual debt seems to have arisen from the Father's decision to take out a life mortgage (basically borrow on the equity, repaid on death etc).

Yes I do sympathise but find it hard to understand why four adults couldn't pay off what is an astonishingly low mortgage amount, mother of God, even if they were all on basic welfare the monthly payments could have been met on this amount.

More alarming is the fact any home could be permitted to be reposssesd for such a small amount let alone in the middle of a pandemic.

punisher5112

Drink and drugs seems to be higher on their priorities list.....

Padre_Pio

banie01 wrote: »

When the article starts out with an address of Assumpta Park, Moyross!
You cant have too much faith in the actual accuracy of the reporting, given Assumpta Park is in Kings Island and nowhere near Moyross!
Still, easier for non-limerick folk to get antsy over Moyross.

Fair play to the father who took out a reverse mortgage in 2007 for 52.7k for a house down there, shows how mental house prices went in the Tiger :pac:

That himself, 3 sons and a GF cant club together and afford to house themselves is quite odd.

It's strange that 5 people (father, three sons, girlfriend), all of working age can't pay off 10k each over X number of years. There's definitely more to the story than what's being reported. The average cost of rent would be far more than the repayments on that loan.

Cyrus

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Very rough situation for them all tbh. Not the place to be with Winter closing in around them. I hope they find something ASAP.

As an aside there is no way is the woman in that picture is 36??? She looks mid 50's to me.

she is certainly living a hard life if she is 36

OhToBeByTheSea

They would have been given plenty of opportunities to move out voluntarily. The bank didn't just send the bailiffs in without warning to the family. Also, 6 adults sharing a house and none of them are working or claiming any social welfare payment...? 6 adults sharing a house and not one of them has one relative or friend whose couch they could sleep on...? Even someone's floor would be better than a bridge.

Also, the part of the story about the bailiffs covering everything in bleach...:pac: There's no way that happened. Whatever was left in the house, the bank would want it assessed to see if there's anything worth selling to recover some of the debt owed. Out of 6 adults sharing a house, there was surely an assortment of furniture and appliances that could be sold. Even if the stuff in the house was worthless, the bank would still want it properly assessed, after the 6 adults had left, before "dousing" it all in bleach:rolleyes::pac:

In relation to the loan due on the property, the bank would have been happy to set up any sort of repayment schedule with 6 adults of working age. Setting up a repayment schedule of any amount would be better than the alternative, getting nothing from them.

breezy1985

banie01 wrote: »

When the article starts out with an address of Assumpta Park, Moyross!
You cant have too much faith in the actual accuracy of the reporting, given Assumpta Park is in Kings Island and nowhere near Moyross!

This happens all the time and not just with the Island. Ballynanty, Kileely, Thomondgate doesn't matter every working class estate in North Limerick gets called Moyross

retalivity

This story is obviously a lie.



No way is the girlfriend 36 years old.

Man Vs ManUre

Akabusi wrote: »

I hope they got to see Claire Byrne last night so that they know how to keep warm when they are drinking their cans.

That outdoor gear is fairly expensive to buy. Mountaineering is a sport enjoyed mostly by wealthy folk.

banie01

breezy1985 wrote: »

This happens all the time and not just with the Island. Ballynanty, Kileely, Thomondgate doesn't matter every working class estate in North Limerick gets called Moyross

Oh I know, and tbh with some of those areas I can see why there maybe that type of "consolidation".
eg, Ballynanty and Kileely in particular, they aren't Moyross never have been and woe betide ya if someone says they are!
But, they are at least Moyross adjacent, Assumpta Park is in D'Island and a 2 parishes over FFS

Water2626262

Dempo1 wrote: »

Good points however I noticed the actual debt seems to have arisen from the Father's decision to take out a life mortgage (basically borrow on the equity, repaid on death etc).

Yes I do sympathise but find it hard to understand why four adults couldn't pay off what is an astonishingly low mortgage amount, mother of God, even if they were all on basic welfare the monthly payments could have been met on this amount.

More alarming is the fact any home could be permitted to be reposssesd for such a small amount let alone in the middle of a pandemic.

Why pay for anything then. Fairly sure I’d be out on my ear fairly quickly for not paying rent. The person made the decision to take the equity out of the house and it’s clear nothing has been done to sort “the small amount” in five years.

This was on joe Duffy a year or two ago. Middle aged children shocked that it had to be paid back. In those cases a lot of them had benefited from the initial equity release.

osarusan

The original owner and now dead grandfather borrowed 52,700.


While alive, the grandfather did not have to repay it in any way, but the debt exists and interest accrues, and upon his death in 2015, that's the trigger for repayment of the principal and interest. Generally this occurs through sale of the house.

If the remaining family have enough money to pay off the debt, they can do so and keep the house. If not, the house gets sold to pay the debt (most of these mortgages have a no-negative equity clause so that if even if the eventual debt is greater than what the house sells for, it's just the bank's loss).

Seems like the mortgage worked as it was supposed to tbh. Unless the family had no knowledge that the late grandfather had taken the loan in the first place, they'll have known for years that this was coming down the tracks. Even if they didn't know, they'll have known since his death.



As an aside, just compare the IT and Indo articles to see the chasm in quality between the two. The Indo is such a f**king rag.

mloc123

A better headline "Man sold house, son now upset and wants to continue living in it"

jippo nolan

doc22 wrote: »

A 52,700 loan in 2007 with vulture type interest rates on equity release would be alot more than 50k in 2020

With compound interest, more like €130000. !

Cyrus

which is why they are out sleeping under a bridge, its a common ploy to get public support.

Possible scenario is that the father died and the mortgage came due but they didn't qualify for a new mortgage in their own name to pay off the original one and transfer the ownership to the next generation.

There is something missing though for sure if between them they couldn't come up with some or all of the funds.

It looks like from the second article that no repayment was required while the owner was alive, the principle and accrued interest would be repayable from the sale of the house after his death.

Oranage2

The father should have dressed his kids in school uniforms and had them sleep in a Garda station.

banie01

Deleted User wrote: »

It looks like from the second article that no repayment was required while the owner was alive, the principle and accrued interest would be repayable from the sale of the house after his death.

Whomever underwrote the original mortgage and signed off on it was mad!

Even now a house in that area would be unlikely to fetch 40k, signing off on a 52.7k loan, losing that capital and its opportunity cost and having the costs of the repossession added on too...

The lender will be lucky to see anything at all back on their loan, the may get 40k for the house.
The actual financial loss to the lender will be in the region of 150k with lost interest and costs.
Madness

The original loan was in 2007 so boom time rules applied.
I reckon the rate was 5 - 6 %.

That does raise another point - if the debt is higher than the market value, no one would give a mortgage for that and they would be mad to over pay for the house themselves.

Surrender the house to the bank, clear the grandfather's debt, then try and buy it back at a market rate.

whisky_galore

Grown "adults" unable to get their shıt together sob story.

BattleCorp

mloc123 wrote: »

A better headline "Man sold house, son now upset and wants to continue living in it"

And has been living in it since 2015 free of charge.

breezy1985

banie01 wrote: »

Oh I know, and tbh with some of those areas I can see why there maybe that type of "consolidation".
eg, Ballynanty and Kileely in particular, they aren't Moyross never have been and woe betide ya if someone says they are!
But, they are at least Moyross adjacent, Assumpta Park is in D'Island and a 2 parishes over FFS

Balla yes as they are attached but Kileely is as much if not more Mayorstone and Shelbourne Road adjacent but no one ever makes that mistake for some odd reason

gmisk

retalivity wrote: »

This story is obviously a lie.



No way is the girlfriend 36 years old.

I was like ah your being mean...

But...jesus...

Widdensushi

Those poor children

PCeeeee

One lad is wearing shorts. They are in me hole living under a bridge.

seamus

In their defence, the thread title is misleading. There's no way these people could have paid off the loan that the father got. Even assuming a bank would give them a mortgage on the property, it would never cover the €100k bill that was being demanded.

Most likely there was a lot heads simply buried in the sand - "I can't afford it, so what are you going to do?".

Some people just don't have the knowledge to deal with issues like this; or even the knowledge to find someone who does. It suggests some systemic failure; I wonder is the right to free legal aid limited in these cases? Perhaps free legal aid should be universally provided for any dispute? That the court should ensure all parties have legal aid, or if not have expressly refused it.

Any solicitor who spent an hour looking over this would have been able to make it clear that they'd need to find somewhere else to live or they'd be on the streets. They were always going to be evicted, but it never had to come down to sleeping under a bridge. Either they weren't given the support they needed to see that, or they decided to just bull on and hope for the best.

breezy1985

PCeeeee wrote: »

One lad is wearing shorts. They are in me hole living under a bridge.

If they are they picked the wrong one cause under where they are sitting is always full of p**s and s**t and I don't know why anyone with local knowledge of Limerick would pick that spot as it's not even that covered

banie01

breezy1985 wrote: »

If they are they picked the wrong one cause under where they are sitting is always full of p**s and s**t and I don't know why anyone with local knowledge of Limerick would pick that spot as it's not even that covered

You used to be able to get under the bridge by the swivel mechanism but that is well fenced off now.
Used to be a grand spot for mitching if it was raining

punisher5112

Will anyone think of the children.....


They're so young and one couldn't in their right mind expect them kids to be working or contributing to society or anything good.....

Anyone in that area can go down and check on the ppoor mites and maybe tusla should get involved, no child should be sleeping under a bridge, how has this nor made headline news....


I don't know how you all sleep at night.....

Quin_Dub

seamus wrote: »

In their defence, the thread title is misleading. There's no way these people could have paid off the loan that the father got. Even assuming a bank would give them a mortgage on the property, it would never cover the €100k bill that was being demanded.

Most likely there was a lot heads simply buried in the sand - "I can't afford it, so what are you going to do?".

Some people just don't have the knowledge to deal with issues like this; or even the knowledge to find someone who does. It suggests some systemic failure; I wonder is the right to free legal aid limited in these cases? Perhaps free legal aid should be universally provided for any dispute? That the court should ensure all parties have legal aid, or if not have expressly refused it.

Any solicitor who spent an hour looking over this would have been able to make it clear that they'd need to find somewhere else to live or they'd be on the streets. They were always going to be evicted, but it never had to come down to sleeping under a bridge. Either they weren't given the support they needed to see that, or they decided to just bull on and hope for the best.

The lack of knowledge/information is definitely a huge issue in a lot of these cases.

You'd have thought that a simple fix would be to obligate the lending Institutions to ensure that the other side has engaged with someone to assist them - Or at least offered it to them and had an explicit refusal.

The banks etc. should be forced to provide details on Services like MABS etc. and to have asked the customer if they have engaged those services repeatedly throughout the process.

You can't force someone to engage a solicitor or one of the free services , but at the very least you can make sure that no one misses out on their use because they didn't know that they were there.

Spanish Eyes

Where are the myriad of Homeless Charities when you need them eh?

super_furry

Cyrus wrote: »

which is why they are out sleeping under a bridge, its a common ploy to get public support.

There's other benefits too. Legally they get to eat any goats that try to cross it.